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Forum Post: Suburban life, "Keeping up with the Joneses", Status, Hiding Mental Illness to avoid the Stigma contributed to this massacre.

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 17, 2012, 11:55 a.m. EST by VQkag2 (16478)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I just watched a psychologist suggest Urban kids who struggle as the shooter did are "found out sooner" and given appropriate care.

Wealthy suburban parents hide these problems, switch schools, home school, hire tutors in order to shelter the kid from ridicule and to maintain their status in their society.

No one knows better how cruel and unforgiven the suburban "community" can be when they point their fingers and set all "inferior" groups apart.

If your children don't get into the "right" schools you are "lesser than"! Let alone mentally ill. The Joneses don't have crazy kids! Thank you very much!

Urban families live amongst many people, more difficult to hide these problems, more difficult to switch schools, financially difficult to do private schools/tutors, need to work precludes homeschooling. And Urban families are already stigmatized by the elite suburbanites that Mother Lanza had to contend with.

If she was not guided by these insidious realities, perhaps her son would have gotten appropriate help, and not resorted to this murderous rampage.

What do you think?

http://news.yahoo.com/gunmans-mother-kept-trials-home-life-hidden-010414000.html

102 Comments

102 Comments


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[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

I don't blame the mother. I can see why she taught him to shoot as an exercise in bonding. he probably had an interest and we know she did in guns. from everything i have read there were never any indications of violent tendencies. apparently he would through temper fits like a child but that is it. obviously his mother didn't feel any fear that he would harm her or others. if she did i think she would not have gone to sleep that night with him in the house. i am not here to judge her parenting. it's a tragedy. i am sure she was trying to help him, she just wanted him out in the world and not holed up all day playing video games in his room. she wanted him to get a job or go to school and obviously he had other ideas of what he would rather do than join our sick and twisted world. obviously slaughtering children was preferable to going to work some meaningless service or retail job which is all he would have been able to get or subjecting himself to the peer interactions involved in college. what we should ask ourselves is not if video games or media is the problem, it's obvious guns are part of the problem, but what really is the problem? why it's us. we keep looking at this kid and his mother but we need to look at ourselves. i saw the one interview with a neighbor girl who had not talked to him since the 8th grade. wow you are the kids neighbor and you didn't talk to him the last 7 years? see what i am saying. how many of us don't even know our neighbors. not really anyways. this is the problem. we are all floating around. no connection. not to the earth, not to our food, not with each other. if only there were something that could manifest community bonding, if only there were something that facilitated connection with the earth, with life, with death. if only there were a way to feel the oneness between each other and the universe, nature, consciousness, existential freedom, god, science, buddha, jesus, great spirit, whatever you want to call it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalism

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

So you don't blame the mother who knew him, trained him w. guns, allowed him to play the violent video games, had guns accessible, allegedly was planning to institutionalize him, and make no mention of his family (father, brother, aunt, others) that knew all these facts or should have, but you have no problem blaming the young innocent neighbor girl for not talkin to him, and society in general for the structural anonymity we build into our culture.

I think you are way off. I agree we should be better at socializing with our neighbors, that has continued to be lost and would improve society. But in this case I submit the mother kept him under tight control and out of site as often as possible, under the radar whenever possible. This was done to avoid the constant judging by the community, avoid the stigma.

The girl next door I'm sure was afraid of the shooter and probably behaved just fine.

If the shooters isolation played a part in this I would lay blame with his caregiver. Not the general weakness society contributes to the lack of connection. We all live with that societal problem, we're not all slaughtering 6 year olds.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

of course you would, cause you don't understand the bigger picture.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I do indeed understand. I just can't pretend the gun owner mother wasn't irresponsible. And I'm certainly not gonna blame the teenage girl next door.

That's not the big picture, that's desperate, unrelated, reaching.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

see like i said you just don't get the bigger picture. she would not have been that way nor he if the underlying culture was healthy. it's us who are sick. it's us who is to blame.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I've already agreed that our culture is unhealthy. I can even say that cultural weakness can share blame. So to should the cultural weakness share blame for all crime. We still gonna prosecute the actual perpetrators right?

