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Forum Post: The white left and the election

Posted 7 years ago on Oct. 23, 2012, 5:26 p.m. EST by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I fear the many pro Occupy people can rightly be called "white leftists" meaning not that they are white but that their leftism ignores black oppression and is in fact "white." For example this post got shadow banned pretty fast. http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-the-latest-nbc-poll-romney-got-zero-percent-of-/ Why are zero percent of black people saying they'll vote for Romney? Even McCain got four percent of the Black vote. It's because Black voters see this election as a life and death matter, no joke! White "leftists" (meaning adherents of the white left, some may not be white themselves) ignore the fact that you now have a member of a racist cult (a mormon) running a down and dirty lying racist dog whistle campaign against the first Black president of the united states. At issue is the little that's left of the social safety net and voting rights, and gay rights, and women's rights. Importantly at issue is really whether Blacks are really Americans. The seriousness of this situation just doesn't penetrate the skull of the head up his ass "white leftist.

163 Comments

163 Comments


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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

You touch on the deep and unspoken fault line in American Politics. Thanx for your powerful post and points, further to which I append :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

This website's view on the elections is opposed to the view espoused here. They do have many important things to say and I think they have an important voice, however I still maintain that the best thing a progressive can do on November Sixth is to vote against the racist far right and so I will hold my nose, bring a barf bag to the poll and vote against Romney - ie. for Obama..

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

In a nut shell, absolutely definitely - voting Obomber ain't no panacea or solution to anything at all but for anyone remotely left / liberal / progressive living In A Swing State - who wants to vote for POTUS in two weeks time - wtf is the option ? It's like talking loudly about wiping one's ass after a trip to the loo at a dinner party - NOT a nice subject for conversation but what was the option but to have done so ?!

Ohbummer !! That's the sad, honest truth as I see it & The Real Struggle comes After November 6th !!!

Also please consider :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 7 years ago

Wow, that second article, "President Jill Stein ?", is powerful. She definitely has a platform I'd love to see implemented.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I think Carl Gibson gets it wrong. These 90 million non voters- in what way do they manifest their dissatisfaction? By not voting? Well, then they support OWS actively right? NO!? Okay they think OWS is not on the mark. You find these 90 millions in the Democratic Socialists of America? Nope. Communist Party? Nope. Workers World? Nah, never heard of that one...

Maybe in fact they are quite satisfied and don't think it matters enough to stir their behinds to do any single damned thing.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Re. "satisfied" - really ? Or are they too apathetic OR have they come to the conclusion that it's a faux choice and that 'who ever gets in - 'The Government' always gets in' ?!

Can't help using the Alice Walker quote here : "The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any."

As a real thought exercise for the future, how about a 'Huge Voter Turnout' and also agitating for mass 'write-ins' for Stein, Sanders, Nader, McKinney, Kucinich, Johnson, Anderson etc ?! People need hope and to to think 'out of the box' of 'The DemoCrap / RepubliCon Faux-Binary Construct'.

The Entire voting system in the U$A has been co-opted and The 99% must reclaim it - with 'Manually Counted Paper Ballots' being the bare minimum safeguard against demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy in "The United States of Amnesia" (Gore Vidal, RIP) ! Duopolistic 'Electoralism' (you won't find that in a dictionary but you'll get what I mean) is broken & voting is only one avenue of change as it is only one aspect or tactic to affect real change by a Mass 99% Movement from below.

The real goal is NOT merely just to change the structure of government -- it is to fundamentally reclaim "The Lincolnian Definition' of "Government OF The People ; FOR the People ; BY The People" and to restore the demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy that The U$A has become. The US 99% deserve no less. The US 99% struggle really starts properly after this coming November's POTUS (S)Election. 2016 is the real target for The 99% Mass Movement. Also please consider :

"Behind the divisiveness lies a deeper bipartisan consensus in which donors own democracy and there are no votes in reform", from the maker of the essential doc. 'Inside Job' ( http://vimeo.com/24981578 ).

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Well, listen if they are so hot under the collar these 90 million apathetic ones, wouldn't it shake the world if only one half of one percent of them got busy in OWS? Or DSA? or CPUSA? or WWP? Could it be that their beer, their wife beating, their video games, their TV, their marijuana, etc. make life seem pretty okay to them?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Cheer up & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNfAuMq-M0 !!

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

And what else would you recommend we do to improve the lives of the poor in America?

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Starting with beating Romney. Very important but no solution. I'm not sure who you mean by "we".

Union organizing very difficult very dangerous and very much necessary. I'm not the one to tell anyone how this gets done in today's climate but a Romney win will make it worse, that's one thing I'm fairly certain of.

Expose police brutality and misconduct - especially their actions of an every day ho hum what else is new nature like stop and frisk, planting fake evidence, shooting black and other non white people usually in the back. I long for these days actually but it never got the traction it needed:

http://tinyurl.com/8o7xqyj

Vote in radical progressive candidates whenever possible. I think that for example a campaign for Charles Baron for mayor of NYC would be a fine thing.

Vote against right wing candidates when they are actually in a position to win.

Get a radical third party that recognizes the centrality of the issue of oppression of minorities particularly (but not only) African American people. This party would oppose at every turn PTB interventions in targeted resource rich or strategic countries like Libya, Syria, Russia. It would campaign to end the drug war, most certainly to legalize marijuana across the board. Oppose the imprisonment and criminalization of another generation of oppressed minority youths both at the ballot and with direct actions and demonstrations.

Just some ideas. Surely this just scratches the surface. What say you?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 7 years ago

Regarding your comment about Union organizing, we need a Nation Labor Union that anyone who is working can sign up for. Part of the problem with Organized Labor in this country is that it is too dispersed and specific to a given company or companies, and this gives Corporate America a huge advantage in combating Union organizing at the local level. But if people could join a National Union of Laborers (sort of like a Labor Party, except without the political baggage) that would support and negotiate labor contracts, working conditions, pay, etc. for them anywhere in the 50 US States, Labor would become a LOT more powerful and would be on its way to restoring itself to its peak in the 1950s. Imagine being able to go on-line and join anywhere, anytime regardless of where you lived and worked, and being able to be represented by a national organization like that. Just imagine.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I know that the current model does not seem to work. I hope and expect that honest union activists and organizers are giving much thought and study to alternative approaches including the one you propose here.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I agree. Besides the voting (which I agree) statements I also agree and add:

protesting police misconduct HUGE anti minority problem. War on drugs - major war on minorities (coincidentally begun just as civil/voting rights implemented)

I support unions but I would say we should investigate the racism in accepting members and distributing work. Protests

I would also look at how city (union) jobs seem to frequently go to white suburbanites. Protests

I would review all cities work distribution because when they send the jobs to the suburbs, city minorities lose out. Protests.

Education in the city for the poor. Finally must be fixed. This must be the highest priority. I can't say the exact solution but whatever it is we must protest for it. daycare, job training for parents, extra pay/no taxes for teaches working in poor neighborhoods, corp partnership. whatever.

