Forum Post: The Narcisistic and the Anti-Social are Among Us
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 16, 2011, 1:46 a.m. EST by GypsyKing
(8708)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
One of the great advances in psychology in modern times is the recognition of narcisistic and anti-social personality disorder. The knowledge that there are people among us who, sadly, lack the ability to empathise, is something that everyone should be aware of. It goes a long way towards explaining the predicament of mankind. Also, sadly, these people are now over-represented on this forum because they serve a function.
These people are truely frightening to the majority of us, and for good reason. That is the basis of much of their power. It is a serious question to ponder, with no easy solution, but an awareness of the fact is essential when trying to make sense of what is going on here, and in the world . . .
Absolutely, we have sociopathic (ASPD) posters here. One can tell by their arrogance and thinking patterns (though it would take many pages to describe such patterns).
Anyway, all activists need to educate themselves regarding sociopaths. Quoting myself, "Activists should always worry about sociopathic agent provocateurs — it is a perfect match of talent to task."
"Psychopath earns his keep, Shahed Hussain cons jury as well as Newburgh mugs" http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/psychopath-earns-his-keep-shahed-hussain-cons-jury-as-well-as-newburgh-mugs/
"Prominent Austin Activist Admits He Infiltrated RNC Protest Groups as FBI Informant" http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/items-of-interest-some-recent-some-not-so-some-that-suggest-possible-sociopathy-some-that-scream-it/
Incidentally, I volunteer my services to keep sociopaths off juries for any OWS members facing jury trials (which they should insist on, if they're tried).
Please read the book entitled "The Undiscovered Self" written by Carl Young. It will explain a lot about what you are talking about.
I have, thanks.
Someone recently pointed this article in Scientific American out to me I knew about this because persons born breech tend to have this "disorder":
Schizotypal personality is a milder version of the clinical psychiatric condition called schizotypal personality disorder, which is among a cluster of personality disorders labeled “odd or eccentric” in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The schizotypal diagnosis grew out of large epidemiological studies in which researchers noticed that the relatives of individuals diagnosed with schizophrenia were more likely to exhibit odd behaviors and beliefs than relatives of those not afflicted with schizophrenia. Schizotypal people, for instance, may dress in an idiosyncratic style; their speech patterns may be somewhat out of the ordinary; they may respond ineptly in social situations; their emotional responses may be inappropriate; they may believe in supernatural phenomena such as telepathy and omens; and they may be hard to get close to—both physically and emotionally. In short, schizotypal individuals are eccentric.
Not all schizotypal people have a personality disorder, however. They are often very high functioning, talented and intelligent. Many of my students at Harvard University, for example, score far above average on schizotypal scales, as well as on creativity and intelligence measures.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-unleashed-mind&page=1
http://666ismoney.com/BreechBirth.html
One of my sister's friends at the University of Illinois got an advanced degree in Empathy (really)!
I think people who lack empathy and compassion live with a lot of fear. Fear about what they will lose. They also haven't experienced unconditional love. They don't know what it is so they just can't comprehend caring about someone else when there is nothing in it for them. We need to be patient with them.
Very good analysis of the problem; and yes, we must be patient with them, but not to the degree that we allow them to destroy the world out of their own lack of caring for other people or living things.
I agree. We must keep on fighting for what is right even if they continue to curse us out.
Someone once said that - "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men {and I take this to mean mankind} to do nothing."
Exactly. MLK said something similar. That's why I stay on here. I'm not moving to another forum. This is the OWS forum and this movement is standing up to evil. (Here on the forum, instead of police dragging us and pepper-spraying us we get cursed at by right-wingers.)
Yeah, that's why I'm back here too.
I was thinking maybe we should try and welcome more people to the forum. There's probably a lot of OWS supporters reading these threads and itching to participate but they're freaked out by all the negativity.
That's a good idea. I will do my best to make this forum the authentic word of Occupy, and not just a place for slimy trolls.
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You can tell who they are by the insults and name calling they feel a need to resort to.
