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Forum Post: Michigan law that steals workers rights was LITERALLY written by corporations in ALEC-check out this side by side comparison!

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 12, 2012, 7:59 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Here's a side by side comparison of the ALEC recommendation to state house and the actual law. This is what corrupted democracy looks like: http://twitpic.com/bl4iu7

Exxon, Koch, Kraft, Pfizer, Amazon...... Here's a full list of the large corporations who are ramming anti-worker legislation through state houses around the country: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/ALEC_Corporations#For-Profit_Corporations

Here's an overview of ALEC: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council

And here's some great info on what ALEC has done and is trying to pull off: http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

MLK Jr., knew "right to work" was a ruse:

He helped early on with this protest we're now engaged in :)

“In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, such as ‘right to work.’ It is a law to rob us of our civil rights and job rights. Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining by which unions have improved wages and working conditions of everyone…Wherever these laws have been passed, wages are lower, job opportunities are fewer and there are no civil rights. We do not intend to let them do this to us. We demand this fraud be stopped.” —Martin Luther King, Jr.

Don't be fooled by the corporate media who has the narrative of "oh, workers joining together is a nice relic but it's a thing of the past. We just can't afford it anymore. We need austerity."

Let's follow the example of Occupy groups in England who are occupying Starbucks across the country to expose the absurdity of shutting down services for women (like rape crisis centers) when big multinational corporations are paying zero taxes. This whole "Gee gosh, I guess there is nothing else we can do but impose austerity is bullshit. http://occupywallst.org/article/starbucks-occupied-across-britain/

Huge corporations and the super rich have corrupted democratic governments around the world and rigged laws to benefit those corporations and super rich. And when that results in budget deficits, they sell it to us through corporate owned media in a way that makes it sound like WE are being greedy when we insist on living wages, basic health care, decent education, etc.

Austerity is their rallying cry and it is total fucking bullshit.

Let's restore the meaning of conservative! Occupiers are the true conservatives. As Chris Hedges pointed out so well, it's the current regime of so-called conservatives that are actually radicals. It's us occupy supporters that are demanding the restoration of the rule of law. See Chris Hedges make the point so beautifully here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

148 Comments

148 Comments


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[-] 8 points by beautifulworld (21444) 1 year ago

The American people need to see clearly that unions drive the wages of all other workers. This is why the powers that be want to break the unions.

If your teacher and your fireman make less money and have less benefits, trust me, your private employer will cheer and your wages and benefits will drop too.

Capitalists do not like unions because they provide a counter to the power that they wield. Now, I will say this: Unions have largely failed in this country for many reasons. They have let down the American worker. So, we can either get our unions back on track, form new worker/labor groups, or stand up as a group with actions like a national strike.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I completely agree on all points. Exactly.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

Here's some evidence as to why we are in our current predicament -

http://www.nationofchange.org/why-billionaire-political-investors-will-keep-pouring-money-politics-until-they-re-stopped-135532290

http://www.nationofchange.org/profit-share-hits-record-high-politicians-are-distracted-deficit-dispute-1355324845#

http://www.nationofchange.org/right-s-sham-religion-rugged-individualism-1355328952

From the last article - 'Let us restore “liberal” to its root origins, with brave defenses of liberty alongside tolerance, individualism alongside“collective” teamwork. What’s wrong with pulling together, “all for one and one for all,” the recipe for job creation, health delivery, and critical ecological balances? For that simple, communitarian creed separates us from both know-nothing yokels and scheming fat cats who mouth individualism while funding inquisitions to insure lockstep obedience.'

Austerity is nothing else but accelerated wealth redistribution - upwards to those who deserve it least.

