Forum Post: Ron P: “Blame The Fed For The Financial Crisis”
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 21, 2011, 4:13 p.m. EST by surplusunit
(26)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The Federal Reserve has caused every single boom and bust that has occurred in this country since the bank’s creation in 1913. It pumps new money into the financial system to lower interest rates and spur the economy. Adding new money increases the supply of money, making the price of money over time—the interest rate—lower than the market would make it. These lower interest rates affect the allocation of resources, causing capital to be malinvested throughout the economy. So certain projects and ventures that appear profitable when funded at artificially low interest rates are not in fact the best use of those resources.
Eventually, the economic boom created by the Fed’s actions is found to be unsustainable, and the bust ensues as this malinvested capital manifests itself in a surplus of capital goods, inventory overhangs, etc. Until these misdirected resources are put to a more productive use—the uses the free market actually desires—the economy stagnates.
Read The Rest At
http://www.moneytrendsresearch.com/ron-paul-blame-the-fed-for-the-financial-crisis/
who caused the booms and busts that happened (frequently and devastatingly) before the creation of the Fed? if the Fed goes away, will those same forces come back? why not, if not?
we had a relatively undeveloped economy before the Fed and booms and busts were determined by famines credit contractions of multiple rothschild owned banks for instance in the 1800's. we've had a form of central banking since the early 1800's, it was simply the elite owned banks that would work in unison to manipulate the expansion and contraction of money.
the same banks are now consolidated as the Fed, and if it were abolished, there would much less bubbles, and interest rates and the true supply and demand of money would be determined by the market. the boom bust would be determined by a country's capital inflows or overall profits. the motive for production and investing would be back instead of consumption and spending. people have no incentive to save when interest rates are artificially low, and are forced to speculate instead.
yeah... i kind of tend to think that there will still be booms and busts without a central bank. there always have been. not sure what you mean by "undeveloped" -- we were in a globalized economy, had railroads and telegraphs and factories.
the idea that the banks in this country are "consolidated as the Fed" doesn't really make sense, except in the very local sense that the Fed is a partnership between the government and private banks -- banks exist and compete with each other and aren't consolidated in general, right?
i tend to think that "regulation by pure market forces" will get a hell of a lot uglier a hell of a lot quicker than many folks seem to think.
pre-creation of the Fed, the American economy was not a super pleasant one for most folks.
joerauh wins. The Fed has been corrupted by the wealthy interests, but it wasn't necessarily a bad idea. It really needs to be given goals that serve the people and define it's limitations. It should be a branch of the Consumer Protection Agency.
don't you know how humanity has always had a struggle throughout history with central banks, and private control of the money supply.
do you really think a private bank issuing money as debt and then charging interest on it that does not yet exist and then to intervene in the free market is not a bad idea??
please learn about history of central banks and the Fed before you open your mouth again.
here this might help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ
sorry, this just doesn't make sense.
a) the fed is not really a private bank
b) the money it issues isn't really debt in any meaningful sense
c) what interest?
a) The Fed has private shareholders
b) The money it issues is debt because it must be paid back
c) there may not be a high interest rate now but throughout most of its history there was
sorry, you don't make much sense.
i recommend you click the link i sent you so you don't say any more dumb things
your tone's not very cordial.
but in the interests of open discussion...
a) having some private "shareholders" doesn't make it private in the same sense as other corporations. for instance, it's a non-profit, and the net income of each bank is returned to the treasury.
b) the paper currency issued by the fed is backed by the faith and credit of the united states, true. but it doesn't need to be "paid back" in any strong sense. it can't be redeemed. it just circulates.
c) when, and what interest rate do you mean? the federal discount window rate? the LIBOR? and what do you consider high?
are you kidding me dude? where are you getting this stuff?
The Fed is a for-profit private bank. it charges interest on money that it prints out of thin air. the money or credit rather is lent and therefore must be paid back. in order for the interest to be paid, more debt has to be taken out in order pay it. yes it circulates for a while but it slowly must be paid back.
when the Fed buys government bonds, the government is effectively being loaned money at interest. why does it need to do this when they can create their own money?
and any interest rate is too high when it is being originated. Sound money should never be loaned into existence with interest, simply issued as money.
why do you think all money is debt now? look at your bills, they are DEBT. not money. it has to be paid back with interest. ask yourself who is collecting the interest.
so you're talking about the interest that the Treasury pays to the Fed on the T-bills that the fed holds? all of the Fed's profits get paid back to the Treasury, so except for the 6% dividend that gets paid to the member banks on their deposits, there's no "interest" taken out of the system. I know it's confusing, but really, you're not being clear on this. Do you realize that the Fed is non-profit? And that the profits all go back to the Treasury?
so you're saying that the government sells treasuries for fun? is that why we are 15 trillion in debt? because the gov sells treasuries to the Fed and then gets all the money back later except for 6% that goes to the member banks? do you really think the Fed is a Non profit?!? LMFAO!!!! oh my god dude you made my day!! HAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Watch this and shut up http://youtu.be/9g1UtFDytfk?t=25s
The fed's money isn't taxpayer money it doesn't have to get paid back necessarily. There's no shareholders, the President gets to nominate people to the board but needs congresses approval. The chairman is elected by that same board. Though the Fed Resv does give out loans with interest usually it's at a higher rate than private banks. So, a bank that needs a loan usually goes to a fellow bank because the rates are better and because the stock market doesn't like it when a bank goes to the fed for help (it usually means they are in distress).
do you know who is currently buying 70% of treasuries right now?
do you know what quantitative easing is?
do you know who makes it possible for the U.S to deficit finance all of its wars?
do you know who is writing puts on the very government debt it is financing?
