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Forum Post: The Country Mourns for the Children Killed in Conneticut

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 14, 2012, 4:43 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

but there's no broken hearts for the innocent men, women, and children that have been killed by guns and bombs overseas.

What percentage of civilians have to die in a drone strike before it's called murder? Is 98% not high enough?

If the shooter today had killed 2 terrorists along with everyone else, would the children killed just be called casualties?

Drone strikes kill, maim and traumatize too many civilians, U.S. study says - http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes/index.html

79 Comments

79 Comments


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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

My heart breaks for the small victims of today's heinous crime, but I thought the same thing, trevor. I saw Obama's tears earlier and couldn't help but wonder if he cries about the hundreds of innocent children killed by U.S. drone attacks too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8695679/168-children-killed-in-drone-strikes-in-Pakistan-since-start-of-campaign.html

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yup. Good question.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

BINGO. Some people say we shouldn't politicize this tragedy but that's BS. How can we not? Everyone need HC which includes care for mental health. As you point out people have a right to exist without having to worry about Americans trying to take control of their resources while killing innocents along the way.

[-] -2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

the only people saying that are right wing libertarian assholes.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Exactly and if so - why the continuation of drone indiscriminate killing. What about those homes families children? What makes it OK over there but a tragedy over here?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Drone strikes are horrible planetary level gun violence. Our efforts to protest all pols and the underlining, enabling, fear mongering propaganda is critical.

If we are insensitive to the drone strikes it is the same reason we are insensitive to the gun violence we are subjected to.

In fact if we can raise the outrage of these local gun tragedies it will be a step towards awakening outrage at the separate drone tragedy, & therefore eliminating the drone strikes.

It may be a reach but the truth is we ought deal with these 2 issues separately. They are important enough, and we shouldn't minimize either by opportunistically exploiting this tragedy to divert attention back our choice issues.

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[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Good post.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Lanza was developmentally disabled. We still don't know many details but how did he manage to get guns?

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

his mother owned them what is to know? he killed her and used them to massacre a whole classroom of kindergarteners. ban semiautomatic weapons if she did not own them the carnage would not have been as horrific. period.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

She (RIP) should not have had any gun in her house & accessible at all if she knew he was unstable.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

just going to take a stab at it and suggest that at a minimum he perceived that his mother probably cared more about the kindergarteners than her own son. just making this assumption based on the days events. what else would compel him to shoot up her classroom?

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

Let's not blame the mother. We are probably going to find out that this guy had schizophrenia and because he is over 18 there is not a lot parents can do. We need to change the laws concerning mental health and privacy.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

She knew of his mental problems, She allowed him to know about her guns, She made them accessible, She took him to the shooting range.

She was clearly an irresponsible gun owner. And guess what? The father and 24 year old brother who did not live there and claimed to not have had contact with the brother (shooter) are responsible as well.

Even the other family members who knew these facts must be questioned and held responsible.

Sorry. We can't sit off to the side if we knew of these risks.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

I didn't know these facts when I made that comment. She definitely had culpability now that we know all of that. In fact, I don't think anyone should own guns! How about that! I think guns are an ugly evil that bring no beauty to the world.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

My heart is broken, with every story of a teacher who lunged at the shooter to protect their kids.

I am disgusted when people defend gunrights and sit silent about gun victims. Some even distract from these innocent victims to bring attention to there unrelated favorite issues.

We gotta stay focused if we are to succeed at minimizing these horrible mass murders.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

Eliminate all guns. Period. Create a love-based society, not a fear-based one. End this insanity! We're supposed to be evolving as human beings but instead we regress.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Many of us. It is true. I live in dangerous brooklyn NY. never had a gun, had a gun pulled on mr, & other violent experiences in my 5 decades but still the people I know & the majority of ny'rs KNOW guns are not necessary in a civil society.

It's old paranoid wackiness that still adheres to this violent aspect of our past. What kinda heartless people can't get beyond this useless violent ideology.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i always blame parents because they are responsible for how their children turn out to a degree for sure.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

I know what you are saying and I think many parents do a terrible job of raising their kids, mostly because it is a vicious circle, they were raised badly and have no idea how to do it well. But, I don't blame parents if their adult child has schizophrenia. I blame the laws that legally prevent them from helping an adult child who refuses to go for help.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

that shit is a cop-out. my parents sucked. they loved me but they sucked. in no way will i suck like they did. most parents are selfish self centered assholes more concerned with what they can brag to their friends about their kids than the actual state of their kids.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

Sorry about your folks. I said I agree that a lot of parents do a terrible job. Best thing to do is learn from your parents mistakes like you did, but not everyone can do that. In fact, most don't, they just make the same or other mistakes.

