Forum Post: The 1st Presidential Debate = FAIL & FAIL, People I truly hope that you are looking at your state elections as to being the place to start making a difference.
Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 3, 2012, 10:50 p.m. EST by DKAtoday
(33802)
from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Overall - President Obama kept with things that he has tried to push and/or has achieved.
Overall - Mittens has kept with his position of promising sunshine and lollypops - but without providing how that happens.
Both of them talked = Middle class Middle class and Middle class - except that Obama did say that the wealthy needed to pick up on their contribution to society and Mittens said that the wealthy are doing enough.
Both of them failed to acknowledge the poor and the victims of the collapse.
Mittens said Dodd-Frank was too much and Obama said it was needed but failed to recognize the fact that it was much less regulation then Glass-Stegall ( meaning - IMO - that Dodd-Frank was weak and insufficient ).
This debate was a waste of time for anyone who knows anything of what is actually happening in the World TODAY.
Either Obama is simply not comfortable being in front of the people after the bullshit he has done the past four years, or he is going for the ol rope a dope. Im going for the later, if there is one thing he is good at, its blowing smoke up people's asses. This wasnt Obama tonight.
I listened to 4 minutes
of Obama bragging how he included the insurance companies in his health plan?
Tuesday, October 23rd: -Third Party Debate in Chicago
Obama is known for being (1) likable and (2) a good speaker at political rallys. But he is also known for being Mr. Cool when he is in think-mode and not preach-mode. If there is anything that a debate certainly is, it is a "think on your feet" presentation where all of your attributes, both good and bad, are exposed to millions. Obama was too cool tonight. Romney was fired-up. If Obama continues in the next 2 debates as Mr. Cool Intelligentsia, people may not be able to connect to that. That's because most people are tuned-in to emotion, not reason. That's why most people will watch a football game on TV rather than something like Buckley's old "Firing Line" show. So Obama better pull out some of that emotion that he is capable of showing when he is on the stump in the next two debates or he might take a nose dive with the people and be out on the street.
Lol. I think it's the exact opposite. Obama needs to be concise and not repeat himself to make points.He'll win on some topics and not others so take it in stride. He shouldn't allow himself to be drawn into the game of disrespecting the moderator either. At this point people are more interested in understanding complex issues than seeing passionate pleas from either side.
I understand what you are saying, and I agree with it as I personally find that approach more appealing than show business. But the debates, to a certain degree, ARE show business. People form judgements on more than mere talking head rational arguments. They are looking and judging as to who they think displays the best leadership attributes, and the candidate that falls short of their preconceived idea of what that is (whatever it is) is going to be judged weaker than the other. The debates are more, much more, than reasoned arguments. The candidates know this and seek opportunity to portray their opponent as inferior to themselves. This is high-stakes chess, poker, and mud wrestling all rolled into one. It is spectacle. So Obama better learn how to deal with Romney's bullying (which, believe it or not, lots of people will interpret as strength) or he could be looking at a nasty surprise in November.
I believe that the polls will likely indicate that Romney won the debate tonight.
Not repeat himself!! Ya got that right. Hell, it'll still be Bush;s fault when Obama dies of old age!
Yep - even with all of the nastiness mittens has shown ( freely ) if the Pres does not slap him down good and proper - there is all too good of a chance that mittens can win with the perverted southern vote.
I say rope a dope.
Perhaps he was thinking about his anniversary?
Nah.
He sure put in a poor performance.
Yes, Obamas opening statement was pretty dull. Then there was a commercial on CNN.
Clinton connected better with the people.
There was so much that could have & should have been said in the opening statement as well as the closing statement - the whole Damn thing was pathetic.
Re. "the whole Damn thing was pathetic", I append 2 highly relevant links :
"Expanding the Debate Exclusive : Third Party Candidates Break the Sound Barrier As Obama-Romney Spar", by 'Democracy Now!' :
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/4/expanding_the_debate_exclusive_third_party &
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32652.htm [Alt. link & transcript].
This is what an functional media can look like outside the "pathetic" BS-MSM Propaganda Bubble !!!
minima maxima sunt ...
