Forum Post: Thiefs!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 1:21 p.m. EST by CasualObserver
(7)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I just witnessed one of the protesters steal an apple cider from one of the farm stands set up at the market. There is a farm run a fellow that looks nepalese maybe? A local farm trying to make a buck off the land. A dark haired girl with some purple in her hair and a backpack snatched a juice and disappeared back into the crowd.
Is this what you guys are really about? You had some sympathy from me before I saw this. I eat lunch out there every day and thought that maybe there was something to this - maybe some of you actually cared about making a difference, not just causing more problems. Get your shit together if you expect anyone to listen. You are no better than the people you are protesting, you're just not able to steal as much.
Just got this in an email from our building management, I guess the incident that I witnessed was not isolated:
"Downtown Alliance has recommended that, due to some incidents of pick-pocketing that have been reported, we should avoid walking through the park."
...was she black?
Why doesn't someone go to the southernmost farm stand on the East side of the park and give the guy the $2 or $3 for his juice. Maybe it was one of you, maybe it wasn't. Either way, you help that guy out and maybe change his opinion about you.
What do you expect when people expect a handout
What makes you think she was part of the demonstration? Did she have a sign or t-shirt or something that made it obvious? It's NYC, after all. People steal all the time. Not refuting what you say, just need more info. If indeed she was part of the demonstration, that is completely unacceptable behavior.
agreed
Fair enough - I am not sure. She went into the crowd and I am fairly sure that she was part of the demonstration.
Either way, just be aware that a lot of people that are watching you are on the fence about how they feel. Your behavior may tip people one way or the other.
She had purple hair, that is more than enough to connect her to you loons.
Nit Picking to demonize a group of people and a movement? poor form. It's like saying Capitalists are war mongering, greedy insensitive bastards, and most Republicans are Capitalists, therefore all Republicans are war mongering, greedy, insensitive bastards.
what about the rest of the movement not stealing anything? doesnt count for nothing when you decide you need a reason to go home and not join?
Because judging a whole group based on one person is totally the way to go.
We don't even judge all the rich people by the actions of the few who lied and cheated the way to the top.
Learn to judge the individual by their actions, and the group by their ideas.
By the way did you stop this girl and tell her what she was doing is wrong? If not then you are no better then the government who allowed the corrupt bankers to destroy our economy.
This is exactly the kind of attitude that is going to turn people against you.
No, I did not 'stop her and explain what she was doing wrong'. We stood there with the owner and stared for a minute in disbelief and then she was gone.
Isn't a bit of a stretch to say that because I did not apprehend a girl that stole a juice I am the equivalent of the US government destroying the country??!! Is it not possible for you to grow a set of nuts and just admit when someone is wrong.
There are undoubtedly bad seeds amongst you, as in any group. If you can't stand up and call those people out then you won't get very far.
I give up - you just helped me get off the fence and decide where you guys really stand.
To quote you "You are no better than the people you are protesting, you're just not able to steal as much." I just turned this around on you for not stopping her to show you how ridiculous of at statement that was.
And I never said you are "the equivalent of the US government destroying the country" I said "you are no better then the government who ALLOWED the corrupt bankers to destroy our economy." words taken out of context....
As far as standing up and calling the bad seeds out I covered that with "Learn to judge the individual by their actions"
Moving on how is this attitude going to turn people against us?
You are right, lets go back to your exact wording "you are no better then the government who allowed the corrupt bankers to destroy our economy."
Am I really that bad?? No better than that? Because I didn't apprehend a juice thief? Should I have people protesting me?? Wow - pretty good! I am impressed with myself. With that one action I have achieved infamy!
That is what will turn people against you - empty rhetoric.
Why doesn't someone go to the guy with the southernmost farm stand and give the guy $3 or whatever his juice costs. Act like a adults. I known that you didn't take it personally but don't you think it will make the guy feel better?
You can keep quoting that one line all day out of context.
but my quote side by side with your quote provides context.
CasualObserver: "You are no better than the people you are protesting, you're just not able to steal as much."
revg33k: "By the way did you stop this girl and tell her what she was doing is wrong? If not then you are no better then the government who allowed the corrupt bankers to destroy our economy."
Side by side you can see I was highlighting your comparison to show how absurd it was by turning it back on you.
Just admit that your statement was ignorant. There is no comparison between the two situations, it has nothing to do with context. Why don't you address the actual issue rather than make defensive remarks. What is the fear in condemning a clearly improper act?
By the way I am not just making defensive comments, I have addressed everything you have brought up.
You change the topic, and make wild baseless comments by twisting my words.
I have addressed the condemning of the act twice now I guess I need to address it a third time.
I say again learn to judge the individual by their actions.
So we shouldn't hold any group responsible for the actions of their members?? Ok, got it. Please revise your signs to only list the exact offending individuals that you have a problem with.
You change the topic, and make wild baseless comments by twisting my words.
Just be a man and admit your error
straw man argument, forget all about what we just talked about and call my manhood in to question, top notch debate skills... for the playground
That was not an example of straw man at all.
A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position
"Straw man" is one of the best-named fallacies, because it is memorable and vividly illustrates the nature of the fallacy. Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory. All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched.
Exactly, where did I substitute a distorted version of your opinion? I am clear on your opinion, I just disagree.
Not sure how I got involved in this. at the end of the day your statement was very exaggerated and not helpful to our cause.