There is a book by Carl Young entitled "The Undiscovered Self". In this book, which is very thin and doesn't take long to read, he describes German society during the second world war. He discusses the cognitive dissonance of those who went out and rounded up Jewish people to be sent to the concentration camps and then went home to eat dinner with their families as if nothing special happened that day. He stated that there are about 70% of the population that have what he called "latent psychosis" where in times of low stress they are seemingly normal people but in times of high stress in society they grow more psychotic. I think this is what is beginning to happen in our entire world today. The collective psychosis is emerging rapidly.
Stress, I'm sure, brings this out in people and the counter to that is self-understanding, and grounding in some spiritual connection. The higher mind has to integrate with the more "primative" emotional mind. The truth is that these parts of ourselves are to some degree divided, and it takes a conscious effort at integration to become "whole."
It has been a drive towards this understanding that I think resulted in the whole field of psychoanalysis. Some part of the cause of this divide is just a fact of human biology, and another is of socialization. I think a percentage of people never really make it through their teenage years with a healthy since of themselves in tact.
But I am really reaching here. The point of my post was esssentially that certain people are more capable of coming into positions of power due to the "advantage" of a lack of conscience, a willingness to do whatever it takes to realize that position and also to maintain it.
It is stress. You make people live in the economic conditions that are so bad everywhere today and that is what you get. Esp. when you get the NeoCons to choke off jobs, start wars and not give people out of work any choice but to join the military. And then these brave people come back from those wars with post-traumatic stress and that only makes for a very uneasy society.
Well, you took the words right out of my mouth there. What can I say but that I agree totally. This is how these disorders on the individual level, of those who push their way into power over others who don't understand their mental disorder, transfer that disorder to society itself.
It is stress , fear, depression, everything. It is all driven by darkness, gloom, negativity, etc. This energy always draws more of it. Then you get positive and get shafted by someone, and you cycle back. It weakens people and they lose who they are and anger takes over. If you let it hurt, it breeds these disorders, which themselves are curable without drugs, etc. It is the culture. Look at anorexia, no matter what because a girl sees herself as fat (compares herself to a model) she is never happy, starves, punishes herself with guilt, never happy, etc. To others she is too skinny. Self image is a powerful projection. It provokes and perpetuates the disorder. Same for drugs, alcohol, you name it. Society judges people, either through us or through the media. Weak minded often fall victim. The culture that exists came from the media, TV, movies, Magazines all of it. Throw away all the propaganda and you are left with just you and me, all of us. Each other.
TV shows like survivor, American IDOL etc, give the power of "judgement" to the public as an outlet. We need to stop this judging, and work together. Turn off the TV - it is toxic, or realize it is toxic, don't attach emotionally.
Guilt is the hell, or the prison in which we punish ourselves. No more guilt, ego or belief systems and bias. The time has come we are all one as humanity. No skin color, no barriers. As one letting go we can win this fight without violence.
Man, I loved this comment. It's so heartening to see that there are people out there who really get it. Thanks.
It is real disheartening that the majority fails to see through the darkness like you and I, and lets it control them. People need a punching bag so I give it like it is. Many on here attack me, I attack nobody only exploit the darkness wherever it manifests. If they attack me they attack themselves. This is my mission. When my soul returns to the source upon my death, I may move to level 2 next time around. People have more power in the mind then they realize. I will awaken as many as I can, I am glad to see you keep an open mind. That is one of the keys of true freedom.
An open, flexible mind, is the key to real freedom. Thanks.
No judgment, or bias on people, just issues - do not take absolute sides as this leaves no room for flexibility - no party allegiance - no prejudice - no color/ethnic race - we are the human race - our cultural and ethnic differences make us unique; when we unite on common ground only then we will prevail. Subtly judge within and decide through your actions. Hurt nobody; give advice and let them learn on their own if the blinders remain. We can help each other. It is ourselves that must find the truth with information available. Then with knowledge, the truth will further set you free. Good luck to you.
Good luck to you too, and to all of us.
We ALL need it, thank you my friend.
I agree with your post, GypsyKing, but don't think you can do much about the typical OWS's lack of empathy toward the 1%. That OWS's are now over-represented on this forum is hardly surprising. To the best of my knowledge, they always have been.
The OWS is over-represented on the OWS forum?
And in truth, I think a lot of OWSers do have sympathy for the 1%. I do. I pity people who are so afraid of/incapable of empathizing with other people. People aren't as bad as they think. It's just their execssive wealth that makes them fear so much. Sad.
