Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr

Forum Post: They Are Going To Make It Nearly Impossible To Pass On A Farm Or A Business To Your Children

Posted 7 years ago on Nov. 21, 2012, 3:03 p.m. EST by Toby99 (22)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If you have a farm or a small business, would you like to pass it on to your children when you die? Well, unless Congress does something, it is going to become much, much harder to do that starting next year.

article here:




Read the Rules
[-] 6 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 7 years ago

Another campaign to tug at the heartstrings of middle America in order to protect the most wealthy. Small farmers and business won't be hurt by ending the Bush tax cuts. Only "small family farms" like the Gallo vineyards and big agri-business might have to cough up a bit.

Fox News "Death Tax" Hysteria: Part VI

"Then there's the inconvenient little problem that only forty small businesses and/or farms will owe any federal estate tax at all in 2012. You read that right: FORTY. Not forty percent, not forty thousand. Forty. For the whole country, for the whole year. In 2013, if the exemption goes down to $1 million as scheduled, that number skyrockets to.... sixty. Sixty small business and/or family farms across the nation will have to pay some estate tax."

more at: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/16/1162357/-Fox-News-Death-Tax-Hysteria-Part-VI-wait-no-Part-IX-or-is-it-I-ve-lost-count

[-] 6 points by schwartz (20) from Moosic, PA 7 years ago

The government defines a small business as 500 employees or less. If a 'family farm' has more non family employees than family workers, is it really a family farm? If a business has more than ten employees, is it really small?

[-] 0 points by RedDragon (-161) 7 years ago

I'm not sure how to interpret this. Because their estimates on typical family farm value are extremely low. And where I am we would like to see these small farms preserved. It has to do with such things as the rural viewscape, nature's ambiance, and a sentimentalism born of our ancestry.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 7 years ago

Keep in mind that the stated threshold amounts are for the taxable estates, meaning the value after all available deductions are used. A farm or small business worth only a million dollars would be far from being subject to the estate tax. In addition to the deductions available for all estates, farms and small businesses are given special valuation rules and exemptions and taxes may be paid over many years (in those few cases where any tax is due).


I want to see family farms preserved as well. I'm from a small Idaho town myself. All of my aunts and uncles are farmers or ranchers and my daddy was a beekeeper. It is precisely because so many of us value this heritage, that the estate tax is such an effective tool to manipulate people. The greedy ultra wealthy have spent a lot of money to put ordinary people in (unfounded) fear of estate taxes and it really pisses me off. See e.g. http://www.faireconomy.org/files/pdf/millions_billions.pdf

[-] -1 points by RedDragon (-161) 7 years ago

Hmm... farms here have gotten smaller; the average is probably in the 400 acre range. But our real estate values are rather high; a 400 acre farm would very conservatively be ten mil or more. So I am wondering how this would effect these families.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 7 years ago

Wow, must be nice farmland at those prices.

It's hard to say because its fairly complicated. but here's a sampling of deductions available to farm estates. Farms are not valued at fair market value for estate tax purposes though, so your ten million dollar farm, wouldn't be valued that high. http://www.hoosieragtoday.com/index.php/2012/06/04/estate-planning-for-family-farms-and-ranches/

In any event, if the objective is to protect all family farms from estate taxation, the way to do that is through legislation specifically aimed at family farms, rather than keeping the 5 million taxable estate exemption in effect for all estates. The greedy advocate keeping those huge exemptions in effect for everyone - or eliminating them entirely - and attempt to pass it off at protection for the small family business.

[-] 1 points by RedDragon (-161) 7 years ago

No, I disagree with this. If the intent is to protect small family farms, and it should be, than those provisions should be included in the present legislation; if it is not then it is because there is no intent; what I would suspect is just the opposite - an intent to break up larger family land holdings. And as radical as Obama's past statements reveal him to be, this is exactly what the small farmers would expect.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

"economiccollapseblog"? Wow. I guess it's all over then. May as well hoard the guns & canned food.

