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Forum Post: Syrian Chemical Threat

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 4, 2012, 8 a.m. EST by DouglasAdams (107)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Syrian Civil War should not be our concern. How absurd will it get? After the hugely successful film, Lincoln, recalls the tumultuous time of the Civil War, how can the USA condemn and forbid any other nation the sovereign right to suppress rebellions within its own borders by any means available? Aren’t the lessons learned from the folly of the Iraq War costly enough?

Syrian Chemical Threat

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20590129

40 Comments

40 Comments


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[-] 3 points by freakyfriday (179) 1 year ago

If any chemical weapons get deployed, I hope someone gets a sample so their origins can be traced. Willing to bet they will be found to have been made in the usa. Yes, it is Iraq all over again and Hussein really DID have and DID use chem weapons agiainst hs own people. I seriously doubt Assad would deploy them. I am hoping he is readying them for disposal before his regime falls to US backed Al Quaeda and falls into their hands.

[-] 2 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

I guess what Hussein did to his own people is light compared to what the coalition forces did to them. Estimated 15,000 Kurd casualties in Iraq chemical attacks on civilians.

Hussein may have slaughtered .7 million Iraqi civilians between 1979 and 2003. There were over 1 million American motor vehicle deaths during the same period. These number contrast the ruthless cold blooded calculations of an absolute dictator to reckless and careless driving habits in a free democracy. Surprisingly, Hussein’s iron-fisted dictatorship in Iraq was less threatening to Americans than the driver in the nearest car.

The Crimes of Saddam Hussein

http://history1900s.about.com/od/saddamhussein/a/husseincrimes.htm

How Many Iraqis Did Saddam Hussein Kill?

http://www.iraqfoundation.org/news/2003/ajan/27_saddam.html

Motor Vehicle Deaths

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

How difficult is governing Iraq? Egypt is tame by comparison.

[-] 2 points by lisa (425) 1 year ago

"Operation Clean Break" was drafted by Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith etc. in 1996, it detailed how to destabilize the Middle East, and bringing down Syria was part of the plan.

http://www.irmep.org/Policy_Briefs/3_27_2003_Clean_Break_or_Dirty_War.html

The ultimate End Game is for one person to rule the world, a one world order run by one King, with a one world army, that old "new world order". The person who will ultimately run it will be the anti-Christ. Slowly the rulers of countries are taken out of power, puppet regimes are put in place, the people are disarmed, new laws are passed taking away freedoms in the name of making people safer (give up your rights to be safe from terrorism, your govt. needs to watch you, tap your phones, read you emails, etc. etc.). It's all about the govt. getting control over everything you do, why do they need microchips in your passport, license? To track you live livestock. People are still doing the same things, presenting their credentials at border crossins or for identification purposes, so what purpose does the chip provide? Tracking you, nothing else. Will they track the cards and get them back for you if they are stolen? No of course not, you have to just get a new one re-issued for you. As to the order of the countries being taken down,that is military strategy.

[-] 1 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

Hold on a minute! Egypt's Mubarak was a puppet. Did Cheney et al. foresee the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood? Will President Morsi be the next Pharaoh? He has been challenged by angry street protesters.

Does the "one world order" prefer a Muslim puppet over a secular one? Muslims are inherently antichrists.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 1 year ago

I don't think Cheney supported the Muslim Brotherhood, however, the US administration did not oppose them. The new world order plays in Muslim politics. By the waym Muslims are not against Jesus (Isa in Islam), they know he will be the one to take down the anti-Christ who will be a Jewish ruler who conquers Jerusalem and the world. Muslim fighters will be helping Jesus. Some of the same people you regard as terrorists are the ones who will be helping him. History proves it especially the origins of the most pious of the fighters, who came from the Tribes of Benjamin and Bani Israel and ended up in Afghanistan. Even the Bible tells of the permanent lands guaranteed to these tribes (Ezekiel Chapter 38 tells of the war that will come, the tribal lands are described after that; do some research and find out where the tribes went). All people will be liberated from their religions once Jesus is placed in his place in the Temple in Jerusalem, because of the false sects that have evolved.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

