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Forum Post: Tax increases Republicans Want. Republican ARE the problem.

Posted 9 years ago on July 25, 2012, 12:01 p.m. EST by VQkag2 (16478)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Limiting eligibility for the child tax credit, which constitutes a tax increase on 12 MILLION families. This works out to an average tax increase of $800 per family. In the case of a family made up of one person earning minimum wage and two children, the tax increase would be much larger according to one estimate: $1545.

Curtailing tax credits for higher education expenses from $2500 a year to $1800 and reducing the years of eligibility from four years to two. This translates into an average tax increase of $1100 for 11 MILLION families.

Cutting back on the earned income tax credit for families with three or more children and worsening the so-called “marriage penalty” on working poor couples, which translates into an average tax increase of $500 for 6 MILLION families.



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[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Repubs lie when they claim they are against raising taxes. They are against raising taxes on their 1% plutocrat puppet masters.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 9 years ago

My congressman posted a release today about taxes needing to be lowered on small businesses.

I asked if he meant actual small business or big corporations.

I then proposed a solution. Stop giving JP Morgan 14 billion dollars a year in subsidies and give 280 million dollars in tax breaks to actual small businesses and middle class families from each state instead.

but my congressman is also a repub fraud. He works for Transcanada pretty much. It's been 80% of his focus over the past year.... even though Transcanada's permit application to the canadian government says it can be used to increase American energy costs by 4 billion a year.

As long as they finance his campaign I guess. Even though the people in my state already spoke on this issue... not in our state! We already had an oil pipeline break last year and spill oil all over our state.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Oil is so powerful. Dems in louisiana are also bought off by big Oil.

Most dems will vote against big oil if we make a real effort to drag them back.

And gettin back to taxes. It is obscene that repubs would support raising taxes on working families.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 8 years ago

"No tax" repubs love internet tax


Figures. regressive, hurtful to low income Americans and meaningless to wealthy Americans.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

who can afford children at all in these days of rent loans and low wages ?

[-] 2 points by Mooks (1985) 9 years ago

Everyone, with the government's help of course, can afford to have children.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

I can't

[-] 2 points by Mooks (1985) 9 years ago

Sure you can. Even if you don't have a dime to your name, what would your children need that the government wouldn't provide? I say go ahead and have a half dozen.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago


[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 9 years ago

So let's just not have anymore children. That'll show 'em. If humans went extinct maybe the other animals we are destroying would have a better chance for survival?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

very small percent of the people really can afford it. maybe........

I don't know..........


[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8300) from Phoenix, AZ 9 years ago

Give the 1% all the power and make the 99% do all the work is the Republican plan, has been for forty years.

[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

Wow, this is an important post. Timely, and very telling.

What this really equates to is this: The Repugnants want to stop investing in our children and cut our social programs like feeding people and GIVE the money they grubbed to the RICH. As if it's the RICH who have suffered through these hard times we've been going through.

It's actually amazing our economy is still coming back since the Repugnants have tried every trick in the book (with the filibuster as their cornerstone) to send the economy off a cliff.

The Repugnants have completely embraced the principle they pay homage to: The ENDS justifies the MEANS.

Come Together NOW

Stop the Repugnican Assault on the Middle Class!!!

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

We defeated the Repubs senate tax increases listed her. & forced them to allow the senate to pass the Pres middle class tax cut extension.

Now just the house repubs stand in the way of middle class tax cut extension.

[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

ANd, since the GOTP has sabotaged our congress making it the worst in history, going against all rational thinking, and making their battle cry of NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

They are totally incapable of voting for anything that has a hint of helping Obama let alone our beloved country. The middle class tax cut extension won't happen unless we get the extremists out of our government.

They are betting on the average American being ignorant and buying into their lies that will eventually, if we let them, clearly allow the RICH to run our government for US as they wish. And the whitewash of lies will be enough to make it happen. Who's watching the store?

Come Together NOW

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

It's not the tax reform we need. But it is a start. If we succeed we must go back and agitate for a 90% tax rate on millionaires and more tax cuts for the working/middle class.

Come together right now, over me" JL

[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

Very true. Tax Reform is needed. But there's many more issues to be considered. Global Warming looms large as it can destroy the world as we know it leaving us in a world none of us want. We still don't have Universal Healthcare which we will need to continue fighting for. But any one of things becomes extremely hard to get if we get Mittney Romdee as president in November. In the short term, I'm fighting to get Obama re-elected. This is where the fight needs to be. Then, this time, we need to put fire to Washington to get these things done. Obama can do it with us pushing from behind to bolster the power for change.

Come Together NOW

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I agree 100 %. Global warming IS happening. note the worst drought in a long time affecting 90% of american crops. Definitley can do more to push greentech (which will help middle class jubs/income), end fossil fuel subsidies (and all corp welfare).

Medicare (or some other public option) will cut costs for all Americans and will provide affordable universal care.

Pres Obama Cannot do anything unless we are protesting and pushing him to stay true to the progressive solutions we need. Same thing with congress. We must Elect progressives, and vote out pro 1% plutocrat republicans.


[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

That's exactly it VQ, you got it right. There's a big difference between pushing Obama and giving him the impetus to change things for better, and Mittney, who will laugh at us, and then ignore us.


Come Together NOW

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

There aren't enough of us on this site so it's good to know another one.


Stay strong.

[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

Absolutely. Solid and Resolute.

I stand up. It's habit I formed when I began caring about what happens in this world. I'm not watching. I'm in the game.

It is good know VQ. Once we become aware we never have to turn back. ANd we can be satisfied with this life that we did the right thing. The moment I stop fighting for what I believe I will be dead. Then I will welcome it knowing it was a full measure. Done and done. Completed the circle.

Good Luck, and Fight ON!

Come Together NOW

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 9 years ago

How exactly are you going to push Obama to change? It hasn't happened so far and I fail to see how voting for him again no matter how bad he is would give him an incentive to change. It is actually a disincentive to change.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

What tax increases do you support?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Do you really support a tax policy that takes from the 99% to give to the 1%?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Don't let republicans take our hard earned money to give to their lazy, greedy, selfish 1% plutocrat puppet masters.

Elect progressives, vote out pro Norquist, anti Buffet rule politicians

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Now we have a growing progressive OWS movement to put pressure on all pols! That is the difference! Unless we alienate dem leaning OWS supporters. Is that your goal?

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Protests, electing progressives, & voting out anti ows republicans.

"It's the only way to be sure"

[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

The biggest thing, this November, we vote the Tea Pea'ers OUT, and give Obama a congress that is not just thinking of the next election and how they can sabotage him at every turn.

Congress used work REAL. Do you remember?

DO you realize this congress is the worst in our history?

Venture a reason why it is?

Come Together NOW

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 9 years ago

So you're banking on things changing if we have a Democratic controlled house and senate like we did in 2009?

Obama 2012, Four more Wars!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Problem is - we will have another two years of gridlock - unless we can kick the corpoRATists out of office sooner.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

Defeat these repubs. This is why the RW extremists must be replaced with progressives.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

Repub tax policy is the problem!

[-] -3 points by bearclaw (-152) 9 years ago

The way you are expressing your hate, you should consider changing your username

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

you support raising taxes on the 99%?


[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

What's your authority?

(Thought so.)

Come Together NOW

through LOVE

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

It's Class War, the strategy is Shock Doctrine:


[-] 1 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

It's not class warfare. The GOTP are whiners. It wasn't class warfare when the RICH paid their fair share of the taxes under President Clinton during that robust economic period he was president. This class warfare claim is a smoke screen so the RICH not only don't have to pay their fair share of taxes but they want even more tax cuts. In fact, the GOTP declared WAR on Obama's Jobs BILL. And they won. America Lost. Look at Mittney's plan, it's Bush on steriods. Double down?

Come Together NOW

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

The Bush tax cuts for the rich (which Obama extended as ransom for the hostage taking RepubliCon Congress), were supposed to create jobs, but no jobs have resulted even while they made the rich FILTHY RICH ~ WORLD HISTORY FILTHY RICH!!! By Design: Shock Doctrine, in this ongoing Class War on the 99%!!

President proposes and Congress disposes: Obama should have asked for more and I believe he did, but Congress only spent what they did to plug the giant gaping hole Republicon Bush left in our economy! Probably the most important thing the stimulus did was save millions of lives (we know you Cons don't give a shit about that) from the devastation of abject poverty and the mutilation of military action conducted on the starving masses attacking the rich!!

People, do you want to get your way from government for a change??? GET OUT THE VOTE!!! Turn out a 90% and watch what happens!!! We will get the government that the 1% is enjoying by design!! Quit being manipulated!! VOTE!!!

[-] 1 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 9 years ago

Totally and Completely AGREE rpc972.

Of everything that could or may be done, this election is the biggest ACTION that will determine what kind of playing field we may have. A Mittney presidency will embolden the rich to finish us off. This is the truth. Mittney wants to continue the Bush tax cuts for the rich but on steriods this time. Does the 99% want to get screwed?

