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Forum Post: Tens Of Millions Of American Families Are Living On The Edge Of Desperation – And The Economy Is About To Get A Whole Lot Worse

Posted 10 years ago on Dec. 1, 2011, 1:47 p.m. EST by karenpoore (902)
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[-] 1 points by hbtotl (0) 10 years ago

You people are stupid and pissed because someone else found a way to make a buck and you could not. Everything is corrupt and if you are just figuring this out now then maybe you should just shoot yourself. Look at all of these people together bitching. How come all of you protesters just don't come up with a business idea and start an huge billion dollar company. Oh wait sorry that would involve "working". Sorry about that I used the W word.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

One in four kids are on food stamps. Have the older voter any clue what has happened to this country?

[-] 1 points by qazxsw123 (238) 10 years ago

Well, with people like this guy (WallStreeter turned politician turned bandit), it's clear where we're headed. This Corzine 'patriot' did not hesitate to go all the way, stole money from American customers, shareholders, taxpayers, consumers, etc., and then, what? Yep! 'transferred funds outside the country"

Well done!


(Reuters) - Regulators investigating the collapse of MF Global have determined that the firm combined money between securities and futures accounts owned by customers, and transferred funds outside the country to at least one entity, a source said on Friday.

[-] 1 points by OWSWhat (66) 10 years ago

The Gov has grown too large and they forgot that they work for us and we "do not work for them. They also have the capability to shut down the net if there is an increased amount of chatter to over throw the Gov. Now I just found out they they may be reading our emails. Google this "PRODIGAL" -- the Proactive Discovery of Insider Threats Using Graph Analysis and Learning

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

I would like to think they are reading our emails. We just want our voices heard and the corruption out not to overthrow ...

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

We've pretty much done this whole thing before.


Read that page. You will read it if you really want to know more about the current recession's long term impact. You won't read it if you just want to be right.

And read it, pretending it says '2011) instead of 1980s.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Thanks and I will go read your link, but remember we cannot keep having "done before(s)". The US is not sustainable ...

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

Now, you are very correct about that. We have to learn from our mistakes and Im stupefied that we didn't.. With the 1980s recession caused by the same things as now, and had the same major global impact including the crashing of foreign markets, you would think we'd have learned better how to deal with it. Reagan was out of touch with America (like Obama) and people had lost trust in him (like Obama.) But he turned it around and brought the US out of the worst recession we've ever had. Maybe just his getting the people to believe him. Maybe Reps and Dems worked better together then to find solutions. I don't know. But whatever they fixed it with then, they should be looking at now, and at the same time, figuring out what to do so it doesn't happen a third time. It should never have happened twice!

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

I sincerely believe that our government (owned by the 1%) does not care about the 99%. Profit is the name of the game now with the American people disposal and the majority not needed anymore. We are in transition of becoming more in line with other countries and our "middle class" will be no more. This transition of less buy, buy, buy and consumerism may not be all bad ... I feel the American people have given control to many aspects of their lives to others and are not self sustainable ... we cannot even feed ourselves! We had better learn how to build communities with people of different skill sets to become more sustainable ... and stop depending on the 1% and huge corporate powers because they could care less about humanity or our environment and between "automation" and slave labor overseas (for now) they have no need for the American people mostly.

[-] 1 points by OWSWhat (66) 10 years ago

Yes we are gong through a transition as you say and our Country will survive but we will as a whole be much poorer, except for the "chosen few". You can already see some of the transition taking place and one example is more and more people are "depending" on the Gov for survival.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

How much poorer do you think?