Never Give Up On Being Exasperated! Occupy Outrage!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right on!!!!!! And let's restore the meaning of conservative too! Occupiers are the true conservatives. As Chris Hedges pointed out so well, it's the current regime of so-called conservatives that are actually radicals. It's us occupy supporters that are demanding the restoration of the rule of law. See Chris Hedges make the point so beautifully here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

Kevin O'Leary is a wholly owned corporate whore and Hedges sure tanned his hide, but the Kevin Koo-Koo is too damn stupid to get it that it is he who is 'very weak / low budget'! Thanks for that funny and illuminating link, which so clearly shows just how bought and biased most so called 'journalists' are, lol. Hedges Never Gives Up! He Occupies The Issues! & Conservatives must try to reconnect to their hearts!

http://www.nationofchange.org/mass-media-favorites-fall-out-favor-1355322115 and Occupy Democracy!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I completely agree. Great points. Thanks for the link :)

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I just want the American public to realize the game that's being run on them.

[-] 0 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

For 'the American public to realize the game', they could do much worse than to calmly reflect upon - http://www.nationofchange.org/right-s-sham-religion-rugged-individualism-1355328952 . Never Give Up Trying To see Beyond The Surface! Occupy Solidarity!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Awesome. Thanks for the link! Will check it out this evening.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21444) 1 year ago

Thanks for this great post, therising.

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Cheers. Thanks for the encouragement.

[-] -3 points by BurmesePython (-66) 1 year ago

No one should be forced to pay union dues. Unions should work hard to appeal to every worker and good people will see the benefits of union membership and WANT to belong. People are good and will always act in their and their fellow workers best interest.

Do you think people are inherently bad and will try to get a free ride by not paying dues? Thats depressing.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21444) 1 year ago

I think it is inherent in a capitalist economic system that employers exploit workers, and when workers are on their own, individually, they are powerless.

This whole matter in Michigan isn't really about forcing people to pay meager union dues and giving them their "freedom" not to. It is about breaking the unions so that corporations no longer have to deal with the power that comes when employees work together and eliminating any economic freedom they might garner by doing so.

[-] 1 points by BurmesePython (-66) 1 year ago

If the union does a good job why do they have to have a law coercing dues payments? From what i have the opt out part of dues payments is the killer for unions. Its A Catch 22.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21444) 1 year ago

I, personally, think unions have done a pretty lousy job in this country. This is one of the big reasons why American workers' wages and benefits have declined to the point where half of all Americans earn less than $26,000 per year. We need to either take our union system back and restructure it or we need a new kind of labor movement.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Absolutely.

Continuous Process Improvement - In All Things.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Criminals behind union busting laws

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yyyyyyup!

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Ohhhh, but the freeloaders should have representation they didn't pay for.

They had a choice to go to a non-union shop, did they not?

This CRAP is put in place to do ONE thing.

Destroy unions............nothing else.

[-] 0 points by BurmesePython (-66) 1 year ago

What freeloaders?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Obviously.......you.

By not knowing the reality of this BULLSHIT ALEC legislation.

You have a freeloading brain, unable to think for itself. Only capable of repeating corporate propaganda.

[-] -1 points by BurmesePython (-66) 1 year ago

I dont understand who is free loading. If you arent willing to help, ok.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Anyone taking advantage of the "right to freeload" legislation is a freeloader.

It's already been explained to you. I won't repeat it.

If you're that dumb, please leave willingly.

It's also YOU who has proven to be completely unwilling to be of any help at all, merely repeating corporate propaganda, almost verbatim.

Sick is what it is..........Sick in support of psychopaths.

[-] 1 points by BurmesePython (-66) 1 year ago

Goodbye

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You already said that once, the last time I forced some truth down your corporate gullet.

So are you going to make good on it?

Or are you still lying?

[-] -2 points by BurmesePython (-66) 1 year ago

No offense, but fuck you. I asked a question, pretty harmless, just trying to gather info. You seem very angry, i cant help that, but i can feed it a bit, since you arent informative, fuck you.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Offense taken asshole!!

I'm sorry you missed the information. That was YOUR CHOICE and it was a bad one, so don't say fuck off to me about your own failures..

There is NOTHING harmless about your mindless, uninformed support for "right to freeload" legislation written by ALEC, with the full support of many corporations, for LAZY ASS conse(R)vatives like Snyder.

Nor is there anything harmless about your not reading what was already said. It's fuckin' lazy.

You came in here passing lies, and I imagine you will still be doing the same on your way out.

OK I'm good now.