As an extension of that, college (Pell grants to cover all city/state tuition) must be assured, with real job placement. Protest.

Low cost loans for 1st home mtg for all working class who came up poor.

We can improve the lives of the poor with these efforts and others.

It is up to us. We must be active. Protest! We can't expect our politicians to do everything for us. We must force them to!

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

What do you say to my call for a non interventionist party? Like as in "hands off Libya, Syria, Russia, Iran Venezuela, etc.?" "We" are saddled with a tremendous debt left by the last two major interventions which still continue btw. I'd repudiate that debt entirely also.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I like the idea of repudiating the debt. Seems to me it is only electronic (not real?) much is owed to banks that hold bonds, so they can take a haircut.

As far as interventions, I am against the Iraq/Afghan type illegal resource wars.

I do support some support (even military) for the innocent people of the world struggling under corrupt brutal dictators.

Since we have been involved with so many puppet dictators and much of the misery people suffer under, I think we have a responsibility to correct and improve the lives of those we have hurt.

Certainly with regional, international organizations sharing costs & burdens something could be done.

So I can't say I am totally against military use, because I believe despite our utter failure in the past, we can and should do the right thing in the future.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

You and I are still miles apart if you support any US intervention in other countries and in my opinion your advocacy amounts to endless war and unpayable debt. I urge people of Venezuela, Iran, Russia and other target countries to note that there is no viable legitmate opposition today to more attacks by the USA.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

What about the innocent people struggling under brutal dictators?

No help for them?

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

With help like "we" deliver no one needs any enemies. Look at the mess in Syria and Libya and in Iraq where there still is a slow motion civil war with car bombs, communal violence, sabotage. They used to have electricity 24/ 7. No more- and it's damned hot there not to have even a fan. Before "we" :helped" them they didn't have to suffer these things. . Talk about innocent people being killed. These places were at least places where people knew what the rules were and if they followed them they were pretty okay. Now it's car bombs, lynchings, rapes, bombings, just like it still is in Iraq, which will need a century to recover from the "help" "we" brought to them. Christians killed in Syria: http://tinyurl.com/czqbzt3

Blacks lynched in Libya:

http://tinyurl.com/943kuul

Jihadists Controlled Benghazi on 9/11 & Now Wander Around Benghazi Unchecked October 19, 2012 By Sara Noble

http://www.independentsentinel.com/2012/10/jihadists-controlled-benghazi-we-were-the-last-flag-standing/

Like I said with this kind of help, well, who needs problems?

(edit) PS- The MSM always called Chavez a "dictator". Do you think maybe just perhaps this is preparation for an attack??? What would you say about that?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I would the right wing wackos tried the cou against Chavez in 2002 I think and he won. The right wing fear mongers still pressure for a coup there and an invasion of Iran. But thankfully Pres Obama has thus far successfully resisted.

Iraq,? Right wing war mongers.

Libya.? That was European and the worst is over. I don't see your problem. Jihadists in an Arab country. Heavans. Who woulda thunk it. I don't we are responsible for that. I thnk we are staying out of Libya to avoid what the right wing did in Iraq.

Syria? We ain't in Syria. Your gonna blame us for that too? Gimme a break. I think Assad is responsible for the slaughter in Syria.

So no I ain't talkin about the kinda "help" you listed. I'm talkin about "good" help. Not bad help.

So what about the millions of innocent people struggling under brutal dictators?

No good help for them.?

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

"Our" proxies are in Syria - delivering armaments, money etc. Jihadis in an Arab land? Well, Assad and Khadaffi had them in check and the majority of normal people could go about their lives in peace and not in fear of being murdered, raped for being a Christian or a Druse or a Shia or dark skinned, or for that matter a Suni. Now that's all gone and the wreck our "help" made of Iraq and Libya is coming to Syria.

Free to Be You and Me]

[Performed by Tom Smothers]

Agatha Fry, she made a pie And Christopher John helped bake it Christopher John, he mowed the lawn And Agatha Fry helped rake it

/ G - / - D7 / - - / - G /

Now, Zachary Zugg took out the rug And Jennifer Joy helped shake it Then Jennifer Joy, she made a toy And Zachary Zugg helped break it

And some kind of help is the kind of help That helping's all about And some kind of help is the kind of help We all can do without

/ CG CG / G7 C / - GEm / AmD G /

(edit) PS maybe "we" need the help, real help:

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/election-monitors-free-countries-headed-us-election-day/story?id=17555988

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Ah yes the good old days of Khadaffy, Saddam,Mubarek, and Assad.

They are the good guys?

Gimme a break! They were the brutal dictator puppets of the US and Russia.

There time of going was long overdue.

It will be messy, bloody, and many will die. But in the end the people will exert their authority and create the moderate, democrdatic govt that we have prevented.

Sorry. It's the only way, and the dictators have to go.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

You don't even realize you're praising the neocon war agenda.

7 countries. Story broke by General Wesley Clark. You're listing the countries and you can't even put 2 and 2 together. .

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I disagree.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Compared to today's situations in Syria, Libya and iraq the old days indeed were the good old days for most people in those countries. I don't know if you are willfully ignorant or just not bright.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I recall thousands of Libyan moderates marching in support of US policy& our murdered diplomats. They might know better than you.

And whether it better then or noe is not relevant! THEN was horrible, brutal and unacceptable. NOW is transition. Understand? Whatevr is happening now will end.

The extremists are creating much misery, bloodspill, & death because they want these countries to become Islamist theocracies. The people will benefit only under a moderate democracy.

So all should support the moderate democracy and persevere through this most difficult time of transition.

We can't go back! Forward!

Peace

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22990) 7 years ago

Harsh truths there, but I get what you are saying. I think a lot of people think that Obama's presidency was the end of the issue of race in this country, but in reality is has shined a light on how far from the truth that is.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 7 years ago

Amen to that!

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Yes. This is the most Brain Washed Right Wing I've ever seen. I think it took root as soon as Obama was Elected. The Fear and Propaganda has reached new Heights. I don't see why the Media doesn't report on this Fact. Before the Internet things could have been just as charged. BUT NOW...there is plenty of evidence to see the "Dumbing Down" of America. We live in a Propaganda State and in 11 years since 9-11, all of the Media Flaws are clearly apparent.

Looks like to me that he Press can't talk about:

1) Muslim Caliphate Idea
2) Muslim Brotherhood History as described by Robert Baer
3) Gun Runners and Weapons Dealers in Africa
4) How the US created the Mushahedin in Pakistan and Afghanistan which looks like roots of Al Queda and Osama bin Laddin
5) How US Foreign Policy hasn't changed since WWII when it Created the CIA, gave broad missions to the CIA, and which has gotten us into all our undeclared wars since.
6) How the US meddles in foreign elections and engages in Warfare 1000s of mile from its boarders with weak countries that can never hurt the US.
7) Now we have a War monger Black President
8) Running against a War Monger White Mormon who has a man crush on Israeli NeoCons.