If we didn't prosecute actual perps the culture would be even sicker.

So again I do get the bigger picture. And yes we should identify our cultural sickness/blame, & we should take action to correct it.

Perhaps it is YOU who is missing the smaller picture! Part of our cultural sickness is not taking responsibility, making excuses for our mistakes. Well in this case the (gun owner) mothers irresponsibility allowed her mentally ill child who was affected by our sick culture to get guns (& trained him!) and slaughter 20 children.

I can't excuse her mistakes because the culture is sick.

[-] 0 points by voot501 (-4) 1 year ago

Adam Lanza was 20. He was hardly a "child".

29 children were not killed. Get your facts straight FFS.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

He WAS still dependent on his mother. He was clearly not able to live on his own. In his case age is just a number. His mental problems easily rendered his maturity years younger than his 20 years.

Right?

[-] 0 points by voot501 (-4) 1 year ago

Wrong. He was not a child.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Yeah I agree people (with guns) kill people!

People who sell guns to criminals kill people.!

Gun makers who lose track of thousands of guns annually kill people!

People who defend irresponsible gun owner/seller/maker behavior kill people.

We should identify the NRA 'A' rated pols and organizer a major pressure campaign.

You with us?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

He WAS still dependent on his mother. He was clearly not able to live on his own. In his case age is just a number. His mental problems easily rendered his maturity years younger than his 20 years.

Not a child. But immature and mentally ill. So clearly requiring supervision, which the mother failed at.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

Please wipe your idea out at least for now that Adam Lanza was mentally ill. There is no corroborating healthcare profession's statement to the effect that he had Asperger's syndrome. Even if he had Asperger's syndrome, that would still be a disorder that is a far cry from being mentally ill -- I am rather sure that most people would agree not to classify Sir Isaac Newton as "mentally ill" since I strongly suspect that he probably had Asperger's syndrome.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I will trust the statements of his aunt, his school friends, his barber, his neighbors, his mother, his actions towards his mother and his slaughter of twenty 6-7 years olds as sufficient evidence to suggest he was mentally ill.

Your judgement is obviously not clear.if you don't see that, but can make a judgement that a man 400 years dead?

Let's identify all NRA 'A' rated pols and mount a pressure campaign against them.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

Be very careful about labeling mass killers as "mentally ill." It provides an easy escape for them from justice and an easy excuse for some to commit their political opponents to "mental-health" institutions where injections of psychoactive substances to inmates and defacto tortures are condoned.

It is possible to judge Newton on the basis of "the preponderance of evidence." You can probably judge Adam Lanza in the same way but the statement of his being mentally ill is not yet "beyond reasonable doubts" suitable for a criminal incident.

NRA and our politicians definitely need a real work-over but that is really up to the American people and electorate.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't know that the shooter had aspergers, I suggest only that he was clearly mentally ill. I haven't mentioned bad medicine, that might be part of it, it could also be that he stopped taking good medicine.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't think it is a leap to say he appears mentally ill after what we've seen.

He shot his mother in the head 4 times, and slaughtered 20 children. Ain't THAT enough for you?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

Yes, he might very well be suffering from the withdrawal symptoms of psychoactive "therapeutic" substances so he may be mentally ill or may have been made much worse if he had gone on an erratic schedule of taking his medicine(s). I want to see some medical professionals' testaments about his medical records and ongoing treatments starting from his elementary school years.

Potentially having "Asperger's syndrome" just does not cut it to make him mentally ill. Besides, Asperger's syndrome is not well understood and might just be a catchall for a host of symptoms similar to what a diagnosis of "febrile illness" or "cancer" may be. Psychiatric drugs are very dangerous and may have been culpable if he did not use them properly according to scheduled dosages (he was reportedly non-communicative with his mother for a few days prior to the massacre).

