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Forum Post: The Continuing Militarization of Police... Where will it stop?

Posted 11 years ago on Aug. 29, 2012, 4:59 p.m. EST by kaiserw (211)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Marines conduct urban combat training with Law Enforcement:

Training at Camp Lejeune Thursday looked and felt real -- and that was the point. Law officers and marines from across the country ended their training with a bang.

Thursday was the final day of exercises for law enforcement and marines who have gone through special reaction team training at Camp Lejeune for the past three weeks. In the final exercise, teams were presented with a series of real life scenarios as well as hands on instruction to handle them correctly.

Brian Dye, Operations Chief of I&I in Lexington, Kentucky says training civilians as a blended force with Marine Corps personnel eases the transition into a real world scenario.

"I think it's always good when you get an opportunity to work on some similar tactics and procedures so that everybody's kind of operating on the same page. That way when you bring teams together from active duty and the civilian side, it makes the integration a whole lot smoother."

The tactics trainees take away from this course just may help save lives. This three week SRT training course is phase one for law enforcement and Marine Corps personnel. Phase two will focus on sniper and designated marksmanship training.


Military training for law enforcement is going to save lives... Ahhh, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! You know what they say: "When you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

Military tactics have absolutely no place in law enforcement. Law enforcement are supposed to be peace officers, diffusing situations encouraging peace and cooperation.

Tactics of war are based on principles of overwhelming firepower and violence of action. Eventually when you implement tactics of war on civilians under the auspices of "law enforcement", you start one. No good can come of any of this.

Every day most law enforcement go to work, they are in violation of their oath. Anyone in leadership that supports this kind of activity is bordering on treason.



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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Fight over NDAA’s police-state provisions continues in court", by Jake Olzen :

"The Obama administration continues to defend its right to violate the rights of the people it is supposed to govern. On August 6, Department of Justice lawyers filed an appeal in federal court against a recent ruling that temporarily enjoined section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which gives powers to the military to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens — on U.S. soil — without charge or trial. The case, and the organizing that surrounds it, will have profound implications for basic constitutional rights, though it has been largely ignored by the mainstream media."

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 11 years ago

Sorry buddy but these laws are only being revised. The founding fathers set this up and put it in motion long before any of you were twinkles in your Daddy's eyes...or whatever.... But anywho....don't blame Obama.....google Militia and see how far back the rights of the people (depending on who they were and the color of their skin) were trampled on in the great history of this nation. This is not new!


Remember.....1774, the rights of a nation were destroyed when they were made slaves here, by independent militia men who compromised anyone and every able bodied __ man who wanted to be a part of it!

So, who were those guys?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 11 years ago

the militia is there to protect the people from the government.. not to be used by the government against the people! that is the way it is 'set up"

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 11 years ago

No kidding? Did you get the same memo they did or should I go remind them?

[-] 2 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

9 of our people were arrested in this foreclosure action in Raleigh ( but not me). We were having a quiet day hanging out until ... skip to 7:37 in the You Tube video. The police marched in like they were going into battle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRHRpJ9mtWk Not shown on the video is the use of the SWAT team to arrest the 2 Occupiers inside the house.


[-] 7 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

Military tactics have absolutely no place in law enforcement. Law enforcement are supposed to be peace officers, diffusing situations. Tactics of war are based on principles of overwhelming firepower and violence of action. Eventually when you implement tactics of war on civilians under the auspices of "law enforcement", you start one.


[-] 1 points by funkytown (-374) 11 years ago

I very much disagree with this... the first order of law enforcement is to contain; protecting the innocent, limiting violence, requires precision. Listen if you're a criminal in NY you're screwed anyway: the NYPD is the largest gang in the world and they ALWAYS get their man; the fault is not with the PD but with American criminal justice.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

bombs are area of effect

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

It's American Criminal Justice, and it certainly is the police chief's determining the role of the police. The drug war is certainly to blame for putting us on this path. In the early 70s, there were less than 6 SWAT teams in the country. They were only used for hostage rescue, and active shooter situations only.

Now every one horse town with a sheriff's department has one, and a tank. They have been repeatedly deployed for every type of search warrant, and /or interview you can imagine. There was a recent swat raid by the department of education for suspected criminal activity: http://reason.com/blog/2011/06/08/dept-of-education-swat-team-up

Now, virtually any search warrant, "knock and announce" which has no longer knocks or announces, and has been shortcut to: just blow the door down. With many dogs killed by these raids, innocents killed "accidentally", people seek to defend themselves.

