Forum Post: Schindler's List
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 21, 2012, 9:58 p.m. EST by GNAT
(150)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
If you haven't watched it, watch it, NOW. If you are a parent, a teacher, anyone of influence, get the youth (12+, reality is obscene) to watch, to learn. This part of history is being forgotten and the lessons being unlearned. We throw around words like Nazi and fascism but they do not convey anything. Names and labels won't cut it. It was human beings that committed such acts. After that, some Vietnam or Korean war documentaries or films, like Good Morning Vietnam. Hollywood is no longer making movies about the realities of war, now they only glorify it. Don't allow our culture, our kids, to be consumed by such darkness without at least some resistance.
Only remembering the atrocities and not the reasons that caused them is dangerous. You see now a conflict between Islamic and Western values that is difficult to solve. If the situation gets out of control, more and more people may demand solutions to this problem, for example expelling Muslims.
One of the reasons the Nazis did get control over Germany was that a small group of wealthy Jews did relatively well during the difficult years between 1919 and 1933, while at the same time many Germans faced economic hardship. This is something to be remembered as this is situation is not much different from the current situation in the United States.
All cultures value faith and family. What divides us is not values but culture. Note the demands to punish the makers of the recent inflammatory video, with no recognition for free speech, because they've never had such a right.
There were laws in place to oppress the Jewish community in Germany long before Hitler even joined the workers party and it was an easily appointed common enemy to rally around. Much the same way the fanatics in our political system use Islam in current discourse.
I live in the Netherlands and the discussion about this cultural conflict has ran its course. I am also on a message board with Muslims so I have a good idea of how most Muslims think. Islam means surrender to God. Islam conflicts with Western values, most notably the freedom of speech.
Anti-Semitism has a long history and Adolf Hitler did not hate the Jews because they were such an easy target but because he thought Jews were evil. To make this a simplistic right versus wrong issue will not solve anti-Semitism and it will make future trouble more likely.
There are not many people that are intentionally evil. You have to step out of the good versus evil thinking and go over into cause and consequence thinking. What are the causes of cultural conflicts? What are the consequences?
Your understanding comes from the conjecture of idiots. You haven't the background on the issue to justify debating with you. I was offering a correction that you refuse. Feel free to continue in forceful ignorance without me.
You tell me what I have to think.
You are mistaken and you will find out.
There were over twenty-three million deaths in the Soviet Union during WWII and shortly afterwards.
Most of them starved to death in concentration camps set up by UK and US forces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths
I have always been familiar with the history of Stalin killing millions - I was just never aware of post war prison camp deaths. History matters - in where one is taught it. Some things get left out or not depending - Hey?
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Unimaginable suffering. These things cannot be forgotten.
I agree, Richard. All the deaths of that conflict should never be forgotten.
Why the focus on one group of people?
Starving Russian POW's to the death by the millions, by Allied forces after the cease-fire is somehow less of an insult to humanity?
Just because there's been no movies made about it?
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You're asking two different questions that have two different answers.
I know about the camps, I know there are a lot of aspects about that point in history that are gruesome. Yes, it is all important in my opinion.
Do I think movies are required to introduce such concepts to youth and the uninformed? Yes. Until people are given a reason to look beyond the entertainment industry for information, influence, and inspiration, they will not do so. You must provide the information in a way they are accustomed to until they are ready to break that habit. Teaching them to fly in a sense.
My argument is, that the focus seems to be only on the one group of people, who just happened to be part of a diaspora, meaning they came from most of the countries of the conflict.
There were ten million Germans starved to death in allied camps after the war. It wasn't always the fault of the allies either. Food was chronically short in supply for everyone.
The aspect that matters most to me, can be seen in this thread. There is no documentary about the children of war. The orphaned who wander the acreage of armageddon in search of comfort, care, survival. Bombs ripping through children. Families torn and terrified. It isn't about race or religion if that is your point. I simply have a realistic approach to keeping the memory alive, to making sure the lessons are not forgotten.
Yes. Agreed, Richard.
There's never been any focus on the civilian victims of the Iraq invasion, or the polluting of the water supply with depleted uranium, so the next generation is crippled with illness. Apparently millions of Iraqis fled to Syria for sanctuary. Where can they run to now?