It's so much uglier than you realize, the international banking cabal is controlled by the same people with the same goal. Consolidate wealth at the top using the fractional banking debt money system. In the U.S. it's run by the FED. This has been going on ever since feudal times when kings consolidated wealth at the point of a sword. Now they get you to volunteer because they've been programming you since birth that America is the best country on earth because we have a free democracy. It's all a scam.
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From the beginning when our country was formed we face many challenges and many opposing views
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As of January 2012 we the people
We will not take the abuse anymore and neither should they walk around with there heads in the sand.
We will begin the process of phase one
Your petition will go to congress, informing them you support The “TOCS FAE” Doctrine and so should they, by making preparations for receiving and forwarding income Tax mail. Your petition will also go to the top corporations letting them know of our intentions and they too should support and act by sending their taxes directly to congress. They should also be informed if our demands are not met protests will be under way the likes they have never seen.
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Step1) Send your TAXES to a trusted congressman or congresswoman which maybe hard to find in your state. Make a Petition with your neighbors. Phone, email, fax your congress your list and intentions. Prepare your taxes, made out to the I.R.S check and envelope, and a stamp. Fit it in inside of a bigger envelope, onto which you should write congress address, preferably your state congress.
Example
Washington, DC 203 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515 Phone Number: (202) 225-2831 Have congress unwrap the envelopes, state you want your taxes to be mailed to the I.R.S
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If you are interested in expressing this message to Occupy General Assembly you should present the "TOCFAE" Doctrine in David Ferola's name, and claim you are him, for solidarity purpose.
That includes woman and children
"i've read them all and none seem twisted to me. what's really twisted is how you take his ideas and complete spew your ignorant vomit all over them."
there is nothing ignorant about the facts and the truth which is what ron paul is about aside from the things everyone likes to focus on. read his frigging actual platform. its pro corporate powers and greed. "Ron Paul is pro life, yet he lets the states decides to allow it or not."
again, not the way to approach the problem.
"He wants a sound money system again." or in other words a gold standard, which is impossible, since there is not enough gold in the world by four orders of magnitude. crackpotted insane ignorant epic fail. "
"I know that a broke fuck like you would love to have your healthcare paid for you by someone else. I know you love to blame insurance companies for everything, while you never understood how government overregulation, compliance, price controls, etc, make healthcare very expensive."
i understand far better than you do. Insurance companies aer social parasites and are the problem.
"if you went to the emergency room for a bump on your head now, the doctors would have to dress up a $15000 bill for you because the doctors are forced to deal with so much compliance. but that's not because of the government right? you probably love obamacare don't you"
nope, against obamacare. but you just keep searching for easy ad homs that have nothing to do with me.
"yes he wants a pro american defense, because pro american offense is not very good for the world is it?" right. its bad for the world and bad for the USA. " we are simply deficit financing wars and destroying nations and innocent lives for oil and drugs. we are making nothing but enemies when we can just protect ourselves here with our 2 million nuclear weapons and most advanced defense systems in the world. is there something wrong with that???" sounds great, until we add back in the "pro american" which means we put americas interests above the rest of the world.
"what is wrong with natural gas vehicles if they help us decrease our dependence on foreign oil ?" just a means to the end of denying all alectric to keep us as consumerist crackhead addicts on a fuel. " new markets? new jobs? why is that wrong? you're smokin to much crack again" nope, thats you, i don't smoke crack,.. its clear that you do.
"eliminating income and capital gains taxes" this is so that we don't tax production. do you know anything about economics?"
yeah, i studied it. did you? elminating capital gains taxes is a boon tothe rich and a way of redistributing the wealth again to the rich.
" taxing production and investment doesn't help unemployment to go down much does it?" irrelevant.
"the bottom line is you have a very inferior understanding of the economic world and you have not been taking your meds." the bottom line is i have truth and knowledge and all you have is third rate ad homs. i don't take meds.
"please do something else with your life besides spending your whole day on these forums.. you need to take breaks every now and then lol"
fuck you.
"please quit calling everyone a troll who has different/more intelligent ideas than you." i am not calling people trolls for having different ideas from me. i am callin gpeople trolls because they are trolls; TROLL.
"oh yeah and take your meds" go find a troll chat and beg them to help you with your pathetic ad homs.