I doubt it. WE ACT NOW. Let's do it!

Come Together NOW

Good Luck rpc, I'm with ya!

[-] -1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

You too! Spread the word! And fight this "both parties same" sabotage!

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! Cuz we'll get stuck with the really fucking RepubliCon ~ Teabag AWFUL!!!

Get out the Vote! Watch the legislatures!!

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

Not that the American people could ever afford a majority, but how much does a GOP representative sell for these days? Are there futures contracts available? How about Mutual funds? Is this an opportunity?

Is there any group other than 1% of the 1% that they haven't attacked this cycle? I just can't think of one. Do people get points for political self flagellation? I just have all of these questions.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Answers are hard to come by.

Good luck.


[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

In compliment to this post - I attach a post with two petition opportunities to lobby for the extension of needed tax cuts and the end of wealthy tax breaks.


[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

No problem - this is what we are here for - Occupy supporters that is.

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

Before they start going after individual people and families, they need to:

Slash the military and intelligence apparatus by 95% (we'll be fine) Stop sending foreign aid. Stop bailing out the banks Stop bailing out the car companies Eliminate the cushy pensions and healthcare for the Senate and Congressmen, and get rid of the 5 star chef at the white house. They can go eat at Ruby Tuesday's.

Then they can start discussing how to fix the rest.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Well I was thinking 50% military cuts but I'll go with your number. Of no bank bail outs (more like seizing assets to create a public bank).

I do like investing in manufacturing jobs so auto industry might be saved. but cutting pols benefits/chef is fine, (not too much money their)

90% tax rate on $1mil income. eliminate all deductions loopholes tax shelters for the 1%


[-] 0 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

The only problem with the 90% tax rate is that you'll chase all the wealth out of the country. This has happened to the state of California and they're basically screwed at this point. It would likely cause more problems than it solves. Watch France over the next few months, they'll be a good case study.

Kyle Bass has suggested that you could raise rates 2%, push retirement into the curve a couple years, and Medicare D farther into the curve, with cuts to discretionary programs (like we talked about earlier) and we could be ok. However, that window to get OK is rapidly closing. I don't know if they're going to get it done. With the political climate, I think a total currency collapse is more likely.

Here's the Kyle Bass piece, it's really good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3kpKzd-Yw

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Can't we penalize anyone who tries to take their money out of the country? They made it here. And maybe we could ban them from doing business or visiting if they are so selfish and greedy. See how fast they get patriotic.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

There used to be laws preventing/restricting/stopping the taking of large amounts of cash outside of the US of A.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

They certainly keep track if it's over $10K

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

And that is a withdrawal inside the USA.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

And any attempt to remove as well I think.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

I do believe that you could be correct sir.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I suppose it could be legislated if the 1% didn't control the govt. But when we get money out of politics and the people rise up and exert some pressure we can do much.

We can always hope.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Where there is hope - there is life. And hard work helps too. Taint over till it's over.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


[-] 0 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

Capital controls are a surefire sign of an imminent collapse over history. Additionally, they don't work. All the wealthy already have their money in offshore accounts, or will be able to buy themselves and their money safe passage. It only stops the little guy from getting out, like German or Polish Jews in WWII, unless they're creative. The US can't be hermetically sealed like in the 40s, we have world trade, there's a million ways to get your assets out of the country if you're liquid and have alot of money, but I don't have that problem.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Yeah me neither. Oh well I guess we can't do anything. They got us beat huh?

Say I just saw that there is $32 tril in offshore accts. Couldn't we just freeze that in one fell swoop and take it all?

What could they do? They can't flee with their money. We will already have it.

No good?

[-] 0 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

The banks pretty much own the gov at this point. A lot of the Nazis got away with millions. I don't think that money will ever be seen again.

I've got skills, I'm sure you do to, I have a little cash, enough for a modest new start somewhere. We just have to keep trying and hope it takes hold. Maybe we'll be able to stop it. The Internet is our best chance and hope. It's easy to get depressed about it though.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Well it sounds like our cash will worthless.

"keep trying"?

You mean :protest, try to get money out of politics, agitating for improvement for the 99%, voting for pols who at least promise what we want then attempt to recall or defeat them on reelection if they reneg?

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

Yes, all that. When the people finally learn the truth, and eventually the truth will get out, the people will be PISSED! like march on the Bastille pissed.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Aaaah. July 14th. We have a celebration for that here in Brooklyn every year. It may come to that. Like you I hope it doesn't come to that. Lets work to change things before that happens.

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

Agreed, keep opening minds till we reach a tipping point in consciousness, then it will get alot easier. The protest helps too, it keeps the guilty on their toes.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Yeah and gives people hope. We have to put a spot light on how poorly the police are treating protesters. Abuse of power is rampant. If we get change there we would get more people at the protests.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

When are YOU gonna be pissed at WallStreet?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

Replace pro norquist conservatives w/ anti norquist progressives.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

This Republican Economy By PAUL KRUGMAN Published: June 3, 2012 927 Comments


What should be done about the economy? Republicans claim to have the answer: slash spending and cut taxes. What they hope voters won’t notice is that that’s precisely the policy we’ve been following the past couple of years. Never mind the Democrat in the White House; for all practical purposes, this is already the economic policy of Republican dreams. Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times

Paul Krugman Go to Columnist Page » Blog: The Conscience of a Liberal Related in Opinion

Paul Krugman Blog: 1937 (June 3, 2012)
More on the Economy »

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For Op-Ed, follow @nytopinion and to hear from the editorial page editor, Andrew Rosenthal, follow @andyrNYT. Readers’ Comments

Readers shared their thoughts on this article.

Read All Comments (927) »

So the Republican electoral strategy is, in effect, a gigantic con game: it depends on convincing voters that the bad economy is the result of big-spending policies that President Obama hasn’t followed (in large part because the G.O.P. wouldn’t let him), and that our woes can be cured by pursuing more of the same policies that have already failed.

For some reason, however, neither the press nor Mr. Obama’s political team has done a very good job of exposing the con.

What do I mean by saying that this is already a Republican economy? Look first at total government spending — federal, state and local. Adjusted for population growth and inflation, such spending has recently been falling at a rate not seen since the demobilization that followed the Korean War.

How is that possible? Isn’t Mr. Obama a big spender? Actually, no; there was a brief burst of spending in late 2009 and early 2010 as the stimulus kicked in, but that boost is long behind us. Since then it has been all downhill. Cash-strapped state and local governments have laid off teachers, firefighters and police officers; meanwhile, unemployment benefits have been trailing off even though unemployment remains extremely high.

Over all, the picture for America in 2012 bears a stunning resemblance to the great mistake of 1937, when F.D.R. prematurely slashed spending, sending the U.S. economy — which had actually been recovering fairly fast until that point — into the second leg of the Great Depression. In F.D.R.’s case, however, this was an unforced error, since he had a solidly Democratic Congress. In President Obama’s case, much though not all of the responsibility for the policy wrong turn lies with a completely obstructionist Republican majority in the House.

That same obstructionist House majority effectively blackmailed the president into continuing all the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, so that federal taxes as a share of G.D.P. are near historic lows — much lower, in particular, than at any point during Ronald Reagan’s presidency.

As I said, for all practical purposes this is already a Republican economy.

As an aside, I think it’s worth pointing out that although the economy’s performance has been disappointing, to say the least, none of the disasters Republicans predicted have come to pass. Remember all those assertions that budget deficits would lead to soaring interest rates? Well, U.S. borrowing costs have just hit a record low. And remember those dire warnings about inflation and the “debasement” of the dollar? Well, inflation remains low, and the dollar has been stronger than it was in the Bush years.

Put it this way: Republicans have been warning that we were about to turn into Greece because President Obama was doing too much to boost the economy; Keynesian economists like myself warned that we were, on the contrary, at risk of turning into Japan because he was doing too little. And Japanification it is, except with a level of misery the Japanese never had to endure.

So why don’t voters know any of this?

Part of the answer is that far too much economic reporting is still of the he-said, she-said variety, with dueling quotes from hired guns on either side. But it’s also true that the Obama team has consistently failed to highlight Republican obstruction, perhaps out of a fear of seeming weak. Instead, the president’s advisers keep turning to happy talk, seizing on a few months’ good economic news as proof that their policies are working — and then ending up looking foolish when the numbers turn down again. Remarkably, they’ve made this mistake three times in a row: in 2010, 2011 and now once again.

At this point, however, Mr. Obama and his political team don’t seem to have much choice. They can point with pride to some big economic achievements, above all the successful rescue of the auto industry, which is responsible for a large part of whatever job growth we are managing to get. But they’re not going to be able to sell a narrative of overall economic success. Their best bet, surely, is to do a Harry Truman, to run against the “do-nothing” Republican Congress that has, in reality, blocked proposals — for tax cuts as well as more spending — that would have made 2012 a much better year than it’s turning out to be.

