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Forum Post: Schindler's List

Posted 1 year ago on Sept. 21, 2012, 9:58 p.m. EST by GNAT (150)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Trailer

If you haven't watched it, watch it, NOW. If you are a parent, a teacher, anyone of influence, get the youth (12+, reality is obscene) to watch, to learn. This part of history is being forgotten and the lessons being unlearned. We throw around words like Nazi and fascism but they do not convey anything. Names and labels won't cut it. It was human beings that committed such acts. After that, some Vietnam or Korean war documentaries or films, like Good Morning Vietnam. Hollywood is no longer making movies about the realities of war, now they only glorify it. Don't allow our culture, our kids, to be consumed by such darkness without at least some resistance.

45 Comments

45 Comments


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[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 1 year ago

Only remembering the atrocities and not the reasons that caused them is dangerous. You see now a conflict between Islamic and Western values that is difficult to solve. If the situation gets out of control, more and more people may demand solutions to this problem, for example expelling Muslims.

One of the reasons the Nazis did get control over Germany was that a small group of wealthy Jews did relatively well during the difficult years between 1919 and 1933, while at the same time many Germans faced economic hardship. This is something to be remembered as this is situation is not much different from the current situation in the United States.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago
  1. All cultures value faith and family. What divides us is not values but culture. Note the demands to punish the makers of the recent inflammatory video, with no recognition for free speech, because they've never had such a right.

  2. There were laws in place to oppress the Jewish community in Germany long before Hitler even joined the workers party and it was an easily appointed common enemy to rally around. Much the same way the fanatics in our political system use Islam in current discourse.

[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 1 year ago

I live in the Netherlands and the discussion about this cultural conflict has ran its course. I am also on a message board with Muslims so I have a good idea of how most Muslims think. Islam means surrender to God. Islam conflicts with Western values, most notably the freedom of speech.

Anti-Semitism has a long history and Adolf Hitler did not hate the Jews because they were such an easy target but because he thought Jews were evil. To make this a simplistic right versus wrong issue will not solve anti-Semitism and it will make future trouble more likely.

There are not many people that are intentionally evil. You have to step out of the good versus evil thinking and go over into cause and consequence thinking. What are the causes of cultural conflicts? What are the consequences?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Your understanding comes from the conjecture of idiots. You haven't the background on the issue to justify debating with you. I was offering a correction that you refuse. Feel free to continue in forceful ignorance without me.

[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 1 year ago

You tell me what I have to think.

You are mistaken and you will find out.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20479) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

this post does not behave normally when I comment - ok, now it does behave normally. What is going on.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Bottomed out, ZenDude?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

There were over twenty-three million deaths in the Soviet Union during WWII and shortly afterwards.

Most of them starved to death in concentration camps set up by UK and US forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20479) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

wtF?

.

**Most of them starved to death in concentration camps set up by UK and US forces.

.

I cannot believe you said that. Where do you get your facts? Out of your morning cereal box?

  • The Nazi crimes against Soviet Prisoners of War relate to the deliberately genocidal policies taken towards the captured soldiers of the Soviet Union by Nazi Germany. These efforts resulted in some 3.3 to 3.5 million deaths, about 60% of all Soviet POWs.[1][2][3][4][5]

  • The Battle of Stalingrad was a major and decisive battle of World War II in which Nazi Germany and its allies fought the Soviet Union for control of the city of Stalingrad (now Volgograd) in the southwestern Soviet Union. The battle took place between 23 August 1942 to 2 February 1943[6][7][8][9] and was marked by constant close-quarters combat, and lack of regard for military and civilian casualties. It is among the bloodiest battles in the history of warfare, with the higher estimates of combined casualties amounting to nearly two million. The heavy losses inflicted on the German army made it a significant turning point in the whole war.[10] After the Battle of Stalingrad, German forces never recovered their earlier strength, and attained no further strategic victories in the East.[11]

  • The Siege of Leningrad, also known as the Leningrad Blockade (Russian: блокада Ленинграда, transliteration: blokada Leningrada) was a prolonged military operation resulting from the failure of the German Army Group North to capture Leningrad—historically and currently known as Saint Petersburg—in the Eastern Front theatre of World War II. The siege started on 8 September 1941, when the last land connection to the city was severed. Although the Soviets managed to open a narrow land corridor to the city on 18 January 1943, lifting of the siege took place on 27 January 1944, 872 days after it began. It was one of the longest and most destructive sieges in history and overwhelmingly the most costly in terms of casualties.[7]

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and then there is this - from your own goddamned link:

.