Thanks for the link on the expanded debate = http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/4/expanding_the_debate_exclusive_third_party
I tweeted the program and hope that it will be shared and circulated by others as well. Rocky & Jill added what was missing - substance.
Agreed. That was a total disgrace.
Thank you. Anyone who has failed to notice - I am truly concerned about.
Yes sir. And to those of us who understand what has happened, what is going on, and what needs to be done, it was a blatant display of dishonest dodging, horrendous moderating, pathetic debating, and an insult to the American people.
My only fear is that many Americans are going to watch this, and cling to this bullshit, hence feeling like they are now informed and ready to start attacking the other side, like they see on TV.
Very well said. I was thinking the same things.
I would hope that more people would take this debate(?) tonight and say - Now I begin to see more clearly what the protests are all about.
That should have happened when we began the "War on Terror," got Enroned-Halliburtoned-WSed and Henry Paulson processed an electronic withdrawal on the world.
"Every GOP administration since 1952 has let the Military-Industrial Complex loot the Treasury and plunge the nation into debt on the excuse of a wartime economic emergency. Richard Nixon comes quickly to mind, along with Ronald Reagan and his ridiculous 'trickle-down' theory of U.S. economic policy. If the Rich get Richer, the theory goes, before long their pots will overflow and somehow 'trickle down' to the poor, who would rather eat scraps off the Bush family plates than eat nothing at all. Republicans have never approved of democracy, and they never will. It goes back to preindustrial America, when only white male property owners could vote." -Hunter S. Thompson
"To prefer evil to good is not in human nature; and when a man is compelled to choose one of two evils, no one will choose the greater when he might have the less."-Plato
"Republicans have never approved of democracy, and they never will. It goes back to preindustrial America, when only white male property owners could vote."
You know, until this very moment, I never stopped to consider that this country was not founded as a true democracy, but as a Republic designed to represent those who, at the time, were the only ones allowed to vote -- namely, white men. Women couldn't vote, blacks couldn't vote, Native Americans couldn't vote. So the founding of America wasn't so much a rebellion for freedom from English rule as it was a desire of the American Aristocracy (disguised as freedom lovers against monarchy) to break free so they could practice unregulated capitalism unencumbered from British taxation. All of the Founding Fathers were from well-to-do backgrounds. Washington, Jefferson, and the rest were the Kochs and Trumps of their day. Seen in this light, the American Revolution can be viewed entirely differently.
Thanks for turning the light bulb on for me regarding this.
[Democratic] Republic!
Everything starts out rough and unrefined, EVERYTHING! They call it evolution and/or progress. But some (those who never wanted this Democratic Republic or independence) have fought against evolution and progress for generations. Don't fold under the pressure of realizing this, we out number them!!
Just shows how far back the spin monsters the propaganda masters were operating and with out the public crying foul to being lied to.
Not all of the colonists were for this whole democracy/independence thing, and a lot of there descendants teamed up with disgruntled Civil War losers. So the "monsters" have always been there, but they used to hide out of (tar and feathered) fear. Not any more.
Yes the monsters have festered in silence since their losses during the civil rights era. But now the monsters are coming out in droves as the white collar criminals/monsters lead the way to death and destruction of ALL.
They're not afraid of individuals (that's why they advocate individualism), they are afraid of societies, communities and unions. Especially active and enlightened ones.
Yes - Good People Banded Together are to be feared by criminals and monsters - as banded together we have the power to make change.
And punish thugs, marauders and exploiters. Snidely Whiplash!
OK, I'm done.
Watching The Debate, We Were All Like ...
Support the teaching of good values starting with the very young.
Something mittens is apparently against.
Mister Rogers Saved PBS Once Before. Help Him Save It Again.
Tweeted.
PBS attacked on National TV. What is your thought on this? ( BTW - I tweeted )
On Wednesday night, Mitt Romney vowed to cut all of PBS's funding -- even though it only makes up 0.012% of the federal budget. How is killing Sesame Street going to fix the economy?