We need the 1%, to keep going - however they are pushing all of the upper 99% down. They control us bottom line, the darkness through greed and corruption is running the show. It is obvious. The rest are under its spell, and many are under the influence of the Stockholm Syndrome. They feel empathy toward the 1%, and support their causes. This leads to surrender of more freedom, and would try to convince us to join them. I am a minority on this Earth (Garden of Eden). Harvest time is just around the corner. I will not sell my soul to their cause. It is difficult, but I will be free no matter how painful it becomes. I sometimes wish that when I died for those 7 minutes, I took the "blue"pill instead of the "red" Yes I died and was given a new perspective. I am for truth, and will do my best to expose the darkness. Good luck to you all, and I love all of you.
Do you mean Carl Jung? Did you even read the book? You don't even know the author's name.
Indeed. You can see how the conspiracy theorist become like psycho's when they are stressed.
Sorry about the mistake. Yes I did read the book but it was a long while ago. I also read Memories, Dreams, and Reflections.
Sorry for pushing your button there friend and thanks for correcting me.
nice post.
Thanks. I think it is very relevent to the whole "mood of gloom" that has come over the world. It is like an actual force of evil, that every good intention is thwarted by - we know not what. Well, this is WHAT. It is an aspect of us all, but often those who have it to a level of actual insanity are the ones with the highest drive, and least scruples, and therefore they come to power.
Please provide specifics. Such nebulous broad-brush claims serve to do little but to stir up mistrust. If you see such behavior manifested here, why not address it directly? BTW, one person's "breakthrough in modern psychology" is to another person an irrelevant fad.
I never said I saw it manifested on this forum, specifically. Others have made that claim, and in some cases I tend to agree with them. Anyone who has been involved on this forum knows who those people are, and I have no need to provide specifics.
I've been involved on this forum, and have no idea at whom you have aimed your psychobabble.
You don't need to understand, those with sufficient intelligence will. One thing, however. I want to point out that these people spreading anti-semitism are division trolls, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of those of us genuinely involved in this movement.
Oh, so you are tolling. I see.
Yes, most OWSers are antisocial and narcissistic. Look at the rapes, murders, and assaults committed in large and increasing numbers at all the illegal encampments.
Well, guys like you are good at that stuff, and unfortunately you can't be known just from a quick look at you. That is how you get into the camps and perpetrate these atrocities. What I can't understand (wink) is why the police don't stop it.
Welcome to the USA.
I think the USA needs to grow beyond this way of viewing the world. It's incredibly destructive.
We wont. When you have "We're #1" shoved in your face since birth- its pretty powerful branding.
Maybe, but it simply doesn't any longer stand up to reality. On the other hand, I've known a lot of people who don't let reality stand up to their preconceptions, so maybe you're right.
Excuse my pedantry, but there are eight references to narcisistic in this post yet no such word exist. Don't short the narcissistic of his s's.
Sorry, I wouldn't want to short the narcissistic of their s's.
I find this thread disturbing, being a lot of the mental health problems in our country are results off emotional and physical abuses caused by the sane.
"The knowledge that there are people among us who, sadly, lack the ability to empathize, is something that everyone should be aware of."
The true awareness needs to be the cause. This thread is in no way welcoming to anyone with mental health issues.
There are a great number of mental health issues. I am reffering to two specifc ones, which are in some ways encouraged by our culture of "independent, individualistic, self-reliance." The line between self-reliance, selfishness, and outright narcisism is a fine one and perhaps a slippery slope. But the overall question of mental illness is much more broad, and I'm not intending to address that here.
Altruism, Patriotism, The Golden Rule: ideals most Occupiers strive to embody, so let's keep those values in our hearts and minds and attempt advancing those ideals.
You got it.
By "Narcisistic and the Anti-Social", you must be referring to Thrasymaque and GirlFriday, respectively.
You forgot me although you can save the respect. I'll drink out of your glass when your not looking, as long as I'm shedding.
I would describe you as merely off-kilter.
Good, let's go have drinks and I really did burn my lip smoking crack. It's not herpes. Cool, Breauseph?
What are you getting at?