.

Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians: Sources in the English language estimate 4.5 to 11.7 million Soviet civilians were victims of Nazi ethnic cleansing and the war.[48][49][50] A report published by the Russian Academy of Science in 1995 put the civilian death toll due to the German occupation at 13.7 million.[51][52] Contemporary Russian sources use the terms "genocide" and "premeditated extermination" when referring to civilian losses in the occupied USSR. Civilians killed in reprisals during the Soviet partisan war and wartime related famine account for a major part the huge toll.[53] Russian sources include Jewish Holocaust deaths with total civilian deaths and do not list them separately.

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Most of them starved to death in concentration camps set up by UK and US forces.

that's a crock of shit. Most of the Soviet dead were the result of Nazi extermination policy.

You can't even read your own link. .

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You've found a purpose today, Zen.

Beats railing at trolls, yes?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20479) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Does it? Because suddenly that is exactly what you resemble, another fucking troll.

You stated above:

Which is of course a grotesque misrepresentation of the facts. Well over ten percent of the total Soviet deaths occurred as a result of

Whatever number of Soviets may have died after liberation by allied forces, it must be clear that it is a tiny fraction of the total killed during the war, and that even these deaths came as a result of Nazi policy and for no other reason.

You're a fuckin liar - the question is why?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It was the Germans that were starved to death in camps after the war ended.

My mistake. The memory doesn't function too well lately.

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[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Taking what was said out of context in order to justify slamming people with your ignorance. SOP around here.

http://www.pbs.org/behindcloseddoors/in-depth/stalins-spies.html

Just a taste. Go to the library, I'm sure you can find it.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Zen often corrects me on points of order.

It's what he does, Richard. Bit like a mother hen, or cocky rooster.

The main thing is, he's refocussed.

Bonus.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20479) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

out of context?

There were over twenty-three million deaths in the Soviet Union during WWII and shortly afterwards.

Most of them starved to death in concentration camps set up by UK and US forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths

.

that's what he said Richard. That is what he said. I took nothing out of context. I took it as he said it.

I've studied a fair amount of WWII - both formally and otherwise. Since there is a tremendous amount of history that is embraced by what we call Holocaust Studies it should surprise no one to find facets of it that are not well known -

How many have heard of Camp Dora, for example? A satellite camp to Auschwitz . . .

How many are aware that there were 60,000 slave laborers attached to that camp, that between one third and one half of them died as a result of starvation, disease, and execution?

Some of those executed were accused of sabotage - in the assembly of V2 rockets.

And how many are aware, this is one facility where Werner von Braun had authority?


I have never heard it said that the U.S. or U.K. forces were responsible for setting up concentration camps, or that starvation was common in them.

  • never.
[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

I have never heard it said that the U.S. or U.K. forces were responsible for setting up concentration camps, or that starvation was common in them.

although there was no starvation in the domestic camps, everyone knows about the Japanese internment camps. It's a friendlier way of saying 'concentration camp'.

Then there are prison camps for POWs, unfriendly refugee camps, these can all be called concentration camps just the same and the USSR , the UK, the US, all had these types of camps. Disease, starvation, slaughter, the list goes on. The killing of the Jews was a horrific and intentional act and this is not up for debate. What you imply and where you are wrong is in assuming the majority of WWII deaths were a result of Jewish extermination. There were roughly 70 million deaths as a result of that war. Staggering, isn't it.

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I have always been familiar with the history of Stalin killing millions - I was just never aware of post war prison camp deaths. History matters - in where one is taught it. Some things get left out or not depending - Hey?

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[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Unimaginable suffering. These things cannot be forgotten.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I agree, Richard. All the deaths of that conflict should never be forgotten.

Why the focus on one group of people?

Starving Russian POW's to the death by the millions, by Allied forces after the cease-fire is somehow less of an insult to humanity?

Just because there's been no movies made about it?

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[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You're asking two different questions that have two different answers.

I know about the camps, I know there are a lot of aspects about that point in history that are gruesome. Yes, it is all important in my opinion.