[-] 1 points by OWSWhat (66) 10 years ago

Makes me kind of emotional to even think about it because I think of my Daughter and two Grandchildren that will be going through this as well. As I mentioned before and you said you also see it coming, we are going to be facing some very tough times ahead. The Gov is either going to borrow more money or raise taxes, to stay solvent. The Rep are against raising taxes on the "rich" or so called "job creators", so I think the end result is that they will be borrowing more money. Also I heard that the debt ceiling that was supposed to be raised again by around Oct or so 2012, may in fact have to be raised again by this Spring. The Gov right now is following almost the same path we took that led us into the first depression and I think the path they have chosen is an irreversible one. You ask "how much poorer" I really do not know, but one thing I know for certain is that. During the first depression, many folks did not have a lot to begin with (material things like we have today) Now when we go into a depression, I personally think it will be much worse. Because we have so many material things that we may not all be able to use anymore. Also I personally believe that millions will be wiped out financially and when we do emerge from this there is going to be the "elite" rich folks and the poor ones. The middle class will no longer exist The economy as a whole will not emerge or fully heal until around 2020

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Thank you ... Here is something else I have been reading about since last night. Some say with this it will get bad after this Xmas holidays, but my husband thinks it will be after the holidays in 2013. Either way they say you either have your cash on you or you have gold, etc. because everything else will be lost. http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/epic-failure-the-supercommittee-was-a-super-joke

[-] 1 points by OWSWhat (66) 10 years ago

Thanks for the link and I will read up on it. My wife and I have been reading inserts from this man for the past three years Warren Brussee. He is a retired engineer from GE but has been following the economy for years and also has wrote a few books on the coming depression. So far his predictions have been about dead on and a lot closer than some of these college grad economist. Here is the link to his blog if you want to read up on any of it. He recently did an update in Dec but said that he wanted to quit doing updates because he thinks the depression is very near. Anyways here is the link to his blog site. http://wbrussee.wordpress.com/

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Thank you for this link. Do I understand correctly that Warren Brussee is the person that runs "the economic collapse blog"? I have been reading this blog for the last couple of years. We are in Austin, TX. Where are you guys? I think we need to keep in touch ... can I email you privately giving you our email address? I understand if you do not feel comfortable with this.

[-] 1 points by OWSWhat (66) 10 years ago

Yes that would be ok. Yes the same Warren that we have been following the past few years. We are in Mich, in a very small town

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

That is right. You have told me previously you guys lived in MI. I did not find any reference on Warren's blog regarding the website: the economiccollapseblog.com. I will email you our email address ... just in case.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Guess not ... have been reading his blog.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

karenpoore wrote: I sincerely believe that our government (owned by the 1%) does not care about the 99%. END ----

I sincerely believe that the infiltration of the government and corporations are fully prepared to take on a more destructive parasitic role with regard to the populations, because Americans are not focusing on becoming sustainable.

The nwo agenda of protecting the environment is simple. See that human life on the planet is down to 500 million. They have it set up so they can profit on part of that population while the other part dies off.

Article 5 is what puts the path to sustainability in the favor of humanity, which is already in the favor of humanities long term interests. With article 5 we can choose which sacrifices we want to make without sacrificing our needs like the nwo has us set up to go down here with the massive manipulations of economy that have taken place.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Thank you Chris. I have yet to read all your posts, but I will ...

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

We have a message board set up just for article V that has state by state forums. Slowly people are realizing the functional unity invoking the highest laws of the land stand the greatest chance of the unity and authority needed to deal with the problem more directly.


[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago


[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Thanks again!

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

We are starting long term strategy. I've made a thread with a poll to gather opinion on a set of amendments to start an article 5 convention that states ratify immediately to protect and empower the article 5 convention. The basic concept is to primarily address the campaingn finance issue and the media stranglehold on the truth relating to difficult issues that divide America. State by state postin at this forum especially designed for citizens working on article 5.


Next is strategy that will protect occupy protesters by making them a BIGGER law enforcement group than the police monitoring their protest in every way. The protesters will be directly defending the constitution and working to make congress accountable for 100 years of unconstitutional performance.

ON EDIT: Everyone needs to understand that law enforcement cannot do what you are doing. Each officer is subject to harsh and unfair aspects of the chain of command. Doing what you are doing as a protester is going far beyond what law enforcement can do in the current situation where a dark infiltrated government has turned day into night. They really have to watch their back within their organizations.