For that, in the end, is the best argument against Republicans’ claims that they can fix the economy. The fact is that we have already seen the Republican economic future — and it doesn’t work.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I am well aware of this sham. Krugman is excellent. Dems are poor communicators. repubs are relentless, on message, constant repetitive lies, "Obamas economy, he got everything he wanted" and many others.

I've heard precious little in dems rhetoric that the trickle down/austerity strategy the repub conservatives push created out problem. Americans are hard to reach in the media induced cloudy stupor we live in. But 12 years ago South America rejected IMF trickle down austerity and have thrived. The people in euro union seem to reecting austerity as well so they may finally make progress.

We can't resolve the pluto created problems byb cutting services to the middle class.

90% taxrate on millionaires income.

It's the only way.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

First: RepubliCons don't have to worry about lying, facts, hypocrisy or consistency. They just spew out whatever...

Second: The few would-be Kings in the 1% who own RepubliCons, also own MSM. So unless it's absolutely necessary to maintain any credibility whatsoever, MSM does not scrutinize Cons, or report Dem successes or arguments.

Third: Dems do not have a 24/7/365 dedicated Network spewing Progressive-Liberal-Sensible policies-ideas-promotions-attacks like Fox Lies. RepubliCons have some 300 RW radio stations spewing RW Hate and Lie Speech countrywide, in every city 24/7/365, and Dems don't. It's important to note Dems would not have either one of these out of a common sense of decency and ethics.

Fourth: Dems have the handicap of a common sense of decency and ethics, and integrity, independence, and disorganization as made famous by Dem Will Rogers: "I don't belong to any organized party. I'm a Democrat." http://hopeandpolitics.blogspot.com/2008/03/will-rogers-i-dont-belong-to-any.html

Fifth: Dems always reveal tax returns and tax havens and drugs they took and community organizing and chicks they bang, one way or another.

Sixth: Dems care about America, the people, democracy, and justice; and Cons DON'T!!

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

You lie!

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I absolutely agree.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Colbert is the best. Saw it.

[-] 2 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Good man, your trees must all be the right height and ready for the Olympics, but are your cookies from 7-11??

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Romney is in full damage control mode this morning. What a moron. See if he screws up in Isreal.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Romney promises blind allegiance to Israel -

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Saw the speech. Pretty transparently pandering. Shortsighted. And ignorant. See what happens today. He says he won't criticize Obama while overseas.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Think: Are they unconcerned like with W because they can manage that damage? Or are they running Mitt as decoy to bring in a Christy at last minute? Or is Voter suppression the whole game??

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Voter suppression is a big part of the game. Romney is a sort of figure head except that he fully supports the plutocrat agenda. Not Christie. Not sure who, but more likely not a north easterner.

It will be a miracle if they don't steal this election.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

They have to have a known candidate, their base is very slow. It's got to be a decoy (if it works, fine) for the state and fed legislature! Too much exposure in the WH, their only regret with W.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

I think Romney is a total fool. But having this turn into a global disaster PR situation is why we always end up with weaklings in politics.

What self respecting human being would put up with this?

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

So now your against college for all? Why does it have to paid for with property taxes? Why does it have to be 33%. Thats excessive!

We already pay a good portion through Pell grants and state residency discounts. Maybe we should have corps pay a tax to pay for college tuition. Corps benefit from an educated citizenry? In fact perhaps we should transfer the current education costs paid through property taxes and have corps pay some of that also. Lets cut the property tax on all middle class elderly owners. In fact lets extend that property tax discount to all lower class owners. We could increase wealthy property owners property tax.

We could put a tax on every financial stock transaction (like your Justice party guy suggests). Lets use that for healthcare costs too. And you know what else.? Lets charge every church property a property tax for school/healthcare. That sounds fair.

So we don't have to raise any middle class property tax. We can cut it. for the middle class.

Ok? Hows that?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Republicans are pushing this plutocrat because they represent only plutocrats. Unashamedly, proudly trumpeting the conservative policies that benefit the 1%.

Romney promised to repeal healthcare reform, Fin reform (already watered down by corrupt republicans), To extend the bush tax cuts for the 1%, and add more, he promised to support the ryan budget that adds more tax cuts for the wealthy and takes from the poor, sick, and elderly.

He is more than a fool. he is a 1% plutocrat tool. he stands against the 99%. He is evil. He along with his republican co conspirators ARE the problem.


[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Each side ot the political machine tailors its messages and promises to a certain mind set. The right does the same thing. And their voters blame games are exactly the same. This is not an accident.

Mass psychology runs each party's messaging, controlling it. Its not an accident. Each side blames the other. There are many good points on each side about the other, but their classifications are usually flawed because each side doesnt want too much of the truth getting out.

Emotional sound bites work best.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Well thats a polite way to sidestep and water it down.

Romney is one the 1% plutocrats who avoid paying taxes he is a tax cheat.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Romney hasn't paid any taxes for 10 years. He is a tax cheat. Like so many 1% plutocrats he is hiding his money to avoid taxes.

Is that just campaign slander attacks, or is that a great attack based on the truth?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

The IRS could clear-up the question. They wouldn't have to release the records that would still be up to mittens - but they should be able to say if mittens did not pay any taxes for that period of ten years - they would perhaps have to say why this was OK with the IRS - but there ya go.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Listen, each person has done some pretty awful things. We can shit sling for each one all day long.

Bottom line is these are the types of people the DNC and RNC are giving us to choose from, because whats good for the nation is NOT what they are about.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I'm not talkin about their message. I'm talkin about their actions.

Romney and repubs are taking action against the 99%.

Why would you defend them?. I thought you were against both parties?


[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Where did you get that I am/would ever defend them? How do you manage to go back to this every single time with multiple people on this site night after day after night?

I really think you do this on purpose to try to get people upset.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago
[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Shock doctrine. 9/11 perfect example. it's despicable

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

7-11 Romney-reference cookies.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Was that in PA?

He is such an outta touch plutocrat.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

We see it too clearly. They are throwing it, or he is a decoy.

[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 9 years ago

The plutocrats own both major parties. Both parties do whatever their owners tell them to do.

[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 9 years ago

The plutocrats own both major parties. Both parties do whatever their owners tell them to do. This has been especially true ever since they had JFK assassinated.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The plutocrats are squealin like stuck pigs over the dem fin reform and the dem health reform even though repubs watered it down.

the 1% money is going mainly to repubs who have promised to repeal them.

The parties are vastly different.

Elect progressive. vote out pro plutocrat republicans



[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I don't disagree with the premise of your youtube guy. He suggests only that we "sit back and watch the ebb and flow".

Can I ask what you are advocating?. Are you suggesting a course of action?

What are YOU doing about this situation.

Let me know. I'm honestly interested.



[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Bottom line- doesnt matter who gets elected, the taxes are going to go up and the social services are going to be cut.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Nah. dems will cut working/middle class taxes and expand programs for the working/middle class as they have (Pell, Health care)

And repubs will raise working/middle class taxes (as I have suggested here) and cut working/middle class services (Ryan budget, Supported by Romney).

At the same time Repubs have pledged to retain Bush tax cuts for the 1% and give them further tax cuts. As well as repeal the watered fin reforms that repubs already watered down.

It's Obscene. The parties are vastly different. One is working to help the 99%. The other is working for the 1% at the expense of the 99%

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

"will" ....keep focusing on what they SAY they are going to do.

I'll look at 20 years of voting records.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

How about todays votes. you wanna ignore the fact that dems are voting to retain middle class tax cuts. And repubs won't unless the 1% keep theirs.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

It goes both ways. They both want the middle class to have em, but one wants the 250k crowd to keep em too. If it doesnt get passed, the inflation will tax them much more than that.

I'm seriously disturbed that 98 Congressmen voted to not put the Central Bank on Blast. 97 Dems and 1 Republican.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The Dems did pass fin reform that included the 1st fed audit in history. So that's something. Who knows why they didn't vote for it. Maybe they were suspicious because so many repubs supported it. That's enough for me. I'm one of those that look at the fed as some extra complicated scam.

But getting back to the taxes. It ain't ok to hold up retaining working/middle class tax cuts for the wealthy.

Sorry that vote shows the repubs are working for the 1% against the rest of us.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago
[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

very creative. Writing is a gift. good luck dude.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

actually, I was pleased with my singing

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I enjoyed it. but I wouldn't quit my day job.

And the soldiers operating the drones, tanks, planes, guns, are not murderers because it is covered under some code of war.

Sorry I don't make these rules.

But. I am against our current military actions

End the drone attacks

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

I enjoyed it. but I wouldn't quit my day job.

fuck you

never talk to me again

you've been brain washed

Sorry I don't make these rules.

only perpetuate them

old military actions never look the perp in the eye when they dropped bombs

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

No reason for the vulgarity. We need to treat each other as if we will be working together for a long time.

I AM against the drone attacks. I can't agree with your position 100%.


Peace. I am not your enemy.

I will not talk to you. You don't have to respond.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

No reason for the vulgarity.

but I wouldn't quit my day job.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


Already quit my day job.