Reading a few posts.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I'm talking here about so called left wingers, whose view of things is decidedly white and based on the proposition "I'm alright so I want to make statement of their supposed to the wind because who the fuck really cares? " They are in fact united with the worse fascist scum out there.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 7 years ago

"Importantly at issue is really whether Blacks are really Americans."

If it were so, it wouldn't be an issue. The inherent racism of the country always makes it an issue.

It's a shame that the only reason for voting Democrat isn't for what the Democrats will actually do for the people but is only for preventing what the Republicans will do against the people.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

"If it were so, it wouldn't be an issue. The inherent racism of the country always makes it an issue."

Yes and progressives must always stand up and defend the civil and human rights of black people in the US that are supposedly reflected in the constitution and various laws. What is going on now is that those who at heart oppose the black people as a group are mobilized like never before because they see that this could very well be the last election in which they could carry into the White House almost solely on the backs of "angry white guys." This is the time to kick them in the teeth, then the groin and leave them writhing so to speak, on the political and cultural ground.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 7 years ago

I like how you think.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Thanks. I don't understand how this logic escapes supposed revolutionaries. Maybe some of them are indeed GOP operatives?

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Thanks. I don't understand how this logic escapes supposed revolutionaries. Maybe some of them are indeed GOP operatives?

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

To continue with hchc: He says "[-] 2 points by hchc (3325) from Tampa, FL 22 hours ago Have fun following the sheep off the cliff... Its too bad you clowns are going to drag me with you. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink"

My reply is:

You can see that I do not believe in the efficacy of elections to bring about progressive change. I see the elections as something that is there whatever I may wish. It has become a referendum on whether a bunch of racists, women in the homers, gay bashers, zionist fanatics and rabid war mongers can unite behind a cultist and kick out the first black president. I'd like to kick their asses and this is one way to possibly do that. Beat their lying cheating thieving asses in a vote. Why can't you grasp that? Are you one of them?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

I haven't commented on this issue before and maybe I should have. I lived in Bountiful, Utah many years ago and struggled with many forms of discrimination while I was there. Pressure on my kids, continual door-knocker reminders, sales prospects interrupting to ask if you were, LDS, who your bishop was etc before telling you that they wouldn't do business with you and many, many others. I have since said, only a little tongue in cheek, that I knew what it was like to be black. Of course, I only experienced a small fraction of what real persons of color have and still do experience but I am sure it made me much more conscious than I would otherwise have been. And I often, mentally, remind myself to walk a mile in another person's shoes.

When I lived there (and I traveled extensively through the state) I had a few conversations with local blacks, some of whom were LDS, and both those who weren't and those who were said they were always conscious that they we one additional step below white counterparts. They have made a couple of official changes re women and blacks, but if you think their equivalent of Jim Crow is gone, I believe you are naive.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Where are those six arrestees? The link btw is from the United Nations, seeking a professional to go to Libya on behalf of the "World Body" to try to disarm the population. The reasons virtually all Libyans have arms are a few. For one, Khadaffy armed lots of them. For another NATO armed lots of them. Why virtually any Libyan with two working neurons wants a weapon is that there is no rule of law there at present, that has been wrecked thanks to the wonderful "help" that came from NATO and the Gulf despots. The economy, also is in shambles which means there are desperate people running around with guns and unlimited ammunition .according to the UN.

Your memory of the Libya intervention is fuzzy. First of all NATO does nothing without US backing and participation. The US airforce was fully engaged, because the British and French airforces were pretty quickly exhausted. Look it up.

The war there continues. People are still dying in droves. You are rather cavalier in your pronunciato that these "Ayrabs" must suffer in order to reach a heavenly state in which their governance will resemble the most exemplary of all, where billionaire thieves who ought to be in jail are publicly showered with wet kisses in Congress and poor and minority people are swindled out of their rights as citizens to at least pick between tweedle dee and tweedle dumber..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SdhpU7IGIW8

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

I agree with your first paragraph and don't understand the second. Did I say any of those things that I am fuzzy about? I didn't say anything about Ayrabs, that I can recall. Were you talking to me, brightonsage?

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I wasn't replying to you, or thought I wasn't. I was replying to VQkag2. Maybe it was my error that you got the reply. Sorry.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

No problem.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

You know, if they see fit to boycott "gentiles" - and they do whenever they can - why not a boycott on them???

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

Yeah, I forgot to mention being a "gentile". Well, they are very adept at using economic pressure and I don't think they have ever had much retaliation from their victims. A number of businesses would deduct the tythe from everyone's pay check, even non LDS employees, who they usually hired only because of some special skill. If you wanted the job, you paid the tythe off the top. There are a lot in the security agencies, which makes me uncomfortable.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

"There are a lot in the security agencies, which makes me uncomfortable.' Yes, we all should share your discomfort over that.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

Imagine if they were Muslims?

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

If they were disciplined members of a secretive sect that has a living prophet, a racist theology, its own ethical and moral code that contradicts those of Islam I'd be a bit concerned too. Is there an islamic equivalent to Mormonism? I don't know. They say the Druse and the Alawites are secretive, have secret ceremonies. i don't know about that. Do you? Are there Druse or Alawite cells embedded in the US security apparatus? I kind of doubt that.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

The parallel breaks down in several respects pretty quickly. I'm no expert but one is a very powerful hierarchical structure with prophets at the top.

The other has a number of personality-centric groups which are more horizontal. But the Iranian Shiites had the Ayatollah Khomeini as the head of a more hierarchical structure that has tried to implement a theocracy or caliphate. The Sunni Wahibis in Saudi Arabia have sort of a partnership with the house of Saud and I believe they may be somewhat hierarchic. The have a lot of influence in other countries but seem to work through government more than become government. Does any of this make sense?

I have no knowledge of Islam in Indonesia or other places relative to government. I was able to monitor some of the Mormon network of missionaries though, from inside front organizations in Salt Lake City. That was scary enough.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Yes, doing business in Saudi means waiting for meetings with the Prince, but you only meet with attendents since you are lowly. That is now I understand it. I guess you would say it is a Wahabi Kingdom and all business goes through different Princes.

Could be we have princes called Bishops in Salt Lake.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

There are Bishops everywhere. They are the lowest rung on their hierarchy above members. Catholics raise Bishops to third from the top, but not Mormons. Business does go through separate Princes who are about as secular as they can be. They really try to keep it separate, so they know exactly what the mullahs are trying to interfere with.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Sounds like you have experience that I don't. You make sense to me.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

To make a long story short, there is no Muslim mafia so to speak within the US security apparatus, while there very well may and could be a Mormon one.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

I believe you are correct and isn't that a thought provoking observation? As soon as whispers begin in media about its existence, it will be confirmed by a coordinated attack, much as the oligarchs do. Oh wait, they are oligarchs, aren't they?