This is an issue of increasing relevence to this forum. Please think deeply about the intent of those posting, and not simply about the message itself.
What worries me the most is they are running the country.
They seem to gradually take over every society because their lack of normal inhibitions allows them to do things that sane people wouldn't even contemplate, to further their power and influence. In many ways the sane are at a dangerous disadvantage here, and we need to wake up and realize that fact.
World peace is upon us. You have been warned.
Orwell would just love that nonsequitor. It is called congnative dissonance. A great example of this is that all our lives we have been told America is the wealthiest country in the world, and at the same time we have been told there isn't any money for anything. If they can get you to hold both those ideas in your head at the same time then they have won. You will never be able to think clearly on the subject again.
OWS is for crybabies and losers. Occupy a job somewhere. Get a haircut, take a shower and get a fukken job.
If occupiers can be characterized as crybabies, then American culture can be characterized as the world's chief war monger. Were I to stand before my Creator to answer for my crimes, I think I'd prefer to cry that boast of my bloody exploits upon the globe.
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Case in point.
This is important because sociopathy is an advantage to someone in a position to become a predator, like someone who works his way up the organization to become a CEO. While there are exceptions, as a class they are predators.
In a competetive environment those without the ability to empathise have an advantage, because they are willing to do things to advance themselves that the majority would consider beyond the pail of acceptable behavior.
This is especially true when the limits (laws, norms, etc.) that rein in the excesses of those in power have been weakened and frayed.
That's right. Without imposed limits, these types of personalities have an even greater advantage due to the simple fact that they have no internal prohibitions.
Read, "The Sociopath Next Door," by Martha Stout.
Pathocrats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91wuk_mWEYQ&feature=share
Activist speaks about psychopathy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx1i_Fzrd3o&feature=share
Thanks for these excellent links.
Absolutely! They are wrecking this world.
I agree. Its letting the foxes into the hen house.
I met someone with Narcisistic Personality Disorder once.
No surprises, he was a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist and a successful businessman.
Promised me decent, sustainable employment and a solid partnership, then ripped me off for $10K+.
Live and learn.
I know. Most of us just can't concieve of people getting together to conspire on how to rip-off returing Iraq war veterans of their medical benefits. But there are people who will do it. There are people who will do worse. Strange to say, even though we know this objectively, it's still really hard to wrap your head around it - it's just so . . . anti-social!
Whatever you want to call them...
Their reign shall soon end.
I hope so. I've been becoming increasingly convinced that what we must do in the short run is take back the Domocratic Party from the corrupt cronies who have taken it over. There are many very solid reasons for this thinking. Tell me what you think.
I think we should organize a Mass Exodus to the Green Party and vote Jill Stein in as the First Green, First Female, US President.
http://www.jillstein.org/
A very similar thing happened to me and another partner. The sociopath can appear to be so likeable, honorable and trustworthy most of the time but then eventually the truth of the 'telling' patterns comes out.
Live and learn indeed...
It will not make you feel better, but you could try empathizing with them. They must be frightened. I think this can happen to any one of us when our core beliefs are challenged. For some reason this movement truly frightens some people and threatens their very sense of self. Others seem to be acting by-proxy. As though they have caught the fear in the form of some mental contagion. And as for some other's.. well I think they are so completely identified with fear itself, that they are unsure they would exist were it not for that tight fist drawn down so deep in the belly, hardly leaving room for the shallowest of breath, let alone enough room to actually think straight. A most faithful companion, and the deadliest of allies.
I do empathize with these people; it's just that my emphathy is in their case particularly fruitless.
That's right, and most of them are repelican . . .
speaking of which,
Action Alert: Stop the End Run On The KeyStone XL PipeLine
Go away DNC butt boy.
I think we're all narcissists to varying degrees..
It's only when it starts to drag you down along with people that care about you that it should be regarded as a legitimate problem.
Maybe I'm thinking of Borderline Personality Disorder, but I've known a few people that have literally spent their whole lives just forging a path of emotional and financial destruction that effects everyone around them, I suspect to reaffirm a notion of self-worth that can only be measured during times of crisis. One thing I know from experience is that confronting them about it is probably the worst thing you can do.