Hey, Mitt Romney! Leave Big Bird Alone!
take action
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On Wednesday's presidential debates, Mitt Romney made some big promises. But the one that stuck out to me was his vow to cut all of PBS's funding -- even though it only makes up 0.012% of the federal budget.
I knew Mitt liked to fire people, but I never thought I'd see Big Bird on the chopping block.
Sesame Street has been educating youth commercial-free since 1969, but Mitt's proposed budget cuts to public broadcasting may remove Big Bird from TV forever. Call me crazy, but how will taking Sesame Street off the air fix the economy?
"I love Big Bird," Mitt Romney told the assembled crowds at the debate. But if he really loved the guy, he wouldn't be working this hard to take him away from American kids.
Sesame Street is one of the best children's programs out there; it's a commercial-free safe place for kids to learn and be entertained. Romney can't cut it and the rest of PBS's valuable programming just because he's trying to make a statement.
Tell Mitt Romney to pick on someone his own size and leave Big Bird and the rest of PBS alone!
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Debate continues - Do you have a strong stomach?
Science and the Presidential Election:
Well, the first presidential debate is over, and barely a word was said about science. So how would the candidates use science to inform the decisions they make?
This summer, the Union of Concerned Scientists teamed up with Science Debate and many other scientific organizations—including the National Academies of Science, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the American Physical Society—to come up with fourteen science policy questions for the presidential candidates. Read the answers that President Obama and Governor Romney provided.
Ask Your Own Questions UCS also joined a suite of government transparency organizations to put together 10 questions you can ask candidates at any level about how they would ensure that we know more about how government makes decisions—and on what basis. These questions cover a lot of ground, from freedom-of-information laws, to whistleblower protection, to how to follow the money the government spends. Read the questions and consider approaching candidates who are campaigning near you.
Register to Vote Election Day is November 6, and in some states, the registration deadline is swiftly approaching. Turbovote provides a quick and easy way to register (or update your voter registration) in any state.
At the site, you can also request and absentee ballot or sign up for reminders. Voter requirements have changed in some states, too, so head over to Turbovote and make sure you're registered and have the necessary documents to vote. In many states, you can also confirm that you are registered online.
Happy voting!
Sincerely, MichaelHalpern_jpg Michael Halpern National Field Organizer Center for Science and Democracy Union of Concerned Scientists
The Union of Concerned Scientists is the leading science-based nonprofit working for a healthy environment and a safer world.
tweeted = 4 Insanely Important Issues You Won't See In The News
tweeted = What Does Underwear Have To Do With Voting? (More Than You Think)
//Obama said it was needed but failed to recognize the fact that it was much less regulation then Glass-Stegall ( meaning - IMO - that Dodd-Frank was weak and insufficient ).//
Do you really think it would have been wise for president obama to trash a legislation that was passed during his term in the middle of a presidential debate?
I think it would have been wise if he had trashed it from day one of it's 1st introduction.
Those old Obama debate blues
Harking back to early 2008, the president stays professorial, while Romney gets feisty – and dishonest
By Joan Walsh
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/04/those_old_obama_debate_blues/
ThinkProgress’ LiveBlog Of The First Presidential Debate
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/03/953591/thinkprogress-liveblog-of-the-first-presidential-debate/#lbu-1349316679
Obama didn't score much but didn't fumble and still has the ball. Mitt looked awesome, was on Mormon speed and scored at will with a doddering Lehrer, who seemed to have left his teeth at home. Fact checking should deny most of Mitts points. Will MSM report fact checks? And what will the ambivalent undecided think? These are more dead brain mysteries.
I feel roof racked.
Yeah - Yep - all in all not a good start. People love the reality(?) stab in the back programs - and here we have a president making nice with a compulsive psychopathic liar.
"I got mine," Mitt, put a lot of bad cards on the table.
Might as well laugh: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/undecided-voter/1418227
That spot would be funny - if it were not so close to the truth on the obliviousness of so many.
Truth is stranger than fiction once again.
We should like... do something... about it.
Which "party," specifically, has the best Crudite Platter? and music?