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Those in the FBI, CIA etc. are tools of first the oligarchs of their church and second, the national oligarchs of whatever religion and in that order precisely. Their religion and living prophet demand that sort of loyalty.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 7 years ago

What you say is scarily (sp) true.You had better duck your head. The wrath of Sandy is upon you.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

"The wrath of Sandy is upon you." true

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Why are no main stream candidates doing anything about drug laws that have been used to largely imprison black people?

Why is my city still in the top 5 worst places to live for young black males?

Why hasn't there been an executive order signed protecting LGBT rights under federal contracts or in the entire workplace?

Why hasn't there been anything done on the federal level for gay marriage?

Women still make less than men on average. Why did both Obama and Romney dodge that question?

Why do we have the world's largest prison population that is still growing?

Your post is off as in it is not entirely accurate.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Ding ding ding....

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

And yet they won't defend their argument, instead they just downvote to get my comment at the bottom where no one can see it.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

For some strange reason millions of black people see this election as an existential matter. Perhaps they understand that Romney has mobilized and brought into a grand coalition their deadliest foes and they wish to stop them or at least slow them down.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

That doesn't answer why neither Obama or Romney have a platform that benefits the issues I mentioned.

Could it be that they're both funded by the 1% and that the elections are bought by corporations and banks and biased network media to ensure the 1% maintain their rule?

Also I don't think it's an existential matter. It's just much more to do with the fact that Romney is an out of touch, corporate, white, mormon, republican. that is in no way inspiring, and is terrible at giving speeches.

Honestly having a first black president was one of the reasons I even voted for Obama in 2008. I think that plays a factor... and again as I mentioned Romney being an out of touch paid for clown.

Either way the racist prison system will grow with Obama or Romney as they have nothing on their agenda to reverse the growing problem.

I've just woken up to the reality of who is still running the show. The money. And it's been going on for a long time now.

Mandatory minimums for private prisons!

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I'm not a defender of Obama, though I think he has done a few good things. In fact I think he ought to stand trial in an international tribunal for the interventions he has done in Libya and many other places. Perhaps you don't get my point: Romney represents a mobilization akin to Mussolini and his black shirts or Hitler and his brown shirts. What is coming up is an election that could give them new momentum or maybe, just maybe, slow them down. I am one who doesn't believe anything lasting and positive will come from any election in terms of policies of peace and a correct approach to the needs of the poor and near poor anywhere. What this election is going to do is affect the political and cultural climate of this country. The choices are not pretty, they're horrible. I am also concerned that OWS is off the rails and I am hoping that it can recover and get back on track, or that some other manifestation of the class struggle by the workers and oppressed will rise up. That's the only hope I see.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

If Romney is Hitler, then Obama is Stalin.

I think all those who voted for these wars and the congress who has failed to impeach the past 2 presidents for crimes all deserve to lose their seats and be put on trial.

Funding the war is just as bad as voting for it.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

As long as you choose to be blind the the central issue of US politics, which is "race" ie. "what are 'we' going to do 'about' black people ?" You and I will remain miles apart and IMHO you will continue to be a part of the problem.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

So I should just vote Obama and then I'm part of the solution? What are you talking about exactly? How am I the problem?

How am I ignoring race? I just said the 2 party system does not work in favor of equality. They work for the 1%.

I would say Jill Stein actually has the best platform in regards to issues on race and women which is why I support her.

I also think the wars continue due to racism and prejudice against Muslims. Which is one of the many reasons I refuse to vote for anyone who supports war as a foreign policy.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Voting against the brownshirts is a small part of the solution and by no means complete as any solution. I can have an even better platform as does Jill Stein and it won't mean diddly squit right now. Stopping the racists or at least slowing them down does matter right now. Your chatter about 99 percent and one percent obscures the issue of the oppressed minorities in this country. People like you prefer to ignore that and I cannot spend endless hours sending you links about it. You prefer being an "I'm alright" white guy. That's where it is. Have a nice day.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

the 1% financed both of these men to not give a fuck about real issues.

Real issues like corrupted democracy due to money in politics.

Real issues like ending wars based on lies, racism, and prejudice.

Real issues like reforming drug laws which have been abused to put blacks and latinos in jail. The statistics are outrageous and obviously happened due to racism.

You can keep telling me the status quo is the solution to the problems in the status quo.... but it's not going to work.

Both Obama and Romney will bomb countries in 2013. I will not vote for that. No thanks. They both are the "brown shirts" in my eyes.

Indefinite detention laws! Spying on Americans! Groping you and searching you when you travel! Any male of age killed by drone strikes are militants! NO THANKS. I will not vote for that. I'll keep voting for real people like Jill Stein.

I'm a good person actually. You can have a nice day too.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

"You can keep telling me the status quo is the solution to the problems in the status quo.... but it's not going to work."

I'm wondering if we read and write in the same language. I think it's actually you who hold on to the status quo, not me- It's you who believes that your vote is sacred, like a wedding vow. That it really impacts policies. That your world as a white guy has nothing to do withe the special oppression visited against black people in your country. I'm looking at my vote as a cold calculating tactician is looking at it. Fuck their elections, really, but the outcome is going to impact the political and cultural climate in which the struggle will have to proceed. Taking a cold hard assessment I see that a vote against the virtual lynchmob that is behind Romney should be stopped or at least discouraged after the votes are counted.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

I voted for the guy in 2008. He bombed 6 countries. No thanks. Don't want to vote for that again.

No amount of fearmongering will get me to vote for someone who wants to bomb countries in 2013.

The Romney supporters are not going to get me to vote Romney and the Obama supporters not going to get me to vote Obama.

I'm done playing that game.

"You can keep telling me the status quo is the solution to the problems in the status quo.... but it's not going to work." - I stand by that.

It's funny how the people voting for the status quo are always the ones telling me I refuse to let the status quo go.

[-] 3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

""You can keep telling me the status quo is the solution to the problems in the status quo.... but it's not going to work." - I stand by that. "...

me too.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

According to frogman it means you don't care about black people even if you support people who have better policies in regards to race and women.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Jill Stein's policies plus two dollars and twenty-five cents will get me onto the subway so I can go to work. Let's try to live in the real world, and not a virtual one. Anyhow i gotta go to work right now so if you reply it's not me ignoring you. I'll get back to this probably tomorrow.

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

The real world is the world where you have to vote for Obama or Romney and that's democracy?

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Have fun following the sheep off the cliff... Its too bad you clowns are going to drag me with you.

[-] -2 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

We just aren't speaking in the same idiom are we? I say you are misrepresenting my position. Either that is willful or you just can't wrap your head around the pretty straightforward things I've been saying here. It's a bitch looking at white skin privilege when really your life is pretty good, right?

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

How am I misrepresenting your position?