Go ahead and lie some more................:)

It's what you're good at.

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

By your reasoning, the 47% that dont pay any taxes are freeloaders . why should they get any benefits from the govt that gets its money from taxpayers?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Your 47% includes the elderly on Social Security, the low income who don't make enough to qualify to pay fed tax, & our military troops. Repubs criticize these groups and wonder why they lose elections. You can't disparage people for not paying taxes when they are doing nothing wrong.

Repubs call our troops, elderly and low income fellow citizens freeloaders, we aren't doing that.

The freeloaders shooz is referring to are those who would take advantage ofthe ALEC created anti worker right to work for less law.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

That's not true, and it's not an answer to what I asked anyway.

It's a whole different subject and it's already been shown to be a false statement. Look it up.

You just prove how little you know about the reality of this fucked up piece of Koch brother legislation.

[-] -1 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

47 % are freeloaders. generational welfare encouraged by the dems.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's not applicable. It's not germane.

Actually, if you were to look it up, you would find Wallmart creates welfare recipients. That would be (R)epelican'ts/conse(R)vatives/libe(R)tarians.....or whatever they're masquerading as these days.

Not as you say....dems.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1307) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

In a time of plenty in Egypt, the commodities trader Joseph (a favorite of the ruling politicians and prosperous class of leaders) bought grain. In the time of famine he sold it to his own people. The price was their freedom. Where is the Moses who can curse the capitalists and demand our freedom back?

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[-] 0 points by agkaiser (1307) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

The right to work laws first appeared in the 1950s after Brown v. Board inspired the secessionist racists to seek new slaves to replace the Jim Crowed blacks who were beginning to rebel. The scum today are the same threat to the human race they've been since the time of Moses. Joseph was the capitalist whose labor arbitrage sold the Jews into slavery in Egypt. The right wingers in MI and everywhere else are parasites like Pharoes and commodities brokers.

Seem scattered? Think about it. It holds together and is on topic.

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Hmmm. Need to think about that.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2726) 1 year ago

Chris Hedges

"They (Occupy) know precisely what they want: They want to reverse the corporate coup of that’s taken place in the United States and rendered the citizenry impotent.

Those who are protesting the rise of the corporate state are the true conservatives; They are calling for the restoration of the rule of law. It is the radicals who have seized power and have trashed all the regulations and legal impediments to a corporate or reconfiguration of American Society into a form of Neo-Feudalism."

Beautifully put striking the target dead center.

[-] -1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes! He really nails it!

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

A very good statement. The conservative party of note - has been taken over and abused - it has no relationship to it's name - thank the corpoRATists.

[-] 1 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

I don't really know but I'd venture to bet that the overwhelming majority of unionized workers in Michigan are municipal employees. And so I see this as a sign of the times, an economic symptom.

Contrary to popular belief, municipal employees will NEVER lose the right to collectively bargain because the ability to negotiate labor with a single entity actually benefits the politician - it makes his or her job that much easier. But unfortunately the political tide has changed and as a result of laws passed during the Reagan administration, many simply lack the necessary labor to budgetary leverage.

Protests in light of Prop 2, will only exacerbate this situation because they incense the public. It's this very reason - the desire to avoid public wrath - that many unions are being "busted," i.e., voluntarily agreeing to concessions.

I don't really like to get involved in issues like these - or express an opinion - because I am intimately familiar with the tension that exists between management and labor. And I know, it's a fine line.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The problem is the location of that fine line is manufactured. The politicians and business leaders from corporations are obviously in bed together and while corporations get tax breaks (or pay no taxes at all) and thrive, services for regular folks are cut out of "budgetary necessity". If the public actually knew what was going on with ALEC etc, then the corporate-political complex couldn't continue their austerity assault. It would ring hollow.

[-] 0 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

Yea, you're right. I'm going to concede while simultaneously reserving my choice to self empower in my fight against both the corruption of the government AND the corruption of the union. I'm going to reserve to myself the right to say NO, while denying it to everyone else.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You want to be a freeloader too!!

YAY freeloaders!!!

[-] 0 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

Yea... give me a big fat raise and I'll keep my dues, thank you very much.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What raise?

