Forum Post: the truth from a protester
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 12:36 a.m. EST by annie
(132)
from San Diego, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
"The truth. Many people I know are not protesting. And not because they don't believe in the cause but because they have seen the pattern of 'excitement, peak and decline' of most movements in the last 10-20 years. They agree with the occupy movement and feel hopeful, but not enough to do all that much actual protest work. That's why it is our job, those of us with the time and the inclination, to show our commitment and resilience because if we can't hold tight though the winter we will diminish in numbers. But if we DO stay strong and slowly gain steam by continuing to talk, protest, boycott, organize...we will gather more of these unmotivated believers into long term participants. So stay strong and motivate each other daily...any way you can." L. Marcus, San Diego
ps I am sorry if I am posting this twice...I just can't find it and I don't know if I posted it the first time. I just thought this was a very good comment from a protester and I wanted to share it.
Im there, would protest, but am self employed, if i dont work the bills cant get paid, many of my friends are in the same boat, like the idea, support the cause, are hungry for change, wary of radical change, so a bit reluctant to jump on the band wagon till a beter defined direction emerges,
Would love to protest, currently in college, would not be able to continue going and protest at the same time, would never be able to get academic credit for protesting (I go to MIT; I might be able to pitch it as a political science or social science research project if they're around this summer but I'd need an actual proposal and a number of other things in place first) and don't want to randomly take time off in the middle of my studies. I am very much behind the movement, and I do believe in changing things.
However, I am far more of a moderate who would like to see regulated capitalism and a second New Deal to pick up the pieces of this crisis. I don't have much patience for anarchism, communism, etc, and I don't necessarily believe those are a good idea. I do, however, feel that if this keeps gaining momentum and the GAs start pushing an actual platform we have a shot at implementing some of these changes. I also believe that this movement is held together by tenuous enough bonds that if regulated capitalism is achieved and they try to go farther the coalition will shatter and nothing more will happen. I'm on the bandwagon because I believe that if they succeed they'll be able to implement moderate change but will collapse before they can do anything more.
Good, someone else for realistic change. What do you think of this:
Right now there is only one US Rep. per 720,000 people. It's no wonder they don't listen to the people anymore. There is nothing in the Constitution that says it has to be that high. If we reduce that number, the Reps will be closer to the people and their increased number will be much harder for the lobbyists to corrupt.
Good!
well put! agreed!
surely you can find time for a few hours per week? they are there 24/7
Actually no, not here where i live, its sporaddic, and generally when deliveries need to be made or other catch up needs to be done, believe me, ive looked into it, local group is scattered, is all good though, when things are more organized it will be easier to make it happen, im pretty sure this will evolve into a larger action than just protesting, it has to in order for it to continue
I hope so, but has of now, it will prob just stay has is.
Yes, I think many feel this way. i know there are many things in place to disrupt business as usual , the purpose being to get the attention of our elected officials until the dialogue refocuses away from MONEY for money's sake and towards quality of life for american citizens. We've gotten so far off track. I know that there are other options for busy people. The main best way to do your part if you can't protest is to talk about the movement from your heart with everyone. You don't have to sell it. Just tell people what you'd like to see happen. I, for one, would like corporate money out of politics so I know that the people I vote for will actually be working for the people and not big business. I think this is the first domino in the chain that needs to fall. After that our government will be able to represent its citizens and maybe we can work on the rest....and there's a lot, eh?!
Very true. Stand by the movement and don't give up. It's working and we've got the stage. We can do this.
Like no time before, it is the time NOW>
From out of darkness the (TRUTH) has found me.
here here
Rather have (HIS) (SILVER) of (KNOWLEDGE) than man's gold.
His Silver of Knowledge ( Re-fined ) becomes ( Under-Standing) of (GOLD).
HIS (GOLD) (re-fined) beomes (WISDOM) of (DIAMOND) more brilliant than dimond itself.
For man's didn't create all (3).
I work during the week but participate on the weekends and do all I can to get the TRUTH out about what this Movement is really about!!! It does not get cold where I'm from, but I have a family member who is part of OWS and I donate and do what I can when I can, because this Movement is shaping our FUTURE!!!---> http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/
thank you for saying this. Even just a few work such as yours inspire me to continue. It is so easy to feel hopeless.Anything we can do to inspire eachother during these months is helpful. I have started (day13) a public facebook page called occupydailyboycott to do just that...give us all a daily mission, keep us all motivated... check it out and if it's your kinda thing...share with your friends. I find that most people I know are on board theoretically but don't participate...many have said that with the facebook daily reminder the movement stays on their mind and they talk about it more...pay attention to news items about it etc. We have to keep people feeling like this includes them, needs them and is not separate from them. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Daily-Boycott/235005926555257
I understand the sentiment, but I think even if we can't hold tight for the winter, this isn't going to end there, so long as we return full force at the spring thaw, and the fact is, a look at the situation across America makes it unlikely that protests won't keep happening.