Swat tactics are military RAID tactics, which are based on extremely fast violence of action, and achieving rapid fire superiority - it's a battle drill. When you have cops INITIATING gun battles, you no longer have peace officers, you have a domestic military.

Contrast with the German Police who only had 85 bullets fired total, only 35 at people, in the line of duty over 2011 nationwide. In the month of April, 85 bullets were fired in harlem... at 1 person... and another 90 were fired at an unarmed man in Los Angeles. So, by your account they are neither containing, or using precision, they are laying down suppressive fire with no account for civilians, just as they shot 11 people in NYC last week. They are an occupying force. If they push hard enough, they will begin to be treated that way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCzT4njsyH4

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 11 years ago

Police departments have internal problems; often those that land in positions of authority do not belong there - they are lacking the intelligence, leadership skills, and the exemplary performance that would merit the promotion. Power is abused.

While both the peace officer and the police officer are civil servants, they are wholly different animals - one has "police" powers, the other only powers pursuant to specific duties.

The German Polizei have long maintained a paramilitary presence; while thirty years ago our police carried six shot roller guns they carried Uzis and utilized sharpshooters. This was primarily the result of concerns of terrorism - do remember Berlin in '82? There were countless lesser events.

I've had those Uzis leveled at me... the Polizei are very serious about containment.

But there are less shootings in Germany simply because there is far less violent crime. Traditionally, they have always been "one people" of a common mindset, far more analytical by the very nature of their language itself, and far more inclined to the measure by consensus of "good" versus "evil." This is not something merely stereotypical, it is part of daily life and discussion. In the US, we have become so tolerant of "bad" that we have decriminalized and in the process legitimized all low level crime... we've created gray areas.

American police "tactics" are also the result of concerns over foreign and domestic terrorism...

We talk of revolution... but the reality is that we must engage at some local level; the police will always get their man.

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

I would argue that the militarization of police began with the drug war. Several outspoken detectives have attested to the same for several decades, especially in LA. The boogeyman of terrorism is just the latest excuse. Now it grows on itself to feed itself power. Police chiefs, Swat team commanders all gain more power with additional missions and the growth of the domestic military complex.

I too have stared up at the Polizei, and they're definitely not perfect, but I've also known American cops who have told me about their unbelievably reckless actions (dumping several magazines through a floor of an apartment building to "get a suspect"). The level of violence and acceptance of it in the US is only equaled by tyrannical regimes around the world. When are we going to call a spade a spade and admit the police is a tyrannical force?

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 11 years ago

You might argue that but you'd be mistaken... the tactical police have developed in conjunction with the military, furthered by our need to defend against the terrorist threat.

American cops are no where near as reckless as they used to be; they no longer throw people off city buildings as they used to... there is just far too much accountability today to perform any real policing duties. And so, street level crime is rampant.

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

I've done the numbers, and I'm quite sure that I'm correct. I don't just throw things out there without very solid confidence in my assessment.

The fact is, Terrorism is extremely rare, not quite rocking-horse shit rare, but almost. Annualized victims of terrorism to Americans are about 125 people, extrapolating 9/11. More people drown in their own swimming pools, (not all swimming pools, their own). More people are struck by lightning, and more innocents are murdered by police (about 350/year) than are victims of terrorism. Clearly the math and cost benefit is 300% or more negative. That's a fact.

Law enforcement has reached a near apex of unaccountability, I have no idea what gives you the thought there's accountability. just watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmGWLsn0iM, or go peruse this site: www.injusticeeverywhere.com. Cops are always protected by other cops. The story about the judge in NYC that got beaten up is a great example: http://www.policemisconduct.net/everything-say-lie/.

Tactical police by the nature of the very tactics, based on overwhelming rapid violence of action, are demonstrably and factually proven to have a higher fatality rate of innocents and police combined, than conventional law enforcement. This doesn't even count the societal and social strain imposed by the psychology of these units, i.e. these units are seriously risking initiating a civil war - based on the trends I analyze.

Additionally these "tactical" "operators" <laughing inside> are so tactically inept (unfähig), usually terribly bad physical conditioning, can barely run with their full load 100 meters, and have no competency beyond stack entry raids. If the more future actions follow the trend line, and further, retribution follows, that spirals into a domestic insurgency, they would likely not stand a chance.