General Clark testified warplans - Interview Democracy now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7vAvAsyR1o

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

Somehow Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and Mali were off the radar. Those plans were grossly inadequate. The Arab Spring has left the United States unprepared to respond to a possible rise in theocratic vs secular governments in the Near East and Middle East.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

These two Lincoln quotes may fit here:

"Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose -- and you allow him to make war at pleasure. . . . If, today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, 'I see no probability of the British invading us'; but he will say to you, 'Be silent; I see it, if you don't." ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

"These [the armed forces] are not our reliance against a resumption of tyranny in our fair land. All of them may be turned against our liberties, without making us stronger or weaker for the struggle. Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, every where.... Familiarize yourselves with the chains of bondage, and you are preparing your own limbs to wear them. Accustomed to trample on the rights of those around you, you have lost the genius of your own independence, and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises." ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

Cheers :)

[-] 2 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

Iraq and Afghanistan Wars will cost more than $5 trillion. We could bribe both sides of the Syrian conflict for a whole lot less. This would be a switch from war profiteering to peace profiteering.

Who knows how far $5 billion would go to buy a cease fire?

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

I'm afraid a cease fire isn't in their War Plans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7vAvAsyR1o

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

War Plans don't include surprises like Hurricane Sandy and the Fiscal Cliff.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

The Fiscal Cliff is not a surprise. It was CREATED by congress.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

History has shown US interventions often cause mass levels of "casualties" as well as lead to "blowback." So how is that a solution? I really hope the government wises up and just stays out of this. If the problem is large numbers of civilian death, anything that causes large numbers of civilian death is not a solution.

Something needs to be done about the "casualty" epidemic. And bombs and invasions are not the solution.

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

What seems to missing from the discussion is this civil war is an attack on the Ba'ath Party, which is Arab Socialism. Should the civilized world allow a socialist government that brought 50 years of stability to be overthrown by unidentified masked men?

The Assad Dynasty is not what's at risk. It's the survival of Arab socialism or its extinction. Is it going to end with a ragtag rebel army armed with grenade launchers and AK47s ousting the socialist government? Should chemical weapons be used to protect socialism against the complete social descent into chaos?

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You're message disappeared. So I will respond here ok?

Yeah. We are indeed against all death from war. Conventional missiles are definitely not as bad as chemical weapons.

But we're against them all.

You think we should stop Assad for the conventional missiles he has used to kill 30k+ Syrians.?

Would you support efforts to stop Assad from using chemical weapons?

[-] -1 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

No, I would not. And neither should the American people.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Why not.? Do you support brutal dictators slaughtering innocent people with chem weapons?

[-] 0 points by SteadyRock (63) from New York, NY 1 year ago

we will wait until "Gaddafi" "bombs" its own people and then we strike them motherfuckers from the air to the ground! And Why for instance north Korea http://rt.com/news/north-korea-launches-missile-865/ not important any longer? because it is comparatively far from Israel???

[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

We're not going into Syria and the whole world knows it.

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

The world should intervene and support Assad and the Ba'ath Party in this civil war.

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

Arab oil powers should send in their air forces to bomb Assad
bombing the chemical plants may spread the poison


why wont the Arabs clean their own sewers?
why should they - when they can use the Jews as adoph did - as scapegoats

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I support regional orgs providing security. I know our arab oil allies are providing anti Assad support.

I think they will continue, I don't prefer the 'royal' arab form of govt, but I do prefer the non islamist extremists. We should support any anti religious extremist govt and pressure all countries to implement moderate dem govts.

And I would avoid the Nazi comparisons. Not productive.

[-] 1 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

I hardly understand the political stresses between the royal family of Saudi Arabia and the Ba'ath Party in Syria.

Ba’ath Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%27ath_Party

The Ba'ath Party is controlled by Arab Socialists. This should turn the whole situation on its head. At least raise an eyebrow. The United States has backed an autocratic monarchy over socialism: Saudi's vs Hussein. Socialism can be more democratic than capitalism. It is certainly more democratic than a monarchy. Syria has the last Ba'ath Party govenment.