Remember, the Civil Rights movement boycots and protests happened over ten years before they began to see comprehensive results. And that's because until they won the war the dismal situation was there to see day in and out, to keep them pissed, to keep them motivated. So it's not realistic for folks to think we will give up on this after 2,6, or even 12 months.
Just like it's wishful thinking to think if OWS got 2 or 3 specific laws changed in a move toward solving the problem, that's it, everything's sunshine and roses, since the underlying economic injustice in this country will take awhile to pinpoint solutions for and fix. Winning the bus boycotts in 1956 was not enough to fool those asking for civil rights to go home and protest no more, nor would losing have stopped the momentum permanently.
Because now, like the situation that motivated people to march for civil rights, the injustice is real, widespread, and pervasive, and once folks see the emperor is naked, no amount of hocus pocus can get them to imagine robes for him. People are pissed and it's going to be harder to mollify them, since no band aid is going to be visible as concrete changes in their lives.
But it's a good point to call for everyone to do what they can to keep up the morale. There are folks gearing up for the next shift....but we don't want the folks who can't go out and protest to lose hope while they wait and see.
thank you friend!
Great post, you're hitting the nail on the head! This is the crucial issue that must be solved before anything else. I personally believe that weaning people off the mainstream media (which keeps them distracted with entertainment and misinformed with superficial, incomplete and biased news) must the number one priority. Ask them to try something simple like to watch therealnews.com or RTNews once a week instead of what they're currently watching... I believe many people just need a few drops of truth to be "awakened"...
Stay strong and informed. Read Wildfire, The Legislation that Ignited the Great recession. This book calls out by name those responsible for ruining America's economy.
So... what you are saying is that in the OWS movement, some contribute a lot and others contribute very little. Hmm, sounds like life in general. Could that be a reason for income inequality?
are you implying that everyone who makes good money works harder and longer and deserves it more than those who work for less money?
are there no rich people who contribute little and no poor who contribute a lot?
maybe us who cannot camp so easily there could help donate blankets, tents, sleeping bags and food for the ones that are on the front line...
who do we contact to donate items?
https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23NeedsOfTheOccupiers
This is the beginning of a long process. There will be ups and downs but in the end the people will prevail!!!
again, the only way to bring out the 98 percent is to create evolutionary treatments over the issues which are close to them. this can't effectively be done in a GA style meeting, It can be done on a wiki.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
I think there are lots of people who are highly motivated to work towards change who feel frustrated by the movement.
I applaud your level of commitment, but I don't think that living out in the cold is going to help grow a movement, and it must grow or it will fail. The rich and powerful are not threatened by a tiny percentage of people camping out.
IMO, you would gather a lot more people by meeting in a warm place with a PA system and having a good web site and getting some focused goals.
but lets talk about all that has been done.... there are many websites, media coverage, I see something about this movement everyday and the actual issues are being discussed. whether the protesters stay out in the cold all winter is yet to be seen. they are currently not allowed generators or sturdier structures so there may be no choice...but them fighting for it only shows their commitment. I feel strongly that this is one movement that will slow burn all winter and re-emerge in the spring double strong....before the elections!
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yes, this must grow and grow! I love the idea of t-shirt that say on the back "blood type : contact :_ phone #:_ and on the front "I am protesting peacefully. I will not resist arrest. But I will be back."
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We have done nothing but grow since we started. and like all healthy organisms, we will continue to grow.
If you continue on the same path, I guarantee that you will not grow.
I don't think movements like this grow in only one direction. I believe there will be things that fade away and new ideas that lead the movement in new directions. If we all find the things about the movement we like we can help it grow in those areas. There is always going to be a fringe component to any movement and it's silly to only focus on that.
there's a fine line between realism and pessimism.
If I were pessimistic about the possibility of change in this country, I wouldn't bother posting here.
Grow like a cancer in your current state.