So, you are at a crossroads, the police forces can return to operating under their oath, setting aside tactics to aggression, upholding peace and the rights of citizens, defenders of people and freedom under your Constitution... Or, you can continue down the road of tyranny, treason and oppression to see how that plays out, a hint: it always ends badly.

This quote seems apropos:

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

The USA is not Stalinist Russia. I know your American people, and have talked about this with people in your military, they won't sit idly by.

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 11 years ago

Yea... but you leave out the rising criminality associated with drug use and abuse; you assume that those on the criminal side of the drug war are peace abiding citizens; that's absurd - drug crime is rampant.

You've left out the psychological ability to empower - "cops are evil" - not only gets police officers killed it also results in injury to innocent bystander.

You've left out our terrorist threat and the need to ramp up on all levels.

You've left out the manufacturers and the retailers that cater to the police market - as technology advances, what do you suppose they're selling if not tactical gear and training?

Even your apropos quote is absurd: Americans are armed to the nines, as well if not better than our police, and we're not surrendering our guns to any authority, whatsoever, ever.

So your argument becomes one that favors criminal empowerment and that is not some thing that anyone but the dirtbag favors in America. As law abiding citizens we have a right to be safe in our homes, on our streets, and in our communities. For this reason we will continue to not only support our police but grow our police.

Honestly, I see today's police as too docile; if it were up to me we'd deputize and reclaim by force all those neighborhoods that have fallen to the thugs and the slugs; anything less is absurd.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Urban Warfare Drills : Psy-Op Acclimating Americans to Military on US Streets",

by Susan Posel :

cave, bellum se ipsum alet ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Thanks shadz. Interesting - I tweeted the article.

I added a caption: USA short on money? Not 4 military.


[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

Yes, and like I've said before, there's a whole lot of special ops people I was acquainted with a few years ago that have been watching unfolding events very cautiously and carefully. That whole oathkeepers crowd means business. If martial law was ever declared, things would likely get pretty sporty...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

D'you mean dead people in the streets "sporty" ?!!!

Only in demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy U$A !!

Sheeesh !

fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

Hopefully we'll never find out. Maybe we'll make first contact with aliens, and all of humanity will come together, and the silliness will end. We can still hope. There's always hope.

[-] 2 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

It's crazy. Each time this happens, it further entrenches the people versus the police. At some point people snap. Lately some police and federal agents have started going after military veterans, to lock them up on no charges. I know a lot of crusty old veterans that have no intention of submitting to a swat raid to their house. If they don't stop this insanity soon, it's going to spiral out of control.

Potential aggressors had better think this through very carefully. Stand down the militarized tactics, or the eventual outcome will be unpleasant.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2100 (25) 11 years ago

The police are for the most part regular people doing the job they were trained to do and enforce the law in like manner..there are some bad apples out there as in any other profession...basically these are folks just trying to earn a living..a tough living.....my thump on the head goes to MADD and other enlightened groups who thought throwing away our civil rights (through mandated police roadblocks) in exchange for "security" (think...Benjamin Franklin) was a better deal than basic individual freedoms we had enjoyed as a people for over 200 years. Contact your elected representatives...get involved through OWS and other venues....blaming the police is a cop-out....make the laws work for us!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

It will stop when someone is killed by police and the courts find in favor of the 99%.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

The only way to change this obscenity of anti civil rights action, is to step back from the endless war on terror created after the 9/11 attacks were exploited to create so much fear as to allow all number of laws in the name of security. We MUST agitate all pols for the end of NDAA, Warrentless Wiretaps, etc as well as against all military actions, use of mercs, huge military budgets, nukes, police abuse,

AND we must fight for a reduction of the fear mongering that is the foundation for all of this!

That IS the key.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 11 years ago

so true.. you have to ask.. why would the police be helping the military "on the civilian side? Does the government plan to be calling up martial law? and if so.. why would the police be involved? if so.. are they trying to force the public into revolution so they can have an excuse for all this?