Your activities can free the best of them from that, whereupon their capacity to serve can use their conscience and understanding of the constitution in their social role of law enforcement. You will find your rights better respected. They will appreciate you for taking some responsibility outstanding in dealing with unreasona deceit and fears that they are subject to as mainstream society.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1220) 10 years ago

This is why Justifiable Debt Restructure is the quickest, most powerful way to cut our continuing losses and begin the process of localizing economies. There are two recent articles on occupynews that address this very issue.



[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago


[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 years ago

We are at a point where we are out of time for discussion and we need relief right now. These are American citizens that need help, right now.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

I know GirlFriday, I know.

How I wish this movement would have started 20/30 years ago.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 years ago

It isn't as if people have been completely absent. Many people are in the mix and they have been desperately trying to hold the line in this area over here while another group is working on this other area. Like treading water. Now, the problems are so immense that it is akin to drowning.

[-] 0 points by pinker (586) 10 years ago

Not to mention that only approximately 50 percent of eligible voters vote, which means they don't participate. I partially blame them. If people had been awake and participating, we'd be somewhere else.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 years ago

That is also true.

[-] 2 points by gmxusa (274) 10 years ago

That explains why the government is in a hurry to put the military on the streets and send complaining citizens to FEMA camps.


[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

Nice circle:) -

Article 5 will work. It is a re expression of the Declaration of Independence.

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Thanks for this. I have copied the post link and will read it in the morning.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

A recession is classified as a widespread decrease in consumer spending. We have had many, many recessions in the US, caused for various reasons. The 2008 recession lasted 1 year and 6 months but it is over. It is still undetermined whether the current economic state is a second recession or just showing a slow growth recovery or a plateau. Its almost too early to tell. Yes, I know all about the bailouts and loans and our debt and derivatives. But looking up at the sky and screaming the sky is falling just because there are satellites up there and a few fell, is not helpful. The 2008 recession was not our worst in history. The GDP is the highest its ever been. And based on consumer spending currently, we might have missed the doom and gloom prediction of a double dip recession.

Blogs aren't your friends. They are written by people with a little bit of knowledge and the wish to get more website traffic and the ability to market to you.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1220) 10 years ago

hey ramous, I disagree about your blog assertion. Internet curation is very important. Bloggers who are curating important articles or links to important sites are not the enemy.

Plus, twitter is now acting as an additional curation device.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

Curation amounts to mostly opinion though, and opinion is full of bias. We'll agree to disagree that people's opinions will replace factual reporting in any meaningful way.
Which, I understand that journalism is dying. People distrust the verifiable or credible sources now, and trust what they feel aligned with and so make their own news sources to align with their feelings and beliefs.
I was pretty in tune with the other members of our local Occupy till we disbanded it, and we were seeing it happen on a small scale. For example, if a verifible and credible journalism source reported an item 'A' which did not align with our members bias, and they found an unverified citizen reporter who reported that 'B' instead of 'A', that aligned more with their personal biases, they believed and repeated 'B'.
It does make me wonder if eventually there will be any vetted sources for information in the future.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1220) 10 years ago

Even journalists are biased. Back in 2008, the reason Barack Obama was not properly vetted on so many issues was the reporters did not want to get bumped from Obama's plane (not while in flight) and miss out on history being made.

lol, and I think the food was really good as well.

So, the reporters just went along with the charade of a guy who had basically advanced his career by using all kinds of legal chicanery.

For instance, disqualifying the petitions of his competition for office by challenging any discrepancy between the printed name versus the signed name.

For instance, getting a sealed court document opened so that he could embarrass his political rival when he was running against him for his senate seat.

For instance, voting "present" during actual votes on several bills.

For instance, writing a book about his deadbeat dad then less than a year later his mother would be dead from cancer. Not only was there no book about her more likely greatness than his drunkard father, but Obama then used his mother's dying and her "battle" against the insurance companies several times during his 2008 campaign.

Bloggers who take the time to review articles and take a position based on reviewing data from journalist articles can make salient points.