You know that's not how it works.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Although ALEC lost Pepsi, Coke, Kraft , and others -
they are too big to fail
And even if the lost 90% of their companies, koch can sneeze up the balance


BUT
Thanks to OWS and the flood of recent PR & MI & zimmerman - the stench of alec is becoming much more conspicuous


If you think you know America’s biggest threat,
..Koch ?
….Norquist ?
……Iran ?
………Boehner ?
………...McConnell ?
……………Murdoch ?

you are wrong –
……spend ten minutes with each of these


American Legislative Exchange Council

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
http://www.alecwatch.org/
http://www.thenation.com/article/161973/alec-exposed-koch-connection
http://www.americablog.com/2012/03/whos-behind-nras-stand-your-ground.html
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120411/OPINION03/204110317/1008/opinion01/Public-right-skeptical-ALEC


ALEC Corporate member list may not be up to date
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=ALEC_Corporations


2000 ALEC politicians by state they have lost a few! http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=ALEC_Politicians


.............................................BE AFRAID – VERY AFRAID


And FYI –

ALEC is doing everything they can do to create
a new constitutional convention [ Article V Convention ]
that can propose virtually anything:

All public schools – privatized
All medicare/Medicaid/SocialSecurity – privatized
No cap gains tax
EPA – gone
No corporate tax Guns for all
No inheritance tax

ALEC owns 2000 state politicians – Koch’s tp owns 50 house members How hard would it be for them to buy 50-100 constitutional convention delegates?


Tell me – what else do you think an Article V Convention could do?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh, I think you're quite right. Thanks for all the links. These are the scariest folks in the land. They're bringing more misery and destruction than just about any group in the nation.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

and it is OUR job at OWS to make sure everyone we know -
knows exactly that

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh yes! Absolutely :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is and always has been a program of conquest and subjugation - initiated and fed by Some of the very wealthy and many many business owners.

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We need to push push push right now and take advantage of this momentum!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You bet - we can not stop - EVER

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

No way. We're not stopping. No way. We're just getting started. Last fall was a warm up :)

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

RIGHT-ON

We are still developing our stride. {:-])

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes sir. Right you are.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Must be so - check out the down votes these posts/comments get. No big deal - it is actually pretty funny to see how it angers the corpoRAT supporters so much that they have to do something which means nothing other than to show that there are individuals here that are against a better world for all - even though that world would be better for them as well - shows the blindness we face in some individuals and their willingness to sell themselves to the pursuit of money.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

A brand new day is coming. The keys are in the hands of all Americans if we unify ;)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - and now we must learn to use our keys to open any and all good doors to the future. As well as to close and lock the doors to mistakes pollution poison corruption crime greed etc etc etc..........

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It's time. It's definitely time.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The people have started now we need to continue and grow Grow GROW in actions and strength and support ( involved individuals )

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

There's lots of fire just waiting for fuel.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I keep sharing what I find that is good - as I come across it.

So I think these added efforts should be special - otherwise we are putting in a lot of time for fewer releases out to the public.

[-] 1 points by cell81 (29) 1 year ago

Austerity is affecting the the developed world over because of the lack of improving the lives of a quantitative population within the developing world to improve the quality of life the world over. Corporations do this to create inequalities in competition. This failure to allow true competition is due to the corruption that dominates the world. If we cannot work together to solve the problem of corruption we will never solve the problem of inequalities.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree wholeheartedly. I think the key is to expose corruption to the light of day where the disingenuous shield of propaganda can't hide the true nature of what's being done. We can win this!

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1904) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" May 2, 1933 Adolf Hitler

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Wow!!!!

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1904) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Ain't nuthin' new

Just different actors and dates

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Bad actors :). Kurt Vonnegut wrote about that in his last book. Check this out: http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/72-72/6203-are-we-ruled-by-second-string-

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1904) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Very nice... and scary! Did you see any of his final interviews probably promoting the book? He said that our only [chance] was to form "gangs." And he described a sort of commune with varied talents. Doctor, mechanic, farmer, etc. But it was the getting together, uniting, that I like. My pet concept. Unite and Win! It will save us.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yes, it is.