Civilians are always the largest group of victims in any conflict and they never are given the attention they deserve for the horrors that they endure. Nope The Powers That Pee do not want people to consider the true horrors the true victims of war - victims of both sides of the fighting.
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Policy direction makes it worse.
Despite an arbitrary rule that any man killed by drones is declared an enemy terrorist, the death of nearby innocent women and children is accepted as inevitable. After more than 30 airstrikes on civilian homes this year in Afghanistan, President Hamid Karzai has demanded that such attacks end, but the practice continues in areas of Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen that are not in any war zone. We don’t know how many hundreds of innocent civilians have been killed in these attacks, each one approved by the highest authorities in Washington. This would have been unthinkable in previous times.
These policies clearly affect American foreign policy. Top intelligence and military officials, as well as rights defenders in targeted areas, affirm that the great escalation in drone attacks has turned aggrieved families toward terrorist organizations,
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/opinion/americas-shameful-human-rights-record.html?_r=2
Drone attacks and the civilian casualties they cause are what make our current government a terrorist state. Anyone who would deny that fact is an idiot or blind or is unwilling and/or unable to accept the truth.
Lebanon, & Turkey seem to be the new destination.
Get off my thread you hateful vile piece of shit.
Please refrain from the abusive obscenities.
I see you pushing the right wing anti Social Security non sense.
It is one of the most successful govt programs in history. And republicans have been trying to destroy it from the beginning. I think they don't like that dems benefit at the ballot box for creating, supporting, & defending it.
Is that why you are against SS.?
You are at war on this forum every day, against fellow Americans, driven by hate and labeling. You have no interest in peace nor do you posses the emotions requited to appreciate it. You are hate incarnate. This thread is not for you.
You're repeating your hatefulness. Please stop.
You're posting on my thread. Don't want my response, stop posting on my threads. We know, you hate republicans, go tell it to someone that wants to hear it. On this thread, it's off topic.
I don't hate anyone. Why would you say such a horrible thing?
NO!
You are at war on this forum every day, against fellow Americans, driven by hate and labeling. You have no interest in peace nor do you posses the emotions requited to appreciate it. You are hate incarnate. This thread is not for you.
I think you have lost all sense of reality. I am not being hateful. YOU are.
So stop it, please.
Are you lonely? Get off my thread.
Oh geez. That completely changes my mental picture of this person. Much more disturbing now.
Just ignore him, he wants you to respond. I doubt anyone takes him that seriously anymore after the cone of shame incident anyways.
Good call. *She. VQ is a female.
You don't think it's my anti republican partisanship they don't like? You think it's the "cone of shame incident"?
LMFAO!
How would you know my gender? Is that just your fantasies?
NO! Please refrain from the hatefulness!
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You've found a purpose today, Zen.
Beats railing at trolls, yes?
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It was the Germans that were starved to death in camps after the war ended.
My mistake. The memory doesn't function too well lately.
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Taking what was said out of context in order to justify slamming people with your ignorance. SOP around here.
http://www.pbs.org/behindcloseddoors/in-depth/stalins-spies.html
Just a taste. Go to the library, I'm sure you can find it.
Zen often corrects me on points of order.
It's what he does, Richard. Bit like a mother hen, or cocky rooster.
The main thing is, he's refocussed.
Bonus.
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although there was no starvation in the domestic camps, everyone knows about the Japanese internment camps. It's a friendlier way of saying 'concentration camp'.
Then there are prison camps for POWs, unfriendly refugee camps, these can all be called concentration camps just the same and the USSR , the UK, the US, all had these types of camps. Disease, starvation, slaughter, the list goes on. The killing of the Jews was a horrific and intentional act and this is not up for debate. What you imply and where you are wrong is in assuming the majority of WWII deaths were a result of Jewish extermination. There were roughly 70 million deaths as a result of that war. Staggering, isn't it.
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Unadulterated bullshit masquerading as fact. Why don't all of you Marxist lovers talk about how many people communism has killed. Makes the nazis look like amatures.
Read the post, Orwell.
Russians were communists then, remember?
Sigh.........
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Bottomed out, ZenDude?