Sometimes I think Narcissism is what Ayn Rand's followers and some Libertarians aspire to. They're never full-blown narcissists, but I think they're just tempted by the notion of a world where everyone is lonely and everyone is their own island.
Interesting points. I think we are all selfish to one degree or another, and yes, I think what you describe below sounds more like borderline, a disorder usually caused by abuse or neglect as a child. I have always felt very sorry for those afllicted with that.
Narcisism and anti-socal are different. A person can apprear quite rational on the surface, even function normally in society, but either are inable to care about anyone but themselves, or see other people, and living things as of no value. It isn't simple selfishness, but the complete inability to empathize - an inability to connect emtionally at all - even though these people are often good at pretending to do so, generally in mannipulative ways. They almost always leave a train of broken relationships and victims of one kind or another in the wake of their lives.
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I hadn't even heard of this issue concerning Sam Vaknin. Wow, when you start dealing with these personalities you really go on a weird circus ride. But somehow the vast majority of people; the ones that CAN empathise, must wake up to this issue and put a stop to these people seizing power through the sheer relentless exertion of their will.
Oh, you must be talking about the police force members. Bullies with boots.
More, primarily, the peole who control the police. Certainly there are a higher percentage of such people in the police force, but there are many in uniform that truly took the job for idealistic reasons, and I'm sure right now those contradictory motives are causing a lot of controversy and disagreement within the police forces in this country.
People who lack empathy are psychopaths. George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, bin laden and Saddam Hussein are prime examples of the psychopathic personality or PP. They have no conscience. If they had even an ounce of empathy they would not have committed the crimes against humanity that they did. People who gamble and work on Wall Street are PPs. Many CEOs are also PPs. The crooks from Enron are a good example. Bernard Ebbers of MCI WorldCom, now Verizon, is doing 25 years in prison right now for fraud. Another man without a conscience or empathy. A true psychopath. Many people look up to these PPs and emulate their behavior because if they can do what they did and get away with it then it must be okay.
Yes, this is central to what humans need to understand to protect themselves, and to form lasting free societies.
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Yes, on this forum it is essential to be aware of propaganda techniques, but we also need to be aware of the real underlying problem in our communities and in our families and in society. People with these disorders cause havoc far dispropportionate to their actual numbers.
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Fred Frisby is one of those "in our neighborhoods". http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/13/scott-walker-recall-intimidation_n_1145736.html
It's a complex problem that I don't think humanity has heretofore understood clearly, and that we have not yet really come to grips with on the level of family, community, or society.
I think the scariest book I have ever read was (and I may not have the title right word for word) "The Young Joseph Stalin." His combination of an intelligence off the charts, and his absolute lack of empathy for anyone - his unbelievable ruthlessness, made him a one man threat to global civilization. That book was a terrifying eye opener for me. Most people simply want to believe that other people are essentially decent, and for the most part they are right. But there are exceptions, and those "exceptional" people are at the root of a great many of our problems, and they exist across the entire political spectrum.
@LL those interested or so afflicted : http://watchdocumentary.com/watch/i-psychopath-video_b28f60185.html .
fiat lux et nosce te ipsum ...
Thanks shadz. All those capable of empathizing with our fellow human beings, and the other living things on this planet must come together now, and support one another.
U r wlcm GK. May The Heart-Centred Astral Entities join us soon in our struggle against The Sith !!
ut supra ut infra ...
Ditto!
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People who do not lack empathy and compassion are usually weak and go on to kill themselves.
Well, you certainly do live up to that enlightened user-name! Guess what, we're not afraid of you guys, in fact you're really just boring. You see, to others the anti-social are just boring because they have nothing positive to offer anyone; unless you have the bad fortune, or make the mistake of letting them into positions of power. You, sir, are just a bore.
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God's Chosen People? How more narcisistic can you get?
I don't think you can class an entire people in such a manner. That's called predjudice.
Valfather is right,a whole class of people who think they are God's chosen people and the rest of us soulless souls just here to labor for them. That to me is pretty damn narcissistic and anti-social
Once again, I would like to point out that this forum has been invaded by those of polar opposite sentiments to those genuinely involved in this movement. OWS is not anti-semitic, and if it were I would not be a member of this movement.