I stand by what I say with regard to mental health issues. There should be laws in place where relatives/employers can force a person to get help, or at least be evaluated, before tragedy occurs.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

there are. you can commit someone for 72 hours for observation.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

I don't know if that is true in every state, but that is a good start if it is true. I'd say if this guy was never committed by his parents and they had that as an option, then they have culpability.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Schizo... is a medical condition not created by poor upbringing. Chemical, physical issues perhaps but not the parents fault. In this case I'm not clear of the details of shooters mental problem.

but the mom knew, and she should not have had guns accessible.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

good guess. clearly a mentally unstable individual. He should not have had access to guns.

The mother (RIP) shares responsibility. People who know mentally unstable people have to be held accountable.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

That's why I asked.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

She (RIP) should not have had any gun in her house & accessible at all if she knew he was unstable.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

They went beyond a free pass. They've suppressed information that could be used to bring up charges.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

You occupy logic so thanks for your very important post & http://www.nationofchange.org/five-lies-gun-lobby-tells-you-1355582027 . Never Give Up Being Morally Cogent! Occupy Joined Up Thinking!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Thanks for the kind words!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

"Big Money, ALEC and The Gun Agenda", by Lisa Graves : http://truth-out.org/news/item/13364-big-money-alec-and-the-gun-agenda & thanx from me too for your excellent post and thread Trev :-)

et e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

'Guns In America: Musings On Our National Psychosis' - http://www.nationofchange.org/guns-america-musings-our-national-psychosis-1355674607 , which ends with - 'extremism is nothing new in this country. Just ask the victims of gun crimes.' Thanks again for your post and after reading shadz66's link, I shook my head sadly and then got angry. Never Give Up Joining Up The Dots! Occupy Outrage!

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Won't somebody take a rock or a bottle and end this thing...!

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

In compliment to this post ( taken from another post )

Empathy

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

that was a great video. Empathy is definitely an integral role in society.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It was a very good intro at how one can look at the world.

Empathy = understanding self understanding other ( simple and not quite complete but a truth ).

To Realize that - yep - for really real - other people are no different then yourself. Other then for location and experiences.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I still remember the day I realized my mom was her own person, and not just my mom. Changed everything.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

How old - do you remember?

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Honestly, about 18.

I knew that she worked hard for us kids while I was younger, but she was still just mom to me. It's hard to explain. But maybe you know what I'm trying to say.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure - this is a person who is a part of my life - but - then - wow - she has thoughts and dreams and questions and stuff - - - of Her Own - - - damn why didn't I have this understanding before this very moment? Did I just accept her presence - because she has always been there? But how come she is suddenly more real to me in this moment?

It is funny what will strike a chord spur a thought - because of course you knew she was an individual - but at that very moment it hit you between the eyes and you fully considered it.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

exactly!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Was it a powerful moment? Stupid question - I know. But it did feel like a strong moment of extraordinary clarity. I wonder what triggered your moment of awareness.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I think most of us reach this clarity at some point and that it has a lot to do with our own level of autonomy and life experiences. There's a point where our roles in life change and so our perception of our parents' roles change as well. Additionally, parents who raise their children to be free-thinking individuals will mature more rapidly and reach this clarity sooner than those who are raised in an over-nurturing or dictator style family.
I heard something about how Lanz's (sp?) mother was a bit over-bearing and very hard on her son. It seems that perhaps she may have (unintentionally) caused him to feel inferior and powerless and perhaps he was jealous of her 'wonderful' students. It's all so sad.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Very sad tragedy. People loved her as was stated on the air/tv by stunned residents as the interviewers .... well did their assignment. It is funny/sad that a person thought well of by the community - can be a different individual all together in private.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