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

not excuses. social determinants many times are the overwhelming factor in a persons life. this not an excuse this is just a fact. have you asked yourself what about our culture made the mother so neurotic that she had to arm herself to the teeth? what about the culture created the conditions for the autism he suffered from and probably psychosis of some kind. the bottom line is people like this don't exist in healthy societies. look at the ayahuasca churches and tribes in brazil and the amazon basin. problems like any of these are unheard of.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Yeah I've asked these questions. I think they are important questions. Answers would be valuable. Comparing to other cultures is also valuable.

I would encourage that analysis, while at the same time haul in the father, brother, aunt, drs, charge them for cultural neglect and see how quick other reports start comin in for potential gun massacres.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

It is best if we as a society recognize that mental health can be just as real as physical health. Much of the pressure that exists in suburban "communities" arises from the people there knowing far too well how the filtering mechanism works having been the same people who formulated the filtering system in the first place to protect their interests as a class.

Wealth provides options (i.e., switching schools, private schools, tutoring, etc.) and the better-offs know how to use them to their advantage if need be. As you wrote though, this sometimes delayed needed attention from the psychiatric professionals but you should remember that the psychiatric professionals in the publicly funded domain have been decimated by budget reductions for a very long time. The motto was: "Seeing is believing. Corollary is that what one cannot see, viz., being mentally ill, does not exist." Money saved can become tax reduced. Politicians often cut mental health services to improve budgets.

Suburbanites also know how insurance companies and employers scrutinize legally or illegally obtained information to make important decisions about people so the pressure mounts. Not knowing how the game is played often provides one with bliss.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I hear you. certainly we must replace the money cut from mental health care. In fact we must see those cuts as partly responsible for this massacre.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

In the U.S. and presumably elsewhere too, we have a tacit abhorrence of the less-than-perfect segments of humanity such as the disabled, the poor, the elderly, the mentally ill, etc. The social sanction resulting from it is the reason why people who know something do NOT say something. It is unsuitable for "polite" companies and far too many of us are "polite." We want everything to look perfect on the surface and not to delve into the underlying rot. Accepting the reality and removing the social stigma to deal with the problems forthrightly will help better our society.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"too many of us are polite". Hmmm. I do prefer polite but I do support dealing with the problem honestly.

I'm not sure whether we agree but I will assume we do.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

When "politeness" interferes with speaking out so the right things can be done properly, "politeness" must yield. I am not opposed to preserving a facade of "politeness" on the surface to make everyone feel good if things still get done right. Feeling good is pleasurable even if it may not reflect the harsh reality.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ok. I hope being polite doesn't cause problems in getting the necessary information/communication out there. I don't think it is too difficult, or too much to ask.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Simple mental health test. Do you need a gun to feel secure? Treat as indicated.

Has anyone calculated the cost of treating half of society?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Astronomical!

We ought to address those (NRA, Repubs) who have spent 40 years spewing the fear mongering lies of minority crime comin to get us.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

The mentally ill require treatment, even if they are a majority. In may cases, it is treatable and the victims made whole again. But it will not be accomplished by argument. As long as they are irrational, rational debate won't work.

The wind can't make a man remove his coat, the Sun can.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Well I bet the sunny states have more gun owners. :)

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

And more people with serious mental health issues.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't doubt it. (shoulda let those mothfuckers go when they wanted)

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

It is interesting that we hear about minority crime so often and not majority crime. Of course, majority can become minority in a heartbeat and so suddenly crimes galore appear, right?

In that vein, we can eliminate minority crime altogether by defining everyone as belonging to the majority. If you remember the "Moral Majority" of decades ago, those people in it got rid of their moral crimes long ago, right? How easy was it!

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I think 80% of gun massacres and 90% of serial killers are perpetrated by white men who make up only 30% of the population.

Maybe we need to start profiling for that.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

There is no need to do that. Much of the developing world already developed their own domestic profiling of white men. Substitute white men with the U.S. and bingo, one gets an approximation to the international scene.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Yeah we'll just continue profiling blacks, hispanics, & muslims.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

Absolutely, it saves money so that we can maintain tax relief to the multi-millionaire beggars in three-piece suits who speed around in their Bought-My-Ways with an attitude.

