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Forum Post: Source of many of the trolls on this forum.

Posted 2 years ago on March 25, 2012, 8:58 p.m. EST by justiceforoccupy123 (35)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I talked about this in another thread. I wanted the info to have its own thread so no one will miss it. The info is in the comment section.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/flood-the-forum-with-occupy-info/

The site responsible for attacking this site is www.sportshoopla.com

188 Comments

188 Comments


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[-] 4 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

It's been going on for while. I know how people have been sick of the constant attacks. I thought I would give the people behind this site a once in a lifetime opportunity to know who is responsible for a large portion of it.

[-] 2 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

Here they are planning an attack on another forum. They usually are more private about their occupy attacks.

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/sports-forum-general-discussion/193-lol-people-still-espns-board.html

[-] 2 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

You're an idiot. They aren't plotting to attack this website. That thread is older than the occupy movement itself.

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

They have been around longer than the Occupy movement. I never said that site was created for the Occupy movement. They attack multiple entities and organizations they disagree with. It didn't get out of hand until they set their sites on occupy. This ring has been going on since about 2009. They used to attack the Coffee Party, Moveon.org, Adwatch and countless other sites that are usually left wing. Not always, but usually.

Take a stroll a few pages through their general forum. You will find threads where they have attacked people.

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Sounds like a project for anonymous.

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

They need to hurry up.

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Ok. Sorry for calling you an idiot. I misunderstood what you were saying.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Doesn't count. Apology not accepted. I'm sorry won't cut it troll.

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Ok. I respect your opinion.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Ok. Your headed in the right direction. This is a good sign. Maybe we will be able exchange some good ideas honestly without beating each other up over them. Good choice.

Welcome Aboard!

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

No problem man. Just passing on some info.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Tho' I may have said so before, you mate are deserving of our respect, thanx and praises :-) So, good excuse for : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTDwIN9oLvY ! Welcome back to The 'Lightside', Luke !!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

You use insults, for example: "You're an idiot."

That makes you a troll of the dumba$$ kind. How old are you? 12

[-] 1 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

Yeah, I bet he's the kind of troll who messages random people and tells them to go to hell. Sounds familiar... lol

Hypocrite.

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

I apologized below. Read the rest of the post please.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Just remember actions speak louder than words. In here, we have only your words which are amplified way beyond how you conduct yourself in person If you show respect than you may honorably demand it. Most of us here are very sensitive to this problem and being human we defensively hit back.

Good Luck!

[-] 2 points by Skippy2 (485) 2 years ago

There is a Troll under the bridge at the edge of my town. His name is Herman

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

ROFLMAO. Thanks for the laugh. I almost spit on my computer screen.

[-] 1 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Talk about easily amused. Here, pull my finger...

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

They are now attacking members of an occupy group in Oregon.

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/sports-forum-general-discussion/67228-ghost-taking-stand-gays.html

This means they are about to raid a gay and lesbian online community. "Ghost" means private chat. Someone has located a target and instructions are given out via chat or pm. By the way, these guys hate gay people.

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

They are at it again.

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

They call me a troll, moon of the earth wealth sucker of the giant, destroyer of the sun beloved follower of the prophet, guardian of the open mind What's a troll if not that?

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

This seems to me to be a great distraction and a red herring. I know it's hard, very hard, perhaps practically impossible to win over those among the 99% who are hostile to OWS, but ultimately how are we to win unless we find our way to do exactly that?

IMHO there is far too much banter on this Forum about "trolls" and far too little discussion about how to build the movement. This is after all, essentially a series of public e-mails. How difficult is it to simply ignore those e-mails with which you disagree or with whom you don't think any productive discussion could ensue? It seems to me that is all that is necessary to control "trolls."

Nearly everyone who disagrees with someone else on the Forum at some point gets accused of being a troll. In my experience very few OWS activists (I'm speaking of activists at local general assemblies and encampments) have much affinity at all for the Democratic Party, including those activist who plan to vote Democratic as the lesser evil. Yet I have been accused of being a troll for expressing exactly that point, something that would never happen at an actual general assembly or encampment.

The converse is also true. I've seen staunch advocates of independent political action on this forum essentially accuse supporters of the Democratic Party of being trolls and while it is unlikely in the extreme that any local general assembly would ever fall prey to becoming an arm of the Democratic Party, neither is it the case that activists who are supportive of the Democratic Party would be considered wreckers at any local general assembly of which I am aware.

And the same is true of Republicans and Libertarians. At every encampment which I have visited Republicans and Libertarians are treated with considerably more respect than is the case on this web site, which itself is peculiar given the fact that the home page of this web site very specifically says that OWS is a social movement open to people of all political persuasions.

[-] 1 points by Javis (35) 2 years ago

It's the unfortunate anonimituous (adverb form of anonymous) aspect of the Internet and the forums as such that exist here, that leads people to expect criticism and at the same time makes it easier to give criticism, especially when the majority of the self-control one possesses is derived from social pressure.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

What motivates a person to put others down? They feel pain inside. The only way they can feel good is to make another person feel more pain than they do. So when someone puts you down, consider their motivation, and have compassion on them instead of returning an insult. Our purpose in life should be to raise up those who have fallen like they were brothers.

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

and in some cases it's time to put people too far gone in their place.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

You are still lashing out. Just what the trolls like to hear. You are keeping them here with statements like that.

[-] 2 points by brochomsky (208) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Aren't you afraid that the idealism of this forum, of the Occupy Wall Street movement might be its downfall? Think of all the wasted time spent on this forum combating trolls? What if it could be stopped? Does that result in a breach of conscience?

I took a 5 month break from visiting this forum, and what I see is a general decrease in activity. Maybe I'm here on an off weekend, but I am keen to assume that the reduction of activity on this forum is because of the lack of regulation that has allowed trolls to overwhelm. Heck, I don't remember trolls even being this unintelligible from last year.

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Too many people here take the bait from the trolls by engaging them in debate which actually encourages them to stay. It takes two to tango and as long as occupy continues to dance with them, the trolls will be back for more.

[-] 1 points by brochomsky (208) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

But what if these people are actually quite psychotic? What if they continue no matter what? What if these people do this "just because?" I've just looked through several threads that are nothing more than several trolls trolling amongst themselves. No one else, just trolls.

Maybe this will stop eventually. I've never encountered trolling activity before. I just hope we're not being naive about this.

[-] 1 points by Craiggiedangit (99) 2 years ago

Even if it doesn't stop, please don't let it distract us. The people of the civil rights movement endured many times this, I hope we can handle some morons on the internet.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

BS jrhirsch, we are not responsible for others behavior. Try owning your own shit, it sure as hell ain't mine. And, I don't care for it either so don't give it to me, I'm not taking your crap or anyone else's here.

Do you understand Mr. Compassionate sicko?

You want to talk nice to me? Go for it.

Let me see if you know how.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Brocho, this is so pitiful, the trolls are here demanding respect after they insult folks in here repeatably with no restraint at all. They intend to hurt. Some of us were raised to demand respect from others or get the hell away from them. This forum continues to lose intelligent posters who have something good to share but instead they want everyone to say anything they want with no regard for others here. It's the reason I don't spend much time here. I have seen it just get worse. Many great posters have left. The trolls eventually will any of us down no matter how immune we think we are.

The trolls are winning in here. I witnessed it long enough to form this opinion. Many others know it as well. We need some structure to foster an environment where ideas can thrive and be discussed rationally.

Dealing with trolls is like arguing with someone who is irrational. You will never win an argument with anyone who is irrational.

The only posts that stay up these days in this forum are the worthless trolling ones just like this. It's a telltale sign that .

[-] 1 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

pal. You have never been free of them.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Coddle and nurture them when they insult?

Were you raised in a barn?

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Am I honestly going to have to explain to you where trolls come from? Ok. Here goes. Baby trolls come from mommy and daddy trolls. You see. When two trolls like each other the mommy and daddy troll, you know, show their love for each other. Nine months later you have a brother troll. Nice huh?

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

So, here goes, you are troll

Now, go make your baby trolls and go away!

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Ah ha! I figured it out!

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

<bold>bold</bold>

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

bold bold /bold

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

<strong>OIC</strong>

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

bold

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

bold bold

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

How do you do that bold text thing? <b> Bold </b>

[-] 1 points by snowcat765 (14) from Long Island City, NY 2 years ago

Why don't you forbid opposite view points by threatening us trolls with deathcamps?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Why don't you go to the Heritage Foundation's site where you won't be trolls?

What the FUCK makes you think it is OK to come to the support site of this movement for the express purpose of trashing it? Do you go into other people's homes and do that? Do you think that if you did, you wouldn't be thrown out on your ass in about three seconds?

[-] 1 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

Um, I understand your anger, but honestly the reason they come here is to get angry responses like the one you just posted. Don't feed them and they will go away.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Personally, I would claim self defense. One less troll to worry about. These trolls don't deserve respect, they lost it. Their whining here to be treated well, as they rip through insult after insult is just beyond the pale.

I don't feed them, I kick them. That's not feeding, it's a fight.

[-] 1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

you need anger management training

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You need a brain.

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[-] 0 points by VantagePoint250624 (-51) 2 years ago

crybaby

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Seems to me it's you that's crying: Boo-hoo, they don't like us trolls. Sniff sniff.

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Because if you have a dissenting opinion doesn't it make sense to express them where the offending party can hear them? For example. If you had a problem with corporate fat cats, where would you express your dissenting opinions? Hmmm. Wall street. Sound familiar?

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Because this site, like virtually all other discussion sites on the web, exists for a specific purpose. Funny how you are so grandiose that you would think what you're doing is in any way, shape or form appropriate.

When protests occur at Wall street, the protesters are subject to arrest. What are you subject to when you come here?

You trolls are nothing but cowards. You know there are no consequences, unlike actual protesters, but do nothing but bitch and moan if you're threatened with being banned, or even simply told you are unwelcome.

If you were a man instead of a troll, you would carry a picket sign among OWS protesters and take your lumps as they do.

[-] -1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

One of the core principles of the OWS movement is the right to express your dissenting opinions in a public forum. This isn't a private website or else we wouldn't be here. Just because our dissenting opinions aren't concurrent with yours doesn't mean we should leave or feel at all apologetic.

[-] 1 points by iamausername (119) 2 years ago

yup, but it would be nice if you didn't use that just to troll...

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

troll = someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

complaint = an allegation against a party

I guess it depends on the individual's perspective.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Your "dissenting" opinions don't have to be concurrent with mine, moron. But to come to the support site of OWS only to express venom about OWS is trolling, not dissenting.

This is a public forum, yes, but it is NOT a hate OWS forum, and you know it. It is a support site for OWs. Go try what you're doing face to face. You won't, because fundamentally you are a coward and hypocrite, hiding behind the anonymity of your keyboard.

Do you go to someone's home where all are invited to shit on their rugs? You wouldn't dare. What you do here is no different.

You have no honorable dissent. There are no consequences to your trolling. You take advantage of the openness of OWS to piss on it. And your too deluded to even realize how fucked up that is.

[-] -1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

This isn't a house. It's a forum. If you don't like what I'm saying then don't listen. You think I'm being hypocritical for expressing my opinion in an OWS website. What do you call occupiers going to Wall Street to express their opinions about bankers?

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

This forum is a gathering, shit-for-brains. It is the electronic version of someone's home.

And when OWS protests at Wall Street, they are willing to pay the physical consequences of their actions. You are simply a stupid, fucked-up coward.

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Why you no make sense?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You are simply too stupid to understand.

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

All of us might wish at times that we lived in a more tranquil world, but we don't. And if our times are difficult and perplexing, so are they challenging and filled with opportunity.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Now you even repeat yourself in other posts?

Now that's just lame.

You're paraphrasing Rummy.

That's trite, and brain lazy.

Would you consider yourself a conse(R)vative?

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

I don't associate myself with any party.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

There is no conse(R)vative party.

I didn't ask about party affiliation.

Do you ever answer a question as asked?

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

You talk so funny sometimes it's hard to know if you're asking a question or making a rhetorical statement. For example: Do you think that's funny? (in a mean voice) <- Typically doesn't require a response.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

If you come here to add to ideas that will make OWS stronger and more effective, that's one thing. If you come here to piss on OWS it's quite another. As a lover of reason, I'm sure you understand that.

One doesn't go to a support site, no matter how public, only to sow dissent or insult. That's called being a troll. Is that evident enough for you?

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

"We welcome dissent." ~ Statement of Autonomy

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

"If we weren't welcome we wouldn't be allowed to post."

Nonsense. Pure bullshit. People aren't welcomed here who troll. Permission to post is not the same as being enthusiastic about posts that condemn the movement, that insult its members, post racist and sexist comments and the like.

Do you offer constructive criticism in order to help the movement grow and become stronger? If so, you are not a troll and are welcome. If you come here to insult and belittle, spread hate and dissent, you are a troll and will be condemned as such. It's a very simple distinction.

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

"If you come here to..., spread hate and dissent, you are a troll" OWS welcomes dissent.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Nobody welcomes trolls: statement of reality.

[-] -1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

If we weren't welcome we wouldn't be allowed to post. Think about that perspective and your perspective and why they aren't aligned with each other. If you can't take criticism and grow from it than that's a flaw on your part, not mine. If I say OWS is acting hypocritical, if you truly want your movement to make positive change, than you'll take that criticism seriously and make changes accordingly.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

The actuality for all you newbie trolls, is that a lot of your so called "dissent" was dealt with many months ago, and all new trolls can do is keep repeating what was already said.

I guess in troll world there are no points given for originality.

Just endless repetition.

Kind of like FLAKESnews.

[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Freedom of speech. Ain't it grand?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Some people do seem to enjoy bitching about it.

The shame is that some people prefer the tabloid version of "freedom of speech", while others realize, it works best in an atmosphere of respect.

[-] 1 points by brochomsky (208) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Speech is a very important tool, one that is of great and natural beauty. Our society has struggled for centuries to develop more advanced and efficient and beautiful forms of communication.

Speech and writing are two of the most powerful actions we as humans can perform. Don't you think you owe it to yourself (not us, not OWS, not Wall Street) to simply create beauty with this ancient tradition we've been given? What do you think your ancestors would feel--who struggled to find food and shelter, communicating with each other in order to simply live--knowing you mar this sacred activity called communication by simply being antagonistic and vitriolic for no better purpose than to generate calamity. No gain, just losses.

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

In my perspective I'm not creating calamity. That's your perspective. I'm not artistically minded so I doubt I'll be creating beauty with my words, although I do respect those who do.

[-] 1 points by brochomsky (208) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I just find it sad because I bet you really are an interesting person with challenging thoughts and something important to say. You could help change the world for the better, constructively rather than destructively. To me that sounds like a lot more fun than a shallow attempt at rowdiness. This is something quite important for this world. Are there things in life you hold really important?

I don't need a response.

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

Well you're going to get a response. I don't feel I'm being rowdy. I think I am making a change for the better. I would like things to change and I'm doing something about it. You or anyone else are not going to stop me. I'm going to continue to voice my opinion in a peaceful manor. And please don't offer me sugar to help the insults go down. I'm not that naive.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Good post. Your on the right track. You can learn much more this way. We not looking for everyone to agree with everything we say. Lively debate is extremely useful but we need to keep it out of the mud. Personally I not one who likes preaching to the choir much. I like give and take so I can learn more. Also, when we defend a position it proves we understand it enough to stick with facts that can support such defenses.

I am a lover of evident reason. I depend on it. As an engineer I must never ignore reality or it's to my peril. My designs are attached to concrete reality.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

ows/libs/dems,.................believe in free speech,as long as you agree with them.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What we need is a troll hole, so you guys have a place to go to sit and bitch.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

I know a source of trolls. They live in Nilbog. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyophYBP_w4

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[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 2 years ago

To type in bold put two asterisks on either side of your statement

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[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

I think the trolls make us stronger. They cause us to honestly and credibly present our viewpoints. It is great practice to have when we defend our message out in the real world. When someone slings every filthy word to demean my person when they can't t attack my message, it slides right off, with no need to sling it back. I just wish the trolls were better debaters, I enjoy a good opponent.

[-] 3 points by justiceforoccupy123 (35) 2 years ago

Yeah, but these aren't just trolls. This is a internet bullying ring. These people are fueled by pure hate. Notice how mad some of them got when I exposed their home base. They have been fucking with you and everyone on this site. They have hindered the flow of communication among the occupy movement all over the net. In the shadows they attack people personally.

I can fully understand now how some people have actually committed suicide over this kind of thing. These are the guys, people. You are getting a chance to see where this stuff comes from.

If there ever was a hacker with a cause, it would be to take this piece of slime site down for a month. Right now they feel invincible.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Bulliers can only bully with help from the victim. Don't trade insults. That is what they feed on. They get off on making you angry. They love it when you hate. Show no emotion and they will flee.

[-] -2 points by Dell (-168) 2 years ago

who's bullying you? we Trolls just want rational answers to our questions. The only answers I get emotional childlike theories of how the world should be. For that - OWS lashes out with profanity & name calling obviously out of frustration that They aren't making sense based on the real world. Desires are not rights.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

I demand respect period. Respect!

Dell, are you calling me a child?

Does demanding respect make me a child?

Don't you think calling everyone who replies to you a child is an insult?

You do know what an insult is, don't you?

[-] 0 points by Dell (-168) 2 years ago

you will deserve respect when you make a well reasoned non emotional argument. This movement is so far removed from reality it deserves no respect. Give me one specific demand of what you want changed * how this change is supposed to take place. be specific & walk me through it.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

So we should allow them to insult us and pretend it didn't happen. Then we can fantasize that really their on our side and they just want to find out how we support our positions. This is naive.

Besides this, doesn't condoning this horrorible behavior only encourage it. I have children and if they curse me down there is consequences. If I don't correct them, then they naturally will go on and on. Not only that since I don't make a big deal about, they won't think it's a big deal.

Do we not deserve respect? Or shall we follow your lead and become door mats for the filth they bring?

I guess you don't know what it feels like to have strong self worth (self-esteem) which does not allow you to become somebody's punching bag. I have too much respect for myself and others to allow this kindergarten BS carry on. Personally, I will always call them out. No, I won't exchange insults but when they step the line they no longer deserve respect, they've lost it.

Otherwise, why would we ever have rules even in sports. We could just have free for all. Then only the strong survive. The weak are insulted untill they leave, which is exactly many already did. Is this what you want?

You must really enjoy a forum overrun with trolls. Is this your kind of paradise? A troll paradise while we bend over to take it from them. I not here for that.

[-] -1 points by farmerbrown (-3) 2 years ago

Do you think people with different viewpoints should be killed?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I think you should not be allowed to post here. This is a support site for OWS, not a piss all over OWS site. Go to your neo-nazi sites where you would be more than welcomed.

[-] 0 points by farmerbrown (-3) 2 years ago

LOL! You do understand you sound like a Nazi don't you? But then you're just another authoritarian leftist so you probably are clueless. :)

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Your really are an idiot's idiot.

[-] -1 points by farmerbrown (-3) 2 years ago

Nazi. :)

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Nazis are right wingers, like you.

[-] -1 points by farmerbrown (-3) 2 years ago

Actually, National Socialism was more totalitarian like you socialist lefties.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Yeah, sure, it was a liberal movement designed to produce more civil rights. You are laughable, asshole.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

nazism is statism,.........which obama &co. are doing their best to impose ( force) on the USA.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

So is right wing ideology. But the converse is not a given. Government is not fascism.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

im talking about STATISM............statism is fascism.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

In fact, it is not. It simply means that the state is the authority over laws. If that state is freely elected by the citizens, and those citizens have the power (through elections) to replace those representatives, is it not fascism.

You are using a specifically Libertardian definition, which normal people reject.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

look up the definition of STATISM. statism is central planning by the govt. fascism, socialism, communism,...... all controlling forms of govt, all failures.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

congratulations on your lobotomy.

Likewise, I'm sure.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

China is doing pretty good with central planning.

[-] 1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

congratulations on your lobotomy.

[-] 1 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

Yeah, I like where they destroyed free speech and beat people out of their houses and bulldozed them for the olympic village. If only we could have that here...

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Central planning by government is not fascism, idiot. It is simply central planning. If such plans are made by freely elected representatives of the people, it is called a democratic republic. Fascism is totalitarian. Central planning, if engaged in because of the will of the people, (who also retain the power to change their minds via the election booth) is not totalitarian. The State is not automatically fascist for doing the job the people elected them to do.

Every state regulates (plans). That is its primary function. Only in some fantasy Utopia is there no need for some amount of central planning and regulation. But only AUTHORITARIAN states, practicing AUTHORITARIAN statism are guilty of fascism.

Jeez, you are really dense.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Ain't it crazy?

By this measure, any successful central government at all is fascist.

They can't explain it, they just keep repeating themselves.

[-] 1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

statism is fascism,............socialism, communism. it's what obama is trying to implement in the usa. statism has NOTHING to do with the "states" of the united states.

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Reply to post below:

You don't get the define the word the way you want simply because you want to. Neither does your stupid brain dead libertardian ideology. Statism describes a range of state authority, totalitarianism being only its most extreme.

From Wikipedia:

Statism (French; étatisme) is a term used by political scientists to describe the belief that, for whatever reason, a government should control either economic or social policy or both to some degree. Statism is effectively the opposite of anarchism. Statism can take many forms. Minarchists prefer a minimal or night watchman state to protect people from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud with military, police, and courts. Some may also include fire departments, prisons, and other functions. Totalitarians prefer a maximum or all encompassing state. Limited government, welfare state, and other options make up the middle territory of the scale of statism.

Economic statism promotes the view that the state has a major and legitimate role in directing the economy, either directly through state-owned enterprises and other types of machinery of government, or indirectly through economic planning.

And unless one includes Obama caving to sign the NDAA, a completely veto proof piece of bad legislation, accusing him of trying to set up a fascist, communist or socialist state is pure idiotic hyperbole. There is plenty to be pissed off at Obama for, but he is not setting up gulags or gas chambers. That's closer to something your Libertardian buddy Koch brothers and ALEC are doing.

[-] 1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

anyone with any intelligence doe NOT cite wikipedia.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

they don't/refuse to, understand what statism is and how the obama administration is forcing it on the USA.

[-] 6 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Libertarianism is capitalist tyranny.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

you're another idiot that wandered away from your village.

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

He's right, dude. Libertarianism is just a call for private tyranny.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/noam-chomsky-on-ron-paul-libertarians-and-corporat/

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

tyranny is the obama & co. statists that want complete control over the lives of the people of the USA. libertarians want no govt control,.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

You guys want to give all the power to private tyrannies: the economy and the institutions in society run like a dictatorship - all power to the non-elected owners and finacial elite.

PRIVATE TYRANNY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPUvQZ3rcQ

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Just another moron who has drunk the Ayn Rand Cool Aid.

[-] -3 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

so says the pawn of ows.

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

So says the bitch of the 1%.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

when you have nothing to say,......no argument, you curse. you're a pawn, a useful idiot, and to the left the is using you , you're regared as nothing more than a tool. you will discarded, thrown away, trampled by the people you think your supporting.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You are a shill of the 1% and a troll, nothing more.

[-] -2 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

tyranny is the the obama & co, adminstration.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Tyranny is crony capitalism encouraged for the last 40 years by progressively more libertardian policies by both parties.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Are you and I the only ones here who understand this?

It's the common thread between the two parties over those years.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I don't think we are the only two, Shooz, but Po' brain certainly doesn't have enough gray cells that communicate with each other in his head to understand much of anything at all. I seriously think that chewing gum, all by itself, is a mental challenge for him.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

the president of the usa ,.........threatened the members of the supreme court,.............. that idiot phoney law professor president doesnt know thet law. just an aside , but why was his law license ( and his wifes) pulled?

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

what ideology?,...............socialism which is the first step toward marxism. statism,........central planning by the federal govt. total dependence on the govt . any govt big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I was speaking of the insidious infection of libe(R)tarianism, but I will speak to your response anyway.

This "belief" is why you are completely off the mark.

It's nothing but false extremism.

It's the stuff of the lies of Limbaugh, FLAKESnews and others like them.

McCarthyism even. It's an hysterical viewpoint.

It's my belief we entered the realm of fascism, when we accepted "I am not a crook" as reason enough not to prosecute.

The existence and effectiveness of entities like ALEC bear this out.

Try and pay more attention to what you are responding to in the future.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

obama is so far left he's hand holding with socailsm and marxism.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

obama care is tyranny. if i choose not to have health insurance, that is my concern , not the govts. obama care has nothing to with health, it's about control.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Your selfishness is tyranny. The health care bill makes tens of millions of people get health insurance they desperately need.

[-] 1 points by GumbyDamnit (36) 2 years ago

I find it amusing that you truly have no interest in cutting health care costs to those much more reasonable and the first step is to get government and the insurance companies out of it.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

THe first step is getting access. The second step is reigning in costs. 50 million people have no coverage. 45,000 die every single year as a direct result. The first priority must be to get them as many folks access to quality affordable health care as possible.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

epee,........obamacare is unconstitutional.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Glad you're so sure. So far the professional judiciary, people you have actually graduated from law school, practiced law and been judges for many years, are split on it. Your grandiosity is fabulous.

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[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

Which is why everyone must pay into it. Otherwise, it is the tyranny of the plutocracy, which is what all you "freedom" lovers really want, freedom for those who can afford it.

There won't be enough people paying then knucklehead. You really aren't that smart are you? Which City College did you go to?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Huh? If everyone pays into the system, there aren't enough people paying? That can't make sense even to you.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

It won't be there if nobody pays for it.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Which is why everyone must pay into it. Otherwise, it is the tyranny of the plutocracy, which is what all you "freedom" lovers really want, freedom for those who can afford it.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I read it the first time. It is NOT a mandate on the individual. It is mandate on the GOVERNMENT to make things easier for the consumer if he so chooses.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

epee,........... obama care give the govt the right ( authority) to transfer money ( real time wire transfers) out of a private citizens bank account without their consent.

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I told you to back that up with the actual text of the law. You didn't. And you didn't because you couldn't: it does not exist. The sky is not falling, and there is no wolf.

Go take your fear mongering somewhere else.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

the with tranfers are a requirement, no permission form the citizen needed.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

The government and insurance companies are required to make a single standard of transfers. There is NO mandate for individuals to give the government access to banks accounts. NOne, zero. How's that Cool Aid taste? Like shit, I imagine.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

epee,....................obama care allows for the govt to access a persons private bank accounts and finances, WITHOUT that persons permission. it called " admistrative simplification" subsection 1173A, provisions (a) (2) (b)

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I read the section and it says no such thing. The provision is to set up a STANDARD (in other words, a single method) for electronic transfers, not a requirement for them. Such transfers remain voluntary. The government cannot compel, under this law or any other, access to your bank account without your permission or without a warrant. You have swallowed the right wing's distortions and scare tactics whole. Stop lying.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

i gave you the information, if you can't find,....do your own research. under obamacare the govt has access to your bank accounts for the purpose of real time wire transfers. . i will post that whenever i feel its warranted. http://usconservatives.about.com/b/2009/08/02/feds-get-real-time-access-to-patient-bank-accounts-under-obamacare.htm

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

There are several versions of the bill online. I looked that this one, the final authorized bill :

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf

You article's citation is nowhere near page 57. So that's the first thing your precious conservatroll propagandists got wrong. It is on page 29 of the bill. Nowhere does that section mandate any individual from giving the government access to his or her bank. In fact. it expressly allows payment by other than electronic means.

So this is just another demagogic distortion - more Cool Aid - that you have swallowed. That stuff rots your brain, what little there's left of it.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

section 163, page 58, line 5 (D) page 59 line 21 (C) page 60 line 4 (E)

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I have the final draft of the passed law, and there is nothing on those pages that corresponds to one syllable of what you refer to.

Put up a link to the version of the bill you are talking about or shut the fuck up.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

HR 3590 , pages 58-77

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Nope, nothing on those pages that I see. Which page, section, and sentence in particular ? The pages your cite are about employers and organizations.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

in response to your question,.where in obama care is the govt able to access your money,................HR 3590 pages 58-77

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Nope, nothing on those pages that I see. Which page, section, and sentence in particular are you referring to?

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

obamacare doesnt give citizens a choice ,.........obamcare allows the govt to have unlimited access to citizens private bank accounts. the citizen does not have nay choice in the matter.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Your constant repetition of your idiocy does not make it any truer.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Stop lying, please.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

"MAKES" as in forces . that's unconstitutional.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

No, it's not. ALL law "forces" you do either do something or abstain from doing something. And making law is what the congress is authorized by the constitution to do.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

"makes"? you mean forces. buried in that bill , the governmnet shall have real time acess to your bank account for real time wire transfers. you think that's o.k.?

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Post a link to the section where the bill says that.

And the government has a perfect right to "force" you to do a number of things that don't amount to tyranny. Try driving on the left side of the road, or try dumping mercury in rivers and see what happens. Try driving without insurance or a license. Try practicing medicine without a license or insurance.

That's not tyranny: that's providing for the general welfare.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

This isn't true.

Scroll down to claim page 59.

You can stop repeating it now.

[-] -2 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

obama care is tyranny,.......... the govt forcing people to buy a product ( health insurance) that they dont want, fines , taxes and penalties for not complying. if you can be forced by the govt to buy insurance, then they can force to to buy and do anything. THAT is tyranny. the "progessives " are the dems. they used to be left of center but now thay are hard left along with the socialists, marxists and fascists.

[-] 5 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

FUck you. Every developed nation in the world has universal health care. It is not tyranny to mandate that everyone participate in societal responsibilities. It is not tyranny to make sure that an uninsured person who gets hit by a bus doesn't cost the taxpayer - who ultimately must pay the bill - more than if that person was insured. That's called fairness.

Every state in the union requires drivers to purchase car insurance. It is not simply to protect the driver, but to make sure OTHER people are covered in case of accident. The federal government has the same responsibility to all its citizens, And since everybody "drives" a body, and everyone will, sooner or later, need health care, the mandate is perfectly reasonable.

Of course, since stupid libertardianism (I realize that's a redundancy) is based on pure selfishness and greed, no don't a shithead like you doesn't see it that way.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

mandate is force. mnay people people CHOOSE to not have health insurance because they don't want it. under obamacare there is NO choice. thats FORCE.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

All laws are force. You live in a society that supports you. Get used to it.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

obamacare in unconstitutional. 2700 pages is not a law,its tryanny.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Your farting these inanities is a tyranny. The constitutionality is yet to be determined. So far the federal courts have split evenly on it (almost exactly along party lines rather than law), and the Supreme court has just last week heard arguments. They have not come to a decision yet. Funny that you did. Maybe Obama will appoint you in his next term, since you are so far ahead of the current judges.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

obamacare does NOT give citizens a choice. obamamcare forces people to have their bank accounts open and accessable to the govt.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28250) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

2700 pages is indeed insane. This is way to much verbiage for clean and clear legislation. This is what is also wrong with all legislation - it is too complex. The more complex something is the more loop holes are likely hidden in it and the chance for error or failure in one or more aspect is an almost certain guarantee.

They should consider the KISS principal and then use it.

KISS = Keep it simple silly

Though in this case I prefer - KISSH = Keep it simple shit head.

[-] -1 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

if you don't own a car you dont have have auto insurance. the lawas regarding auto insurance are STATE laws , not federal ones. obama care is tyranny. YOU are the product of intense marxist ( brainwashing)training.

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

And if you don't have a body, you don't need to buy health insurance.

And since everyone, without a single exception, will need expensive health care at one point or another in their lives, and will therefore need to obtain health insurance at that point, waiting until it is needed puts higher costs on everyone else. That's tyranny, especially when it most effects those who can least afford it.

Congress has the right to regulate all sorts of commercial activity. That's not Marxism, that's the Constitution.

But you just want to cry cry cry, because mommy never told you that sharing is good, not communist; that you live in, and are a part of, a society that has made it possible for you to own every single fucking thing you have, and yet feel zero obligation to give anything in return. Fuck your infantile selfishness.

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[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Clearly that happened to you at birth and all your teensy little brains leaked out. Poor baby.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28250) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I have a feeling that Blueballs won't last the day here. All such blatant haters should get the boot.

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

Tyranny is this forum being overrun by haters like you. God you multiply like rabbits, I wish you'd STFU and go start your own forum.

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

mary, my disgust with obama has to do with his ideology.

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

From my point of view, I don't like his ideology either. He is too right wing for my liking. If i was him, i would have taken out the stick and beat the living shit out of those who pride themselves on being obstructionists. But Hey, that's just me. Who knows, maybe he'll grow a pair when he wins in November. Get ready for an ass whoopin', punk. I believe he'll pull a Reagan and cut off the right wing from their beloved corporate welfare, which should really give you something to be disgusted with.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Sure it does, Mack.

What ideology is that exactly?

[-] 0 points by po6059 (72) 2 years ago

what exactly did i say that makes you classify me as a " hater"? being forced by the federal govt to purchase anything is tyranny. the healthcare in the usa is excellent.

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

To me you sounded just like one more Obama hater, maybe you're not. but I see Republicans talking out of both sides of their mouth, they don't want to have to pay for peoples' health care but they don't want the mandate either because that steps on their libertarian sensibilities. I just think they are focused on our social programs as "the problem" while talking about moon colonies for God's sake; and to hell with anybody who is needy even if they have good reason. Example, do you have any idea how many homeless vets there are. The Obama haters just disgust me and it's not even about his policies half the time. It's shameful that we can't get decent healthcare in this country. At first I was a little turned off about the mandate too but what choice is there? My understanding is that there will be a tax penalty if people don't purchase the insurance, it's not like they'll be thrown in jail.