Oppression is a bitch and I've seen it in many ways.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Great that you've observed oppression! My position is the following as I have just pm'd to you:

n reply to this comment: [-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (4648) 22 hours ago The real world is the world where you have to vote for Obama or Romney and that's democracy? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink My reply: Oh Trevor! Who the fuck told you that the USA is a democracy? Your third grade teacher? The USA is not and never has been a democracy! The Democrats are not and never have been "the party of the people." (or "the poor" or "the average guy" or whatever.) What is on right now is a national referendum on the following question: Can the most reactionary fascistic elements of US society - the white supremacists, Wall Street, rabid gangster zionists like Sheldon Adelson, those who say rape is a gift from their god, gay bashers, all unite behind a member of a racist secretive cult and boot out the first black president of the USA based on lies? This election at least gives me the possible chance to tell them to go fuck themselves, and the horses they all rode in on too. This election does not replace in any way the need for militant struggle and revolution it highlights this need. "Democracy!" Shit you must be on drugs. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 7 years ago

Fearmongering 101.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

You can't even spell the word "Mormon." You doubtless know nothing about Mormonism yet you are here to endorse it. Read up on the subject and then come back so we can have a fruitful discussion.

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 7 years ago

What a dummy. As far as cults go, Mormon is so easy to spell.

Much easier than:

Nyarlathotep Cthulhu Yog-Sothoth or Mi-Go, the Fungi from Yuggoth (blessed be His name)

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 7 years ago

Obama,Romney, same ass different cheek!

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Maybe this particular ass has three cheeks? Just sayin'...

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 7 years ago

Maybe it's just the hole in the middle.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Vastly different.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I always interpreted the lyrics of this song as to be about the situation of black people in America:

http://www.lyricsk.com/quicksilver-messenger-service-what-about-me-lyrics.html

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

A discussion I'm having with VQkag2 has run out of space but I want to continue it here: [-] 1 points by VQkag2 (11467) 5 minutes ago I recall thousands of Libyan moderates marching in support of US policy& our murdered diplomats. They might know better than you. And whether it better then or noe is not relevant! THEN was horrible, brutal and unacceptable. NOW is transition. Understand? Whatevr is happening now will end. The extremists are creating much misery, bloodspill, & death because they want these countries to become Islamist theocracies. The people will benefit only under a moderate democracy. So all should support the moderate democracy and persevere through this most difficult time of transition. We can't go back! Forward! Peace My reply: One thing awake people can grasp is that information, and especially misinformation and disinformation are tools of war and that this is a war being waged against even you! Going back at least to the Spanish American War you can find and document lies and deceptions given out as "fact" meant to justify the unjustifiable: wars of greed and interventions against the defenseless. Now the fact is and it was brought to you yesterday - the leader of the attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi is walking free in public and unmolested in that city. Now, if so many Libyans there love Ammurika and what "we" "did for them" why in hells do they allow this to go on?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

The moderate Libyans are not more powerful than the well armed extremists.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Well according to the UN "it is believed that each households in Tripoli (and probably all around Libya) has more than one weapon in the house. There has been increasing international concern over the large amount of ammunition that is freely accessible and has the potential to be illegally proliferated to various terrorist groups present in the region. The JMACT and its partners are working with the NTC in dealing with this issue, but further resources are urgently needed in order to deal with this immediate threat."

In other words the typical Libyan family is armed to the teeth. (Gee I wonder how that came to be?). I think you have been taken in by disinformation. The leader of the embassy attack wanders the streets of a place where everyone and anyone could fire a shot at him. The FBI is also there now but as of yet haven't been able to get their hands on any of the alleged attackers. I wonder why? Could it be they are the local heroes? http://unjobs.org/vacancies/1349885166021

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I disagree that everyone is armed to the teeth. THAT sounds like disinformation. Moderates by definition wouldbe less armed. no?

What about the arrests? Up to 6 I believe. What about the protests the next day. Thousands in support of our policy & our dipl.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 7 years ago

I would love to have a Morman president. Too bad Romney is a republican. Seriously, people who think religion matters in this election or the last one are messed up in the head.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Perhaps its a trade off between the two- neither one will talk about each other's churches? The right was pretty brutal on Obama in 08, and looking back at it, some of it was deserved (I personally was too ccaught up in hope and change to notice). Maybe the DNC and RNC made a deal?

As far as Mittens and his Mormon cult, I havent dug too deep into it, because Im not voting for him and I honestly dont think he has a prayers chance inhell of winning, but everything I have heard is extremely fucked up.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Yeah, "professional courtesy" among scoundrels. It could be. I'm not bound by any such deal they might have made or keep unspoken.

[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 7 years ago

"Importantly at issue is really whether Blacks are really Americans."

I shall always repeat.....there was a nation of people here, on these shores, long before the invaders (pale skin nations of Europe) arrived. These people were not "Indians, Native Americans or slaves from Africa) Although these nations migrated from the continent of Africa aeons before history was written by Europeans here, we fail to understand that those who now call themselves Negro, black, colored or African Americans are their descendants. Now, ask yourself, why in gods name would a conquering nation from Europe, ever want you to know that? Do your research, as those past days and times have everything to do with what is taking place now....

We are at a crucial crossroads in this country and the apparent battle lines have always been drawn...

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

The most interesting story of this election, that will be told some months after Nov 6, will be the story of the greatest fear, no terror, in the hearts of many white Americans: the fear of being accused of racism.

So great is this fear that when polled, even by an unseen voice on the other end of a phone connection, many white people will claim an Obama vote, but given the present economic havoc, will actually vote for anybody but the current president.

On the other hand, there are few Romney supporters that will not enthusiastically pronounce their voting plans to pollsters and then divert from that plan once inside the booth.

Given the post-debate polling this one factor could make the 2010 landslide look like a close call.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157817/election-2012-likely-voters-trial-heat-obama-romney.aspx

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/23/debates-deliver-favorability-edge-romney/

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

So you think white racists will vote against Pres Obama but lie to pollsters about that intention?

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

The history of the Dinkins defeat is instructive. There is a layer of whites who like to believe they aren't racist and like to believe they would never act out of racial animus even though they often do so. in NYC this trend is strong among the Jewish population and it probably is why the polls and the actual election Dinkins vs. Giuliani were quite a bit at odds.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Not just Jewish. But you are correct.

It's a real problem that we will be dealing with whenever a non white runs.

They country has many racists still.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Right, not only Jewish but among NY Jews, many of whose parents and grandparents were radicals the trend is strongest I believe.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I don't find that amongst the many Jews I know. I think Crown heights Jewish people are especially prone to anti dinkins sentiment.

I found more Italian & Italian wanna be working class whites (of which there are a great deal more in nyc) to be more vehemently anti Dinkins even still to this day. And they also exhibit the most pro Giuliani support.

But that is just my experience.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I think a majority of NY Jews did vote for Dinkins but it was a smaller margin than this group usually gives Democratic candidates and looking at it that way, it made the difference in what was a fairly close election.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Maybe. but the other anti Dinkins groups are larger so I think you are correct about the anti Dinkins, anti black sentiment defeating Dinkins but Jews were only one part and I don't think the largest.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Yeah, but it was probably more Jews than other whites lying to the pollsters about how they were going to vote out of shame and guilt. At least they were ashamed and felt guilty. Perhaps that puts them a step ahead of others? I dunno.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

I don't know about that stat. I would submit they all lied the same.