Do I think movies are required to introduce such concepts to youth and the uninformed? Yes. Until people are given a reason to look beyond the entertainment industry for information, influence, and inspiration, they will not do so. You must provide the information in a way they are accustomed to until they are ready to break that habit. Teaching them to fly in a sense.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

My argument is, that the focus seems to be only on the one group of people, who just happened to be part of a diaspora, meaning they came from most of the countries of the conflict.

There were ten million Germans starved to death in allied camps after the war. It wasn't always the fault of the allies either. Food was chronically short in supply for everyone.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

The aspect that matters most to me, can be seen in this thread. There is no documentary about the children of war. The orphaned who wander the acreage of armageddon in search of comfort, care, survival. Bombs ripping through children. Families torn and terrified. It isn't about race or religion if that is your point. I simply have a realistic approach to keeping the memory alive, to making sure the lessons are not forgotten.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes. Agreed, Richard.

There's never been any focus on the civilian victims of the Iraq invasion, or the polluting of the water supply with depleted uranium, so the next generation is crippled with illness. Apparently millions of Iraqis fled to Syria for sanctuary. Where can they run to now?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Civilians are always the largest group of victims in any conflict and they never are given the attention they deserve for the horrors that they endure. Nope The Powers That Pee do not want people to consider the true horrors the true victims of war - victims of both sides of the fighting.

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[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Policy direction makes it worse.

Despite an arbitrary rule that any man killed by drones is declared an enemy terrorist, the death of nearby innocent women and children is accepted as inevitable. After more than 30 airstrikes on civilian homes this year in Afghanistan, President Hamid Karzai has demanded that such attacks end, but the practice continues in areas of Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen that are not in any war zone. We don’t know how many hundreds of innocent civilians have been killed in these attacks, each one approved by the highest authorities in Washington. This would have been unthinkable in previous times.

These policies clearly affect American foreign policy. Top intelligence and military officials, as well as rights defenders in targeted areas, affirm that the great escalation in drone attacks has turned aggrieved families toward terrorist organizations,

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/opinion/americas-shameful-human-rights-record.html?_r=2

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Drone attacks and the civilian casualties they cause are what make our current government a terrorist state. Anyone who would deny that fact is an idiot or blind or is unwilling and/or unable to accept the truth.

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Lebanon, & Turkey seem to be the new destination.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Get off my thread you hateful vile piece of shit.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Please refrain from the abusive obscenities.

I see you pushing the right wing anti Social Security non sense.

It is one of the most successful govt programs in history. And republicans have been trying to destroy it from the beginning. I think they don't like that dems benefit at the ballot box for creating, supporting, & defending it.

Is that why you are against SS.?

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You are at war on this forum every day, against fellow Americans, driven by hate and labeling. You have no interest in peace nor do you posses the emotions requited to appreciate it. You are hate incarnate. This thread is not for you.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You're repeating your hatefulness. Please stop.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You're posting on my thread. Don't want my response, stop posting on my threads. We know, you hate republicans, go tell it to someone that wants to hear it. On this thread, it's off topic.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't hate anyone. Why would you say such a horrible thing?

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

NO!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You are at war on this forum every day, against fellow Americans, driven by hate and labeling. You have no interest in peace nor do you posses the emotions requited to appreciate it. You are hate incarnate. This thread is not for you.

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I think you have lost all sense of reality. I am not being hateful. YOU are.

So stop it, please.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Are you lonely? Get off my thread.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

Oh geez. That completely changes my mental picture of this person. Much more disturbing now.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

Just ignore him, he wants you to respond. I doubt anyone takes him that seriously anymore after the cone of shame incident anyways.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Good call. *She. VQ is a female.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You don't think it's my anti republican partisanship they don't like? You think it's the "cone of shame incident"?

LMFAO!

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

How would you know my gender? Is that just your fantasies?

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

NO! Please refrain from the hatefulness!

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[-] -2 points by Orwellwuzright (-84) from Lockeford, CA 1 year ago

Unadulterated bullshit masquerading as fact. Why don't all of you Marxist lovers talk about how many people communism has killed. Makes the nazis look like amatures.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Read the post, Orwell.

Russians were communists then, remember?

[-] -2 points by Orwellwuzright (-84) from Lockeford, CA 1 year ago

Sigh.........