It's a three ring circus.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Dammit this really pisses me off that these corporations have gotten away with this so far with unwitting well meaning Americans falling for ALEC propaganda. This has to be stopped. This whole fucking situation needs lots and lots of sunlight. The truth of what's really going on here needs to reach American living rooms, dinner tables, factory break rooms and office water coolers. We can't let this theft of our rights happen in the shadows with our own tacit support. We just can't.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Note: Fire Fighters and Police were left out of the change in status - exempt I think is how it was put. Just like in Wisconsin. Do they do that so they don't lose their support/commitment(?) of emergency and control services?

[-] 0 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - Thomas Paine

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Fire Fighters - Police please take note. The public is not your enemy but the quote still stands =

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - Thomas Paine

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

It could also be said this way:

It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.

Thomas Jefferson

"If the appeal to arms is made, it will depend entirely on the disposition of the army (or FF and Police) whether it issue in liberty or despotism." --Thomas Jefferson

Cheers

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - either way - it is a matter of keeping an eye on who you associate with support and why - and keep in mind that what they do to others is always a possibility of what they will do to you and yours. So - lets all associate with good people who have good feelings/intentions towards every living being society environment world.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Your post reminds me of this:

The Philosophy of Liberty

http://www.greencharter.com/files/intro.htm

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Very nice presentation - thx for sharing it. Bookmarked. There is much growth yet to come personally and as societies to achieve the unfettered society - but that growth and that society should be the aim/goal that we make our plans for.

http://www.greencharter.com/files/intro.htm

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Ironically, Mu'ammar al-Qathafi was heavily involved in the Green Charter and was one of the founders. Sure doesn't sound like "terrorists" words.

Cheers

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Who knows what is in the hearts of others - also - who knows to what lengths some people will go to - to see an end achieved - many over the course of life on this planet started out with awesome intent - only to fall on the road for one reason or another - often times it is an individual failing ( no one is perfect - look at the world ) other times it is forces acting outside of the individual that causes failure - generally it is a combination of causes.

Education/teaching/reaching-out inspiring receptivity is the way to go as we each make as much progress down the road as we can.

The will/want to travel the road must be there of it's self - the presentation was very correct in that you can not force acceptance of an idea/ideal - you can only offer it - to be accepted or not.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They're saving those guys for last.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh yeah. That is exactly what's going on. I've heard it with my own ears at such meetings. The political and business groups get together behind closed doors and this is how they talk. I've been inside those rooms when those discussions are happening. Those particular folks in those particular meetings were quite distraught when their words hit te light of day in public the next day, but that was just one meeting in one town. We need to do this thousands of times until the dirty stench of corruption has been eradicated using nonviolent tactics.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

We need to hear the recordings of such "meetings".

The ones where they speak their real intentions, before the propagandized press releases hit the public's ears.

[-] -2 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

Don't you think that a worker should have a voice and his right to work??

[-] 2 points by Buttercup (1067) 1 year ago

The worker has a 'voice'. Unions are democratic organizations Darling. They elect their Officers and Representatives. Jeesh.

http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/ElecOfficer/elecofficer.htm

[-] -3 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

That is what they do not need and that is comparable to being led around by a leash, Darling, Jeesh

[-] 5 points by Buttercup (1067) 1 year ago

Wait. You're saying being a member in fully democratic organization is ... dog-like?? What the hell is wrong with you?

Collective bargaining is called 'collective bargaining' for a reason. 'Collective' is the key word here. In case you're confused.

You implied the worker doesn't have a voice. When they absolutely do. And they have choice. Work in a union environment as a member of the 'collective'. Or find another workplace that suits them.

It's not that difficult. Follow the money. Who benefits the most from eroding the influence of unions? The worker? Or big business? ALEC members, Koch Bros, et al.

Hmmm. Let's see. 40 years of middle class wage stagnation. Big business getting bigger with monopoly-like powers. Corporate profits continue to set new records. Giving them even more wealth and power. Which they can wield over government. Increasing their wealth and power grab even further. So that the wealthy have realized their greatest levels of wealth in over 100 years. With wealth disparities at their highest point now since the Gilded Age. Which preceded the Great Depression.