And I would remember as you said, Most Jews voted Dinkins. think they are mostly decent progressive people.

Peace.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

IMHO a mixed bag, like everyone else.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Yeah.

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

No. Read again carefully.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

No thanks. Why? I'm askin you a question not necessarily related to your comment.

What do you think the white racists will do?

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

Not sure.

Racism is a natural human instinct that we inherit after 500,000+ years evolving in tribal communities. Safety could be found in your own tribe and neighboring tribes were generally very dangerous. It continues today however outmoded because it is genetic (why do we cheer for the local sports team when we know the opposing players no less than the home team).

We have a natural tendency to fear things that are different because difference can be dangerous. Race is only one easily identifiable difference; there are many others. You could call it diff-ism.

There is some diff-ism involved in ones choice of political party. Why is the NE so Dem and the Mid-west so Rep? Diff-ism. My neighbor is a Rep so I'll be a Rep, and so on.

Fear is usually an initial, and somewhat slothful, reaction to diff-ism. Most folks have time to think and do not vote based on diff-ism, but will choose depending on some issue they deem important. Ask anyone why they chose a candidate and you will usually hear about a position on some issue.

We are all diff-ists by nature, the point is how do we as individuals react to people. Do we resist the diff-ism and treat people as people, or take the easy, and maybe safer path and fear them as we would a foreign tribe.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Some of us (maybe North easterners) have gotten beyond the tribal instincts of thousands of years ago and learned to think.

Not all of us, I agree. Some of us are still afraid and racists. er um diffists.

Are you afraid? Don't be. consider the education you probably had. We are all the same. One tribe! One race! The HUMAN RACE!

So you seem to be in touch with the racists, I'm gonna say their too "afraid" to vote for a black man, do you think they would lie to pollsters?

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

The North Easterners are as tribal as anyone in the US; maybe more, they've been at it longer.

If we are all one tribe why do we so eagerly self-segregate?

We think that we are not diff-ists like fish think they are not wet. It is like the new fruit. The fruit may be sweet, it may be healthy, but it is our instinct to be wary of this new, different thing.

Don’t be so hard on the diff-ists. We all have those thoughts from time to time. Maybe not about race but we frequently make judgments about people based on where they live, what they wear, how they speak, the kind of car they drive, or even how they vote. We make judgments based on these differences because in the past rapid judgments about people could be life-and-death calls. This kind of instinct is difficult to suppress.

But to your question. Diff-ism is a state of mind that is impossible for others to know, but does no harm to them. Acts hurt others, such as the act of accusing someone of racism because their skin tone fails to match that of the candidate they oppose. Such an accusation would be a prejudiced act because it requires that the accuser make a judgment about a person without the necessary evidence (there are no mind readers). They must therefore be basing the accusation on some demonstrative difference. If the difference was race they would be committing an act of racial prejudice.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Thank you. So if we call a racist a racist, we are racist? I got it. And everyone is racist whether they express it or not? (that very conveniently provides cover for the active racists).

You are so wise.

Sounds like the people who vote against Pres Obama cause they don't want to vote for a black man are just exhibiting the natural feelings we all have and so it is ok?

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

As I wrote, diff-ism is our nature; however be it our darker nature. We are born with it just like we might be born with red hair. But just as we can do something about our hair color we can do something about our diff-ism. It is our actions, not our thoughts, that can hurt others.

Accusing someone of being a racist could be an act of racial prejudice. It might also be an attempt to precipitate some desired response. It depends on the motivation of the accuser, which is impossible for others to know for sure. In either case the accused is hurt by the accusation and has no recourse since the negative of an argument is not provable. I can't prove that Witches don't fly.

For this reason the best course is to avoid accusing people of having a particular thought since it is not possible to know their mind.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

So if was chased by a group of white people as a kid who were hurling racial slurs, and I called them a racist your concern would be how hurtful it was for them? And you would call me a racist for calling out a racist?

You are so wise!

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

Calling you a racist would be wrong because I can't know your mind. That is the point.

Only the individual knows their own mind. If that individual declares their thoughts openly that is pretty compelling evidence, but they could also be lying.

For this reason the best course is to avoid accusing people of having a particular thought since it is not possible to know their mind. This is also why convictions for hate crimes are so rare; and the bar for conviction is only reasonable doubt.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

But you did say calling someone a racist would be racist didn't you?

So wouldn't you say I'm a racist for calling my attackers (hurling racists slurs) racists.?

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

I wrote:

"Accusing someone of being a racist could be an act of racial prejudice. It might also be an attempt to precipitate some desired response. It depends on the motivation of the accuser, which is impossible for others to know for sure. In either case the accused is hurt by the accusation and has no recourse since the negative of an argument is not provable. I can't prove that Witches don't fly.

For this reason the best course is to avoid accusing people of having a particular thought since it is not possible to know their mind."

Calling you a racist would be wrong because I can't know your mind. That is the point.

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

I wrote:

"But to your question. Diff-ism is a state of mind that is impossible for others to know, but does no harm to them. Acts hurt others, such as the act of accusing someone of racism because their skin tone fails to match that of the candidate they oppose. Such an accusation would be a prejudiced act because it requires that the accuser make a judgment about a person without the necessary evidence (there are no mind readers). They must therefore be basing the accusation on some demonstrative difference. If the difference was race they would be committing an act of racial prejudice."

Calling you a racist would be wrong because I can't know your mind. That is the point.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

And if someone votes against Pres Obama because he is black (and they admit it), then they are committing an act of racism and we can call it racism without you calling us racist. Right? We don't have to worry about hurting the racist in that case right?

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

As I wrote:

"Only the individual knows their own mind. If that individual declares their thoughts openly that is pretty compelling evidence, but they could also be lying."

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

So it's ok to call a group of teenagers chasing down a pre teen hurling racial slurs, racists?

And you wouldn't say it's hurtful to those teenagers doing the chasing?

And you can't know if I'm a racist for calling them racists because you don't KNOW my mind? Didn't I establish that I was chased by a group of white people hurling racist slurs? Does that go to my mind? I did say 'white'. Does that make me a racist.?

Would it clarify your mind if I told you what they did when they caught me?

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

So it's ok to call a group of teenagers chasing down a pre teen hurling racial slurs, racists?

Answer: It is not provable, however in the US one can be convicted of it. It is dangerous to give the Gov the power to send someone to prison for a thought.

And you wouldn't say it's hurtful to those teenagers doing the chasing?

Answer: Racism is typically self-destructive.

And you can't know if I'm a racist for calling them racists because you don't KNOW my mind?

Answer: Correct

Didn't I establish that I was chased by a group of white people hurling racist slurs? Does that go to my mind?