& I can't sing

[-] -2 points by NS88 (-23) 9 years ago

Yes. Kill every conservative in the nation!

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

That sounds like a republican response. Knee jerk, immediately resort to violence.

I don't wanna kill anyone. I just want the money they took, back. They are hiding $21trillion overseas. We should start with that.

90% rax rate on income over $1 million. All income! (cap gains, passive, carried interest, whatever)

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 9 years ago

GDP, 1.5 growth rate for June!!!!, slowest in Months Thanks Obama

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

thats 1.5% for the 2nd qtr. get it straight. And 1st qtr was revised up to 2%.

Better than your boy Bushes triple qtr negative growth he left us. Better than the 750 thousand job losses per month your boy Bush left us.

This is a great improvement over the corrupt repubs. And we could have had much better growth if your repubs havent abused filibuster, obstructed, delayed, and/or watered down every one of Pres Obamas legislative attempts at fixing this republican created recession.

So yeah thanks Obama for creating some growth even in the face of massive treasonous republican attempts at tanking the economy.

[-] -1 points by bearclaw (-152) 9 years ago

Yes great improvement!!!!! Obama since taking office has taken our Country backwards. He is sending us back to the stone age, need to vote him OUT!!!!

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Stone age? Thats ust ridiculous. He has made slow progress ('cause of repub treasonous delay) on improving yourrepublican great recession.

Elect progressives! Vote out traitorous pro 1% plutocrat republicans

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 9 years ago

Obama = another step backwards for mankind. Created more debt than any other Pres in history.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The annual deficit and therefore the additions to the debt we've added in the last 3 years was left to us by the corrupt, reckless, irresponsible Bush, and repubs.

Just as the dems left Bush a surplus in 2000 that he and his pro plutocrat repubs squandered into an annual $1 trillion dollar deficit.

Pres Obama has attempted to correct Bush economic damage, but your repubs have obstructed, delayed, and/or watered down any attempt.

Republicans ARE the problem.

Elect progressives. Vote out pro 1% plutocrat republicans

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 9 years ago

Yes he sure tried to correct it by putting us another 6 trillion +++ in the hole, not to mention his mountain of failed policies

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The trillions added to the debt were left to us by the corrupt republicans. Pres Obama has added less than any modern president to annual budget.

He has cut more from the fed budget than Bush as well. He would have resolved the annual deficit if not for the traitorous acts of delay, and obstruction by your republicans.

Republicans ARE the problem.

Elect progressives. Vote out pro 1% plutocrat republicans

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 9 years ago

This is what happens when you elect a dumb liberal for President. You get a failed economy. Liberals are for spending their way out of debt

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Obama is moderate.

Cutting spending is repub attempts at fixing the economic problems created by their 1% plutocrat puppet masters.

We must take from those 1% plutocrats who crashed the world economy with a 90% tax rate on millionaires.

It's the only way.

To resolve the economic problems we must cut taxes, and debt for the middle class consumer job creators. Pay down debt with the resulting economic growth and the new revenue from the new 90% tax rate. As well as cutting military spending by 50%. (we'd still be more powerful than all our adversaries combined)

It's the only way.

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 9 years ago

OWS will never make a change for the good for our Country. The OWS numbers have dwindled so much that their is only a handful of members left, yet the Tea Party continues to thrive

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

We'll see boss. One group represents the poor working class, immigrants, womens rights, LGBT equality, Minority rights.

The other is just old white overweight, exclusionary, gun nut, christian fundementist right wing wackos, who don't care about anyone but themselves.

We'll see

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

I think you're the problem...the people who are blinded by their ideologies and think this is a repub vs. dem issue.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Yeah we know what you think. You say "the parties are the same" I say- It ain't Repub vs Dem. It's plutocrats vs the 99%. This tiny step simply shows your repubs will defend the plutocrats at every turn.

You give your repubs (and therefore the plutocrats) cover by pushing the fallacy that this doesn't matter.

it's a Tiny step 'cause this is all your plutocrats/repubs will allow. Its up to the people to demand more tax cuts for working/middle class and a 90% tax rate on the 1% plutocrats.

Your blind to the small steps of progress, and so you prevent us from getting more.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

I'm not a republican....stop calling me one.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Just anti dem. You Just refuse to see the real difference between the parties and thereby malign the only possible progressive representation we might get.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

I'm not anti-dem...i love dennis kucinich....and i can't stand romney. Stop making up crap.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Yeah riiight. Well guess what? Kucinich Votes with the democrats 10 times more than against 'em.

Is his voting record meaningful to you? Do you know better than him.

Or maybe you;re just anti dem and use Kucinich as cover 'cause he speaks out against the dem party?

Did I get that right?

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

actually no...you didn't get it right. You're pretty much pulling stuff out of your a$$....it would be like me telling you that i know you love the republicans....doesn't make a whole lot of sense right? Because i made it up...just like what you're doing. You assume i'm a republican because i agree with them on a few things...doesn't make me republican.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

No because you serve the repubs by pushing the fallacy that the parties are the same. (they ain't) That minimizes the crimes of the repubs and ignores the progressive positions and progress the dems have made and/or attempted.

What do you agree with repubs on.?

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

"No because you serve the repubs by pushing the fallacy that the parties are the same."

Really? Lets take a look at what Obama has "changed":


You could say i'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And i don't support the military industrial complex.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Your list misleads people into believing Obams is the same as your war criminal Bush.

He ain't.
He has resisted your war mongering repubs pressure to invade Iran.

has not invaded any other countries with 1/2 a million troops. Ended your boy Bushs illegal Oil war. begun the ending of Afghan war.

Ended US torture, ended Bushs acceptance of waterboarding, not added any indefinate detentions, closed secret CIA prisons, ended extraoardinary renditions,

You serve the repub 1% plutocrats when you use misleading statements to minimize repub crimes, and ignore the progress dems are fighting while repubs resist.

Please, I don't believe you. You seem like a repub shill to me.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

Obama - First president to assassinate american citizens without due process. Here's the dangerous terrorist that he assassinated (they also killed his 16 year old son)...waterboarding is bad....but pretty sure killing people is worse:


Bush was the same and started this direction for the country...but Obama has taken the reins and sped up the process. NDAA much? Remember that thing he vowed to reject? Just imagine when the next repub is in office and has that type of power...i'm sure that makes you feel safe.

Resigned the patriot act. Escalated drone war in Pakistan...proxy war in Somalia, drone war in Yemen, waged war in libya without congressional approval, personally oversaw a secret kill list, continued bush's rendition program.expanded US military bases overseas..etc. etc. etc.

"The U.S. is NOT leaving Iraq or Afghanistan, as Obama claims Feb. 7, 2012 - The CIA is expected to maintain a large clandestine presence in Iraq and Afghanistan long after the departure of conventional U.S. troops as part of a plan by the Obama administration to rely on a combination of spies and Special Operations forces to protect U.S. interests in the two longtime war zones, U.S. officials said (read)."

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Nothing you mentioned rises to 1 10th the damage done by your republicans under your boy Bush.


I much prefer this Presidents use of my military. It represents a great improvement over your republicans criminal abuse, notwithstanding your misleading anti dem attacks.

Things can be better if WE recognize the progress, support dems fighting for progress, against republican resistance, and protesting, agitating for more progress.

Not by misleading people to be against the dems who ARE fighting for progress and ARE beginning the long process of undoing the mess repubs created.

The plutocrats (and there republican tools) are not giving up power easily. If we turn on the people who stand with the 99% against them we are serving the 1% plutocrats.

And that is what you do when you attack dems unfairly. But that is your goal isn't it?

Republicans ARE the problem. Attack them. Elect progressives.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

I'm sick and tired of your republican pandering....stop being a shill for the right.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

You've started talkin' to your self Johnnie. Maybe you should take rest. Have some liquids.

Good luck republican boy.


[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

Actually showing you what its like when someone completely makes $hit up.

Good luck no-facts-kag

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I didn't make anything up. Thats a lie. I offer my observatins, and opinions.

FACT: You attack dems for being same as or worse than repubs when they are vastly different and better.

FACT: That is what the 1% plutocrats want!

FACT: Therefore, you are doing what the republican 1% plutocrats want.

Maybe you don't realize it.

OPINION: I say you do realize it. I say you knowingly perpetrate the fallacy that the parties are the same to discourage OWS progressives from voting for dems and defeating the republican 1% plutocrats.

FACT: I'm not makin anything up. Sorry your accusation that I'm makin stuf up is a lie.

SUGGESTION: Vote out pro 1% republicans.

OPINION: It's the only way.!

[+] -5 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

47% of all people don't pay any Federal tax. Where is the fairness when half the population doesn't pay into the system. That is called stealing.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

So you want to raise taxes on the poor.?


The 1% plutocrats are hoarding $21 trillion of our money in hidden overseas bank accounts like you boy Romney. That's where we have to raise taxes not on the people who don't have enough to eat.


[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

Everbody should be treated the same and fairly. So we should cut spending and lower taxes.