Skin tones, beards, and turbans are concrete things that we can track easily, unlike those mental states. Hoodies, sneakers, sunglasses, and backpacks are strong clues for finding potential robbers/terrorists (or maybe even suicide bombers), also known as tourists in the bygone more civilized times.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Merry Christmas to all

[-] 2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

The elite are closer to MKultra.

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/pdfs/95mkultra.pdf

And are generationally unconsciously controlled to have greater social fears. So they do exactly as you describe.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

cool. where's my tinfoil hat when I need it.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

tinfoil wackos anonymous? LOL

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Foil hats don't help with hypnosis, particularly if you are 3.5 years old. That's when it starts, and always has whether it is MKultra or an ancient Indigenous tribe.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You are wrong! tin foil hats disrupt the hypnotic waves of control. i believe it's in your report.

[-] 2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Beliefs won't fly. Facts do.

CHILDREN UNDER FIVE

http://tinypic.com/r/28hlyq1/5

http://tinypic.com/r/rvanfl/5

WOMEN & GIRLS http://tinypic.com/r/2hqgjsy/5

Examine the decisions of women judges lately. For example Terence Lakin was denied evidence and witness at court martial. He was denied his constitutional right under law and the UCMJ.

Americans ignore this and continue pretending they can complain and get their needs met.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Thanks.

bigfoot is real!

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

That is what a cognitive infiltrator would say when faced with facts.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Do you know that because it is in your manual?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

I know that because I just told you a US soldier was denied his rights in court when he was trying to defend the constitution and you ignore that then try to diminish medical fact that serves to explain secrecy.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Is that what happened?

I ignored it cause I don't believe you. And I don't think I diminished any medical facts. i can't even repeat any you mentioned. Did you mention medical facts?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

It's expected that you would pretend to be confused. The medical facts.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/suburban-life-keeping-up-with-the-joneses-status-h/#comment-896454

The legal facts:

"comments came today in an interview with WND about Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin, who yesterday was denied permission by Army Col. Denise R. Lind to obtain evidence that could document Obama is not eligible to occupy the Oval Office Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2010/09/199001/#v6ApgUQDF8g6dgFH.99

The woman army colonel judge ignored the constitutional rights of the soldier.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

This non sense is almost 3 years old, he's been tried, convicted, sentenced, served his time, released & wrote his book.

In that time the evidence he wanted has been released. The Pres birth Certificate was good enough for the state of his birth (hawaii) and the related election officials.

Please stop showing your insanity.

This (& you) are so ridiculous.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

What is subpoenaed is good enough. Anything less than testimony of the custodian of records, if the records are not produced, is not providing due process and right. As an infiltrator you won't want to recognize that tho.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Whatever. The traitorous deserter wanted proof of the Presidents birth and since his release from prison it has been provided. He was wrong.

But that was years ago. Most sane people have moved on.

Move on wackadoodle

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

We are all legally due proof of the presidents birthplace. Period-duh. But you are against the constitution so that won't matter.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Yeah we've gone over this already. NYS ain't interested, I can check NJ, & CT, but I don't think we got a chance.

How are the other states doing.?

You will probably get at the 7 Confederate states on board if you attach the birther issue to it.

Whatta ya think?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

You've not provided context for your ambiguous info. No cognition can be done without that.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Didn't the great state of Hawaii verify his BC? And hasn't every states election boards approved his eligibility to be on the ballot?

Do you have any idea what you are talkin about?

You lost the election. Get over it.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Which is why Article V should be largely democratic. Since 1911 when 2/3 of the states applied for an Article V, the infiltration of the federal government has extended itself to as many states as possible so such unconstitutional things could be done.

Using your information leads to usurpation of the constitution, which infiltrators approve of.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Proof has been provided. I don't think he has to send proof to all of us.

move on wackadoodle

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Proof not provided in court. Unconstitutional. Not legal.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Thank you.