Answer: As I wrote:

"Only the individual knows their own mind. If that individual declares their thoughts openly that is pretty compelling evidence, but they could also be lying."

I did say 'white'. Does that make me a racist.?

Answer: Calling you a racist would be wrong because I can't know your mind. That is the point. BTW, your life experience may reinforce your instinctive diff-ism. That only makes it more difficult to resist the instinct and judge people as people, not as some human subset.

Would it clarify your mind if I told you what they did when they caught me?

Answer: Whatever they did would you want their punishment reduced because some jury did not classify it as a hate crime? Again, this is the point.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

diff-ism is not real! You made it up to euphemistically white wash, and minimize racism.

Racism is not a variant of diff-ism, cause you made it up.

LOL

Do you believe that crap?

You are a defender, excuser, and therefor an enabler of racism & racists.

Please, I don't buy one word of your convoluted excuses.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Do you have a vague memory of the following words?

The Klansman's pledge of secrecy pertains to all matters connected with the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

(a) He is sworn to keep solemnly secret the symbols of the order. This means that he will not disclose the signs, words, or grip.

(b) He is solemnly sworn to keep sacredly secret all information that he may receive concerning the order. The alien world is eager to learn all it can of the inner secrets and workings and plans of the organization. The Klansman who is enlightened as to these matters is obligated to keep his information both sacred and secret.

Well do ya'?

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

They were racists. Are you kidding? hurling the racists slurs while chasing down a child is a racist act. Those racist actions prove their racist minds. That is proof!

You go to great lengths to defend obvious racists and then suggest I am reinforcing some instinctive diff-ism (not a real word but one you coined to minimize racism) in me.

So if someone continually obfuscates, excuses, creates Orwellian euphemisms to white wash racism and provide twisted technical arguments in defense of racism, can we consider that an act of racism and then accept that as proof that their mind is diseased with racism, and therefor call them what they are?

A RACIST!.

Is that ok?

LMFAO!

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

Racism is just one abhorrent variant of diff-ism from which humans suffer. I just resist the languid and destructive practice of presuming the ability to see into the minds of others, and worse, broadcasting that vision.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

The funniest ones claim racism is a "natural" condition.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 7 years ago

Before I get off into breaking apart this whole damned forum, I want to note what you stated.....1sealyon.....

"Racism is a natural human instinct that we inherit after 500,000+ years evolving in tribal communities"
Who told you this? Is this something you believe, or has this just been ingrained into you as it was passed down to you through the American (white) school system?

If anyone will research European and the Caucus mountains history, you will discover much information pertaining to the pale skin nations of Europe and their implementation of racism as they set forth to conquer all...and I do mean all...of the dark continents on the face of this earth. Even in Europe, where dark skinned (tribes) existed long before the written records of human history. The greatest of all feats that the pale skin European did was to unite with each other to divide and conquer those of this same human race who maintained civilizations and prosperity long before they (pale skin Europeans) could even begin to understand.....and trust me...they still can't get it and are now at a stand still no matter what you might want to believe! This is the over 10,000 years or more that must be explained in their books! So, please Lets, get down to basic facts before you start trying to dissect the madness that exists today....even

"No clear and unequivocal evidence of racism has been found in other cultures or in Europe before the Middle Ages. The identification of the Jews with the devil and witchcraft in the popular mind of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries was perhaps the first sign of a racist view of the world" http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-02-01.htm If you do research, you will find more truths to these facts....even in your "Holy Bible" there is no mention of racism, only the destruction of nations! Ask yourselves, how in the hell did man's mind begin to believe that this earth and the universe would make such a distinction amongst its inhabitants and give man the ultimate right to destroy one another because of that fact? Now in all honesty.....does that make any bull shyt sense to anyone?

Godspell and the power of illusion mind manipulation... People, please...take yourselves out of the dark ages! http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/racism-history/

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 7 years ago

I (kind of) jokingly thought that might happen in '08. Figured so many white people were walking around, patting themselves on the back for voting for a black man and wanting everyone to know, but then McCain would win with like 95% of the vote.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

But that didn't happen.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

That might have actually happened in the last Giuliani vs. Dinkins voting. The polls all seemed after it was over to have been skewed towards Dinkins, who of course lost, though not by very many votes.

I know my Romney supporters at the garage I work at , just brimming with "humor" at the expense of blacks.... Fuck them they need to learn a lesson I hope they get.

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 7 years ago

Well some polls are skewed because the pollsters are biased. On the other hand, polling organizations risk their credibility and $ millions if they fail to make accurate predictions, particularly in presidential elections.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

The theory is that particularly Jewish voters, a large bloc in NYC of habitual Democrats and diaper liberals- were truly embarrassed to tell anyone that they were going to vote for Giuliani but many of them did - not on the Republican line - their grandparents would turn over in their graves for that- but on the Liberal Party or Independence Party lines. Giuliani did not win running as a Republican.

[-] -2 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

In reply to this comment:

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (4648) 22 hours ago The real world is the world where you have to vote for Obama or Romney and that's democracy? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink My reply: Oh Trevor! Who the fuck told you that the USA is a democracy? Your third grade teacher? The USA is not and never has been a democracy! The Democrats are not and never have been "the party of the people." (or "the poor" or "the average guy" or whatever.)

What is on right now is a national referendum on the following question:

Can the most reactionary fascistic elements of US society - the white supremacists, Wall Street, rabid gangster zionists like Sheldon Adelson, those who say rape is a gift from their god, gay bashers, all unite behind a member of a racist secretive cult and boot out the first black president of the USA based on lies? This election at least gives me the possible chance to tell them to go fuck themselves, and the horses they all rode in on too. This election does not replace in any way the need for militant struggle and revolution it highlights this need. "Democracy!" Shit you must be on drugs.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

You're telling me I have to either vote Obama or Romney is the real world is ridiculous.

My reply of calling that "democracy" was mocking your theory who I need to vote for.

[-] -2 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I see you can't answer to my main and central point abut what this election is really about. You dodge and weave and make false allegations against me. I am saying that my position is the revolutionary one. I want to get at and hurt my worse enemies. Yours is one based upon your feelings that you are indeed privileged.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

this election is about money interests staying in power via Obama or Romney and continuing their foreign policy of war and bombs. Many levels of corruption. There is more than what I have listed. But they wish to continue many areas of corruption. And they do this via congress members as well and so on.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

All I can say is you choose to be blind and there is a limit to how much bandwidth should be used in this back and forth and how much of my time I will devote to addressing a smug white male privileged wall.. We've each stated our case.Have a good day and a great life Trevor.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Have fun being a racist who has classified me based on my skin color.

You're going the wrong direction with this issue.

[-] -2 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I'm so glad you let your inner whiteboy out. go fuck yourself.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

My inner white boy? Again there you go.

Why is it that if I support people with better policies in regards to race and in regards to women... in your mind that means I really don't care about black people? Your logic has no logic.

