Forum Post: The Goal of this Movement
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 15, 2011, 2:31 a.m. EST by chrismoser
(55)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The primary goal of the Occupy Movement must be to create an enduring consciousness of the nature of labor demand and debt in a post-industrial civilization.
We must not manufacture artificial consensus regarding our 'demands'. Doing so is acquiescence to the demands of an antiquated communication system that we are fundamentally opposed to. In addition, it will limit the scope of our conceptualizations of the future.
The Industrial and Electronic Revolutions were supposed to free us from the bonds of work, and also from the bonds of poverty. The efficiency of our labor fused with our technology has been obscured by an antiquated economic system.
Our current economic system does not have the mechanisms in place to equitably distribute the fruit of our collective effort. In a just economic system, the lack of need for work should be a good thing. If wages were distributed in an equitable (though not necessarily equal) manner that reflected the abundance of resource and wealth in our world, we should have near 100% employment, almost no poverty, and 20 hour work weeks.
The goal of this movement should be to create awareness of the original implicit goals of the Industrial and Electronic Revolutions, to raise questions regarding the goals and values of Capitalism in its current form, and to create an enduring consciousness on the nature of debt and labor demand in a post-industrial society.
Our current system requires systemic change. In order to create the consciousness that makes systemic change possible, we must initiate a lasting and complex conversation. We must not give in to defining ourselves on the failed terms of the reductionist corporate media.
great, and let's start it off by doing this first: http://occupywallst.org/forum/lets-get-focused-and-bring-back-glass-steagall-act/
WOW WHy not just post the communist manifesto?
There are excellent inputs here - generally I am in line with those that emphasize 'consciousness raising' as the priority. Even while I suspect eventually it may be fruitful to pull summarized views into more formalized statements, I'm not sure specific changes need to be tightly detailed.
One would hope legislators would develop enough of an 'aha' to use their considerable experience and 'expertise' to shape the proposals themselves! (Maybe I'm not keeping roles in their proper slots in this thought - but surely they need to do some of the head-work themselves?)
I do have one 'overall success' concern. First, let me say I'm a super-enthusiast to the consensus process, and the intention behind it. In fact, I've been promoting consensus models for several years. There are many variations, but the most 'open to everyone' types are my favorite. I won't list all the 'deep change' I believe they can bring in human community, but want to emphasize what they can mean to individuals who have opportunity to participate in an open-to-everyone consensus process.
And this also brings me to my concern. One deep individual experience in the wide-open consensus model is hearing ones own voice 'come alive', and finding that ones own thoughts valued in the larger community. I'm not sure we (all of us) are yet fully aware of all the factors, from birth onwards, that contribute to greater or less personal confidence. Without personal confidence, talent and interest inherent in unique personality may not thrive, may not be developed, may not be 'returned in full gift' to community.
For me, the issue of 'individual psychological development', (and relative confidence or lack of same), must be understood at least to some degree, or any movement, no matter how sincere, is 'ripe' to 'lapse over time' into hierarchical structure. Simply put - if 'confidence' is not nurtured, some will remain silent. (I'm not speaking of confident people who choose to observe, remain more quiet - but of those who have no idea how to assert themselves yet are 'restless' to do so.) If some (restlessly) remain silent, others may 'assume' their silence is a choice made in confidence. Over time, those more comfortable asserting thoughts, giving voice, will become 'spokespeople', will become 'recognized leaders' - it will simply be more efficient!
I'm also not saying that there should not be people who 'lead'. There will always be individuals whose interest and talent is such that they are great 'spokespeople'! My concern is "20 years down the road".
I've long held that we humans need to understand what common innate traits we share that prompt us to empathy, generosity, community, or aggression, angry independence, and 'power-over' behaviors. Each of us carries these traits, these potentials. If we're not aware of them as 'normal' (in need of acceptance but also in need of monitoring and discipline), our 'vulnerabilities' (also inborn) will 'push' us toward emphasis on self-interest, without the balancing commitment to temper our choices on behalf of others.
I'm not suggesting a great big project of 'studying the essence of humanity' needs to be a part of this movement. There's plenty of effort required already, and it's (IMO) headed in a very sound direction - a direction I've perhaps spent a lifetime waiting for!
But I've spent quite a bit of my life (retired) examining 'who we humans are' to sort out what it is we experience as individuals, and what it is we experience in common. "Felt vulnerability" seems to me to be unavoidable, and from my p.o.v. explains most of human history, including hierarchy, wars, commandeering resources, etc. An obvious balancing antidote is that we "look out for one another" - not only in terms of essential resources being generally accessible, but also in terms of deeply valuing one another's "innate urge" to "realize talent and interest". This means "inviting" (even actively encouraging) one another, especially those who may be 'hanging back'. It also means welcoming one another (as - for instance - the movement continues to do with regards to the police and others who outwardly appear 'on the other side'.)
I apologize if this post is akin to opening a closet door that would best for now remain closed, but it's on my mind. I truly want this movement to work not only to resolve present misery, but to shift us so radically that the unfolding 21stC is like nothing human civilization has previously demonstrated.
My full support is with the effort!
Amen.
'...to create awareness..." '...to create an enduring consciousness...' '...initiate a lasting and complex conversation.' 'We must not give in to defining ourselves..." "We must not manufacture artificial consensus..."
(sorry to clip your comments but these words really stood out)
Thank you! Help spread this ethos: please re-post the URL for this thread in other forums discussing our goals.
haha I'm too busy discussing my own. But keep doing what you're doing. The more people with integrity here will help create awareness and an enduring consciousness that brings a society that serves the 99%!
chrismoser, this one of the best posts I have seen here...