Of course people will attempt to avoid taxes, that's always the point.The people don't have enought to eat because your boy Obama is a rookie an dhas no idea what to do. His comments last week regarding people not creating their own businesses just creates more uncertainty.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Repub dishonest talking points. Pres Obama referred to roads & bridges. Your Plutocrat Romney also stated no business is created by one person without the help of other people and govt.

THAT is the American way.

90% taxes on income (all income, cap gains, passive, carried interst) over $1 million. That is fair.

Expand services for working/middle class. triple Pell grants, Medicare for all. massive greentech/infrastructure job creation investment.

It's the only way.

Elect progressives, Vote out pro Norquist, anti Buffet rule republicans.

[-] -2 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

Republican talking points or Democratic ones? He showed his true stripes.

Yeah, that sounds real fair to tax our best performing people over 90%. You obviously have never achieved at anything your whole life and are bitter about it.

Nice job by the way on today's GDP report. What happened, your economics doesn't work?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I've achieved just fine thank you very much.

I know you repubs prefer the politics of personal destruction but leave my personal life out of this.

The 1% are the worst performing. they don't create jobs in America. they suck all money and hoard it. just the other day there was a report the $21 trillion is being hidden in offshore accounts like your boy Romney. The middle class consumers are the real job creators.

The GDP was low. But positive. Your boy Bush gave us 3 qtrs of negative growth!, 750 thousand job losses per month for 8 months! Your boy Bush and his corrupt republican plutocrats crashed the world economy, left us $1 trillion annual deficits, lost 40% of our home value, and an unemployment crises going on 4 years. they gave us the great recession.

And when Pres Obama tried to correct the republican damage your repubs in congress abused the filibuster and obstructed, delayed, and watered down every attempt.

It is treasonous.

Republicans ARE the problem. Elect progressives. Vote out pro Norquist, anti Buffet rule republicans

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

So Obama had two years of a Democratic Congress and couldn't get his bills through...HARDLY.

Yeah, the Republicans abused the filibuster, how again did your boy Obama get his healthcare bill through? Forgot that did you?

The 1% are the worst performing? This I have to hear, what piece of evidence do you have to back up that claim.

Bush, by the wa gave us many quarters of growth and low unemployment.

You Democrats are the ones pushing the personal destruction. How do you think Obama got into Punahou? What happened after that? Romney wouldn't have hired him at Bain.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Health care got past the traitorous republican abuse of filibuster by throwing out the public option to get a couple of moderate northeastern repubs. on board.

!% are worst performing because they crashed the world economy, lost 40% of our home value, and created an unemployment crises going on 4 years. They spent 30 years rigging the system to get low taxes/regulations for themselves under the suggestion they would be the job creators and tinkle down the wealth to us.

Instead they sent our jobs overseas, kept our wages low, stole our pensions, busted our unions, raised our healthcare premiums, and more.

So since the 1% failed to deliver on the job creation, and haven't tinkle down the wealth, they have breached the agreement and they should be made to give our money back. With interest! 29.99%. Thank you very much.

Bush: He crashed the economy with his 1% plutocrat friends for the express purpose of giving them one last gift of 1 trillion dollars before Bush left office.

Bush lost almost 8 million jobs in the last year and 1st 3 mo of Pres Obamas presidency. Bushs job loss didn't stop until Pres Obamas stimulus plan went into affect. President Obamas rescued the country from Bushs Great recession. We were told we were on the precipice of another great depression and Pres Obama prevented that.

Pres Obama saved the country in spike of treasonous obstruction from your republicans. The recovery that Pres Obama created would have been much better if your repubs hadn't resisted, filibustered, delayed, obstructed, and watered down every effort to create jobs.

Hope helps you understand.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

The rules to get a bill passed in Congress are the same for all. The Dems didn't have enough votes to pass it and had to put it in s reconciliation bill. No wonder it has no support.

This country was formed on freedom and liberty. People have the right to their own pursuit of happiness. It is their money to spend, not yours.

Obama has implement his plan for govt control and the economy is not responding. Govt control does not work. This has been proven many times but you don't want that because it eliminates your power.

Obama is also sending govt contracts to his friends and donors from the dem party and this abuse just scares the business community.

He is going to lose in Nov and we can get people to work

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Americans support the elements of the health care reform.

children cover on parents plan 'til 28 yrs old,
ins corps can't kick you off when you get sick, ins corp can't deny coverage if you hv existing condition, closing medicare prescription donut hole. cost cutting, affordability.

We got our foot in the door so eventually we will put the private ins industry out of business and ceate medicare for all. Repubs are against it because it hurts their 1% plutocrat puppet masters in the ins/pharma/etc industries.

"Obamas ...plan for govt control" of what? what plan. Sounds kinda wacky. He did a small amount of stimulus ($780b) $250b went to small business tax cuts, $250b went to states for retaining jobs & unemployment insurance, & $250b to invest in infrastructure/green tech jobs.

That ain't control. You are exaggerating. And your repubs watered it down so much it only lasted a year. We need a whole lot more and should focus some of it on freeing working class Americans from the indentured servitude of cr card/student loan debt.

Govt contracts have goneto "friends" for all of history! Business community ain't scared of it. they thrive on it. What are you joking?

The only way to get people to work is to help the middle class. Eliminate the personal debt (cr card/student loan), this will increase consumer spending, demand and incentivize the job creation.

Its the only way.

Your repubs would never help the middle class. They plan on doing what they always do, what has created our current crises, more wealthy tax cuts, more tinkle down economics, and more cutting of investment in middle class services.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

The populace overwhelmingly are against the health care bill. Polls show this and the last mid term election showed this.

You just said what you want to do, another govt program where there is complete govt control. You believe that is the better way to send all of your money and power to DC so they can use it. You want to take away my freedom and liberty.

Obama had his congress for two years so the Republicans couldn't have watered it down. It didn't work because there is no confidence in Obama. If you can't pay your car bill or college bill don't go to college.

You have never heard of Say's law regarding supply?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I just want the middle class to get the money back that the wealthy has stolen!

The provisions in the health reform law are supported by large majorities of people. I don't want govt control. I won't to take control back from big corp

Reps abused filibuster to obstruct, delay, and water down every effort to improve the economy. It is treasonous.

Your liberty & freedom has already been taken away by the plutocrats who run the govt.

Free college! affordable healthcare, criminal banksters forced to forgive working class debt!

Thats what I want. And more!

[-] -3 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

Every poll shows that Americans are against the affordable care act and the last election proved it, so I don't know where you are getting your material.

I'm not sure how you are saying that the wealthy have stolen money from the middle class. This is nothing but class warfare. If you are so concerned about the middle class then why don't we divide everybody into three tax classes and tax the lowest and the highest at 100% and re-distribute it to the middle.

It is treasonous to put our country at risk of default increasing spending the way Obama (and Bush) have done. That is absolute mis-management. There is no country that has spent its way to prosperity.

Your last statement makes it pretty clear. You want everything for free but sorry, the world doesn't work that way as somebody has to produce. You forget about the USSR, it didn;t work. Everybody became a taker and the system was corrupt.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Say what? Law? not interested. One more time for hard to reach.



That'll do it. Consumer demand goes up, hiring goes up. deficit disappears, national debt gets paid down.

Done. Simply

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

But if you don't know who Jean Baptiste Say is, then why do I think any of your other prescriptions will work. You obviously know Karl Marx.

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Stimulus worked for 2 years. Repubs filibustered (which eliminates the benefit of majority) & obstructed until they succeeded at cutting it in half and watering it down. They didn't want economy to improve while dem was president.

Who's investing. What investment. The wealthy are sittin on their trillions 'cause they don't want to improve the economy while a dem is pres.

No welfare for the rich. Cut taxes/debt for the working class

it's the only way.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Your "stimulus" was nothing more than banker handouts.

Stop falling for the hype. DC works for the corps, not us.

[-] 0 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

So what you are saying is that you have a both houses of Congress and still couldn't get your spending bills passed!!! What more do you want.

Not only are the wealthy sitting on their trillions but all of the business owners are too because they now know that you want to take tax away all of their money. People aren't stupid.

You don't reward idleness and penalize success which is what you want to do.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Karl Marx? Is he the the italian one? or the one who never speaks.

Jean Baptist? is he a Hatian leader? Why are you name dropping.? just give up the money and nobody gets hurt!

[-] -2 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

Socialist to the core, it finally comes out.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Businesses will spend and hire again as soon as consumer demand starts up again. That is why we must cut taxes/debt for the working class. And stop protecting the greedy selfich rich who are sitting on their money for no reason other than they are greedy and selfish.

End welfare for the rich

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

There is no getting out of this mess. It has been over 30 years in the making.

Its not that the solutions are terribly complicated. Its that this current system is so corrupted, corrupted through every branch, and is so interwound into every single aspect of every person's live......

Its a freakin mess, and no one is rising up to change it.

[-] -2 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

So you don't believe in Say's law?