I think the estate tax MUST be increased because when wealth get's too concentrated at the top we all suffer. But it only effects the very wealthy anyway.

Don't be afraid.

[-] -2 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

The estate tax penalized people who actually keep their money here and pay taxes. Do you really think the 1% get taxed for passing on anything to their kids? Fuck no, it will go through channels to make it look like a business transaction, add on some loopholes to the tax paperwork, viola, tax free inheritance. Estate taxes only penalizes successful Americans who actually live in this country. The 1% live globally and do not pay estate or inheritance taxes. Your youthful wisdom is shining brighter and brighter.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 7 years ago

Not only is most of the estate tax paid by the 1%, most of it is paid by the 0.1 % (one-tenth of one percent). http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/estatetax.cfm

US taxes on wealth inheritance are lower than most other countries. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2655

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Well done. nothin like facts to combat 1% lies.

Happy thanksgiving

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago
  1. The Dirty Little Secret of Estate Tax Reform

  2. Time Running Out on Gift Tax Exemption

  3. Estate-Tax Changes Would Affect More Than the Super-Rich

I'm so sick of people posing as liberals and spreading bullshit. If you're a liar and/or spin artist, then you are no liberal, no dem, no friend of mine. Hacks have no party. They are not capable of critical, independent, or intelligent thinking, all of which are the foundation of liberalism.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Nasty, angry, personal attacks.!

Can't handle difference of opinions?

Stop advocating against tax increases for the 1%.

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

Middle class is now the 1%? Stop covering your spin in populist propaganda.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

No. Middle class is the 99%. I suppose your apparent confusion on this basic concept explains your posture.

OWS supports the middle class, working class, poor (99%). We welcome any wealthy 1%'rs who support higher taxes on the 1% and economic fairness for all.

Your position that raising the estate tax doesn't hit the1%, is a fallacy designed to discourage raising that estate tax on the wealthy 1%.


[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

Check the polls, 99%, progressive talking points, cons eat poop!


[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Now you're not even completing sentences! Are you stroking?

If not please make sense!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

Progressive talking points, 99%, support Obama like he is yo moma, check the polls!


[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Who mentioned Pres Obama? Only you!. Regarding the President.

Protest for tax increases on the wealthy, do not touch SS, Medicare, Jobs programs, Greentech, end the drone strikes.

Thats what I say if you say Pres Obama.

You're still not making sense.

[-] 0 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 7 years ago

Whatever, dude.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Please. There are plenty of 1% who live right here and are affected by the estate tax. That is why they are squealin like stuck pigs to stop the increase.

And that is also why they (and their advocates) also try to mislead people into thinking it won't hurt the 1% and instead try to convince us it would hurt regular middle class small business owners. It won't! Those are lies!

In addition their advocates also resort to unrelated distractions of personal attacks ("youthful wisdom"?) because they can't debate the issue honestly in a civil way.

Truth: The vast majority of small business owners ain't affected!

Stop trying to protect the 1% from paying their fair share!

The loopholes and other 1% schemes you allude to must be repealed as well of course.

Getting our money back! That is something we should be thankful for.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Really? I expect all politicians to listen to the people! I expect the people to force change that benefits the 99%.

I don't whine & blame one politician for all problems. Time you got off your fat, lazy, suburban, self entitled, expectant ass and did something for yourself.

Instead of "expecting politicians to do everything for you"

Besides you don't complain about any politician but one. (clearly partisan). So you don't even do the basic work of figuring out which pols to pressure. It's easy to bash one pol over thehead and pretend your doing something.

The difficult work is being a little more sophisticated identifying the MANY pols standing in the way of change that benefits the 99%.

ALL pols. Including but Not only the Pres. The difficult work is getting into the street and fighting for the change we need.

Lazy, suburban, expectant, nasty, offensive partisan.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

lol, I work for a living and have for over 20 years, douchebag . Take your self righteous college kid bullshit to your parents and complain to them that the real world works nothing like they taught you. You have nothing to offer but scripted horse shit.

99%, cons eat poop, check the polls.