Good luck in all you good efforts.

Start in Al Abama!

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Why isn't his birth certificate constitutional?

Election is over! You lost. Move on.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

The long form BC and custodian of records were subpoenaed, then denied in several cases. Unconstitutional. Lakins was the last. The short form produced has obvious deficiencies and cannot be verified.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Are you a birther? You lost. The election is over.

Do you think the Pres is a Muslim too? Would that be ok?

Some have said that Pres Obama is part of a terrorist sleeper cell waitng to be activated.

Do you think that too?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Unconstitutional distortions backfire.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You have proven nothing! Except that you are a sore loser and a right wing wacko.

If the Pres has done something wrong your repub traitors would've found it.

But they ain't cause there ain't nothing to find & they are sore loser right wing wackos like you.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Pretending to see no fact means you know nothing, or want others to mimic you and know nothing, your behavior proves it.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Agreed, So since that ain't happened Pres Obama has not been unconstitutional?

Is that what your tryin to say?

What about my questions? U think he's a muslim terrorist?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

A distortion of labeling="Are you a birther?"

I am an American that knows some law. You don't like that or constitutional rights because I've proven a soldiers were violated IN COURT and you are trying to attack me because my info is FACT. Typical loser at cognitive infiltration.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

News distortions are even worse.

So why do you employ them?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/World_Net_Daily

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

WND??

Really?

WND?

Find another source. The site is BS.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Like I said, you can't recognize facts and law. You are unconstitutional. Cognitive distortions simply show how you fit in to the infiltration.

A year or so after the violation of our constitution, it is to be expected that only the most hard core sites will have ALL of the facts.

It's not a black and white universe buddy, it's grey.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You are as full of shit as your source.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/World_Net_Daily

By posting this as REAL you have violated all things logical.

You should return to blaze.com now and stay there.

[Removed]

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I would not be surprised either. I have heard nothing about the Dr's who had seen him, or the treatment he might have had, or the medications he was or was not on.

That will be interesting to see.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

When does private life = hiding? We have had numerous posts that are damning this woman from the get go with zero knowledge of her situation. I fail to see how opening oneself up to gossip---which is an absolute in a bar would have prevented anything.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Zero? I don't think so. Media gets things wrong, corrections will probably yet come.

But we know she was a gun enthusiast, numerous people have said she took the son/shooter to shoot, multiple friends/fam have said he was troubled.

She should have given up her hobby, or kept son out of the house, or the guns at the shooting range, certainly NOT taught him to use them.

And she should have given him proper treatment instead of being concerned about what people thought.

Sorry so far the evidence shows she was an irresponsible parent & gun owner. Until otherwise proven.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Proper treatment for what?

She went up against the kids school district when he was in school. She pulled him from the school after that battle.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

For his mental illness.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

What mental illness? I'm looking for a specific diagnosis.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The mental illness he suffered from. The one his Aunt described as him being "a troubled kid", The one his school mates described, the one the neighbors described, the one being described as aspergers, schizophrenia, the one the forced him to be transferred from several schools & forced an attempt at home schooling.

The mental illness that drove him to shoot his mother 4 times in the head & slaughter 20 6-7 year olds innocent children.

Pick one!

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You are making the assumption that treatment had not been sought or that there is some magic cure for either schizophrenia or Asperger's syndrome. There isn't.

Battling a school over IEP's or schools not having adequate programs in place is normal issue. Schools that try to remove kids from programs because they don't want to spend money is an issue.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Perhaps one appropriate step would be not having guns accessible? And not training in the use of guns? Even prohibiting violent entertainment for a mentally questionable individual would be desirable.

And all of those suggested steps should be coming from a health professional. I assume that didn't happen, 'cause it didn't happen!

And now 20 innocent 6-7 year old children have been slaughtered.along with 6 women who dived in front of that sick bastards machine gun fire.

So I can accept that I might be wrong about that sick bastard (I been wrong before, will be again) but I don't mind. The children are worth it.