I would suggest that it is the journalists that are reluctant to credit bloggers when the blogger comes up with the initial idea or has already curated several articles onto their blog.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

Ok, I can see that. We certainly don't have Walter Cronkites anymore. Im going to agree that a major corner in trustworthy journalism was turned during the Obama campaign.
I have not seen bloggers make salient points, most make highly emotional ones that I've seen, to further a personal agenda. But I will take what you've said with a more open mind and look for wheat among chaff.

[-] 2 points by OccupyNews (1220) 10 years ago

I was completely neutral in 2008 regarding Obama and Clinton until early February when circumstances forced me to endure MSNBC for long stretches of a time.

Keep in mind I was among the uninformed, and even from that position of lethargy I started to notice this really awful bias against Hillary Clinton by MSNBC.

In short order I learned that Huffington Post was running some of the most biased coverage against Hillary Clinton I can ever recall coming from an alleged news source.

Further research revealed that Arianna Huffington just hated Hillary Clinton and had for years. I then on a hunch wondered if Soros and Huffington were connected. Turns out They appeared on same Charlie Rose television show. Soros may have also helped fund the Shadow Conventions that Huffington put on in 2000 and 2004.

So when I started www.hillary-wins.com in 2008, it came out of anger for what I saw as a rigged system. However, I definitely did research and found interesting mathematical data to back up my findings that there was a lot of dishonesty going on within the democratic party.

Here's one for you. Sixty Minutes just reported that in 2008 Nancy Pelosi purchased VISA IPO's around the same time that her leadership in the house of representatives was letting important credit card legislation die.

in 2008, Barack Obama was accepting pre-paid credit card political donations that had fraudulent names and addresses. The Obama campaign was literally accepting political donations from Mickey Mouse at Disneyland lane!

Obama was the only candidate who had such lax credit card donation requirements. The FEC refused to investigate even when official complaints were filed.

Is there a correlation between Pelosi, Visa, and Obama? It sure looks like it. Is anyone in the media going to pursue this? I don't think they will because they will lose access to the white house if they do.

[-] 1 points by owsleader2011 (304) 10 years ago

Bullshit. We're in a depression and the recession is OVER because the US government say's its over. You proclaim to be an expert? Then you would know that NOBODY reads US-STATS anymore, today all stat's that are legit come from shadow-stat's, and if you read their stat's you'll see we're in a depression. A depression is defined when you have more than 10% unemployment.

To beginners here who know something is wrong, there is only one good definition of this shit.

Recession: When your neighbor don't have a job Depression: When you don't have a job.

Today, we're in the greatest-depression in US history, and this one will last over 15+ years, and we're only in year 3 now. Fact.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

nobody reads US stats anymore. Well, you're wrong about that in that NOBODY does. Definitely, Occupy members don't, but I don't think you have your finger on the pulse of the rest of the country. They pretty much believe the recession is over, and the proof in that is this surge in holiday spending, the biggest black friday on record. The recession isn't over when the government says it is. A recession is over when people start spending again. Its Econ 101.

And about the source of statistics. Lets say you had two news sources. One posts, with statistics, that the recession is over. The other posts, with statistics, that the recession is not over. If they were both equally verifiable and credible, you might wonder who was actually correct. All things being equal, and both sources equally sound, credible and verifiable, one would probably tend to believe the statistics one wants to believe.

[-] 0 points by owsleader2011 (304) 10 years ago

I said people read shadow-stats the US stats are worthless don't reduce me to your moronic level.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Sorry, I know all about official stats and how they are manipulated. I use to work in a research department. You keep bringing up the 70s and 80s ... not relevant.

People are spending because they are stupid with no foresight of what lay ahead.

I am researching now on the super committee and 2013 budget for the US.


Or google super committee and 2013 budget yourself!

By the way, have a great weekend and I do appreciate your viewpoint and I am reading about the past.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Ha, tell this to the millions that have lost their jobs with no hope for another and have lost their homes and are living in their cars, tent cities, etc..