We have decreasing social mobility. Lower than many other OECD countries. And record high levels of wealth disparity. Which leads to even more unequal educational opportunity, lesser economic opportunity and lower growth.

And you want to hate on unions? Uh ok. That makes sense! Followed by - sarcastic laughter. As in, spit inducing chortles, meant to point out your stupidity.

There are those that want to reduce the influence of unions. Because when union influence is reduced, corporations, the plutocracy, gains more power. And they are spending big money to do it. Because they know those lobbying efforts will equate to large returns on investment. Do you think they'd spend that kind of money without a return on investment?

The truth is, corporations, the wealthy, the plutocracy, they don't really need your help. They buy their legislation. But it's nice for them to have suckers like you to provide them political cover for it. Jeesh. Don't be such a dope, Darling.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

One party doesnt want any bargaining. The other ships all the jobs overseas.

How the unions could donate to either of these parties is beyond me.

They have massive amounts of cash and could really shake this system at its core.

Is it about time they create a "Worker's" party.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We have the 'Working families party' already

Do you think you know better than the Unions?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

'Right to work' for less is simply an attempt to undermine unions, and minimize their ability to support political candidates that support workers.

'Right to work' laws are and always have been an effort at destroy political opposition to right wing corp 1% plutocrat tools.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Indeed, that's what this ALEC legislation destroys

It's unions that give voice to the worker.

Not the Kochs.

Not the teabagge(R)s.

Not ALEC.

Not the GOP.

Not the US Chamber of Commerce.

Unions do.

[-] -2 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

We have to protect the Detroit Lions and the NFL Player's Union. I'm with you s(n)ooz!

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

More like the NHL owners ability to impose a lockout, rather than bargain.

Football fans are far too rabid and......well..................rabid. .

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - I have never been to a boxing match where a hockey game broke out - however.........................

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That is how it goes - address everyone ELSE 1st - then when that is accomplished and the furor has died down and the masses have become resigned to their new status - THEN they go after the others - quite possibly with total public support because the public will feel that they deserve what happens to them as it happened to the public at large already. Another example of use - of - divide and win.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh yeah. That is exactly what's going on. I've heard it with my own ears at such meetings. The political and business groups get together behind closed doors and this is how they talk. I've been inside those rooms when those discussions are happening. Those particular folks in those particular meetings were quite distraught when their words hit te light of day in public the next day, but that was just one meeting in one town. We need to do this thousands of times until the dirty stench of corruption has been eradicated using nonviolent tactics.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The Public MUST be educated to the reality of what is going on - what is being done to them - By WHO - and - For What Reason = PROFITS OVER PEOPLE/SOCIETY/ENVIRONMENT/WORLD/LIFE-ALL-LIFE

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yep, you should be pissed off.

This is a direct attack on the working man.

It is collusion, of the most insidious kind.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What pisses me off the most is that we the 99% have not banded together enough to short circuit the propaganda machine that made this possible. We HAVE the power if we REALIZE we have the power. We have the power as soon as we realize that we have more in common than we have separating us. If we'd realize that, we could begin making decisions from a position of unioed strength rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

I don't think we have to choose. I think Occupy is a fleet of ships in an armada, not one big tanker. http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-is-a-fleet-of-ships-and-there-is-no-they-in/ . We can hit on multiple fronts.

And by hitting -- I mean revealing the lies, exposing the scams to the light of day via direct action that gives mainstream press no choice but to cover. Those who are politically minded can do things like these 8 items: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ . Others can be out in the street pushing against the assault on labor or austerity measures.

At root it's the same battle against corruption. And a bright light is our best weapon in this effort. We have that bright light in our possession and we can shine it using nonviolent direct action whenever and wherever we wish.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Here's the propaganda machine in action.

FLAKESnews faked the attack on it's tent.

http://www.politicususa.com/americans-prosperity-fake-attack-tent-michigan-work-rally.html

In the other thread I had posted info on teabagge(R)s posing as real protesters.

