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Forum Post: Should We Reinstate the Draft.....Yes

Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 3:19 p.m. EST by puff6962 (4052)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A military draft should be reinstated, one that would require equal numbers of draftees from each 10 percent increments of income levels in our population. This would provide a military that is representative of each cross section of our population. It would mean, however, that those who came from families in the upper 20% ranges would more likely be asked to serve. I think that this stipulation, alone, would place a damper on any more foolish wars (I could be wrong). But, the powerful don't usually like to send their kids off to war. Also, it would revive some semblance of service and shared sacrifice to our country. It's simply disgusting that many GI's have went through 14 deployments in Iraq or Afghanistan, or have been "stopped out." This is a forgotten army....it has served admirably....but this can simply never be allowed to happen again.

36 Comments

36 Comments


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[-] 1 points by GeorgeMichaelBluth (402) from Arlington, VA 11 years ago

What a stupid idea. Firstly the illegal wars where these people are sent to their deaths, then making their part mandatory? How stupid. A government does not own it's citizens.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

That is the point. If there was a shared sacrifice on the part of all classes of Americans, then there would unlikely be any more illegal wars. Don't mistake your own stupidity for the fallacy of an argument.

[-] 1 points by GeorgeMichaelBluth (402) from Arlington, VA 11 years ago

Well at least we agree the wars are illegal, but answer this, does a government own it's people?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

its hard to believe anybody would be insane enough to propose a draft in this information economy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA

I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
  8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
  9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
  10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
  11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

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[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 11 years ago

High unemployment keeps a ready supply of cannon fodder available. A draft would put an immediate end to all wars.

This is the real lesson of Vietnam, and why there is no draft. That, and not to publicize the war(s) and body counts on television every night.

[-] 1 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 11 years ago

"High unemployment keeps a ready supply of cannon fodder available"

You don't know what the HELL you are talking about.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 11 years ago

I appreciate that your son is serving this country, but I suggest that he would be better serving it by not participating in actions designed solely to benefit corporate interests at public expense. I also suggest that if you wish to argue against a point of view, that you do so with logic, reason and information rather than emotion.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

We went to war in Iraq because of daddy issues. Saddam had attempted to kill George the first when he was on a good will trip to post war Kuwait. George the second did not forget this.

It is very Freudian, but the man even admitted it once....once.

http://articles.cnn.com/2002-09-27/politics/bush.war.talk_1_homeland-security-senators-from-both-parties-republican-phil-gramm?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 11 years ago

Iraq has the world's 2nd or 3rd largest oil reserves. Bush II went after that and profits for the military industrial complex, energy companies and financial institutions such as The Carlyle Group (H.W. Bush's defense and energy investment firm, in partnership with the Saudis), as directed by Halliburton CEO and acting president Cheney.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

Oh, ya, that one too. Daddy issues, greed, incompetence.....your average neocon.

[-] 1 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 11 years ago

The military doesn't want or need people who have to be legislated into service.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

machine machine will scrub them clean

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

The military doesn't run foreign or domestic policy, nor does it really have any interest in what is best for our society. The military's role is to defend this country. They have done just fine with a draft in the past.

And, most importantly, do you really believe that we would have entered into Iraq if 20% of the ground soldiers came from the upper 20% crust of our socioeconomic caste?

A draft means that our military is not outsourced to a group of professionals, captive professionals, and the burden is distributed. With a draft, there would have been a ground swell of opposition to the war in Iraq from all classes. Without it, this forgotten army has been left to wither on the vine.

[-] 1 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 11 years ago

No one here in our family has forgotten the army. Sorry if that is not the case in yours.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

Ya, right. How many closed head wounds, that will require a lifetime of care, have come out of Iraq? Don't google it asshole, just realize that if you really cared for these guys, you would have been screaming on the doorsteps of your congressman's office to prevent this most stupid and disastrous war in American history. Pissant.

[-] 1 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 11 years ago

Pissant?

I'm sorry, but you are speaking to a military mom here whose only son left LAST NIGHT for his third tour of duty.

Do not presume to suggest that I have to "Google" ANYTHING for information on what these wars have cost.

I am done.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

Then, as much as you care for your son, you should see the logic of requiring shared sacrifice by all spectrums in our society instead of some esoteric argument that the military won't take draftees.

[-] 0 points by dantes44 (431) from Alexandria, VA 11 years ago

PolkaDot may be too much of a lady so I'll say it for her

Fuck you you little shit.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

Ya. Where were you in 2003 when every honest voice was saying that Bush was a liar and we were being led into a disaster. Those deaths, those lives ruined, lay in your incompetence, your lack of true patriotism, your naivety, and your desire to run with the crowd. You truly messed up. The sad thing is that you will make the same mistake over and over again.

[-] 0 points by dantes44 (431) from Alexandria, VA 11 years ago

Yeah. Way to screw the morale of the military.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

I would prefer that everybody served, with the exception of those who receive a qualified medical deferral (the 1%ers?), in either a two year military or civil capacity... might help reduce unemployment.

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[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

Glenn, is that you?

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[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 11 years ago

Na, your blackboard gave you away.

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