Chris, addresses new opportunities sitting and waiting for us to benefit from....
Let's let go of old theory's ... they are fantastic for identifying the problems but they fall short for identifying the modern solutions promised ahead... We can discover and build a new more modern system that addresses all the dreams and ideologies....
thanks... keep it coming.. ;)
Thank you. I'm glad you share the deep understanding of our necessary purpose.
In order to have a conversation as eloquent as this, we need to have representation that represents us.
End Money Dictating Policy.
Make our individual voices equal to the 1%. Then we can get to the real work.
To take something away from someone else - to profit by another's loss - is more unnatural than death, or destitution, or pain, or any other physical or external blow. To begin with, this strike at the roots of human society and fellowship. For if we each of us propose to rob or injure one another for our personal gain, then we are clearly going to demolish what is more emphatically nature's creation than anything else in the whole world; namely, the link that unites every human being with every other...Nature's law promotes and coincides with the common interest...If people claim that they have no intention of robbing their parents or brothers for their own gain, but that robbing their compatriots is a different matter, they are not talking sense.
Thanks for posting. Everyone needs to support the occupation movement and its artists! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reazEr_AIBk
One galvanized message should be the stance of Occupy Wall Street. It plain and simple. When everyone realizes that human behavior drives economics that we have a lot more power than you think.
The message is simple. We will start boycotting EVERY company who is showing enormous profits and not re-investing those profits into creating jobs. We will boycott EVERY bank who is not lending money for mortgages and job expansion.
And instead of just saying it, we do it and hold to our guns, we literally can take down these greedy 1% who think they have us by the balls.
Remember, there are a lot more of us in numbers then there are of them.
When WE THE PEOPLE stand up and take a stance and start boycotting these companies and banks, THEY WILL LISTEN!
REMEMBER... Action speaks louder than words!
Get this message out, and act on it and WE TAKE control once and for all!
I know videos are always the best way to express views, but since I'm such a bad writer I find them useful. I just re-watched Richard Wolff's (economist) video documentary and I was captivated by his comments AFTER the film on 1) China and 2) home mortgages "today". It's not what you would expect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HTkEBIoxBA
true. our society is excessively complicated and unsustainable and most of it has to do with printed (and now digital) money, which really holds no value its self, but it is used to control people and resources, and we seem to have no idea how to live without it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
i got hit by a troll, after i posted my sign, and right before i'm heading back to downtown LA. Kinda got to me, let me know if you dig this video? It's the best way I can fight, with music.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVL05HqFqIY
Very nice. Keep up the good work.
For all the videos with LOAD music take note. I hate all the videos with screaming and techno music in the background. I think the videos are counter productive and if they have a message it always get lost on me.
Now you can see why many people condiser most of those associated with OccupyWallstreet lazy communists who DON'T WANT TO WORK...
Quote:
Excuse me, but what is wrong with not wanting to spend your life working for the sake of working? Our society today holds work in such high regard....please...think for yourself about this for a moment....WHY? I am certainly NOT saying that anyone should be able to sit back and get things for free off the backs of others. What I am saying is that, if we have enough, enough food, enough shelter, enough people to do the work that needs to be done, why shouldn't we be able to make use of this? Why is it such a horrible thing to propose that everyone could plausibly work a little less and actually have some time to spend living their lives of their own accord? Why are we so intent on "creating jobs?" Wouldn't it be an aspect of capitalism itself, that if there is no more demand for jobs, that we should not artificially try to create that demand?
What is the point of working your ass off 80 hours a week while your neighbor starves? No one lives a good life in that scenario....the worker has no life to speak of, he gives all of his time and energy to make money, and the other cannot get any joy out of life either as he has no means by which to live on! Unless you are completely intent on trying to hoard as much junk and or money for yourself, without having any time or capacity to gain joy from that junk, why can't the labor required be divided in such a way to where everyone works, but everyone can work, but a little less, thus getting the time and energy to live their life!?
I absolutely am not advocating for anyone to live for free off the backs of others. Just for people to actually make use of all of the technology we have in the modern world that make it possible to not have to work as much as people once had to.
Why is it communistic to want to have some of your life as your own, instead of spending every waking minute and all energy in the pursuit of acquiring more money???? Please, if I am missing something here, discuss! I am open to hearing new ideas, and if it turns out that I am wrong, then I will consider a different solution. But honestly think about it for a minute...why does our society value "work" in such high regard?
Some extent of work is good and necessary, it allows us to do things like eat and have shelter, and have some pleasures in life. Let's look at the invention of the dishwasher. When this item was invented, it allowed for housewives to not have to spend as much time washing dishes. What was the result of that? They had more time to do other things like spend time with their families, or read a book. They did not consider it to be a bad thing that stole work away from them.
This is already a little too TL:DR....but I am honestly trying to figure out why people think this way nowadays. You really ought to read the essay by Bertrand Russell, "In Praise of Idleness." Read it and think about it, and for just a moment try to suspend the belief that work in and of itself is virtuous. And then come back and tell me why I'm a lazy communist (!?!?!?)
For someone calling themself "NeoEconomist" , you really don't get it.
Yes, make a note of that and we'll get to it right after we get corporate money out of politics and limit corporate influence over government.
We must facilitate the enduring consciousness that we have reached a turning point in human history. We must facilitate a widespread re-conceptualization of work. This consciousness, combined with a refusal to give in to the demands of the corporate media will lead to systemic change.
Thank you for posting this!!! It's perfect!
God bless you brother,
Keep it simple, and you will get a lot further, and a lot faster.
Best wishes,
The Boogieman
Best wishes to you as well. We are all in this together.
celestane prophocy the 9 insights