The truth is being spread and the public is beginning to wake-up. We will just have to pray that enough are awake at election time to make a difference. And we will need to continue and step up our education outreach to the public if we are gonna have any chance to effect positive change.
Now, exactly, is that "truth spread" better with jicama or a cracker?
What? Sorry missed that reference.
I would say the truth the education the awakening is best continued to be spread by word of mouth.
Party favors, Crudite Platter. I'm playing "undecided."
Romney or Obama....u are still screw...
Mittens in office = straight to hell on earth.
Obama in office ( with no changes in senate and congress = straight to hell just a little slower ).
The important changes must happen in the state and federal governments - senate and congress. And those changes need to happen prior to a sellout like mittens ever getting near the White House.
Win or lose I hope Obama just keeps it clean. He showed a bit more class tonight than Romney. Romney is obviously going to try and make cuts in defense spending seem 'unpatriotic' but he's clueless about these issues. Obama is no doubt waiting for the subject of Iran to come up.
One can hope. But it was to say the least - a dismal opening round.
I thought the moderation was very strange too, but this was just the first round.
Was there any moderation? Not that it mattered - not really - as they never approached getting into the meat and potatoes of healing this nation - let alone the world.
Both guys need to work on their two-minute drill.
They did both have their fish out of water moments - didn't they?
Your two minutes were up ten minutes ago. What were we supposed to be talking about?
Inconsequential - who had the best smile while selling their spiel?
Anyone ever see the Wast Wing "debate" between Jimmy Smits & Alan Alda
I liked that show - show much Peyton place - presented with a black and white story. The evil done by those wearing the white hats was acceptable - because the end achieved was so noble. Sheesh the things people will believe if given enough fiction.
What's the point in asking them what they think the role of government should be? It seems like a stupid question.
If you could get an honest answer - it could mean a lot - as it was - both of them seemed to be pretty pathetic in their response.
OK, we saw that the Mitwit can hold his own against an incumbant President. And it is easier to be on offense challenging an incumbant record than to be on defense. But debating skill does NOT make a President. My fear is that people will read too much into this and formulate decisions that ignore the Facts about Romney. In the end, it is all smoke and mirrors, and if the American people are gullible enough to fall for style over substance, then I guess they deserve what they will get.
Romney has experience in business and even though he's no job creator he clearly understands that world very well. It was all domestic issues with this debate. Romney will fall flat on his face when they get around to foreign policy but he did very well for himself tonight.
I can not completely blame the public - as they are not receiving anything but MSM spin and really have no idea of realities being discussed over the internet. It would be the rare individual who could see the lies that have been placed before them and not refuted by journalists covering the events. This is exactly why the people need to get completely involved. So that they do not need to depend on others to give them a clue.
Agreed DK. There is just WAY too much commentary on TV now, so much so that it is not an exageration to say that the commentators do the thinking for them. So, depending on whether you watch Fox or MSNBC, you're in that Right or Left brainwashing pit and heaven help the sheeple with their ability to actually think their way through politics today in a clear and unbiased manner. Pretty much impossible I'd say.
Exactly - you have spin from the individuals being covered and then you have the spin of those providing the coverage.
People - KNOW THE ISSUES - then you can begin to weigh the outside input.
If you watch MSNBC - especially the last six months - you will hear Rachel, Lawrence, Ed use the word LIE
What is their viewing audience? Because perhaps there is hope for them.
Most innapropriatley, no doubt, unless they have finallty started telling the truth about Obama
If I had a son, He'd look like Brian Terry. Holder and Obama are criminals
So calling an R lie is a lie is "innapropriate" ???
specifically:
R's tax cuts do result in a 5T drop in revenues - R lied
R promised to restore $716B to Medicare - also an R lie
specifically:
what LIES did O state last night?
Romney's proposal is to lower rates and close loopholes in a REVENUE NEUTRAL manner. The 716Billion Medicare thing is a little more tricky. I just listened to Gwen Eifel (wash wk) discuss this and am still confused. A draw at best.
O keeps saying R is gonna raise taxes on the middle class. That is a lie. In fact, most everything he says about R is a lie. In fact, most everything that comes out of Obama's mouth is a lie. He was vs gay marriage before he was for it. Against Gitmo before he ignored it. He is trying to make gender pay gap an issue when in fact it flourishes in his own WH.