I am all for cutting taxes across the board and treating everybody the same and fairly. It doesn't matter to me how much money my neighbor makes, it matters how much I make.

It's not just the 1% that is sitting on thei rrmoney, people, corporations, private and public pension plans and foreigners are all sitting on their money because they don't trust the rookie in the White House. We are like Mexico, where we can wake up one morning at the socialist has make a rule to take everybody's assets.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I attacked you for not working for your livelyhood? What are you talkin about? You must be confusing me with some other discussion your having.

ACA-I'm familiar with the national general polls showing the low support. I disregard that because I know people support the provisions that I listed for you.

Bush busted the budget we still live with his annual $1T deficit. Pres Obama could not eliminate it even when he had majorities in congress because repubs abused filibuster and prevented him.


[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

"The 1% are the worst performing. they don't create jobs in America. they suck all money and hoard it. just the other day there was a report the $21 trillion is being hidden in offshore accounts like your boy Romney. The middle class consumers are the real job creators".

You are attacking me saying that I am the worst performing and that I owe you something. I am not afraid to tell you that I work for my livelihood and always have. It is my money,not yours. I don't owe you a job, college education or healthcare. If you can't earn it, come work for me and I will teach you and wip you into shape.

Lesson #1 - back away from the big screen tv and the electronics. Save your money.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

My way has NOT been tried. We tried the tinkle down supply side voodoo economics for 30 years. That crashed the economy and created the largest transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 1%.

My way has been obstructed by the 1% plutocrat tools (republicans) Their action has kept unemployment high because they can't have the economy improve with a democratic president in office. It is treasonous. Gm numbers are down because europe tried for 3 years to cut spending their way out of the recession (instead the correct stimulus path Obama pushed).

More stimulus (for us and europe) more help for the working class and the economy will explode.

Stop protecting the wealthy who screwed everything up. No more welfare for the rich.

[-] 1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

You had the Congress for two years and passed your stimulus bill and your health care. It didn't work because everyone knows that this President is redistributionist.

Let me ask you how come people are investing?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Laughin My Fuckin Ass Off. Mr graduate/undergraduate 1%. Sure college/healthcare costs something. But just create a tax on all corp profits

They benefit from an educated citizenry. Make them pay.

Ok? paid for.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

So now the truth comes out, you want somebody else to pay for your life. This is what this is really about. You are lazy and don't want to work.

Make them pay, they already do. The top 1% pays far more than any other group. So you already are getting their money, and the other 47% don't pay anything.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

So you are one of the 1%?


I disagree. I don't believe you.

I don't want anything for free! I believe college should be provided like the 1st 12 years of school. And I think health care should be affordable.

We disagree. Thats all. deal with it.

1%. LMFAO. Riiiight!

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

You don't want anything for free - college, healthcare? Eveyr good has a price. The price is the regulator. If we give people something for free then they will use more of it, be it healthcare, education or soda pop. If we artificially put a lid on prices then the market will become inefficient and there will be low quality and corruption.

I have no idea what LMFAO means. I was schooled in the Kings English and don't speak in slang. I had to pay for my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I had to work hard to get through some of the best colleges in the nation. And by the way, half of my class were foreigners who know that you have to work to achieve.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

We got 12 free years of education now! whats another 4 gonna be?. It is well worth it as we will get our money back 10 fold. It's an investment. And great for business as graduates will have money to spend on the plastic crap business is pushing on us.

Affordable health care Act: no refusal for existing conditions, cannot cancel ins when you get sick, children can stay on plan until 27. closing medicare prescription donut hole, & other provisions. These are supported by overwhelming majorities. You and I disagree. Thats all. Get over it.

The current $1T annual budget deficit was left by your guy Bush!! Pres Obama would have reduced it but your repubs prevented him!. Pres Obama has added the least to annual spending than any modern president. Period.

The 1% plutocrats stole our money because for 30 years they sold us a deal that if we gave them low taxes, low regulations they would be the job creators, and the wealth would tinkle down.

Instead they moved our jobs, their assets, and HQ overseas, stole our pensions, busted our unions, kept our wages low, raised our health premiums, hampered us with loan shark level debt, crashed the world economy, took a trillion in bail outs, lost 40% of our home value, and created an unemployment crises going on 4 years.

Well that constitutes a breach of the agreement, so we want our money back!. With interest please!. 29.99% interest, thank you very much.!

Ok? You understand now?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

k-12 is paid for through property taxes. Tell the people we need to raise their property taxes by 33% and see what happens. Nothing is free.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Good Comment - corpoRATists must be ejected from Government.

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 9 years ago

12 years of " free education" taxes pay for it. there is no " free"

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

There is no free lunch. Somebody has to pay for college. It is not up to you to take my money so that you can go binge drink and not learn your economics. Were you too hung over to learn Say's Law about supply?

Get over it? That's how you respond. Where did you go to college? Every poll shows a majority of the people against the overall act.

Bush was horrible in the spending department and I won't defend him. By the way, Clinton was great in reducing spending. Obama is worse than Bush.

You act like it is your money to take. You have no claim on somebody elses money!!! Talk about entiltled, there are no guarantees in life. The economy did very well from 1980 through 2005 and that was due to sound money policy and lower taxes. We got away from sound money and starting spending above our means.

I work hard and forego many luxury items. Why should I pay for yor big screen tv when I don't have one. Why should I pay for your contraceptions when I have discipline and you don't.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The top 1% don't pay enough! the bottom 47% are poor! you wanna take money from them.? Doesn't add up. Did you take math in your college study? the bank robber says he "robs banks 'cause that's where the money is". He's not gonna rob the shoeshine boy. Even the thief is smarter than you. You should ask for your college costs back. LMFAO.

No. obviously the people who have grabbed 90% of the wealth in the last 30 years, and the ones who hoard and are hoarding upwards of $32T, and the ones who haven't suffered during this republican 1% plutocrat created "great recession" must step up, be patriotic, pay extra to pay down the national debt they created!

Thats fair. They screwed everything up and they've benefitted! We don't want anything for free. We just our money back! They must pay!

[-] 1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

So what's the idea here that we should give all of our money to the government to redistribute back to all of the people? That's really what you want.

You want to penalize the people who are successfull.

It's not your money, that's the point. You didn't work for it. It was given to you by Obama. To quote him, "YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT"

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I use a projector. 100" and didn't cost $400. No college for me. Couldn't afford. (are you gonna attack my intelligence level now?)

You are repeating your self. I won't cut & paste but you can refer to my previous comment regarding ACA support. As well as why I think the 1% plutocrats have gotten our (the 99%) money dishonestly.

I don't want anything for free. (I won't use the free college) I believe it is better for society to provide free college. Obviously we will pay as a society, because we will benefit as a society. Just as we came to the same conclusion regarding primary, and high school. It's an investment! It is more costly not to educate our citizens. Don't you understand?

Bush was worst of all!! he turned an annual surplus into an annual $1T deficit that we are still living with. The trillions added to the national debt during Obamas term was left over by your guy Bush. Why won't you admit that reality. Obama has added very little spending, in fact he has made fed cuts every year!!!

You are just a partisan republican?

[-] 0 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

I voted for Clinton the second time so no I don't think I am a partisan Republican.

If I am repeating myself, so are you so keep yourself to your same standard. But if you don't believe me here it is from CBS NEWS:

"Since it was enacted over two years ago, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, President Obama's signature piece of legislation, has never been especially popular with the American public. Just 34 percent approve of the health care law, according to a CBS News/New York Times Poll released earlier this month, while 48 percent disapprove. Other recent polls also show more oppose the law than support it".

You are attacking me, saying that I don't work for my livelihood. I do question your knowledge of economics.

You can try to blame Bush all you want but this is Obama's economy. He has been President for 4 years, had two years of his party in control of the legislature so he could pass what he wanted and it is not working.

You claim that Obama has cut spending every year. Government spending in 2004 was $4 Trillion in 2004 and $5 Trillion in 2008 and increased to $6 Trillion in 2010. So no, spending has not decreased under Obama but continues to increase. If you look at as a percent of GDP it is even worse due to the lower GDP numbers.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Nope. Your pretending not to hear me. It IS our money. We DID work for it. Then the reckless, irresponsible, criminal actions of the 1% plutocrats took it, hoarded i, and now sit on the side saying "we shouldn't have to pay for you"

They didn't work for it. they sat behind a desk and devised the scam that crashed the world economy. They are only successful at perpetrating a scam. a con and convincing their ignorant republican supporteers that they deserve the money they stole. They ain't the job creators, theyare the outsourcers.

The middle class is the real job creators so we must cut the middle class tax burden, and debt burden.

It's the only way.

[-] 0 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

Your way has been tried. Look at the GM numbers today, look at the unemployment rate. It is not working.

What do you mean it is your money. 47% of all people pay NO income tax. They don't pay into the system. They are TAKING from everybody else. This isn't a fantasy world.

[-] 7 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The 1% have been stealing from the rest of us for decades.

Why do you speak against your own class.? The 1% have armies of lawyers, lobbyists, and accountants that they've used to rig the system against us and steal OUR money.