In reality, it's always that way. I mean that people tend to ignore the dysfunctional aspects of people they know as they don't want to really get involved. People also don't want to admit that they knew something was abnormal because then they feel sort of responsible for not doing something or saying something. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever say on TV ( after a shooting or other crime) that they knew their neighbor or friend was a nutjob. They always say something really nice about the person. " So sweet, attended church every sunday, smiled for every photo"...yeah, we all look so happy and normal in photos don't we? In my personal assessment of Mrs. Lanzo or whatever her name was, I find it a bit nutty and dysfunctional that she would need and want to purchase the three guns that she did. Why? One was not enough? I don't think I would want my child to be in her class and I know that sounds harsh and judgmental but she obviously had an affinity for lethal weapons.
I know it's difficult for many children who have parents who are teachers in their own school system. I remember well, classmates whose parents taught in my HS and they had some issues. I wouldn't say they were violent but they did act out in a attempt to feel like a normal kid. I think it's like being the kid of a celebrity figure. It's tough.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yeah - exactly - what is up with her in that idyllic small town where everyone knows everyone and where people feel that life/community just couldn't be better?

Why - why the need - for a kindergarten teacher to feel the need to have two semi auto hand guns and an assault rifle?

Ummm is it perhaps a community ordinance ( not talked about ) to carry/keep weapons for community defense? Is that why they all feel so safe? ( not a serious question or theory - just a statement of disbelief - for why a single(?) mom/kindergarten/teacher felt a need to be so armed )

I wonder - about your last comment = kids of teachers. What does it say about his relationship with his mom/teacher that he kills her and then goes and shoots the kids she spent most(?) of her time with?

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

One of the parents of the town did mention ( with trepidation) that the mother was a bit demanding of the kid and her comments were not as friendly as others. However, it's impossible to know the facts. Given that most of the children killed were his mother's students, it seems a bit too likely that he was attempting to harm those who either directly or inadvertently hurt him in his life. The mother may have seemed to care more about her students than her own son, who knows? The mother may have compared him to her 'wonderful and bright' students all the time. Both of those things would definitely stir rage from shame, hurt and insult. But, we'll have to wait and see. I wonder why no one reports about the brother who was being questioned. Also, did you notice that the police hand cuffed him? Why in the hell did they do that if he wasn't under arrest or under suspicion and the other really bizaare thing: Why did the brother not call the police when he heard the news of the shooting and then tell them that he was not the shooter? He apparently just went on Facebook and told everyone he was innocent on there. WEIRD.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Very strange what people "will" and "will Not" do to address a recognized threat in the family or to alert the community/authorities when that individual goes ballistic. All I can think right now is that people are gonna get focused on the wrong things about the cause and effects of this tragedy of murder suicide - and that the ills of society will not be addressed - but some quick fix will be forwarded that does not address the causes of people going ballistic.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Very sad tragedy. People loved her as was stated on the air/tv by stunned residents as the interviewers .... well did their assignment. It is funny/sad that a person thought well of by the community - can be a different individual all together in private.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

BTW - did anyone else find it strange - you know - the complete media blitz coverage?

[+] -4 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

With all due respect for the people who want peace, there are people out there who only respond to violence. Not just violence, but overwhelming violence. There are people out there who will indescriminately kill civillians in mosques and marketplaces with suicide bombs. they need to be erased from the earth. We do not need to use drones to kill them. We could go back to the days of Dresden, Hanoi, Tokyo, where fleets of bombers would drop kilotons of bombs to take out a factory or refinery. War is cruel. War is merciless. The drones are part of a war to stamp out the fine peaceful muslims who wish to do us harm. there is absolutely no relationship between Pakistan and Conneticut. The shooter in conneticut was not a soldier or guerilla, he was just a sad evil bastard.

[-] 5 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The person you reference in Connecticut was bred in a country where people don't even protest when innocent civilians are slaughtered with drones and soldiers both funded by their tax dollars. Bred in a country where war is a lucrative business. Bred in a country where some think violence is the only solution. Funny then why in a moment of crisis he would resort to violence. You're right. No connection there. Just a loner living in a vacuum.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

In a country where you must Support the Troops

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWQASPoAD-I

The slogan "Support The Troops" has been a rallying cry for the support the war movement and has stifled any opposition to the policy of aggression. One needs only to look at recent uses of the slogan, by governments, as a tool for propaganda. The the most troubling aspect of this "Support The Troops" patriotism is that it inhibits us from asking important questions like:

"Are we really liberating the Iraqis?" or "What has the effect been on the Afghan people?" or "Is this war really worth the young lives being sacrificed?" etc.