The fall of Syria is the fall of Arab socialism. In Europe socialists are our allies. Is there something wrong with this picture?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You support the 40 years of brutal dictatorship of one family (Assad) because of they claim they are socialist. Why shouldthat matter?

I believe we SHOULD stand with the oppressed & brutalized people of the world regardless of there political system or whether they are our ally.

[-] 1 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

Syria had been ravaged by 25 years of military coups after WWII until the Assad family gained control in 1971. The civil war could end in another dictatorship backed by theMuslim Brotherhood as a civilian population under emergency military rule has any political party leadership capable to field a civilian government is unlikely.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I can't support the 40 years of brutal dictatorship of one family (Assad) because it MIGHT get worse.

I believe we SHOULD stand with the oppressed & brutalized people of the world regardless of there political system or whether they are our ally.

We MUST stand with people who strive for a better govt/life.

And we MUST stand against brutal dictators. (our guys or not)

[-] 1 points by shooz (26675) 1 year ago

With the Royal Koch family running amok in this country, I think this is the more important issue.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/holy-crap-michigan-has-gone-right-to-work/

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Aren't we against the use of chemical weapons?

[-] 1 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

What happened to a healthy love for law and order?What ever economy Syria had before there rebellion the economy will be in recession or worse afterwards.

The American economy stinks.

Syrian Economy Shrinks

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-economy-shrink-20-percent-2012-iif-140745382.html

What was this civil war supposed to achieve?

Syrian Civil War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

freedom for the people from 40 years of brutal dictatorship of the Assad family?

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (107) 1 year ago

Does secular Democracy seem to be the natural course for Middle Eastern countries?

The current Syrian civil war was inspired by the Arab Spring. The result of a rebel victory may not be an improvement over the current dictatorship even if Obama recognizes the rebels as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people. It would be less legitimate than the Morsi and Muslim Brotherhood regime in Egypt , which was elected by a slim majority .

Syria was under Emergency Law from 1963 to 2011, effectively suspending most constitutional protections for citizens, and its system of government is considered to be non-democratic. Bashar al-Assad has been president since 2000 and was preceded by his father Hafez al-Assad, who was in office from 1971.

Before that the modern Syrian state was established after the First World War as a French mandate, and represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Arab Levant. It gained independence in April 1946, as a parliamentary republic. The post-independence period was tumultuous, and a large number of military coups and coup attempts shook the country in the period 1949–1971. Between 1958 and 1961, Syria entered a brief union with Egypt, which was terminated by a military coup.

On 23 February 1966, a group of army officers carried out a successful, intra-party overthrow, imprisoned President Amin Hafiz and designated a regionalist, civilian Ba'ath government on 1 March. The coup led to a split within the original, pan-Arab Ba'ath Party; one Iraqi-led ba'ath movement (ruled Iraq from 1968 to 2003) and one Syrian-led ba'ath movement was established.

Conflict over the cultivation of disputed lands sparked into 7 April prewar aerial clashes between Israel and Syria. The Israeli defense minister Moshe Dayan said in a 1976 interview that Israel provoked more than 80% of the clashes with Syria. After Israel launched a preemptive strike on Egypt to begin the June 1967 war, Syria joined the battle against Israel as well. In the final days of the war, Israel turned its attention to Syria, capturing the entire Golan Heights in under 48 hours.

Conflict developed between an extremist military wing and a more moderate civilian wing of the Ba'ath Party. The 1970 retreat of Syrian forces sent to aid the PLO during the "Black September" hostilities with Jordan reflected this political disagreement within the ruling Ba'ath leadership.

By 13 November 1970, Minister of Defense Hafez al-Assad was solidly established as the strongman of the government, when he effected a bloodless military overthrow ("The Corrective Movement"). On 6 October 1973, Syria and Egypt initiated the Yom Kippur War by launching a multi-front surprise attack against Israel. The Israel Defense Forces reversed the initial Syrian gains and pushed deeper into Syrian territory.

A serious challenge arose in the late 1970s from fundamentalist Sunni Muslims. From 1976 until its suppression in 1982, Muslim Brotherhood led an armed insurgency against the government. In response to an attempted uprising by the brotherhood in February 1982, the government crushed the fundamentalist opposition centered in the city of Hama, leveling parts of the city with artillery fire and leaving between 10,000 and 25,000 people either dead or wounded, mostly civilians, the Hama massacre.