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

That happens during recessions. Please, you don't have to take my word for it, or get so angry because you want it to be one way, when its not. We've had worse recessions. You might be too young to remember how the inflation in the 70s was so bad they had to use price capping to control it so that everyone wasn't dumped into poverty levels. Or the recession in 1984, which had unemployment rate way over current percentage. Really, instead of listening to your friends opinions about what they want to be true, crack a book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

Or, is ALL news, data, and statistics everywhere and for all time, all of it incorrect if it doesn't fit in with what Occupy wants?

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 10 years ago

karen, its easy when you're an older person to take everything on the web as if its fact. Stop believing every joe blow with a blog. there are all kinds of nuts and crazies posting about HOW EVERYthing is coLLAPSING OMG! relax, take a deep breath.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

70s, 80s ... not the current situation where most jobs now are overseas and the American people have become disposal. I am 64 ...

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

Okay, have it your own way. His "blog" as you call it is back up with facts you can look up.

Our country is in this state because of attitudes like your ... Oh, everything will be okay. The US economy is NOT sustainable! This is just not the US but the world.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1220) 10 years ago

Karen, we have a couple of posters who are against ALL blogs. It's quite comical actually to hear their rants. If you want to keep track of dozens of economic blogs with RSS feeds all from one site, check out www.swarmthebanks.com

I'm always finding interesting articles there, and the articles all come from blogs.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago


[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 10 years ago

If this was supposed to hyperlink, it didn't take.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

This is the reason we are in an emergency of our own making just by neglect to an education into the true past of our government.


Therein is mostly explained why congress is not constitutional and not been so for 100 years. Accordingly, the federal government must be restructured to be constitutional. In order to address this maximum authority is needed, because the president and congress are standing by while constitutional destruction is being effected. Authority must go over them.

Article 5 of the constitution has such authority through the states legislatures.

Accordingly there is a sequence of demand, but it could fork also. First to Congress with an occupation there that has the purpose of notifying them that the 99% consider them to be in violation of the constitutio and their oaths. Each person of a state should address their representative in congress with this list of violations of law.

Federal law regulating oath of office by government officials is divided into four parts along with an executive order which further defines the law for purposes of enforcement. 5 U.S.C. 3331, provides the text of the actual oath of office congressional members were required to take before assuming office.

5 U.S.C. 3333 required you to sign an affidavit that you took the oath of office required by 5 U.S.C. 3331 and have not nor will violate that oath during your tenure of office as defined by the third part of the law,

5 U.S.C. 7311, which explicitly makes it a federal criminal offense for anyone employed in the United States Government to “advocate the overthrow of our constitutional form of government.”,

18 U.S.C. 1918 provides penalties for violation of oath office described in 5 U.S.C. 7311 which include: removal from office, imprisonment, and a fine.

The definition of “advocate” is further specified in Executive Order 10450 which for purposes of enforcement supplements 5 U.S.C. 7311.

Executive Order 10450 specifies a violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311 for any person taking the oath of office to advocate “the alteration…of the form of the government of the United States by unconstitutional means"

According to Executive Order 10450 (and therefore 5 U.S. 7311) any act taken by government officials who have taken the oath of office prescribed by 5 U.S.C. 3331 which alters the form of government other than by amendment, is a criminal violation of the 5 U.S.C. 7311. Such alteration without amendment is criminal violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311 and 18 U.S.C. 1918.

In 1939 the supreme court violated Executive Order 10450 specifiing a violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311


Acts relating to campaign finance are also unconstitutional and comprise “the alteration…of the form of the government of the United States by unconstitutional means"

A different fork of protest can go to the states capitols. Find who understands that protests need to be organized upon states legislatures. Understand some legal aspects too. Here is a letter template, resolution form that can be sent to state legislatures asking them to work for an article V convention.


Article 5 is our first and last constitutional right. If we don't use it now, we will not have any rights. Freedom is not free. Unity is cheap compared to the demise of the nwo default with confused sheep, not free.

Educate yourselves about article V.

Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk

Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

Article V conference, Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-other attendee video comments http://vimeo.com/31464745 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8

A method to show unconditional support for article 5.




[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 10 years ago

No, I did not do a live link. Select, copy and paste in above address text box.

While you are there you might have a look around if you want.