Much of what I posted there was buried quickly by the libe(R)tarians that are infesting this site.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The propaganda machine is strong, deceptive and has no scruples. We can beat it though.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Not without the media access to flood that "market" with enough truth to stymie the likes of FLAKESnews.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We can have that access. Strategic nonviolent direct action brings coverage that makes it into living rooms. I'm talking about even larger than we've seen in the last 16 months. Last fall was just a warm up.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Sorry.

I'd like to believe that, but it isn't so.

The malfeasance in Michigan is already yesterdays news and there was no mention of the FLAKESnews, self manufactured violence.

The Koch brothers/teabagge(R)/ALEC connections barely noticed at all.

Not a word.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Lots of mainstream press covered the rallies and protests though. And those same average Americans saw exactly what happened with Walmart a few weeks ago. It's starting to sink in... :)

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I hope you're correct.

But like I said, it's already gone from the cycle.

In fact, most of what King Rickie is up to is already gone from the discourse.

Are you aware of the rider on this already fucked up bill?

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You said: "There was said to be 100,000 in Wisconsin.......................Didn't do a thing. There was 250,000 in Time Square..............................Didn't do a thing. Some 15,000 showed up in Michigan on very short notice....Didn't do a thing. The march of the corporation continues, with no avail to the workers."

I totally agree. It needs to get even bigger and it will. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. It needs to be massive. And it will be. Pot is reaching boiling point. 1% have overplayed their hand. The water had built up behind this weak corporate dam for a long long time and it's beginning to crack :)

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

If you can't tell, I'm feeling particularly low after this stealth attack on unions.

Snyder lied about his intentions, "right" up to it's introduction. then he backed it anyway.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Don't let it get you down - the more BS like this that they pull? The faster they will make their little worlds crumble. As they are stoking the fires of their own downfall.

[-] -2 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

Snyder is doing a lot better job than that useless Granholm did. Even you have to agree with that

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

NOT!

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Only if you support liars and corporate tyranny.

Which you obviously do.

So no, I don't agree with you at all.

[-] -2 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

OIC.

You like people that pee on constitutions.

It makes sense in light of your other comments.//////////////////////////Hey nimrod, maybe you should look it up and here is what I found. " the right to work is a constitutional right." So you were "half" right on that one. Thanks for playing

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Right to freeload is only in your own personal constitution.

The conse(R)vative court of Michigan has been pissing on our constitution for years.

Perhaps you've not heard of emergency mangers?

That's part of the problem, you think it's a fuckin' game.

[-] -2 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

I think Snyder is a lot better than the past Gov

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's because you don't care about the workers who are the backbone of this country. If you're brother worked in a factory and had to feed his family, you'd be singing a different tune.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

OIC.

You like people that pee on constitutions.

It makes sense in light of your other comments.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What rider are you referring to?

[-] 0 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

That's because you don't care about the workers who are the backbone of this country. If you're brother worked in a factory and had to feed his family, you'd be singing a different tune.//////////////////////////// It is signed into law so it is time for you to get over it and move on. Mich has joined the ranks of 26 other States that now have right to work. Right to work will be in every State soon then the union can crawl back under a rock, where it came from.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Ahh. I see. So you are one of the deluded who thinks that 1% of the population benefitting from a system while 99% do not is something that is sustainable. Well, good luck with that :)

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

The anti-abortion rider.

These teabagge(R)s never give up and do little out in the open.

The link is in the original thread.

I found it amazing how fast that thread was buried.

Wedge issues abounding.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You said "How much more lame duck crap are they pulling without us knowing about it? There's 50 more states they are active in." Let's expose it to the light of day with nonviolent direct action at every statehouse. This stuff penetrates the American consciousness. Sooner or later us frogs in the pale whip the cream milk into butter and we emerge into a larger freer life. Need to keep paddling man.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

There was said to be 100,000 in Wisconsin.......................Didn't do a thing.

There was 250,000 in Time Square..............................Didn't do a thing.

Some 15,000 showed up in Michigan on very short notice....Didn't do a thing.