The slogan "Support Our Troops" has the potential of silencing a great many people in the debate precisely because they fear being labeled un-American and unpatriotic. Ed Strong.

Noam Chomsky dissects state propaganda slogans like "Support The Troops." Clipped from, Class War: The Attack On Working People.

Excerpt: The point of public relations slogans like "Support our troops" is that they don't mean anything. They mean as much as whether you support the people in Iowa. Of course, there is an issue. The issue is, Do you support our policy? But you don't want people to think about the issue. That's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody's going to be against, and everybody's going to be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything, but its crucial value is that it diverts your attention....

[-] 4 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Excellent points you are making here. So true. And Chomsky nails it. The other thing is that the best thing to help "support the troops" might be to not send them at all to a certain battle ground.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Support the troops - keep em at home - SAFE - perhaps engaging in needed work to make our citizens safe - relocate people off of flood plains - or off of low lying coastal areas - shore-up or expand on storm barriers - stuff to make this country stronger safer resilient.

Just a thought.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Wouldn't that be great!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - YES - it really would.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We're so easily led. Hitler's Lt. Goehring knew that: "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials before being sentenced

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Some people were awake back then and tried to stop the madness before it got under way - there were not enough of them - not enough people heard and understood the warnings.

Are we at a point in time - where with the extensive communications that are available to the individual - will make the difference?

Is this where we show all of the effects of war on a civilian population and say for WHAT? WHAT? Why are these men women children being killed? For What? They did not attack us - they are victims just the same as anyone else.

Is this leading up to a moment of great spiritual awakening - an awakening to the madness that is being waged by those in positions of power and influence?

Is this a moment/point for possible growth of the maturity/wisdom of people/society?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I sure hope so.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

exactly!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We're so easily led. Hitler's Lt. Goehring knew that:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials before being sentenced

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

People keep saying that this guy was evil and it made me wonder if he really was. What I mean is that when I think of someone who is evil, I imagine them being born that way. Was this a case of nature or nurture or both? In the past ten or so years I've observed so many incidents where a perfectly average and well adjusted person became a monster simply because they were diagnosed with some disorder for being different and then medicated. The exponential increase between violence and psychotropic drugs is very real and many doctors and scientists and researchers have pleaded with Congress to address this issue but they continue to ignore it for financial gain and unholy alliances with drug companies. I can't say that this guy was evil. He had no history of being a bully or mutilating animals or harming anyone as far as I know. The Columbine shooters were also loners- nerds actually and they were bullied to a breaking point. The medications they were on were antidepressants because the school psychologists found it easier to drug them into complacency rather than addressing the bullies and treating them for being evil. Unfortunately, those medications alter the mind by removing a person's conscience and as a result, their anger and hurt and fear manifests in physical violence. All of us have had 'evil' thoughts about revenge or damaging someone's property but we don't follow through because we no it's wrong and we don't want to behave that way but SSRI's conveniently diminish or numb that part of our brains responsible for reasoning and empathy. This is why our military was used in one of the studies on ecstasy and SSRIs by medicating them and subjecting them to numerous tours. Too many of our soldiers committed heinous crimes in Iraq and too many came home and murdered their wives and children and themselves. Are they evil too?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You can't create peace with drone strikes. Especially when 98% of the time they're killing innocent civilians.

"Unmanned drone strikes in hopes of taking out the Taliban and al-Qaeda positions in Pakistan is leading the U.S. into an area of unaccountability that leads to blowback, where we actually lose friends, where we help inspire anti-American sentiments and fanaticism and radicalism." - Dennis Kucinich

We need to focus our efforts on creating new solutions.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Highlander says the shooter in Connecticut was "just a sad evil bastard" and says "there is absolutely no relationship between Pakistan and Vonnecticut." The person he references in Connecticut was bred in a country where people don't even protest when innocent civilians are slaughtered with drones and soldiers both funded by their tax dollars. Bred in a country where war is a lucrative business. Bred in a country where some think violence is the only solution. Funny then why in a moment of crisis he would resort to violence. I'm sure highlander must be right. No connection there. The shooter was just a loner living in a vacuum. No one is ever affected by their culture and the behavior of those that are supposedly their leaders right?