I don't think you initially made it clear that it was a side-by-side comparison, either way you should't meet perceived antagonism with antagonism of your own
It was a simple turnabout, used all the time in debate to illustrate flawed reasoning. Next time I will spell it out like I did in my last post.
She obviously needed it more than the farmer. After all, no one gave her a farm to be able to support herself.
I would expect him to he grateful for the opportunity to help her out in her time of need.
Nice ideal, but he needs to eat too. It is possible she could have afforded it, just took it for the sake of taking it. (I made the opposite argument above) I'm just saying that she doesn't reflect us all. Nor should we all condone her act just because she is part of us. NOR should we act as her judge and jury.
Um listen to yourself. "maybe some of you actually cared" A lot of us care. ONE of us stole. There is always a bad egg, doesn't mean her voice shouldn't be heard.
She's "a bad egg" but her voice should still be heard?
OH I see, she's a thief but she agrees with you so she's ok.
Kinda link the lobbyists that you people are not throwing fits about. They agree with Obama, so they are ok...
Um, we ARE throwing fits about them. They are the corporate corruption we keep ranting about. We are pissed at all politicians. We are Dems and Reps. And she stole something. Maybe she is poor and can't eat? Idk her life story, but I'm not about to cut off her hands for it.
By your logic, we should never let ex-felons vote. Or anyone that has ever been caught speeding or doing weed.
She has undesirable traits, doesn't mean we shouldn't hear her voice too.
What does "her life story" have to do with the fact that she stole? She can afford purple hair dye so she could afford to pay ther person for the item she stole, unless she stole the hair dye too, which makes her a habitual offender.
And let's be clear, this movement is NOT dems and republicans... It is greens, socialists and commies. Your "demands" show yourselves to be totally delusional and ignorant.
MY demands are that we make a fair democracy that we can all participate in. Most of the people here agree with me. Some people feel like using this movement to spread their other ideals too, but you only know that because that is only what the news shows. Why not go there and say hello
Um your comment had nothing to do with what you were replying to... stop smoking and typing, you sound pretty stupid.
and by the way, this is not a democracy, it is a republic.
Yes it does, you said "Your 'demands' show yourselves to be". That is what I was replying to. And I know this is a republic. We want not just a republic, but a direct democracy too. We want a decent combination between the two.
Again, your reply made no sense. So, you not only want to destroy the economy of the country, you want to rework the government into something that would never work at all.
I see.
1) You sound like Fox News 2) Who said, implied, proposed, destroying the economy? 3) None of our official demands would destroy the economy. 4) Why would a republic and democracy together not work? 5) Straight republics and straight democracies have failed in the past, and they are failing again, would need to take the pros of both to make a better system. 6) Can you understand lists? I sure hope you can.
Forgiving ALL debt, whether you agree with it or not as a demand, it was shown as a demand of this group.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/
Read it again son, read it again.
Way to ignore the other points. You are not being rational, so good day. I said good day!
Uhmm, ex-felons CANNOT vote!
I know they can't, but they should be able to. They paid their dues supposedly, they should be able to vote.
And, as someone studying law, I can tell you. It doesn't take a crazy person to be a felon.
I understand not having them on juries, but voting is just a natural human right.
It's "thieves," genius. I get your point though---Don't make us look bad!! We, the people support the movement!!
Accidentally put an 's' on the title. I believe that is a more forgivable offense than stealing from a farmer.
Ok, forgiven. But who has really stolen from the farmers of this country?
Come on - really? If that's the logic then you guys are in trouble. Shall we trace everything back to its origin and excuse ourselves of everything?
[Removed]
Wow, promoting violence in a peaceful protest... typical.
The Tea Party would never promote violence.
And who cares about the Tea Party, they are just an extreme version of the Republicans
And they are correct... so lots of people care. They are also not stupid enough to make demands that wil destroy the economy.
What demands have been made that will destroy the economy? And I mean the serious demands. Not the random person off the street. The demands the group as a whole have made will not destroy the economy. You have just been bred to think they will.
Um, the POSTED demands that your group has listed.
Forgiving all debt? Really? do you have any idea what that would do to the World economy, let alone the US Economy? And that is just one example. This is the group you are supporting.
I have not seen the forgiving of all debt as a demand. I have seen the forgiving of all interest before 1/1/12. But not of all debt. And even if that was proposed, we vote internally on whether we really want to demand that. I vote no. You vote no. That is two votes. The only reason you don't like the ideals of the group, are because you haven't joined them and given them YOUR ideals. The 99% is all of us. Unfortunately, those you dislike woke up and spoke up before you did. All you have to do is go down there and show your ideas in a non hateful way.
Whoa, you need to get informed son, he is the list of YOUR demands
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/
That is posted, and it is shown as the demands of the group, which is kinda funny if you don't even know abou them, they are on this website. So, you really seem to be misinformed about the group that you are a member of...
Aside from that, these demands have been posted as coming from the entire group.
They are constantly changing.
But good job ignoring my invitation for real discussions.
You guys need to be willing to take responsibility. You are coming across as a bunch of kids. If you post this in your demands you should mean it. What kind of excuse is "they are constantly changing", so should we not take any of them seriously? Or only the ones that you like? There seems to be no direction - just whining.
Lol, this person has already proven to be against OWS. They are just saying this to make us look bad.
Maybe he went off to think things over....
Or maybe he's stealing some juice....