You might be wrong in your defense of the shooter & the irresponsible gun owner mother (RIP). I suppose you don't mind either.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I stand with the gun victims! You stand with the gun owners?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I agree 100% that she shouldn't have had guns in the house or trained him to shoot. That is a no brainer right there.

Given the he was 20, he has probably had multiple contacts with the mental health professionals. I would like to point out that I think you have a rather high level of confidence in your mental health professionals with the current system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/us/17MENTAL.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/nyregion/police-say-man-stabbed-4-in-manhattan-then-himself.html

There has been a huge push for many of the people to live at home or on their own and then a therapist or counselor is sent out to the house to do a periodic daily/weekly/or whatnot check.

Most of your psych wards do nothing but treat and release these individuals once they have been medically stabilized. You have to love these fucktwits and their solid responsibility anti tax stance in a quasi libertopia and the cheap talk of rights of the mentally ill by those that are sucking the system dry.

I'm not defending the mother, I'm pointing out that there are some serious problems with IEPs, schools, and the mental health system.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Without a doubt OUR mental health system is screwed up. I have expressed no confidence in it. Only that the mother failed. the system is what it is, we must agitate for real improvement. The problems in our mental health system also plays a part in this shooters rampage.

But I won't say so much so that it gives the mother an excuse. I can't pretend her irresponsibility didn't contribute. AND the father/ex husband, the brother, the Aunt who was interviewed and discussed the mothers irresponsibiliy, they should all be held accountable.

I know that is extreme but something must be done to shake people out of their silence and their excusing of this behavior.

Put 'em in jail. See how many & how quick reports start comin in.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

Please calm down. We do not want to start dragging in the relatives unless they are proven culpable.

School districts have financial interest in NOT providing help for children with special needs even if the needs are blatantly obvious to a disinterested observer. This is even truer if the child is functioning above average in a number of areas. Nancy Lanza being well off and a loving mother had both the means and the maternal instinct not to settle for what Adam Lanza's school district had proposed. It may have turned out to be too overwhelming but let us not forget where it came from -- the near-if-not-ultimate maternal love.

I grant you that Nancy Lanza's handling of her gun and ammunition collection was problematic (retract this because a dead person cannot really guard the collection) but we should remember that the well-to-do and especially their children have long been inculcated with the potential threat from (perceived) poorer segments of a society that has great disparity of wealth. Imagine yourself lugging a big wad of money or living alone with your son in a big house. Anyone unfamiliar who glides close to you or comes knocking on your door may then deserve a weapon standoff, at least until the police can come, right? The well-to-do are often paranoid (suffering from asymmetric information perhaps).

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't know what yourtalkin about.

Today I heard forthe1st time someone ask why didn't friends and family question the mother. I say they shouldhave reported her as well.

I say that failure constitutes criminal negligence.

I say more will come forward with potentially tragic cases if we put these in jail.

calm enough for you?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

The approach of putting in jail the people who know something but did not say something is heavy-handed and will be highly problematic. It can lead to a state in which everyone fears their neighbors (for both reporting and not reporting blindly). Anyone who has ever lived in a state where neighbors can rat on neighbors knows the pitfalls.

It is better that social stigma attached to the less-than-perfect conditions be reduced sufficiently so that people will opt for professional help rather than clam up to prevent loss of social status of the relatives and the future opportunities of the individual in question. If everyone were to understand that the mental-health spectrum is more of a continuum than a discrete sick/not-sick dichotomy, that individuals are constantly shifting on it, and acts accordingly, we as a society would have taken a giant leap forward in reducing rampage killings.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Do us in"? what does that mean?

And if you ask me training the mentally ill in gun usage seems criminal, and even the accessibility to guns for that sick bastard seems criminal also.

Certainly she was an irresponsible gun owner. no? Someone should have reported her. For the childrens sake.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

There were many rampage killings in the U.S. before Sandy Hook/Newtown. We Americans were rather blase about them for many years and kept silent. The victims were simply not of the correct TYPE (not white enough, not rich enough, not of the correct religion, and not innocent enough -- "yeah, so what if charcoal or towel heads get blown off?" --) to engage our national and the world's psyche. The blase attitude stemming from the gun lobby's influence prevented doing anything meaningful before Sandy Hook/Newtown happened to "do us in" (because these children were overwhelmingly white, rich, innocent, and American).