When they class themselves as such? Who is prejudiced?
We are descending into territory here that is aside from the point of this post. These personality disorders know no single race, group, class or clan. They cross all such boundries.
Some psychopathologies have genetic etiologies, some etiologies are congenital, some are due to the physical environment (e.g., exposure to chemical toxins), some derive from arbitrary psychological impacts (e.g., auto accidents, etc.), some are inflicted as part of family dysfunction (e.g., the theory of scripting in Transactional Analysis), and some are programmed by society.
This latter category I call mass psychosis of the body politic. It is this category which I am suggesting applies to a particular group who exalts themselves above the rest of humanity as "God's Chosen People". If this were some purely benevolent self-anointment, it would not be the insidious disease to which I refer.
But the malady in question is xenophobic and hostile to the balance of of humanity. It is therefore in need of remediation.
Chirp, chirp...
If you are a Nazi, Valfather, why not just have the guts to admit it?
Fuehrer worship makes me want to wretch!
I just had someone send me a great big swastika, so if that is true, you better watch the company you keep. I have had people here telling me that I am a Jew - not true - that I am a woman - not true - and that I am a communist - not true, etc., etc. It seems that common sense is now seen in America as some kind of radical aberration.
Hang in there, Gypsy King. I like all of your posts.
Thank you, really. Sometimes I think I am fighting an uphill battle on what is left of this forum. I have always though that we should either hold onto this forum or destroy it.
Let's hold on to it. Remember, these trolls are people. I've given this some thought and I really think the trolls are sad, mis-educated people that have been indoctrinated to fight for the interests of the 1% instead of their own interests. It's pathetic. I don't think we should give up. I think we should treat the trolls, maybe with less anger, and with more compassion (like you would treat your slow, inappropriate relative). Keep reminding them of how they are defending the interests of other people and how screwed up that is. And, also, how inappropriate their behavior and comments are. Don't take anything they say personally because they don't know you and their stupid comments only speak about them.
Thanks again. Your comments speak so clearly of the good people in the world, and of their knowledge of a higher order:)
Yours do too.
So you throw around epithets in kind? Psychobabble away.
You are babbling.
As you will. Speak that you might be seen.
More babbling.
lol Now we're Nazi's? How can I be a Nazi? Sure i'm a white guy but what has another white man ever done for me!? lol Nazi what a laugh. It's just like the catholic church in Europe a few centuries ago, if you apposed the Churches ideology you were branded heresy. We're heretics valfather destine to burn in the fires of Haiti's chuckles
I had a sense he was flailing abut in that direction. I'm glad I ferreted him out. A while back there was a news report about "antisemitism" in OWS. Strangely, all of the people railing against "the Jews" in the video clips looked like Mossad agents.
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I don't know; I have always found this to be a very interesting aspect of our humanity. It would seem that if it serves our purpose, human beings can justify anything. It may be "sociopathic" but it is decidedly not psychopathic if it is common to all.
The reality is that we all need someone to hate or we simply cannot survive.
I am not talking about something that's common to all. On the other hand, it is more common than we might think. These are very serious and destructive personality disorders, and perhaps the saddest thing is that they have absolutely no control over their condition. You simply can't plant the ability to love or empathize, or to have a parenting capacity into people, and some people just don't have them. These people are emotionally destructive because love is essential for healthy human development, and when these people are in positions of power the inability to love can destroy families, communities, and society.
It's a rather interesting phenomena. You are interpreting the lack of empathy as a propensity for violence; those that are unwilling to empathize are labeled as sociopaths. And I think there is something askew here.
Three hundred years ago, brutality and violence were integral to life; Freud had not been invented yet...
To empathize is to place oneself in another's shoes... but we only do this when there is a benefit to self; those with whom he empathize ("Look at those poor people") become a tool or a weapon which we aim at another.
Civility is a weapon that serves to maintain the political power structure; likewise it serves the poor in the protection from power that it affords. Rights are a negotiated item and empathy is but a tool.
Where are you going with this? With whom are we now expected to empathize?
"To empathize is to place oneself in another's shoes... but we only do this when there is a benefit to self; those with whom he empathize ("Look at those poor people") become a tool or a weapon which we aim at another. "
That isn't empathy. It's hypocrisy masquerading as empathy. True empathy springs from compassion. The recognition that we are all suffering beings prompts us to try to alleviate another creature's distress instead of turning away from it.