[-] -1 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Why do I get the impression that their money was NEVER your money?

[-] 8 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Because you advocate for those 1% criminals instead of your own family. You have been convince they will bring you along for the ride? Some crumbs if you vote for their republican tools? You think 1% profit was never middle class money 'cause you think they're gonna tinkle down on you?

When theres a crime you follow the money. Well guess what they got trillions in offshore accounts while most of the people struggle to make ends meet. When there is con job you look at who got away with the loot. (the banksters).

Who's money did they get.? How did they get it.? You thnk it's magic.

We want our money back! with interest! 29.99% interest. thank you very much.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 9 years ago

Where is the fairness in cherry picking your facts? What matters is the overall taxes paid, including payroll, state, local, sales, property, and excise taxes. Even the poor pay over 17% in total taxes, the vast majority pay in the mid twenties, and the rich pay around 30%.


Now if you want to discuss who is stealing, I can provide stats on that too.

[-] 1 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Wasn't it the Dems who gave us NAFTA? Isn't that stealing?

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


[-] 0 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

You didn't answer my question, wasn't it the Dems who gave us the biggest Free Trade agreement in history; why do you suppose this income gap grows?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Unrelated. Look at bank scandals created from conservative policies. thats where the income gap comes from.

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Have you ever heard the word "job"?

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

only the house repubs stand in the way of middle class tax cuts.


can you say. "smoked"?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

yessem, the plantation explained to me

that is I wanted food to eat and a place to sleep in the shack

Is best work for him

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Have you ever heard of Dr Thomas Matthew? He was a neurosurgeon who, in 1966, formed a group called NEGRO, that's right - the National Economic Growth and Reconstruction Organization. In 1969, Dr Matthews began a six month sentence for tax evasion; as his first act of clemency, Nixon commuted that sentence and two days later Matthews approached Nixon with a proposal - Ellis Island had fallen into a state of disrepair through non-use and Dr Matthew proposed to turn it into an "Eden of Black capitalism" and a "rehabilitative community" - ultimately home to 1000 Black families as a self-supporting community to include a school, a hospital, factories, etc. In an effort to sell this plan, Dr Matthews relabeled the African-American as a "new immigrant" and Nixon, anxious to gain with the Civil Rights community through aid of this humanitarian effort, granted a five year lend-lease of Ellis Island. Long story short, by 1971 the Ellis Island population had dwindled to but three - despite 11 million in grants, Dr Matthews could not attract the hoped for 1000 Black capitalists in all of NY; he could not find anyone to perform the arduous work of rehabbing the island, nor could he attract the necessary private funding.

It has always been this way - the dependence of welfare versus the opportunity of free capitalism; the African American has always squandered the opportunity of wealth, even when afforded the opportunity to a world wholly Black.

I followed this story rather intensely at the time. But here we are, once again...

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Sounds like your conclusions are racist.

Google that.

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Absolutely, I am a racist (it's evolutionary) and so is every other hyphenated American I have ever met, and most are far more racist than I. But also the above is not spin, it's a true story. In the entire city of NY, Matthews could not find 1000, willing to try, black capitalists or gain the necessary funding; but what if he had? What if he had succeeded? Would you be here now railing against capitalism?

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

You are wrong. Your conclusion are deliberately misleading in order to serve your admittedly racist tendencies.

Please don't respond. I'm not interested in your racism.

[-] -1 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

The guy was a neurosurgeon, i.e., no dummy, and Nixon had the Park Service give him the whole Island; amazing story... and welfare won.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

TLDR + condescending

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

It's historical fact; I'm a historian... Google it.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Your repubs in the senate had to allow the vote on dem bill to extend only middle class tax cuts.

Now your repubs in the house remain the only impediment

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

People on the other side of the isle are saying the same thing about the Dems- that they are holding up cuts for the middle class on their desire to take money from the upper earners.

Its all a game dude. Each side reacts as planned, every time, on time. All the time. Very easy to predict.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

all tax cuts expire.

dems want to extend middle class tax cuts.

Your repubs won't allow it unless the 1% get extensions also.

Repubs are standing and fighting with the 1% And they are wrong!

You disagree?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

As I have stated about 1000 times before, no one pays those rates anyways so its really just show for the masses.

And each side reacts as planned. Same plan, same rules, same results.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Your just covering up for your republicans defense of the 1% tax rates.

Tax rates matter. We need 90% rates on your 1% plutocrats. and we need to cut our rates much lower.

We need to remove all deductions for the 1%. That'll do it.

The parties are vastly different. The dems stand with the 99%. Your repubs stand with, defend, and serve the 1% plutocrats.

You can't deny it. Look at the votes.


[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

The votes are always close, the talk is always different, yet when we see the major legislation they both have passed over the last 20 years, its always FOR CORPORATIONS.

Ya, when the discussion is 35% or 90% it matters. 35% or 37.5% is a fuckin joke.

There hasnt been a serious conversation in Congress for decades. Its all bought out. Has been a long long time ago. They dont care. They simply just dont fuckin care.

The sooner we reach critical mass in this thought, the sooner we can get something real and positive going. In the meantime, they will keep us arguing against each other while they eat dinner together.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

yeah we should ignore the repubs defending 1% tax cuts and dismiss dems support for middle class tax cuts because it's only a couple of %.

Maybe if they do something big it will matter. So we'll just wait around for that.

Whaaaaaat! Gimme a break. Lets take every small bit of progress and keep agitating for more.

Recognize all progress, recognize who is with us (dems) and who is against us (repubs) Support the ones who are for us. And push them further.

It's the only way.

We can't wait for critical mass. Lets work for critical mass. But we can't wait for it. We gotta keep pressuring for change.

Can't give up 'cause they ain't done enough! Gotta take what we can get and fight for more.

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Our goal is a one party system and the installation of a benevolent dictator. Term limits for Presidents will become a thing of the past; in fact so will "President" - in the future we shall refer to him as, "The Prophet." And today's Supreme Court puppets of the party will be tried for treason. And so, it begins; THIS is OUR goal.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


House Repubs stand in the way of middle class tax cuts.

Suck on that

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

Obama didn't break his promise

it's always been to the "middle class" prols

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

In the wake of Obamacare, the American middle class has already instituted their own tax cuts.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

ACA. Finally real reform. Now we must put the private health insurers out of business and create a public option.

Medicare for all!

Elect progressives Vote out anti public option republicans

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

You know, I can't keep arguing with retarts (Queens, NY - if you must know, it's Queen's slang).

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

name calling =weak arguments. I guess you have no more substance. I win?

You have been dispatched, and so you are dismissed.

Queens? Aaaaaaah Ha Ha Ha! i shoulda guessed. You certainly have the suburban views a queenie should have.

I don't need no slang, no insults, just substance, facts, Thats how we role in Brooklyn NY.


[-] -3 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Brooklyn is the land of miscreants and everybody knows it.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 9 years ago

The income gap began to widen back in the 70'S, NAFTA didn't go into effect until 94. Can you provide evidence that supports your claim that NAFTA has widened the income gap?

Looks like George H.W. Bush started NAFTA.

"Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1986 among the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch."


[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

Well, certainly - just look at states like Ohio - they lost local industry to Mexico. Look at Oregon; it's put their agricultural industry entirely out of work. Look at Mexico... their people now live here. Unemployment, loss of industry, and local economic logic, definitely exasperate income inequality.

There are forces in the world that are fully capable of owning Presidents; their one desire is to corporately manage all of America's social services, answerable only to the WTO. And those forces are here in this forum.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 9 years ago

"Look at Oregon; it's put their agricultural industry entirely out of work."

"The industry's diversity continues to be part of its strength. While some commodities have suffered from a drop in production value, others have remained strong. The overall result has been a slow but steady growth for Oregon agriculture. Only twice in the past 16 years has the value of agriculture production in the state dropped from the previous year."


You're just blowing hot air here. Nothing of substance to back any of your words. Where do you get your information?

[-] -2 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago

You took that from an educational site that is busy promoting Dem politics; I've talked to the growers. Get real. These are the very corporations you rail against, extracting dollars from Americans at the expense of their livelihood.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 9 years ago

oregonfresh.net is a service provided by the Agri-Business Council of Oregon Copyright 2011 --- All Rights Reserved

If you would like to discuss issues that have a factual basis, fine. Otherwise you're wasting everyones time.

[-] -3 points by Porkie (-255) 9 years ago


Stupid is as stupid does... I get really tired of partisan politics; you're selling us BS as anti-capitalist and anti-corporatist while simultaneously you seek to empower the very same at the expense of Americans.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

Where is the fairness when half of society pays the majority of taxes.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 9 years ago

It's the same fairness that allows 1% of the population to receive a disproportionate share of income. Check out this interactive graph here.


[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Thank you.

Buncha greedy selfish bastards, thats what they are.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Welcome to the wonderful, twisted world of libe(R)tarian co-option.....:)

Where the lies really are repeated over and over and over.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

It never ends.