I am NOT a Romney fan, just an Obama foe.
the 716B out of Medicare is being dropped - NOT from patients
it is being dropped from overpayments to insurance companies & pharma
TO Obama care willard/ryan plan cut EXACTLY the same money - to give tax cuts for the 1%
For decades, the Rs have perfected the SLOGAN lie
explaining the truth is always far more difficult with the 20% tax cut [ bribe ] for everyone, plus zeroing cap gains, +2T$ added to the military
according to Rs, they will close "loopholes" to make up for it THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH LOOPHOLES that is why the middle class will wind up paying more
yes Obama's performance was terrible
but no one should vote for a performance just consider SCOTUS appointments
Ah yes...SCOTUS. He has already made 2 too many. Christ, our Constitution would undergo an extreme makeover w an Obama Court. I shudder to even contemplate.
FYI- SCOTUS cannot change the constitution
WE CAN
Virtually every OWS goal –
jobs, taxes, government honesty, energy, environment, economy
all go back to EXACTY one place
MONEY IN GOVERNMENT
And there is EXACTLY one first step:
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……. http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com
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A constitutional amendment to
Overturn Citizens United and Corporate Personhood
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For a complete analysis of the amendment issue,
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JOIN our OWS Working Group:
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By ruling on the Constitutionality of laws passed by Congress they are in fact defining the MEANING of the constitution. Same difference as changing it when you change its intent if not its wording.
fair but not exact
for example, SCOTUS could never create a fourth branch of government
I thought your first/main/only step was to get Obama reelected
my GOAL is getting money / 1% / koch / alec / norquist out of politics
assuming you agree,
SPECIFICALLY how would YOU do that ?
Don't know. I wouldn't be wasting time on the Internet, that's for sure.
I really don't have time to research all of these, but you can have at it.
http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Debate-check-Lies-and-half-truths-outed-3918012.php
http://washingtonexaminer.com/romney-stays-on-offense-to-hit-obama-lies/article/2509841
Tweeted. E-mailed to the President and to PBS.
The moderator fuckin sucked too.
Was there a moderator? I didn't notice.
Romney bullied the moderator in my opinion. Jim Leher should have stood up and said, "Excuse me Governor Romney, but I have a responsibility to maintain order and decorum in this debate, and your refusal to follow proper protocol cannot be tolerated. I must insist that you stop speaking when I have indicated it is necessary in order to adhere to time constraints and civil discourse within the debate framework." (or words to that effect)
Exactly - that is why I feel that there was no moderator. ( mittens - since he had the 1st word I should have the last - but apparently that only goes one way ) Piss Poor debate(?) all the way around. Less then meaningless to anyone who is up to speed with what is going on in the World Today.
Yes, Romney was over the top at one point.
Leher did a pathetic job. His boss in this, just like the rest of these pathetic debates, arent interested in debates.
Its more important to keep everything timed and short, no real debate or discussion, to keep all the advertisers happy. Make the money. Thats all this bullshit is.
I am curious as to what people here think of Obama saying he wants to lower the corporate tax rate?
I caught that too. He may have in mind cutting rates on small businesses income under a certain number such as $500,000. Ultimately our economy is driven by demand; not trickle down
but as long as grover is in charge, we are screwed
What he mostly wants is to keep his job. I didn't really understand why he would say that either, unless he was pandering to Center-Right undecided voters who favor lower taxes across the board. I actually thought he stood for raising corporate taxes (he made mention of corporate welfare), so I was a bit surprised/confused by that remark. But the pressure of being in debates is enormous and maybe he slipped up, idk.
For small business? I would think that they would be for it. It sounded to me that he would like to raise the taxes on the wealthy business's as he would like to raise taxes on the wealthy individuals.
[Removed]
Isn't any sanctioned debate between presidential candidates a waste of time? Scripted garbage.
Used to be better when the league of women voters ran the debates.
And the debates should include everyone who is on any states ballot.
You are 100% right!