Actually it is empathy as defined by Freud.
All of these "feely" words are very poorly defined in the English language.
Be that as it may, compassion and empathy are, omg, two rather distinct words, and you must bear in mind that to empathize is not to offer aid. These are also two different words.
The suggestion of an enforced empathy is also hypocritical.
"You are interpreting the lack of empathy as a proprsity for violence; those that are unwilling to empathise are labeled sociopaths."
Actually, I didn't say either one of those things, so to respond to your question would be to accept your misrepresentation of what I said.
Well, I think you should respond...
"The knowledge that there are people among us who, sadly, lack the ability to empathise, is something that everyone should be aware of."
Where are you going with this?
Where I am going is - to promote an understanding of an existing, and more pervasive social phenomenon that most people are really aware of. Knowledge is power.
With whom should we empathize?
You seem to be missing the point of this entire dialogue, and there is no point in reitterating it, as you have it before your eyes.
True. It would seem to me, that we have enough of our own problems that we are incapable of addressing. This seems to be particularly true of those who insist that we empathize in an effort to promote the social justice agenda. (We can't solve our own problems, or theirs, so you have to). None of us are capable of carrying the whole world.
Not without the trillions hidden away in secret bank acounts by the corporate elite, anyway!
You're talking about people who have owned the world for two hundred years. And you think a couple million beggars is going to make a difference now?
yes
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Lack of ability to empathize isn't the only characteristic of narcissistic personality disorder, nor do all people who suffer from it have that specific trait.
Of course...thinking that you have the power/ability/expertise to recognize and accurately diagnose such a condition by reading posts in a forum....is narcissistic on it's own. :)
I'm not pointing my finger at specific individuals, although the tone of some of the posts here would lead me to suspect that. I'm just trying to throw light onto a phenomenon that people should be aware of.
People who are aware of the phenomenon, or who can be made aware of it, are not the problem. Your post is therefor a delicious irony.
Yes, but the whole point is that everybody else must become aware of them and not be fooled into believing they don't represent a serious danger to society, and here I don't just mean at the common criminal level, but within the larger institutions of society as well.
Dangerous narcissists are a fact of life and have been through the ages. Caesar. Napoleon. Attila. Hitler. Stalin. Robespierre. Mao Zedong.
There is an endless list of them. Informing the world that there are bad guys...and really, REALLY, bad guys out there isn't news to anyone.
Well, all those names you just mentioned are historical figures, just faces in a book to us now, almost abstractions. The point is that they are real and living among us, and dispropotionately represented in positions of power. That understanding was why our founders called for eternal vigilance as the price of liberty.
"Also, sadly, these people are now over-represented on this forum because they serve a function."
Say what?
I think that is self-explanatory. Think just a little about the quality of the narcisistic/anti-social personality and then read some of these troll posts.
You mean people like Loyd Blankfein, Dick Cheney, David Rockefeller or the Koch brothers?
Well I don't think the Koch brothers are psychopaths actually.
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So who do you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8
Here are the kings of inhumane values! They are the Lords of the Dirty Fucks!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-evildoers/
The Revolution starts here!
Actually I was told by an online test that I rank as more of a psychopath than the average liberal or conservative. Oh wait this is online too. Hmmmm
I suspect that people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder are far more common in politicians than in the general public. I suspect that Obama suffers from NPD, if not a more serious psychopathology. These individuals are often very charismatic and adept at manipulating people.
http://samvak.tripod.com/obama.html
I agree that in general those with the drive to become leaders are more prone to be narcisistic, or anti-social. That is why, as many people have pointed out, the first disqualification for any leader should be that they want the job in the first place.
On a larger level though, it is important to recognise the whole existance of the phenominon. Most people simply don't want to believe that human beings are capable of a certain degree of evil. They look within themselves, and don't see that abhorrant failing, and therefore cannot really believe it exists in others. That is a dangerous illusion and it is the reason, as the founders said, that eternal vigillance is the price of liberty.