[-] 1 points by bestevidence (170) 9 years ago

It's the nazi technique. We should counter them when we can because this forum ranks high in google and people read it who don't participate. When a paid fascist operative or one who does it out of conviction puts lies up on this forum it is only tangentially meant for us who participate. IT is meant to utilize the high rank of this forum on google to spread right wing propaganda. When it s not answered it stands as true in many eyes.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Actually, it was Lee and Bernays who invented that whole thing.

It's quite American. Rove has perfected it for the politics of the new century.

It's like the anti-vote stance adapted by the libe(R)tarian posters on the forum.

It didn't fly the first time through, so they adapted it to an Anarchists point of view.

I fought those no vote folks hard, when they showed up here the first time. As they do now, they quit responding to my questions

It's not worth voting for anyone, because there is no difference, is their current stance..

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

You're a good soldier.. Thanks for the effort. I've fought that battle with many here (and in the real world) as well.


[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

I do that in the real world too.

I was talking to a store owner just yesterday and he is quite convinced that it makes no difference.

He was so sure of himself that he asked another customer if he thought it mattered and the guy responded in the positive, that yes it can make a difference.

Hopefully, that is at least some headway.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

It is hard to see progress. Hard to convince people one vote matters. but worth the effort.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

I'm still waiting for a response for the 900+ bills signed into law by (R)epelican'ts that limit women's rights.

There is nothing like that from the left.

There may be some similarities, but the 2 parties are not the same.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

the parties are vastly different. I posted the kind of tax increases the repubs want. Please check it out.

And I also just posted a petition that highlights the parties different priorities look for it if you care to.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Yes I read it.

You have to wonder where Grover and Ron are now?

They have no problem with these tax increases, and neither one of them said a word when the teabagge(R)s raised my taxes..

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Because they only care about raising the 1% taxes. They ain't kiddin me.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Just one more great lie, from the party that proudly gave you those immortal words.

"I am not a crook"

You were that and a treasonous bastard too.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Nixon. But I wouldn't be surprised if Grover was also.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

GOP=Grand Old Paranoia.

It's the whole damn party!........LOL

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

And paranoid,

Sock it to ME?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Who's paranoid?


[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 9 years ago

teabaggers is homophobic. you should come up with something new

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

defending the tea party are you?

And why is teabagger homophobic?

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 9 years ago

Heteros can, but it's more associated with gay men. I first heard about it in a John Waters film, and the scene took place in a gay bar.

Not even close to a tea party member. just a guy with gay friends who actually do have an issue with it. plus, it's using a 3rd grade mentality to discuss politics.

couldn't reply to your other thread for some reason

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The thread got too long.

Anyway I understand what your sayin about the term but I think it is only the tea party who is bothered. believe it or not gay people are not generally welcomed amongst the tea party and gay people generally like annoying the tea party. (your gay freinds notwithstanding)

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 9 years ago

Defending the teaparty? You need reading lessons. Or are you homophobic?

Teabagging as an act is largely associated with the gay communty. Using it as a slur is basically calling those people fag$.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Doesn't have to be a gay act. even the heteros can do it.

And the gay community hasn't complained about it's usage in regards to the tea party.

Only tea party people object. Are you a tea party person? Or just their defender.?

'sok you're allowed. You can admit it.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Would you prefer the abbreviation?

TP......Better known as toilet paper, or the slang term ass wipe?

Those are I suppose more appropriate.

But they did "chose" teabagge(R) all by themselves.

So it should stand.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Why bother?

It's the nickname they chose, before they knew what it meant.

It reminds me, and hopefully others, of what a poorly thought out fraud they really are.

Besides, by any other name, they still raised my taxes and neither Grover, nor Ron said a single word. Those other self claimed haters of all taxes. BS!!!!

So fuck 'em.

They are and always will be teabagge(R)s to me.

[-] 1 points by marvelpym (-184) 9 years ago

well, as long as you aren't offended by it, then I guess it's OK. Who cares about what might offend a gay person anyway?

[-] 1 points by marvelpym (-184) 9 years ago

Not single issue no. I blindly vote for the Democratic party no matter what they do, except when it comes to teabagging. Then I'm always up for debate.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Obviously you don't.

Although you seem hung up on teabagging, as you ignored everything else I said.

Do you vote single issue too?

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 9 years ago

because you hate them as much as you hate homosexuals? ok, go for it.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Actually I don't mind gays and they like using that term for them, too.

So it's OK.

Gays didn't raise my taxes.......teabagge(R)s did.

They lie, just like Ron Paul and Grover Norquist.

(R)epelican'ts on the other hand?

They are repellent, in all their many names and forms.

Just like the devil himself.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

So the guy that runs a business thinks its all bullshit.

The sheep shopper is just another clueless american.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Aww how cute.

More insults from the guy that hates the 99%.

Insulting people you don't even know now.

Such a wonderful calling card from a community outreach representative.

Hey look over there.............Obama!!

[-] 4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Nothing wrong with being clueless on whats going on, the media does a piss poor job of reporting. Its why social outreach is so important.

Too many people think simply trolling to the polls once every four years and pulling one side of the other is what self governing is all about.

It's not.

It's much, much more than that!!!!

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago


It's about libe(R)tarian co-option.

It's about neolibe(R)tarians using neoliberal policies all over the World.

It's about their fear that Americans will return to the polls at all.

So there is the (R)epelican't backed anti voting drive, and are playing your role quite well.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Poll numbers were great in 08 and in 2010. Look where it got us.

You're a fuckin idiot who doesnt participate AT ALL, so shut the fuck up stay in your house. Let the people who can see through the propoganda do the real work.

You are nothing but a cheerleader and Im getting really sick of you claiming Im a republican or a libertarian because I think youre too dumb to see through 100 years of propaganda.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

That kind of language just betrays your weak position., I guess she hit a nerve of truth huh?

Poll numbers were horrible in 2008 & 10. Maybe better than past election but well below eligible voters. We never get beyond 60% so we do need to get out the vote.

It's what the 1% fear the most.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Voter turnout will continue to be horrible as long as the people who are politically inclined keep giving them nothing but the same old tired D and R choices.

The people are STARVING for something new. Something different. Give it to them.

That is what OWS is about.

[-] 6 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

If OWS can give people something that motivates them to be active, even voting (voting for D & R not required) that would be welcomed.

All powerful, invisible man in the sky willing

[-] 2 points by john23 (-272) 9 years ago

Its what a few of these guys do here repeatedly (the few know who they are)....you actually provide a few facts and data to back shit up and suddenly your a republican or a libertarian.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

You are the propaganda!!!

You and your childish insults!!!

You and your wish for the 99% to have it even worse.

In hopes that they think as poisoned as you do.

Call me more names, and I will have you banned.

If you want to deny the truth, that's OK with me, but that doesn't change the truth.

Nor do your continuing insults. Just like your buddy Bruce.

You don't really know me, nor what I do every day.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Has it ever occured to you that the vast majority of us in Occupy are a blend of every party out there? That each person most likely has things they like about libertarians, about Democrats and about Republicans (Im technically still a registered Democrat from 08 Obama campaign).

I've found the vast majority of everyday people are socially liberal and financially conservative, leaning to those sides.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Then why do hate the truth about libe(R)tarians most of all?

Indeed, do you inform those libe(R)tarians of those truths?

Why do only name call the liberals?

And only an occasional "fuck them too" to the (R)epelican'ts?

I've never seen a word from the "they are all the same" folks about the treason of Nixon, and more of that has come to light just recently, along with similar acts of treason by Reagan.

Absolutely nothing of this level has been done by the other "side", nothing even close.

I can do nothing but accept your " no difference" rhetoric as pure propaganda.

Nothing more.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Trust me, you call me a Republican is WAY more insulting than anything I could call you.

You of all people should realize that one.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Then you should be more aware of talking like one.

Besides, you should know by now that I find libe(R)tarians much more insidious.

They have co-opted much, yet admit to nothing..

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 9 years ago

Easy there. Where we would be without shooz writing proposals and posting them on this website? The world would be in pretty terrible shape I think.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

From your own report:

"Close to half of U.S. households currently do not owe federal income tax. The Urban Institute-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that 46 percent of households will owe no federal income tax for 2011. [1] A widely cited figure is a Joint Committee on Taxation estimate that 51 percent of households paid no federal income tax in 2009."

Nice use of the English language. Is this what they taught you in junior college. Maybe you ought to go to work and pull yourself up.

[-] 2 points by bestevidence (170) 9 years ago

Federal income taxes are not the only taxes people pay as you well know, asshat.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

Can't get your point across so you have to resort to profanity. They are the largest amount people pay, much higher than state, local, sales and property.

[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 9 years ago

Of course! they're unemployed, underage, or don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place. And the poorest in our society certainly don't pay any taxes at all; they're in jail.

[-] 1 points by Krowell (-69) 9 years ago

So we need to get the economy going and that is not going to happen with a socialist in the White House since all of the business owners are hoarding their money.