[+] -4 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

Never let a crisis go to waste. Asshole.

[-] 4 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You ever hear about cognitive dissonance?

Where is the outrage over the deaths of children caused by US foreign policy? There isn't one. If you want to call me an asshole for asking people why they care one minute and don't the next, you should re-evaluate the situation.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4527) 1 year ago

Agree.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Excellent point Trevor

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Consider your comment is about a strategy to amass more power either in a political system ... or power over US Citizens.

It is a zero sum gain fot the US. One group loses under the perception and one group appears to gain ... both are Americans.

But all of this cloak and dagger intelligence work doesnt always work out correctly according to the plan. Humans respond in mass in unpredicable ways.

For instance most of the US knows that the Iraqi war was not only wrong, unfair, and caused human misery that had no reason ... But there is a democratic backlash against warmongers. Your kids see through this if you have kids... but it is not about your personal life ... Women and kids everywhere know what Right and Wrong is. History books will come down very hard on George W. Bush for being an asshole that killed women and children.

The fact is Conservatives seem to be unable to cope with fear. Conservatives would rather attack a nation or start a war ...than be brave and feel a little fear. But I'm sure the Defense Lobby was promising kickbacks and profits ... and a good US economy if we wen't to war and spend $100 Billion on war.

But check the Federal Budget from 1998 -2010 for Defense Spending Increases. The defense budget Doubled and hasn't receeded. The Defense direct Vendor Payments Trippled and haven't receeded. Easy to see the payoff here. It is all about money.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

It's all about money.

and resources, which are used to steal money.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Iran... all about money and power grabs.

If it were ever about saving civilians like THEY always claim, we would have been in Congo saving the millions of lives lost there.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I agree. And Don't know why they don't understand, "First Do No Harm". Which leads up to eminent Domain issues where towns, villages, farms, or orcharchs are destroyed for Dams or other projects. People which sustained themselves, lose their livelyhood...and the top soil is gone, so they can't farm.

And also what Violence to put an ideigeous people on a Reservation, but not build them homes, roads, water systems, electricy. I am starting to suspect it is not economics and limited budgets that keep people poor ... I suspect Europeans want to supress non-European Cultures. When they put cultures in lower position - they teach all that their culture is more important and should be valued. Oppression.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Your suspicions are accurate. You ever hear Bush compare the wars to a crusade?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, he got in trouble for that. Makes you wonder if he was just speaking to his campaign supporters showing he was their man and showing every he ws going forward with both war in Afghanistan & Iraq... The rumor is that the Military had always wanted to go into Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, etc ... Then there are the Think Tanks.

republicans ahve a plan for when they get in office it seems. The Democrat Winner probably gets read in to what he is expected to agree with ... Another apporach would be to make a deal with the democratic president ...key the Military spending going to keep the economy running, keep the wars going to make the military commanders happy, don't do anything we say is stupid in your first term ...and we will give you a break on impeachment actions, and we will had you some bank and oil legislation for you to help out on which will help you get campaign contributions later down the line.

Deals all over the place. Networks within networks.

History is wild... reading a little about Spanish Exporer/ Exploiters and something aobut the English Exploiters ... They really forced their culture down on everyone ... what makes us think they stopped doing that?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

"They really forced their culture down on everyone ... what makes us think they stopped doing that?"

I just ordered The People Shapers by Vance Packard the other day. It's my next read.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, I think most of the work on mind control was done before that was published. So might be a pretty good one. There probably are a bunch of things that are inteligent and accurate about the work they did in mind control.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Advertising can be a form of mind control.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

True. We are so busy spending money and buying stuff ... we don't think about culture, philosophy, politics, Congress, Corruption, Corporations, Executive Compensation, Corporate tax Credits and Tax Abatements, and tax right offs, Lobbying, Conflict of Interest, Revolving Door,

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

That's why people like you and I have to spend a lot of time getting the truth out there.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, I guess mind control is also about repeating lies. We get that from MSM and Congress. Advertising, Propaganda, Public Relations, Controling Opinion, ...and in some cases telling people what they want to hear (since people don't want to hear things are haywire, corrupt, or only for economic or profit motives). It is 1984.