Exactly! It took me nearly 50 years to recognize this. I can't say that I really comprehend it , but I now recognize what I didn't want to see. There really are many people that driven by psychological forces I can't relate to at all. I am sure there are politicians who are motivated by a desire to be of service to the country, but we must not be blind to the existence of those who are motivated by a lust for power over others. The facade can be very convincing.
Exactly. It is often the loudest, the most tenatious, the most relentless who win the battle for power. These are often the last people that any of us want, or need, in positions of power. And you are right that there are also those who are in power out of a desire to serve. It's just that those positions are often filled by a dispropportionate number of these people who have no scruples about doing anything to get into power, and who have no scruples as to how they use it.
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Well, you don't know me Mary. I'm just a stranger on the internet to you. All I can say is that you are very wrong about me. I care deeply about people, animals, the earth. It is because I care, that I will call out those who don't and I will do what I can, in my small way, to expose them.
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In my personal opinion the real powers in this country, exemplified by the likes of Dick Cheney, are more indicative of the anti-social personality than Obama. Obama simply is not enough of an insider to really direct policy. But that is beside the point of the larger issue I am trying to address. The whole phenomenon is, in my belief, not widely enough known or its implications widely enough appreciated.
What's this? 5 cent psychoanalysis?
How nice that you are centered and so wonderful that you can judge people. You must be a great intellect.
I'm not judging anyone. These personality disorders an just a fact of life, that most people aren't sufficiently aware of. If you want to know the truth, I have a grest deal of sympathy for people with these afflictions. Of course my sympathy avails them not, nor the other people that they affect.
You are absolutely right! There are people who sit around in a park and care not that someone has to work to pay for the space they occupy... Not to mention the girls who mind that one of the freaks occupies her vag without her consent, or pay the police officers to protect us from the hoodlums who occupy Seattle who throw bricks at them, or the deadbeats who go in and flashmob Target and Walmart and steal from the floor of the store as well as intimidating shoppers who need to get goods.
I can't believe these OWS freaks lack any empathy towards those of us that have to work to support ourselves.
Great post!
Well, the rich don't pay for it, so what do you care. In fact the rich are given tax refunds by the rest of us to reward them for being rich, and then they decry social problems. Besides, your simple vulgarity of mind isn't even worth the bother of reading.
Ya, I agree. Conspiracy theorist are everywhere on this site. Damned mentally ill illogical vagabonds... they should be rounded up in institutions for the insane. Deface their posts before the spread their malady upon more young innocent minds.
WHAT are you talking about? There have been NO great advances in the entire history of psychology.
That's why if you get a psychology degree, prepared to be unemployed.
If more OWS people realized that, there would be less unemployment.
No advances in psychology? You mean since yesterday? The advances have been astounding. Where have YOU been?
Psychology, social work and medicine are among the very few GROWING employment sectors.
I don't suggest you go into any of those fields, though. You would have to able to evaluate evidence and attempt to uncover truth to be effective, rather than operate form your own prejudices.
Better stick with trolling.
Can you believe some of these "answers?" No advances in psychology? Where do these guys get this sutff?
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Yes, our interests in life certainly do vary!
You are comparing psychology to medicine? Is this a joke? Might as well read tarot cards than "learn" psychology.
Shows how very little you know about the field. Your sweeping statement that there have been "NO" advances in psychology (since when, Freud?) is either intentional hyperbole of pure ignorance.
I suspect a lot of both.
Name me three important discoveries in psychology. I bet you can't.
Since when? Since yesterday or since 100 years ago?
Did I put a time limit? Nice stall tactic. 1000 years.
Unfortunately, it takes a fairly subtle mind to understand psychology and it's implications. Maybe not terribly subtle, but to some degree at least...
Or maybe psychology is all just BS. Sounds like it if no one can name even three important discoveries.
I wonder what I would "discover" in the heads of you trolls, a bunch of rocks, a ball off Jello, or just some strange, innert, unidentifiable mass?
Still don't hear a single discovery or important finding.
Uh . . . therapy, which I would recommend.
yep, that's about the extent to which a psychologist would contribute to society... "get therapy"
The Problems of society arise with the problems of the individual. Society is just a reflection of the individuals who comprise it. That is why this post is important - so that people can see the interconnectedness of the problem.