[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Oh, And I put in my 25 years before I left the 9 to 5 rat race. Now I work for myself (for 8 years) so you ain't got nothin on me young man.


[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

You Nasty personal attacks ("douchebag"?) show you for what you are. Fearful of honest accurate challenge to your simplistic partisan attacks.

There is more to forcing change that benefits the 99% than attacking one politician.

Get off your ass! read beyond the anti Obama partisanship and fight for the 99%.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

You still don't get it. I'm not anti-anything except for War and Violence. I am pro-me. Pro-my-family. Pro-my-neighbor. The point you refuse to take up and the point you attempt to spin out of when you get called on it is that none of us give two shits about your politicians, your political labels, your party line talking points, your party agenda. None of it means a goddamn thing to actual people. This is why you and yours stick out on this forum like a sore thumb, even after you tactically removed or had removed all of your political opposition. You have no moral high-ground for using my attitude toward you for sympathy because you are a known party hack. No matter how many socks, how many cohorts, you all stick out all the time because the Party Agenda and the interest of The People are AT ODDS and all you do when you submit to this forum is re-confirm and re-confirm and re-confirm.

PS, if I were you, I wouldn't own up to being so incapable of independent thinking at such a ripe age.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

But you mentioned Pres Obama and party politics. Not me!

So I think you protest too much! You are clearly obsessed with one particular politician. I'm sticking to the issues as long as you guys don't bring up party politics.

YOU are the one pre occupied with Pres Obama. My interest in Pres Obama ends after I state we must protest against his poor policy choices, and we must agitate all pols for the change that benefits the 99%.

You just beat him up. And your done. Simpleton.?

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

99%, progressive talking points, cons eat poop, check the polls.


[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

"the world is gonna end, hoard canned food, & ammo" "Obama did it!" "be afraid" "economiccollapseblog" "don't raise the estate tax" "the Fed is destroying the economy" "Obama did it" "hidden inflation" "Obama did it" "i'm afraid"

"Obama, Obummer, Obombya, Omoma,"

"please mommy build a wall"


[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

Woooooe Nelly. You cling on to your "Government Can Solve Everything" line of horse shit and you're using the line "please mommy build a wall" as a pun? You better go check the mirror and stop projecting onto me. Instead of figuring out how to keep the 1% from siphoning off the capital earned by the working class, you concern yourself with how to simply redirect it str8 into the hand of politicians. You are just as interested in stealing from me as the 1%, you just have other ideas about how to use the extorted gains. Like I said, college kid, take that shit to the trash where it belongs.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

You're a scared paranoid little child, certainly in mind.

I know WE must force change that benefits the 99%. I certainly wanna siphon you're money back to the 99% since you do appear to be a 1%'r (or at least their advocate ("don't raise the estate tax")

"the world is gonna end, hoard canned food, & ammo" "Obama did it!" "be afraid" "economiccollapseblog" "don't raise the estate tax" "the Fed is destroying the economy" "Obama did it" "hidden inflation" "Obama did it" "i'm afraid"

"Obama, Obummer, Obombya, Omoma,"

"please mommy build a wall"


[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

Your tactical use of social pressure is typical of youth and the otherwise unthinking. Here is the flow of money, structured by both parties as to not look like collusion against the people but in reality is exactly that.

working class < 1%

working class < government

working class < 1% < government

As you can see, the working class is taxed with supporting the 1% and the government. In fact, everyone that doesn't work for a living, relies on the working class for their profits, products, services. If you aren't working class, you don't produce, if you don't produce then you aren't contributing to society. Occupy is here to address the extortion of the people that make the world-go-round, the working class. I don't give a shit if you are a 1%er or mashed potato, if you are excusing the extortion in any fashion, you are not in support of the working class. There is nothing but the working class and those who take from the working class, regardless of what face it happens to be wearing that day.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

You are a few cards short of a full deck.

Do you really think you can type a few directionals and explain the premise of OWS. LOL

Do you support raising the estate tax?