Actually, I reccomend they go home and start calling up OWS to find out why they tried to do this without strategy to gain the legal authority to see demands met. Prepare and educate to go out in the spring and WIN! At least that way the protests/assemblies would be clearly lawful, obviously seeking lawful performance from government.---
I'm seeing far too much expolitation of imagery very detrimental to the movement being used by its opposition right now. Accordingly, time to re group, re educate, and refine the movement and increase its size and acceptabilty by multiples.-----
Article 5 of the constitution is the only way to meet demands, and such a strategy brings awsome legal force to the movement IF it properly structures itself.----
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
yes! I don't worry about the imagery too much. We are taking off the blinders. We all know now how easy it is for the media to corrupt and all we can do is not let it change the core principals of the movement. There will alway be ways to make us look bad but when we have such diversity of ages, incomes, writer, plumbers, doctors, students etc... all that matters is that WE KNOW WHO WE ARE.
The easiest way to know who we are is to openly stand for lawful rebellion against a treasonous infiltration by publically identifying with Article 5 of the constitution.
Annie, I agree with your cause, but I believe you are going all wrong about it. For starters, you are using totalitarian rhetoric and tactics. You claim to speak for the 99% and you forcefully occupy a public space. When you start using a rhetoric that approaches the cause you are fighting for, then I might be interested.
That is incorrect, assuming the voice of others simply because they are unable to participate or are uninformed may be an assumption too great but is not totalitarian in rhetoric or tactic, evidence shows that there is no public dissent for the movement. The opposite is true, there are polls and studies showing that the vast majority support the movement for all of it's stated intents. Do totalitarians allow anybody to speak, do they include others in discussion. This movement does not incite violence in any way, nor does it oppress or repress dissent when it occurs. In the event of inflammatory rhetoric there is censorship on the basis of denying those with said tactics. If you have an example of a more appropriate tactic or rhetoric let them know, otherwise your statement does nothing to further the beliefs you might be interested in, and simply undermines and subverts it. PRODUCTIVE INPUT appreciated.
I agree with your response but I am constantly plagued by the question...how do we get those on board to participate regularly, daily...AND for those who are part of the 99% as far as we are concerned but are completely against the movement....how do we explain without the insults? a big part of this will always be a campaign to reach out and spread the message. check out occupydailyboycott...a public facebook page with an interesting idea of a symbolic daily boycott of a different company... http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Daily-Boycott/235005926555257
thanks, and keep up the good work on all fronts, everyday!
Oh, the problems of religious converts...
"evidence shows that there is no public dissent for the movement"
None whatsoever? Please.
I attempt to point out flawed logic, so insults of course are not necessary. It is disappointing that many don't understand that they are included. There is a popular graph that shows the inequality that signifies, not in numbers but in time frame, the constantly growing disproportionate inequality seen over time as those in the 1% have rapidly growing incomes in the hundreds of percent increases, while those in the 99% have had almost no growth in income. I do not call this income inequality, but income increase or growth inequality. Proportionate increase is reasonable. The current state of affairs is not reasonable.
For people like me who support the cause, but not the movement, you come off like Christians who want to self impose their righteousness on others. You assume we are all part of your movement, but we just don't know it or get it. You should assume that your movement might have major flaws. One of them being the claim that you are speaking for 99% of the people. The other is the idea to occupy a public place which is in effect a totalitarian approach. You do not own the park, it is owned by the people, but a fraction of the people have decided it is owned by them and that they are above the law. Start acting like a democracy, and I might start listening and protesting by your side. Right now, it looks like a bunch of kids away from home for the first time.
know what you are feeling. when it comes down to it, you just don't agree. but what if there WERE something that you felt was seriously wrong and you believed that you needed to do something to fight for change. how would you go about it. what if you already tried going through the usual channels of writing your congressman, acting by voting, etc etc. what cause would be worth it for you to stand out in the streets demanding change? womens rights? civil rights? fair labor practices? apartheid? well, whatever it would be that would make you stand for days on end in the streets, in the cold while half of the country thought you were misguided and annoying....well, that passion and urgency is what has brought all these people together. You might not get it and you might be inconvenienced by it but this is not nothing for hundreds of thousands of people protesting all over the world. And the reason they say they are doing it for you, which may seem condescending, is because they really do believe that this movement will lead to legislation that will change things where no amount of petition signing and letters to local representitives has done in years. and if you want to know what they want, think of it as dominoes. the first, money out of politics so our leaders represent us (and you too!) once that's in place our leaders are beholden to their constituents and not big money. this is democracy at it most ethical. And after that the dominoes fall as corruption is rooted out. will it be by regulating banks, probably...will it involve college tuitions? surely....will corruption in the upper tiers of unions be regulated? hopefully.... But as a society we have been completely unable to affect change of any kind for a very long time. Really this is about taking back control from the few for the benefit of the many. All the protesters, these so called lazy losers who are disrupting your day, aren't calling for love ins. they want to WORK, to pay MORE in TAXES that actually help them make life better by providing services for the whole country, they want ETHICS , for gods sakes. So, sorry for the 2 month inconvenience. It would be surprising to me if you hadn't been far more inconvenienced by most of the policy changes in the last 20 years from both parties. Thanks for your time here.
