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Forum Post: The widening GAP between rich and poor is directly attributed to unfettered free markets.

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 26, 2011, 10:15 a.m. EST by FriendlyObserverA (610)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

To place a sales profit CAP on the markets would equalize the distribution of wealth, plus benefit the economy with job creation and lower the debt.

20 Comments

20 Comments


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[-] 2 points by demcapitalist (977) 12 years ago

Do you really think this is a free market? Not even close. We got rid of Glass/Steagall and loosened up other laws regarding derivatives so that banks with access to the fed window could loan money to other banks and hedge funds to gamble with. When their bets went bad the got the fed to print up 7 trillion dollars to make them solvent. Goldman and Morgan Stanley in the guise of stabilizing the banking system wormed their way into access to the fed window. I'm not a Paulian by any means but I sure don't call this a free market. In a free market wall street banks would have to loan money to each other and keep their grimy paws out of America's banking system. It's an unfettered kleptocracy maybe , but not a free market.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 12 years ago

TROLL

Either that or OCD. This is at least the fifth time FriendlyObserver has posted the same absurd idea. Every time it gets debunked he starts a new thread ...

[-] 1 points by kingscrosssection (314) 12 years ago

How do you do that?

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 12 years ago

I use The Force.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

[-] 1 points by kingscrosssection (314) 12 years ago

This isn't or these aren't. Proper English please. Thanks for the help I'll go look somewhere else.

[-] 1 points by looselyhuman (3117) 12 years ago

_Mag_ic

[-] 1 points by arndtmf (0) 12 years ago

I'm an older guy who supports OWS. I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out, but CCR's song "Fortunate Son" has some of the same messages as OWS. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbNnvPBokNs&feature=related

[-] 1 points by WeMustStandTogether (106) from Newark, NJ 12 years ago

Yes, and this behavior isn't sustainable thus an unfettered nonviolent global revolt to reallocate precious resources to better stewards than cronies prove to be.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

uhm no. "free markets" is a misnomer. The best market system is surely a "free" market system, but that depends on how you define "free." the current system is a caste slave wage market system, designed in every detail to be a rigged casino in order to prop up the ruling elites who do next to nothing, and keep the 99 percent in comparative poverty.

Just capping something is a control freak gesture, a non solution, and does not address the fundamental inequalities and problems of the system.

Your non solution is too simple by 4 orders of magnitude.

A real solution would be pages and pages and pages long, and address many different direct sub problems.

Enough lunatic advice from the ignorant. Stop being a part of the problem and join an effort to do research and real problem solving process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA

I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
  8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
  9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
  10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
  11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

[-] 0 points by JohnWatson (250) from Nürnberg, BY 12 years ago

The problem is if we lower the total indebtedness money vanishes out of the economy. To understand this please follow the link:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

at 13 trillion , and interest rates of 400 billion .. lowering the debt would be useful if not to reduce interest payments..

[-] 1 points by JohnWatson (250) from Nürnberg, BY 12 years ago

Sure you will lower interest payments but you will also kill the economy. That's what the theory of debitism says.

This is the reason why our current system regularly comes into a crisis and then to a destruction of wealth and then it all starts from the beginning.

So the best thing would be establishing a new system before the next big crash comes. And the right time is now as there is a global awareness that something is going totally wrong.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

I agree

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 12 years ago

What I see is wealthy people jacking the prices of basic utilities and food every time minimum wage goes up to the point people are left with less than before their "raise". And they make statements about how much bigger their profits are and their stock goes up, and the people have less buying power. Plenty of capitalist countries control these industries without being labeled as communists. Bust up Monopolies and virtual Monopolies and cap them and regulate them and if that is too hard, outright take it over and hand it to the government, all of it.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

Why is it that so few people would agree?

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 12 years ago

Propaganda. We have a propaganda machine that Hitler would envy. A lot of the people are too young to remember how cheap it was to go to the emergency room and get a few stitches. $25 doctor appoints if that was too steep. Its never cheaper to make billions in profit than it is to do it for no profit. Judges don't get kickbacks to lock people and kids up to fill beds. I don't even have to be able to add two plus two to figure it out. I'm really happy about OWS, people who have more than one brain cell left can find each other! :)

[-] 1 points by WeMustStandTogether (106) from Newark, NJ 12 years ago

I think this ows forum will grow a community that's constructive. We are all ready to fix it, just all the contraversy is over how. Peace.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 12 years ago

Me too! Its great that people are talking about it. I've learned not to watch CNN and think I'm learning much except for hints as to how I should invest money I don't have. Having a place to talk and challenge each other is a good thing. Hopefully we will all learn something from each other.

[-] -1 points by jaimes (86) 12 years ago

A free market economy is the only way to go.

[-] 1 points by WeMustStandTogether (106) from Newark, NJ 12 years ago

Yes, with the market trading exchanges all public.