Asperger's syndrome of Adam Lanza (even if confirmed by a health professional) does not qualify him as being "mentally ill." Nor is his allegedly playing violent video games in the basement. Nancy Lanza's training Adam Lanza in the usage of firearms was a most unfortunate lapse in judgment but paranoia runs rampant amongst the well-off, especially the nouveau riches, so I am not surprised at all.

What could we as a society have done even if someone had reported Nancy Lanza? Very little indeed because Asperger's syndrome does not correlate well with creating violence. Violent video games are certainly possible for evoking violence but we have a long time ago already put in a "protective" industry-approved rating system and that should have protected us. Even the firearm training of Adam Lanza was legal. We really need to blame our pervasive paranoia, gun culture, shadow caste system, and corporate-controlled political system.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I agree it is "better that social stigma attached to the less-than-perfect conditions be reduced sufficiently so that people will opt for professional help"

I also know that we already expect people to report crimes. This is no different.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

In the Sandy Hook/Newtown case, there was NO crime until there was. If we become too heavy-handed in forcing reporting, we can run the risk of constant false alarms leading to a blase attitude that will actually do us in. Ultimately we have to count on our people's judgment and common sense to do what is right but of course we can as a society provide the backdrop and set the tone for doing right easily.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

That's is a frighteningly strong case you just made. I'd just like to add this piece to your post - 'Guns In America: Musings On Our National Psychosis' - http://www.nationofchange.org/guns-america-musings-our-national-psychosis-1355674607 , which ends with - 'extremism is nothing new in this country. Just ask the victims of gun crimes.' Never Give Up On Trying To Understand & Explain. Occupy Reasoning & Solidarity!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Good piece. Not a real solution, but valuable and a good illustration of how MN should be consulted somehow.

Thx

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

For effective gun control solutions - as no one is talking about banning all guns, musings too have a part to play, as does more practical actions - http://www.nationofchange.org/over-80000-sign-white-house-petition-calling-gun-regulation-bill-just-24-hours-1355675127 . Never Give Up Occupying The Issues!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Now it's almost 147K signatures. That is phenomenal and only a fraction of the number who do support better gun safety laws.

Signed!

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

That is so deep. I can't say it was that bad for the newtown shooters mother. But I suspect it wasn't. But it was probably close enough.

So if that women is hiding knives she probably doesn't have guns accessible, doesn't train him in the use of guns, and probably avoids violent entertainment. Your article indicates walks in nature, and positiveradio shows, so it clearly indicates a responsible approach.

It also illustrates the need to identify these at risk situations and remove the danger from society. NOT prison. But definitely a controlled lock up.

"It's the only way to be sure"

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It's consistent. There are a lot of parents that have done everything that they could possibly do to get help for their child but it doesn't exist. I agree. It does not need to be as it was before but there is a very real need to bring back institutions for those mentally ill that cannot function.

It doesn't need to be identical. If the opportunity arose to prevent this from occurring again...............would you take it?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I agree 100%. This tragedy should highlight the fact that since Reagan cut billions from mental health care, and the states since have cut another almost 5 billion.

We must address lax gun safety laws, & poor mental health support.

Definitely

[-] 0 points by 3roundmagsonly (-63) 1 year ago

What did the article prove? That we live in a free society and unless we want many of our freedoms dramatically curtailed, its the risk we run to be free.

She did everything right. Wealthy, involved, committed. Shit happens, sadly, in a free society.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

She did nothing right. Hid the mental illness (to maintain her status?) prevent appropriate treatment, made guns available/accessible, nurtured violence by allowing her mentally ill son to engage in violent entertainment, and encouraged gun use by taking the mentally ill shooter to the shooting range.

So yeah everything right but that!