I and others do not impose anything on anyone. When we participate it is for ourselves. When you propose to tell me what I am doing, that is imposing yourself on me. I hope you understand the difference.
You don't impose anything on anyone when you occupy a public space?
1 - Drop the pretentious slogan. Talk for yourselves, not others. If your message is interesting, we will follow.
2 - You shouldn't repeat your message like parrots day after day after day. Organize a big rally in the park, have interesting speakers, say your message then go home so others can use the park as they wish. Make another rally the next week. Be respectful of others.
3 - Use the $500,000 you've amassed to hire some scholars so they discuss the current economic and political problems in US and write a book of their finings. You can then use the book to shape your goals. Don't spend the money on urine disposal systems and other such waste of time.
4 - Do not repeat the past. 90% of the movement's energy is spent on learning how to live as a commune. That was said and done. Move one. Use the Internet for communication. No need to smell funky to have something funky to say.
Truly, we are well on our way. Please reconsider the message. Figure out what parts you feel are most important for positive american change and talk about those points. We are what we do here. Do we complain, say it will never work. Talk about sweaty hippies and wish it were all neater and cleaner over the internet. Do we wait for someone to fix it like Bush or Obama or Ron Lawl or Mitt Romney. Will they? Can they? NO. Too much corporate money involved. This might be the perfect storm here. A movement at the right moment....who knows....please reconsider.
I think it will never work the way it is being done now, and that's why I proposed some changes. You might still have a chance if you get your act together, but time is not on your side at the moment. More and more people are starting to see this as just another hippie movement without a clear purpose. If you have many slogans, then please consider dropping the 99% one which is ridiculous and arrogant.
but some love it.... my mom for one. I said really? she said...YES ITS GREAT. I prefer "occupy"...she thinks its stupid and unclear. America has many opinions. Should be we argue about how nothing is done the way we would do it ? This is what I do. What I can everyday. Talking from my heart about what matters to me. I'd like un bought politicians, personally. That's why I am interested. What about you?
I agree, and bravo. Though this does occur. The movement was given a name and as many before, it sticks. I think this is what happens so people can easily communicate and understand what one another is referring to. The other suggestions are idealized and sought for. Unfortunately many have no where to go and must stay day after day. Think of the hoovervilles of the first great depression. They were tolerated due to the circumstances of the times, we have been misled in believing in repeated recession. When in today's population 10 percent unemployed is much greater than the 25 percent then.
Scholars have and do speak. Including other communicators. Filmmakers, Educators, Logistics must be understood, perhaps some fail to recognize the implications of these combined factors. And "funky" rhetoric is a form of subversion to the intentions of the movement and disrespectful to those who have been truly injured by the corporatist spoiled system.
Alright then, you're certainly to keep doing it the way you wish. I won't be marching with you I guess. But, that's ok.
our way IS your way....it's only a month old. even though we move in a fast world...a month is nothing for big, long lasting change. the protests are how we get noticed. you might not like what we were noticed but maybe you are looking for ways to be appalled. look here instead. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Daily-Boycott/235005926555257
Your way is not my way because my way does not suppose it's the best way for everyone else.
neither does mine. really. one of the biggest criticisms of the movement from those on the outside is that we don't have one message....we are NOT trying to impose one on anyone or on you. there are protesters boycotters, letter writers, movie makers etc etc all with slightly differing ideas about how things should be done. the problem is that whether or not we are mind-melding on one idea or have many different ones....within the current system we are powerless to change anything...that's why we are going outside the system.
much obliged, on behalf of all involved.
how? ideas? I am interested!
Bless you annie. We need more of you, in every city. I think you are the first hard-core occupier who has actually asked for input from the people who aren't there. That is an important 'how'.
The occupiers need to get out of their echo chamber and actively seek input from the people who aren't at the site, who come once, and don't go back, and be willing to learn and adjust course.