The march of the corporation continues, with no avail to the workers.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We can win this shooz.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Man they are clever. Fortunately they are not invincible :).

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

How much more lame duck crap are they pulling without us knowing about it?

There's 50 more states they are active in.

[-] -2 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

The union thug that punched the fox reporter yesterday should have his ass kicked. What a coward he was to sucker punch someone like that

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You know that it was a union thug(?) and not a paid plant/instigator?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It was staged..........dip shit.

Like almost everything on FLAKESnews

Get your lies straight, or go home.

[-] -2 points by nidlaxto (-42) 1 year ago

If it was staged then why is there a warrant out for him?? The other media outlets are hushed up about this and that is no surprise. The other media outlets are also mentioning nothing about the "gift" of 20 F16's to Egypt by the obama admin

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

http://www.eclectablog.com/2012/12/breaking-americans-for-prosperity-stages-phony-altercation-at-michigan-right-to-work-rally.html

http://www.eclectablog.com/2012/12/fox-news-steven-crowder-americans-for-prosperity-use-breitbart-style-film-editing-to-show-union-thug-brutality.html

FLAKEnews lies. It's true you know.

You missed that whole ACORN thing then?

Missed the palm trees in the anti-OWS video?

All lies

It's what they do, along with all their GOP cohorts.

Lies from FLAKESnews.

[-] -1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Government and corporate collusion = Fascism

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's not collusion, when they BUY it outright.

It's just good "business".

Collusion is when they band together to destroy the hard earned rights of working people.

You know, stuff like ALEC. American for Prosperity, Heritage Foundation. That kind of thing.

[-] -1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

col·lu·sion [kuh-loo-zhuh n] Show IPA noun

  1. a secret agreement, especially for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him.

  2. Law. a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally, to defraud another of his or her rights, or to appear as adversaries though in agreement: collusion of husband and wife to obtain a divorce.

Government and corporate collusion = Fascism

I don't see how you can say collusion or conspiracy is just "good business" because money is involved. That is usually the case. Corporate and monied interests have bought our government - Is that just "good business practices" too? Most would say it's illegal and it ushers in the end of our democracy.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's no secret...........:)

You've proven my point, even if you didn't notice.

You've also proven my other point, as what corporations do with entities like ALEC, ARE done in secret.

Nobody knows. Who, what, or why. It's a secret. It's collusion.

That's what corporations and WallStreet in particular, are all about

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Cool - We do agree. What I'm suggesting is that although the groups that you mention are not just on the list; but at the top of the list; the collusion between government and corporations (& monied interests) is vastly more extensive than we imagine. Even if we cut the head off - it will grow back if the people don't have more involvement in their government. And I'm not talking about voting. Voting is not enough to empower the people. U R Right ........ too many secrets and secret deals.

Cheers

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Collusion in industry must be stopped.

All of it must be prosecuted and heavily fined..

A few heads in government must roll as well, but the real beast is on Wallstreet.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yep. I think Fox denouncing key players is a sham so that spotlight shifts and they will continue.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yep

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We can end this 3 ring circus nonviolently. We have the power if we choose to use it.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You mean we can just take the group of quasi libertarians and send them to any country in Africa? J/k. I know what you mean.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

They will self deport :)

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Preferably to those floating islands.

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Ha! :)

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Bi-partisanship is not possible in the world of Koch/libe(R)tarian/CATO....etc. collusion.

It's all about destroying workers rights, for the good of the profit margin.

http://www.freep.com/article/20121212/OPINION01/312120026/Editorial-Bipartisanship-no-longer-on-Gov-Snyder-s-agenda?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

GOP= the most divisive bunch out there, along with their FLAKESnews friends.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Notice that this thread, as important as it is, will be ignored for all kinds of wedge issues.

This is an evil, concerted attack on labor.

It should be considered collusion.Those who push it and support it should be in prison.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I completely agree. This corruption needs to e exposed to the light of day. The scam that's being run here needs to be exposed to American people. We need them talking about it at their dinner tables, in their break rooms and around the water cooler. This is major major shit going on here that is undermining the strength of our great nation and its backbone, the 99%.