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 11 years ago

The 1% relies to a large extent on Death Squads.The US Government even has a person who is an expert on repression of populations using death squads.His name is John Negroponte,a "diplomat" and dual US/UK citizen.Whenever Negroponte is dispatched to a US embassy anywhere in the world,death squads begin operating in that country about 60-90 days later.This was most recently observed in Syria when one of Negroponte's top staffers was sent to that country.Usually he goes in person,but I guess he is trying to delegate more of this work due to advancing age.The US also has a special school for death squads called the School of the Americas.The way a death squad repression starts out is through targetted disappearances of a few people here and there-union organizers,grassroots organizers,journalists,artists,leftist party organizers &c.Slowly the awareness grows that mysterious disappearances and unexplained murders are on the rise,and a deep-seated fear takes root in the population.Sometimes this is enough to stop any kind of activism-if not,a locality with some sort of worrysome independant or activist element is violently abducted and mostly murdered and the bodies disposed of in such a way as not to be found for at least a couple of years.This continues until the 1% feels the people have been sufficiently terrorized.Part of the process is confining some people in torture centers and then letting them go home to tell everybody what happened to them.Militarization of the police before the abductions begin is an essential element of what follows.The situation is complicated in the US by the fact that so many Americans are heavily armed.Nevertheless,the abduction phase may be coming soon because people would not be expected to come to the rescue of their neighbors in the event that a death squad is observed removing people from their homes.Probably thousands of people could be abducted in the US before people who have guns would offer resistance-the death squad controllers would only need to make sure to avoid people who are known to have guns.The 1% has total control of any and all media reports about shooting incidents,or indeed any other type of incident.The whole proposition is very dicey,but the US is very,very experienced at deploying death squads on behalf of the 1%.In no case that I have ever heard of has there been any difficulty finding people to serve as Death Squad Murderers.Part of the reason may be that death squads are most often "needed" in the case of a population that is threatening to turn into a middle class,or a middle class that has been negatively impacted by 1% greed which has destroyed their aspirations.I have been interested in genocide for many years and I believe that populations who have been singled out for genocide usually fall into one or the other of these categories.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 11 years ago

What people fail to realize is that there is state law and federal law. Each (or individual organization utilizing the laws) has the legal right to organize a militia, law enforcement organization and/or defense forces under the Constitution and the laws of this United States and Bill of Rights..

This country prides itself on having such tactical forces in place and many are getting better at it every single day. Now, one must understand the differences. ie:

The rights of the Police (privately organized in some states) accordingly granted jurisdiction over civil and criminal laws and the ability to take legal action and enforce those laws. http://united-america.org/code_police/article_0000.htm

The rights of the military to do so: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/10/A/I/13/311

and last but not least, the rights of the states themselves. http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/list-of-u-s-militia-groups/

Just because this information is held back from the school books doesn't mean it is something unbelievable, or totally incomprehensible.

How else is this country going to keep all this privatization of military might by others under control?

Now, these groups are what we call down south, "Bad asses with the license to kill" My great great grandparents called others the "Night Riders"...

I always advocate understanding the world of reality we live in. Oh, and before you all decide to revolt, take up arms, storm the white house, or try to incorporate complete anarchy after Marshall law is declared here shortly....listen up! "Duck and Cover!" The National Guard is always prepared.

Yet, one never really knows who might be watching and waiting.



[-] 2 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

Don't be so sure. The french police (actual frenchmen, the same police that served under french gov) under the Nazi occupying puppet government were more than happy to conduct raiding parties to pick up Jewish residents in Paris to be sent to the camps. The same happened on the Island of Jersey, by the British police, under German control. They registered the Jews, then picked them up and sent them to the camps. Don't underestimate the cowardice and blind obedience of these fools. History says most of these people will do otherwise. After all they're just "doing their jobs", "following orders". The potentially awaiting hangman's noose of future justice does not even cross their minds. Just read the transcripts from the Nuremberg trials, or read the accounts of the french and British... It's sick.



[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

Thanks very much. People have to shake the normalcy bias and wake up. I wish I could get more people to see it. The more people who see reality for what it is can no longer be bullied or manipulated and make the eventual impact less dangerous. It's like antibodies for lies of state.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 11 years ago

and they were all Nazis, what did that change for Germany? nothing.

This only has one direction.

[-] -1 points by brudlo (-454) 11 years ago

why is NOAA and the dept of Social Security purchasing thousands ( millions ) of rounds of hollow point ammunition?

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

Good question, several retired Army Generals have been wondering the same question.