Hafez al-Assad died on 10 June 2000, after 30 years in power. His son, Bashar al-Assad, was elected President by referendum in which he ran unopposed. His election saw the birth of the Damascus Spring and hopes of reform. Pro-democracy activists mobilized around a number of political demands, but by autumn 2001 the authorities had suppressed the movement, imprisoning some of its leading intellectuals. Although Bashar al-Assad said he would reform, the reforms have been limited to some market reforms. On 5 October 2003, Israel bombed a site near Damascus, charging it was a terrorist training facility for members of Islamic Jihad. In March 2004, Syrian Kurds and Arabs clashed in the northeastern city of al-Qamishli. Signs of rioting were seen in the towns of Qameshli and Hassakeh. In 2005, Syria ended its occupation of Lebanon. On 6 September 2007, Israeli jet fighters carried out Operation Orchard against a suspected nuclear reactor under construction by North Korean technicians.

Wikipedia on Syria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria

The Muslim Brotherhood has attacked Syria before and probably are backing the Syrian rebels. Is Barack Obama and the United States unwittingly permitting Muslim Brotherhood aggression against secular Arab governments?

Obama recognizes Syrian Rebels

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/11/obama-syria-rebels-recognition_n_2280697.html

US recognizes main Syrian rebel group

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/11/us-recognizes-syria-main-rebel-group-obama-says/

Will a new Syrian rebel regime be more inclined to make peace with Israel? Will Egypt be better under Morsi than under Mubarak? Morsi’s decrees proclaimed himself a dictatorship beyond the reach of Egyptian courts. Only angry protesters rioting in the streets for several days and nights plus demands for his resignation blocked further decrees. Syria may follow a similar fate when the rebels take over. How much will this cost the United States?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Thanks for the history lesson. You left out the long Russian involvement in Syria. Kinda discredits your whole comment. No biggie, I've been familiar with the history, And I support removing the brutal family dictator Assad and the Russian puppetmasters.

What will come.? I don't know. Up to the people. Better for Isreal?, US? Don't know. I hope so, but that ain't the measure. Better for the Syrian people? hope so. Don't know.

But I have faith that in the end people will create the change that benefits THEIR 99%.

Syria like all new democracies will have great difficulty, and will have to be dilligent, and involved. If Syria gets an islamist extremist theocracy, that would be their misfortune (and ours) but the Syrian people will rise up again.

If they want our help we will oblige. But keeping the Russian backed brutal dictator who has killed ten's of thousands of Innocent Syrians (like his dad) is not an option.

Peace!

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Just what I'd expect from an evil Israel-first, Nato-Nazi such as yourself. You are a propagandist for evil. Get lost.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I didn't mention isreal, Nato, or Nazis. You are clearly confused. Perhaps you are responding to someone elses comment?

Do you think their are any innocent Syrians we could support?.

I think all regional countries will be better off without the Russian backed brutal dictator dynasty of Assad.

What is it you saupport?

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Your "facts" are knowing lies. You are a knowing evil liar.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Which facts are you referring to?.

Are you resorting to unfounded personal attacks because you can no longer offer any substantive argument on this issue?

If so, you know that means you lose the debate right?

Are you a LOSER?

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

How much misery in the world does Israel have to cause before feeling safe? That's like asking how many Jews Hitler had to kill before feeling satisfied. The answer to both is infinite.

The problem with Syria to the NATO led West is that it is not a vassal state of Israel or the U.S. Israel wants it destroyed as a stepping stone on the way to Iran.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

If you say so.

However I must remind you what you said:

"Your "facts" are knowing lies. You are a knowing evil liar."

Which facts are you referring to?.

Are you resorting to unfounded personal attacks because you can no longer offer any substantive argument on this issue?

If so, you know that means you lose the debate right?

Are you a LOSER?

[-] 0 points by Savimbi (-10) 1 year ago

Tell that to the boys at Ft. Detrick.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Why they don't know?