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

Those were all talking points lol. MAN you are full of sh!t. PROPOSED LEGISLATION. what proposed legislation do you support that will put more money in the hands of the working class. Renewing the tax cut for everyone is not MORE, it's maintaining, and it's chump change compare to real and substantive repairs to the income inequality issue.

The truth is, it's a trick question anyway because there is no proposed legislation that addresses income inequality or the systematic siphoning of working class earnings that is taking place right now. The "progressives" and "liberals" and the "dems" are all doing exactly what you're doing. In fact it's also what the right just tried over the last 30 years and is now ending very badly.

You are attempting to supplant the interests of the government and politicians for our own self interest. Drawing false parallels between what benefits politicians and what benefits The People. Attempting to make people believe that helping the government is the same as helping ourselves.

The 1% should damn well be stuck with the bill because they are the reason for the debt to begin with. That is the obvious and necessary thing to do, but it is not a solution to anything other than the debt they ran up. It has jack shit to do with the working class. That fight is between the government and the 1%.

Anyone who cannot see that the issue you present is not connected in any way to the progress of the working class is a fool or a liar or both.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Blah, blah, blah! You have lotsa criticizm for the left. I ain't interested.

happy thanksgiving

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

Right, no answer. As I expected. More spinning and cycling. Well, keep practicing your stick and move debate tactics. You certainly need something to offset your lack of substance.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I absolutely answered you. You just can't handle the truth.

Get in the street and protest for change that benefits the 99%.

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

PS, stop selling me your tax agenda, it doesn't put money in my pocket.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago


[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

What proposed legislation do you support that would keep more money in the hands of the working class but that does not involve any money going to anything or anyone else, something that only benefits the working class. Not a tax issue, not just making noise. Only the working class.

Don't even say a wage increase because the prices will rise ahead of the compliance dates for the new wages, making it a zer0 net gain. Something with teeth.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

What is that a riddle?

Are you suggesting legislation because you believe we can only resolve our problems through the govt. Because you did just criticize ME for that.

So raising wages is out of the question for you? If we raise wages prices will automatically go up? And that is your good reason NOT to raise wages?

Sounds pretty ridiculous. I disagree! Absolutely raise wages. Absolutely soak the rich! Absolutely cut taxes for the working class! Absolutely cut debt on the working class!

Absolutely. There are plenty more. But I do not take credit for them. They ain't Victor ideas. They are progressive ideas. You wanna ridicule "progressive talking points" again.?

That pretty much sums up where you areat. Anti progressive right?

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (2450) from Fredericksburg, TX 7 years ago

"Let us recollect the situation of France seven hundred years ago, when the territory was divided amongst a small number of families, who were the owners of the soil and the rulers of the inhabitants; the right of governing descended with the family inheritance from generation to generation; force was the only means by which man could act on man, and landed property was the sole source of power. Soon, however, the political power of the clergy was founded, and began to exert itself: the clergy opened its ranks to all classes, to the poor and the rich, the villein and the lord; equality penetrated into the Government through the Church, and the being who as a serf must have vegetated in perpetual bondage took his place as a priest in the midst of nobles, and not infrequently above the heads of kings."


"When the legislator has regulated the law of inheritance, he may rest from his labor. The machine once put in motion will go on for ages, and advance, as if self-guided, towards a given point. When framed in a particular manner, this law unites, draws together, and vests property and power in a few hands: its tendency is clearly aristocratic. On opposite principles its action is still more rapid; it divides, distributes, and disperses both property and power. Alarmed by the rapidity of its progress, those who despair of arresting its motion endeavor to obstruct it by difficulties and impediments; they vainly seek to counteract its effect by contrary efforts; but it gradually reduces or destroys every obstacle, until by its incessant activity the bulwarks of the influence of wealth are ground down to the fine and shifting sand which is the basis of democracy."

Democracy In America, Volume 1; 1835 by Alexis de Toqueville

[-] 0 points by RedDragon (-161) 7 years ago

The Dems had stated months ago that they would take care of this before the end of the year; talk about a do nothing Congress huh?