As a baseline, NYPD only gives their officers one box of ammo a year for practice (20 rounds ball), which are usually not the same as duty rounds (hollow points). That's pretty common with most police forces from what I've heard.

Now for DHS, they ordered 750 Million rounds. That's alot, but maybe it just sounds like a lot, let's see:

Let's assume they're stockpiling for a 5 year usage, that's 150 Million a year.

Let's be generous, and give them 1,000 per officer to train a year, which is not out of line for military training of highly skilled units, some even burn that in 2 days training, but that's elite units. That leaves you with 150,000 people that can use at that rate. That's pretty high, then compound on that that they ordered another 450 Million, that's another 90,000 people training to the same "elite" level. There are several problems with this including, there aren't even enough practice ranges to run that many people through to train. It's strange.

On top of that, DHS put out a bulk order for primasheet - thin sheet explosive used for breaching - that's scary... Someone is planning on doing military breaching of doors (blowing them up, not using a battering ram like you see on cops).

I don't know what it means, but it's unsettling to say the least. Good news is, most of these "officers" are in terrible physical shape, and are tactically ineffective. They look like a bunch of overweight idiots playing soldier. But hell, most of the Humvee bound military is combat ineffective too, but that's a matter of doctrine mostly, and a different conversation.

Still though, the motivation is worrisome. You don't just go to procurement and order that much ammo without a reason... Somebody has an answer, but I have no idea.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Has anyone ever worked in a high production machine shop? Contracts get placed by customers in the millions of units. Then the customer will call for the shop to run certain lots to be released over the period of the contract. This allows the customer to negotiate a lower price ( even though the military has a poor record of doing that with their contracts ) Then there is a penalty that is figured to cover the producer if the customer cancels their order short.

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

ATK who are the manufacturer of Federal HST brand ammunition run these lines non-stop, it's not a matter of re-tooling and setup. They're always running. Civilian purchases have picked up dramatically over the last 2 years. Society in general looks like they're getting ready for a fight.



[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

I don't see any conspiracy here. It's The division of Marine Fisheries. a division of NOAA. They protect wildlife. Stopping Whale poachers, etc. That brudlo guy probably got his info from Alex Jones. Alex loves to make everything into a conspiracy.


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Talking about Global warming - the sun has gone down here and it is still 91 degrees out. Earlier the temp on my balcony read 132 Degrees - out in the yard though it was just over 100.


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

According to the forecast it is supposed to get hot tomorrow.


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

You must get some good weather moderation off of the ocean.


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

I guess I never noticed that eastward shift in the warm months - as we get the arctic and Canadian jet-stream in the winter most often here.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Good follow-up.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

Maybe their gonna shoot at hurricanes.


[-] 2 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

That must be it. lol.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

LOL - years ago Miami had a national police trainee recruitment campaign in which they stated candidates must be ready willing and able to take a 6 month boot camp training program conducted by the military.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Shoot the rounds in a continuous stream counter to the rotation of the storm to slow it down and eventually stop or redirect it - stainless rounds only - gotta keep the lead out of the environment. {:-])

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

Yeah,. I think somebody got the wrong acronym.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Aw come on - it's a new type of seedin program - very hush hush. Hmmm or I suppose it could be part of an NSA restock order.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

Actually I just checked it out. The National Marine Fisheries Service is a division on NOAA. They have a law enforcement division. They only ordered 16,000 rounds.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Ah - drug runnin detail. Lets be careful out there.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

Maybe whale poachers. But the deal with DHS is something else.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Department Homeland Security? Yeah I would figure that they have to put in a long term high volume bid.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

That seems to be the case. Its a five year contract, apparently. http://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswire/press_releases/2012/03/12/CG68224

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Yeah a machine shop I used to work at did some defense contract work - we made some fuse casings. We would tool up a machine run off a couple hundred thousand casings and then retool the machine for another customer until the next lot to go out was coming due.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

Yeah,been doing a little searching between posts. I'm not a big fan of DHS, but I think it serves no good purpose to go all conspiratorial without knowing the facts.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

True - there is enough real nasty shit going down without trying to start a panic.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

Yeah,We'll just have to ask Alex Jones about it. lol

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Problem solved. hehehe

[-] 0 points by brudlo (-454) 11 years ago

do your own search. its a fact regarding NOAA. thats why it s highly disturbing.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago