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Forum Post: Socialism is an abject failure, so says Europe

Posted 8 years ago on March 1, 2012, 9:08 a.m. EST by aflockofdoofi (-18)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The President of the European Central Bank says the social safety net must be subject to severe austerity cuts inorder for Europe to begin to be productive again.


When will people learn capitalism and the hard work it requires is the only answer for mankind? There are no free lunches.

When a European leader says socialism is dead, stick a big fork in it.



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[-] 4 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

The most socialist countries in Europe -- France, Norway, Germany -- are doing just fine, thank you very much. Manufacturing sectors strong, net exporters, high quality of life. They're kicking our asses. Also, the quasi-socialist Chinese have had faster growth than any western nation for the past forty years. But hey, if you don't like socialism, don't call 911 when your house is on fire. We're cool with letting it burn. ;-)

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 8 years ago

I am pretty sure that the unemployment rate in France is even higher than it is here (9.8% as of Nov)

[-] 2 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

9.5 in France as of November and 7.7 in Sweden, 3.4 in Norway and 5.5 in Germany. The ephemeral amount of socialism in any mixed western economy is not the only factor contributing to the unemployment rate. What matters is how it fosters creative destruction via the safety net, allowing more people to sit idle temporarily, or retrain, as industries churn through new technologies. The better the social safety net, the faster the churn, the more robust the entrepreneurial economy. That's an economy where patents are born and new wealth is created. So it kinda makes sense that old wealth would fear it. Even though the system gave them everything they have today, they don't want it to be used by others who might knock them off the top of the hill. Decisions made in fear rarely come to good.

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

This might be the wackiest post in ages! Socialsm, by every definition completely kills innovation.

patents by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_patents

South Korea! has more patents than any dogshit socialist European country.

Sheesh liberals are pure liars.

[-] 1 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

Soonman Kwon, Seoul National University and Ian Holliday, City University of Hong Kong, have this to say to your bullshit:

"When the Asian financial crisis took a heavy toll on Korea in the late 1990s, policy makers responded by extending welfare policy. For many analysts, this was a paradoxical move, marking a fundamental reconfiguration of the social policy system. This article contests that interpretation. It examines the changes made to Korean social policy in recent years, and considers their impact on the Korean welfare state. It notes both that welfare extensions have been comparatively limited, and that they have often formed part of wider attempts to boost labour market flexibility. It thus concludes that limited expansion of the Korean welfare state is chiefly an attempt to bolster industrial competitiveness and economic growth."


You continue to be unimpressive in your attempts to lie and shout the truth away. Bye bye, birdie.


[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Social programs have NOTHING to do with the financial crisis in Europe.


THe contention has been debunked more often that I can count, and it just keeps coming back like recurring cancer. It is just another one of those unfounded myths that the Goebbels like 1%ers invented and repeated until it began looking like truth to the idiots who were already inclined to believe it.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 8 years ago

really it had nothing to do with Greece failing even though the social security benefits that they got are what caused this mess

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Greece social security payment were a tiny fraction of the problem an not the cause. Where do you get this shit? DO you limit your reading to Faux News editorials?

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 8 years ago

no i read all news thank you and spelling fox like Faux doesn't work since Faux sounds like Fo. I get my news from every media center i can find and yes the social security payments were a huge thing remember the riots that happened when they raised the age from like 55 to 65. Believe me it takes something like that to send them falling and they have been falling for a long long time.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The black market economy, a widespread refusal to pay taxes, a guild system that killed growth, and a host of other factors created huge debts, along with enormous capital inflows from western Europe all created unsustainable foreign debt without the ability of a national currency (hence national monetary mechanisms) to address the problems. Greece was certainly partly responsible, but so were the get rich quick schemes of the European bankers. And the social safety net was only a fraction of the issue.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 8 years ago

ok ill agree to disagree with you, because your are not looking at all the factors

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

You are looking at Greece alone and you are looking at the social safety net alone, yet you claim I'M the one not looking at all the factors? Amazing.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 8 years ago

im not going into it i better things to do i just suggest you read about how Greece caused themselves to fail before you press on

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

I have read about it. Extensively. Many, many hours. Indeed, I knew this was going to happen a couple of years before it did. So did everyone but the bankers, who kept pouring more money in in the hopes of quick profits.

Did I ever once say that Greece did not contribute to the cause of its problems? Or did I say that their social safety net was only one minor factor?

The OP suggests that Europe's economic problems are because of social programs. They are demonstrably not.

[-] 0 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 8 years ago

greece failed because it ran out of money to support their big government. 30 percent of greece's workforce works for the government, if you call what greeks do work. government employees (in public unions) have great perks, pensions and are corrupt. most businesses have left greece.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Their debt was NOT caused primarily by their social safety net, your attempted conflation of issues aside.

[-] -1 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 8 years ago

I never said ' social safety net' . said big government and public employee pensions and perks. I know that you want to blame the 'bankers'. but that's not why greece failed its clearing government spending and a corrupt country (i.e. tax avoidence and cronism)..

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Greece failed for a large variety of reasons. But the OP suggests that the reasons for all of European failure is its socialist component (aka social safety net) of the economy. Not only is NOT all of Europe failing, but the socialist aspects (aka social safety net) of the economy were NOT the cause of most of those in trouble. Indeed, they have been the drivers of whatever recovery is happening, and that recovery is being hampered by austerity measures imposed by the capitalist side of the economy, the banks. Most of those in trouble are because of the GLOBAL recession started by US and spread there. The Problems have been made far worse by the banks imposition of austerity measures, and that furthering of the crisis was predicted accurately.

As to Greece, its problems are unique, and are attributable to a whole variety of issues. Tax avoidance, cronyism, economy killing guilds, mismanagement, cheap capital inflow, the lack of a sovereign currency, and the very structure of the Euro have all contributed. Has their social safety net (pensions, perks, etc) contributed? In the most minor ways, maybe. Other countries with similar, and indeed more generous social safety programs are doing just fine. In fact, they are flourishing. It the other issues that caused the problem in Greece.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 8 years ago

Bah, they just need to all start growing pot... http://rt.com/news/spain-town-marijuana-farming-697/

Like this charming Spanish town.

[-] 1 points by badlimey (48) 8 years ago

Well they would wouldn't they. The central banks have every incentive to eradicate those that are surplus to their needs. Social programs rarely take as much from a budget as say "defense" spending. Let's take on the Global central Banking system. That should be step 1, and it CAN be done.

When I was 17 I was in the British Army and I wanted out. They weren't going to let me (No matter how much trouble I got in). Eventually I hit the military law books and found a legal loophole. 3 months later I was back on the street with an exemplary service record.

The point is, you are pissing in the wind if you think you can change the world by singing Kumbya and staging public protests. I guarantee that "they" have been planning for this event (OWM) for a long time. The homeland security act is all they need to whisk you away, never to be seen again.

The only thing frustrating "them" at the moment is this horizontal, consensus of opinion model that seems to have been adopted; it makes it difficult to identify the leadership.

You have to play the game according to the rules in place, it would not be that difficult to beat "them" by using the same tools they use to cement control over the populous, but I digress.

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 8 years ago

If you look at GDP rankings... the US is 10th or 12th depending on who's statistics... if you look who is above the US, they are mostly European socialist countries.

Since GDP is the go to statistic for measuring economic success... If anything it means we should stick a big fork in corporate capitalism.

[-] 1 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

No, again you arevwrong. Its mostly countries, and very tiny countries at that, with OI or finance. Norway? Oil. Denmark? Oil. Netherlands, Switzerland, finance. Now the bigger countries, all well behind USA. We have the highest per capita GDP of any large country and its not close. We have 300000000 people! Norway? 4 milion. Sweden Ireland? 6 milion.

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 8 years ago

Size does not always matter, or so I am told.

It truly does not matter in this case, because if your countries GDP is higher than some other country, generally you are better off. This is not the case when a country has a high gini coefficient, which of course the Euro-socialist countries have a low gini coeffecient, and we have one comparable to mexico and argentina... not exactly 1st world.

[-] 1 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

So we are faintly behind Norway and Sweden, but Way ahead of India, Pakistan, Russia, Indonesia, China, Brazil and Germany, France, Italy,

Hmmmm? Sounds lie we are doing great!

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 8 years ago

If not being 1st world, and not being the best is great... then yeah, were f-ing golden!

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 8 years ago

Capitalism is private tyranny and command economy

"There are no free lunches."

Yeah there are! In fact we get free rides and free lunches all the time. The entire society is a huge free ride society:


[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

you mean to say "when a european banker (not leader) says socialism is dead" - as brecht said - "Which is the greater crime, to rob a bank or to own one?" didn't you beloved free market capitalism get us into this mess?

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

Honestly, what mess? Yes, real estate was grossly over valued. People continued to borrow and banks were willing to lend on almost valueless property. The Federal government wrongly believed home ownership should be aggessively pursued for all Americans, but this was a very dangerous policy.


[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 8 years ago

All for robbing banks say "aye" ...


[-] 1 points by wn030 (56) 8 years ago

Yeah, this was a great idea :-] post capitalistic extremistm right-wing views on occupywallst.org and wait what happens. Next joke, please?

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

The actual title of the article is "ECB President Draghi Declares War on Europe’s Social Safety Nets" and it is pointing out that "Draghi" is quite wrong in calling for austerity! You post an article and your analysis of it is completely 180' counter to the info. in the article itself, strange.

"Can he really not see what happened in Ireland and Latvia, and what is taking place in Greece? Did he somehow not notice that Greece falls short of its growth targets every time the screws are turned tighter? This is like watching a medieval doctor apply more leeches to a patient that has already passed out from blood loss. There is no prosperity happy ending in this story, save for a very few at the top. And the process is not “belt tightening” but open warfare on basic social structures."

[-] -1 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

If Socialism was working why would Draghi need to declare war on it? Draghi's original comments were in the Wall Street Journal. And if Draghi is wrong, as this article implies, why is Europe in trouble? Its very easy to "say" Draghi is wrong, but with Greece, Ireland, Italy and Spain in dire straits, and France nearing dire straits, we have clear evident proof! not some "opinion" of a leftist blogger.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

The 'war of austerity', is how wealth is shifted from the many to the few. The debt is created by bailing out bankers, then the people get to pay back the bail-out debt, with compounded interest for the next 50 years,. and they pay it back to the same banksters who got the bail-out to begin with!

"why is Europe in trouble?" it is being attacked by the banksters, striped of as much wealth as they can take. Look at Iceland they told the banksters to fck-off and defaulted on the made up debt. Their economy is already recovering. Greece should do the same, and all the rest as well. The 1% can control who gets into gov. and then manipulate these tools to run up huge debts, military and police state spending is never cut, but cut social programs to pay back the stolen money. It is very clear what is going on, wake up and smell the fascism, this is not a 'socialist system', it is banksters plundering the people.

[-] -1 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

Iceland, Iceland, Iceland. Is that your argument? Iceland has 300,000 total inhabitants. It is an utterly insignificant country.

If socialism worked, Greece would be its shining star. As it is, Greece is a star, a black hole of fiscal irresponsibilty.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

How was I talking about socialism, you miss the plot intentionally? Oh yes, you have big nasty hate on for; the evil of "Socialism",. well get help with that, humans are social. We will always work together to solve out collective problems with collectivist solutions.

There is not a sharp line between the dichotomous capitalist-socialist systems, all economic systems are, or will be, a mix of these two trends. Get over yourself, I was talking about Iceland because they where faced with the Greece situation, and choose to default on bankster created debt, instead of rolling over and letting the bankers plunder the place for many years.

Your 'point' that because central banker is pushing austerity, this some how proves 'socialism' can't work is asinine. The banker is pushing to continue an ongoing robbery. Telling people to voluntarily hand over their retirements, healthcare systems, and viable economies, only to grow the wealth of the 1% You are screaming at the very problem the central banker pushing another bubble ponzi scam!

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

What about Germany? It has a more robust social safety net than any of the PIGGS countries and IT is the one bailing THEM out.

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

Germany has revenue issues, too. Its system is unsustainable, mathematically. It has a dramatically aging population. Right now there are 33 retirees for every 100 workers. In short order, like 20 years it will be 50:50.

It also has a hefty VAT of 19%. That hits everyone, rich and poor alike. In the US, the poor pay no income tax and only pay 7.8%FICA and the local sales tax.

Our taxation level is about 17% of GDP. In Germany, its over 40%, but a far higher % falls on lower income people. My guess is that the German people feel like they are in it together, while in the US, the wealthy pay virtually all of the tax burden.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Taxation is indeed higher in Germany for everyone. Income disparity is also MUCH lower. Poverty of the kind we see in the USA is nearly unheard of, and the working class can afford to pay more taxes. And their income taxes are still more effectively progressively graduated than ours.

Socialism is part of the overall economic system in all of Europe. They have mixed economies. Those social safety nets have NOT been the cause of the recession over there, which is part of a GLOBAL recession begun over HERE, and spread to them like a virus. Once the problems began, they were made infinitely WORSE by the CB's imposition of Austerity measures. And even with that, most of them are doing better than we are in the States. Unlike us, 50% of THEIR population does not live at or near the poverty line.

The meme that a generous social safety net is the driver of Europe's recession is simply a lie. In fact it is a lie that is exactly the opposite of the reality. It was created by the bankers, the capitalists, as was the recession itself. Those same bankers, the capitalists, made it worse as well. And the social safety net is the one thing that blunted its most negative impacts on the population and have aided in the slow recovery the most. That recovery is being jeopardized by the Banks, the capitalist side of the economies.

In the US, the wealthy do NOT pay virtually all the tax burden. It is another completely unfounded myth. As a percentage of income, if one includes sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, state and local taxes, and payroll taxes, etc, the poor and near poor pay more overall.

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

Quite frankly, you do not know what you are talking about. Very very sad.

Why is Greece having to impose austerity on lts people? Learn, please. I was in Greece 10 months ago, its a shit hole. Graffitti everywhere. No one works and they ALL evade taxes.

You and your misguided opinions are worthless. I travel to Europe every year, Germany, Italy, Ireland, France Spain. your contention that most are doing better thn the US is strictly a complete utter lie. I have seen with my own 2 eyes how small European life is. I hsve many European friends and they will admit, in plain language, Americns are far more prosperous and wealthy than Europeans. Euroe had no productivity and no growth.Its an aging, dying continent and hardcore racism is everywhere.

You liberals can fool people with your lies but you cant fool someone who has spent significant time over there. Per capita income in America is far higher than any large European country.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

"....they ALL evade taxes"

Didn't I just say that? That's not an example of a social safety net being the cause of economic collapse, now is it?

Your European "friends" (no doubt they friends bed=cause they agree with your bullshit) clearly aren't aware that FIFTY PERCENT of Americans love at or near the poverty line. By every social and economic measure, Europeans have a better quality of life - better health, longer lives, better public education, better income distribution, more secure retirement, less abject poverty and so on - than the USA.

Per capita income? Are your kidding me? How are you measuring that? The top 400 people in the US have more wealth than the bottom 150,000,000. Is it THEIR per capita you're talking about?


[-] -1 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

You are such a dishonest piece of ship. An utter worthless pile of crap. I bet you love to lie because people enjoy shitting in your lying piehole.

America's poverty rate is 13.9% assclown. 50%? what a foolish dogworm piece of excrement.

Open wide, liar.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

The latest census report shows clearly that 50% of all Americans currently live at OR NEAR the poverty rate. That is what the government is saying. Your ignorance of that makes you, well ignorant.

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 8 years ago

Not that you needed the support... but epa1nter, you have wiped the floor with aflock.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Support is always appreciated. Thank you.

But Republitard fascists and Libertardians like Aflock will never be convinced by actual facts or evidence; they are too bound up with some bizarre self-referential mythology. Their mindset is exactly akin to those Al Queda fundamentalists they detest, only theirs is the religion and mythology of Capitalism. They believe they will get 40 virgin Vegas showgirls and a gun if they only have enough faith.

[-] 1 points by airplaneradio (50) 8 years ago

Ha, even the lite-socialism that Europe was doing was too damn corrupt.

GUYZ, if we just do 'REAL socialism'! Then the Marxist paradise will occur!

Nothing works. Humans, despite being good, are also bad. So get what you can and get out.

[-] 2 points by airplaneradio (50) 8 years ago

Capitalism, Socialism, Commuism, Syndicalism, Anarchism. Any ISM has enough loopholes for human depravity.

[-] -1 points by bozocountdown321 (-26) 8 years ago

you need a psychiatrist-it has never worked and never will - MORON; definition-repeating the same activity over and over getting the same result but expecting another

[-] 1 points by airplaneradio (50) 8 years ago

You do realize I said I do not want socialism and was mocking it. Please read more carefully between the lines next time before you insult those who agree with you.

[-] 1 points by jart (1186) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Ignore the troll.

[-] -2 points by bozocountdown321 (-26) 8 years ago

Moron; Definition Repeating the same activity over and over getting the same result but expecting a different one-alternate; Marxism

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 8 years ago

Of course, the President of the European Central Bank would say that. What motive might he have? Gee, I wonder.

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

What could possibly be his motive?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Tr@shy : It is you, who is an "abject failure" !!!

With the above 'forum-post' you're fooling no one other than yourself and your Corporate Canadian Paymasters. This schizoid, duplicitous and mendacious behaviour could be considered certifiable behaviour back in Canada but alas, in Bali, where folk are so tolerant of stupid, drug addled foreigners - it is indulged and ignored !!

Give it up 'TrashyManqué' before your Multiple Personality becomes ever more Disordered and you end up being deported back to Canada in a straight-jacket !

caveat actor ...

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 8 years ago


[-] 0 points by tbuontempo (194) from Jersey City, NJ 8 years ago

People will never accept the lies of the capitalists. Capitalism is the devil's ideology.

It is based on ego and the self.


[-] 0 points by ancientmariner (275) 8 years ago

The President of the European Central Bank? What the hell would be surprizing about bankers not liking social reform? Jesus, I've seen some stupid posts here at times, but this is over the top.

What the hell makes you think we're going to listen to the opinions of bankers regarding a crisis caused by bankers?

*&@#^ $ !!!

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

The ECB is like the Fed Reserve, its not a profit making entity. He gains zilch from lending.

wow, are you stoooopid.

[-] 2 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

All Central Banks make a percentage of interest on every unit of currency they put into the economy. That's what bonds are for. Our currencies are backed by public debt and the ECB (and Fed) collect a LOT of money for the privilege of controlling our sovereignty. They are not government agencies, they are private corporations chartered to mint currency backed by bonds.

Do a little reading next time you feel like calling someone stupid.

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

Mario Draghi took a 50% pay cut to become ECB president. He has no incentives in his contract to lend money. He is telling it like it is because that is his duty.

Yes you are more than stoooopid, you are plain fucking stoooopid.

[-] 1 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

So what that he took a pay cut? Being the sovereign of one of the world's most important currencies has plenty of rewards for his friends and, ultimately, for himself. He doesn't need incentives, every Euro he puts into the market is loaned money that has to be paid back, with interest. The interest rate is partly determined by the ability of each member state to back the creation of new money with public debt. Whether it's the Fed with bonds or the ECB with repo agreements, all new money is created with new debt that ultimately devolves to the taxpayers. That's the way the system works, which is clearly something you didn't know, Mr. Economist.

You throw insults around like a chimp throws his own crap. Very impressive.

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

Well monkey brain, the ECB is lending now at a rate of less than 1%. Thats less than the inflation rate and as such represents a LOSS to the bank. Since I am the most brilliant economist on this ship of dullards, let me help you and your room temperature IQ a bit.

Lending money below the rate of inflation helps those to whom you are lending. You are giving them FREE money. Its charity, pure and simple. Yes the money has to be paid back but you are paying it back with money WAY less valuable than was loaned to you. I could literally borrow $100,000 euros, buy that much in gold today, and if the gold rises 2 or 3% a year, I have made a killing and the bank got crushed.

Yes you are STOOOOPID.

[-] 1 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

One, the rate governments have to pay to borrow from the ECB varies by country and length of contract, and, among other things, each government's ability to cover their debt. Greek debt has seen yields as high as 40% in recent months, which, in case you've been paying any attention at all, is a big reason why the Greeks are having such a hard time paying the bills, genius. And the Austrian model of austerity as a way of freeing up money to service debt to bring down interest rates ignores the loss of economic activity and corresponding tax revenue that is needed to service the debt as part of the original bargain.

Two, it doesn't matter how much interest is collected, it wasn't the ECB's money to begin with so any interest earned is found money. Central banks print as much money and add as much liquidity as any nation would if national treasuries ran the show. The only difference is that the central banks get to keep a chunk of this extra found money in the form of bond interest, courtesy of the taxpayers.

And now you know why the income tax was born at the same time as the Federal Reserve system, which was sold as a way to prevent the series of booms and busts that beset the country and benefited only the wealthiest few throughout the 19th century. Nowadays we call that phenomenon the "business cycle." Yep, the independent central banking system has been a smashing success. Anything a central banker says is good as gold. Put it in the bank! hahaha

Thanks for stopping by, little one. Go run and play with the other kids now.

[-] 0 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 8 years ago

no again you are wrong. As usual. Interest rates are high because of the risk of default. Greece debt is 160% of GDP. Why? lack of fiscal discipine.

[-] 1 points by ancientmariner (275) 8 years ago

You think he doesn't gain, and you call me stoooopid?

[-] 0 points by lollercoaster (38) 8 years ago

The ECB makes lots of prophets...

[-] 0 points by rayl (1007) 8 years ago

there's more money to be squeezed out of the european safety net and this position of ECB president Mario Draghi is simply part of the attack on the common people of europe. there's enough wealth in this world for even more generous 'safety nets' than the europeans have. the money just happens to be tied up in the hands of a minority of people on this planet

[-] 2 points by TheMisfit (48) 8 years ago

This statement seems to indicate that you think there is a finite amount of money on this planet. Not so, through fiat currencies, there is now room for exponential growth. It doesn't matter how much money the wealthy have as there is room to create more. Unfortunately, when the government only wants to take what is already out there and give it to others rather than help create new avenues to create new wealth, you have what is happening in Europe today (and in the US soon).

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 8 years ago

thanks for the clarification.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 8 years ago

i like this post

[-] -1 points by bozocountdown321 (-26) 8 years ago

Moron; Definition Repeating the same activity over and over getting the same result but expecting a different one-alternate; He who practices Marxism

[-] -2 points by newbornsheep (3) 8 years ago

obama wants a european social state

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

He doesn't, but I do.

[-] -2 points by amGreed (-8) 8 years ago

Great post