I voted Obama in 2008. He bombed 6 countries and is talking about a war in Iran. He lost my vote for that. Jill Stein is my choice. You can say that means I don't care about black people all you want. You can call it fantasy world or whatever. You're just pushing fearmonger propaganda by saying it means I don't care about black people... and you're being a dick about it.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Where you misrepresent me is your continued insistence that I am "supporting" Obama. I am not. I want to see him face an international tribunal. That is not going to happen any time soon regardless of my wishes. In the meantime the worst most reactionary elements of this country are mobilized behind Mitt Romney to take a resounding victory which if it occurs will set back the political and cultural climate on the US. This will also result in a quickened pace in dismantling the safety net upon millions of people rely to stay alive, and many of those people, disproportionately are minorities and in the mind's eye of the conservathugs these - especially black people - represent the 47 percent who they despise and want to see dead. Yes, and as the safety net is shredded people are going to die, maybe not you and maybe none of your friends but yes, people will die.

Why Bibi Netanyahu and his "American" patron Sheldon Adelson want to boot out Obama is also something you won't consider, because you are doing okay so are your friends, there is no draft so you don't worry about being taken by coercion to fight in the next war they cook up.

It doesn't matter to you if on the morning of November seventh the gay bashers, haters of black people and the poor, the chicken hawk suits are crowing and doing a victory lap towards the white house, the wind from behind filling their sails. Well, it matters to me. BTW- you call me a racist I tell you go fuck yourself- that's the deal.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

You don't support Obama... you just tell everyone they MUST vote for him through fearmongering... the same thing the republicans are doing to republicans to get them to vote Romney.

"Iraq has WMD's and is a threat" - Who said this? Bush, Cheney, the Clintons, or Joe BIden? It was all 5 of them.

Who voted for the war in Iraq? Joe Biden or Lindsey Graham? Both of them.

Who funded the war in Iraq? Louie Gohmert, Michelle Bachmann, Obama, or Biden? It was all of them.

I can show you the voting records and video of them saying it.

Both sides are corrupted by the 1%.

You can keep blaming me for the gay bashers and racists.... where do they teach such awesome knowledge by the way? Do they teach that at Rutgers or Dartmouth? It's all TrevorMnemonic's fault? "Those people voting for their ideals! It's all their fault. Us people voting for pro-war candidates share no responsibility in any problems we don't agree with even if the person we voted for is partly or fully responsible on the issue." This is me mocking your fearmonger bullshit.

I've said it time and again, I am voting for people who do not want to bomb countries in 2013 and have better policies in regards to war, race, women, and economic policy.

No more response for you. I'll just keep repeating myself.

[-] -1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Oh man, you are a trip. It's not your fault that the gay bashers, the black haters, those who believe rape can be a gift from their god are all united behind the mormon liar from Massachusetts, Michigan, California, New Hampshire and Utah. You are simply united with them in deeds in their purpose.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Not at all actually. You are a very ignorant person if you think I support them.

You know nothing about me.

I'm the only person in my city willing to chase out hardcore republicans after debates for trying to start wars with Iran.... yet it's all my fault if it happens.

I'm actually trying to call these people out in public places.... but it's all my fault and I join them after? Fuck you if you truly think that.

Conversation done. I will not respond to you on this forum anymore.

[-] -2 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

So you are a personal mixed bag. On this forum you defacto are for Romney. Got to check out now. You told me once before you wouldn't respond to me. No sweat.

[-] -2 points by yobstreet (-575) 7 years ago

I've never met a black Leftist, so I suppose you are right - they are all white Leftists - and unfortunately, many are just as prejudiced as their Right brethren. Most of the Left's issues, no offense, are just not concerns of the African American. So the election becomes a black/white issue in the sense that no African American would ever vote for the white oppressor of any political or religious persuasion if a black candidate is available.

[-] 2 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Yobstreet - defender of the Mormons - is not your friend if you are gay, Muslim, black, progressive, Jewish.

http://tinyurl.com/8btpzec

http://newyorkcabbiesaudiovisualblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-song-for-mitt-romney-and-sincere-wish.html

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 7 years ago

And yet you want Charles Barron to be mayor? Well, you're not the worst supporter he's ever had.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-06-21/news/32356271_1_city-councilman-charles-barron-david-duke-endorsement

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Politics make strange bedfellows. Remember Churchill Roosevelt and Stalin in coalition. Along with Chiang Kai Shek and Mao! all on the same team (while maneuvering against each other at the very same time) Then the war was over and they went about punching on each other so to speak. (Okay at the end of the war it was Roosevelt's chosen successor Truman).

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 7 years ago

True. As long as you are cool with the anti gay marriage stance and the anti Semitism, you can support whomever you like.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I don't understand this comment? Me anti gay marriage? oh, Barron is! Well, many people myself included have evolved and woken up over the whole issue of gay rights. O hope Barron can do the same, or maybe he has done so. Anti Semitic? NO, anti Zionist. Though in my own personal opinion, representing no one but myself the Jewish religion is as subject to scrutiny and criticism as is Mormonism or Catholicism or any other and to have a critical eye to a set of beliefs and practices (not a genetic trait) is not racist, it's looking at facts, not at the intrinsic worth of individual human beings.

[-] -2 points by yobstreet (-575) 7 years ago

I collect frogs. Truth.

I've always liked frogs.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

That's is staggeringly ignorant!

[-] 0 points by yobstreet (-575) 7 years ago

Yea, I would say so.

[-] -3 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 7 years ago

Most blacks will vote for Obama because he is black. Period. That is a harsh truth.

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[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 7 years ago

So, are you the spokesperson, or leader, or perhaps the total mind reader for 'BLACKS' here in America?

So would it be realistic to say that "most whites will vote for Romney because he is white. period. that is a harsh truth"?

The racial divide of this country is a pathetic and mindless issue that was created by those men whose lives are nothing without it!

[-] -2 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 7 years ago

Don't face reality if it is too much for you. Whites put Obama in power. But blacks will only vote for blacks. At least most of them. Some are even threatening violence if Obama doesn't win. Hell, the Secret Service is investigating some of the threats on Romney's life. I bet those threats make you happy...

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

You are staggeringly ignorant and racist. How did blacks vote in 1988 when there were 2 white people running.?

[-] -3 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 7 years ago

Prove one single thing in my previous post that is untrue.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

NO!

[-] -3 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 7 years ago

Of course not. When it comes to left wing scum don't confuse them with facts. Whatever.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

"scum"? insults mean your arguments are impotent.

You lose!

[-] -2 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 7 years ago

Says who? I've seen you insult many people here. Tells me you have no real proof to back up your Marxist garbage. Big surprise.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

If I insult people then I guess I lost those exchanges. I think you are mistaken about that but whatever.

I ain't insulted you, and you are insulting me. So that means you lose, I didn't make that rule up.

That IS the rule.

Do you think you can bully me into changing my opinion? Or are you one of those people who come here to lift themselves up by putting people down.? You get a sick thrill out of insulting people.? Do you kick dogs & steal candy from babies too?

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