You've hit it on the nose. Here's more:
http://www.moneytrendsresearch.com/capitalism-and-wall-st-not-the-problem-end-the-fed-occupy-d-c/#more-1828
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/10/ron-paul-on-meet-press.html
http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/10/bernanke-ive-abandoned-dual-mandate.html?showComment=1319477701494#c3718463326236488353
ron paul was key advisor for both senior Bush and president Bush Junior do we need that again another mess this country will not outlive financilly so thats 8 years ron paul worked wth pres bush junior and look where e r and please pres Obama couldnt have gotten us in this mess in such a short time see how long it takes trying to fix it well it took twice as long to make it
your a troll.
“Today, this country is in the middle of a recession for a lot of people. Michigan knows about it. Poor people know about it. The middle class knows about it. Wall Street doesn’t know about it. Washington, D.C., doesn’t know about it. But it’s because of the monetary system and the excessive spending. As long as we live beyond our means we are destined to live beneath our means.” Ron Paul
I say Yes
"wall st doesn't know about it" that's why the banks are NOT cutting tens of thousands of jobs worldwide right?
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/i7w8o/what_is_wrong_with_ron_paul/c21lkob
What is with this Ron Paul commercial
That's it, I'm callin' Ross Perot
mw3 is tha best gam evur ne1 else who sayz diff is jus full of shit. iv been plyin black ops sinc last year and ik its will always b bettr than ny BF3 gam espeshially this 1. if u think bf3 is better thin mw3 call me bich ill fight u 907-561-8166
btw im not sum littl kid im 15 so hmu
mw3 is tha best gam evur ne1 else who sayz diff is jus full of shit. iv been plyin black ops sinc last year and ik its will always b bettr than ny BF3 gam espeshially this 1. if u think bf3 is better thin mw3 call me bich ill fight u 907-561-8166
btw im not sum littl kid im 15 so hmu
See some REASONED discussion with links to substantiating facts at http://occupywallst.org/forum/taxpayersbeware-holy-bailout-federal-reserve-now-b/#comment-196011
Private central banks are the problem..Who ever controls money supply controls government. This is now a global problem.
People don't seem to understand that Ron Paul wants to eliminate federal gov't interference in our lives by shrinking it drastically and giving the power back to the States to decide their own laws without federal gov't interference. He is a Constitutionalist through and through, back to the letter and spirit of the original document. End the Fed, end income tax, back to sound debt-free money, States rights, you keep your money and be responsible for your own life, not looking to gov't to take care of you cradle to grave.
amen
Couldn't agree more.
ron paul president bush seniors key advisors ron paul preident bush juniors key advisors look at our country Obama didnt have enough time to create such a mess u see how bad it is and how deep it is do u realize how long it took to make the mess we r in and now it will take twice as long to get us out of this mess and such as ron paul is a republican we have moved inch by inch thanks to men like ron paul but he does not suffer just uses young people like on this site to help his campaign selfishness no reguard for what the people of ows stands for as long as he can find a crowd to suck up some votes
A privately owned money supply causes economic disparity? You don't say...
Agreed - the Feds have always tried to influence the markets.
Ron Paul is an isolationist extremist and a racist, and he does not offer leadership here outside of paranoid delusions and mandates to deal with immigration which could never be enforced. We need real immigration reform, fascism is not the kind of immigration reform that we need.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/energy/
Ron paul is a corporate shill and a tool for "free market capitalism" in fact he stands for many things that OWS absolutely opposes, he believes that we have a free market system and that it comes up with solutions. Thats nonsense. We have a caste war system which has kept the solutions off the table, and thats all that he does here; keep the solutions off the table while offering us free market capitalism as a nonsensical non solution.
"In fact, much of the “pain at the pump” Americans are now feeling is due to federal policies designed by environmental alarmists " It is not being an alarmist to point out the fact of ecological meltdown due to useing fossil fuels. Hes calling us NAMES in order to invalidate us, when hes the ignorant corporate shill. "to punish traditional energy production – like oil, coal, and natural gas" all of which should have been simply ended 50 years ago when they became obsolete, or at least 40 years ago when we KNEW from HARD SCIENCE that needed to be done. " – in hopes of making energy sources they favor more “economical.” The absolute lie here is stunning. the reverse is whats going on. he and other evil pricks are keeping far more economically viable solutions off thetable by waging an information war and lying to the public about what is and is not viable and true and real about energy.
"* Eliminate the ineffective EPA. Polluters should answer directly to property owners in court for the damages they create – not to Washington."
On THIS point alone, ron paul is clearly a mad man. How are we going to hold them accountable the laws his corproate cronies hav made make it almost impossible for us to hold them accountable, now he wants to remove the EPA?
He is a stupid evil mad man, period.
"* Repeal the federal tax on gasoline. Eliminating the federal gas tax would result in an 18 cents savings per gallon for American consumers." and in essence amounts to subsidizing gas, when we should be taxing the heck out of it in order to push to get off of it.
"It’s time for a President that recognizes the free market’s power and innovative spirit by unleashing its full potential to produce affordable, " all of his options listed and his total energy strategy are for continued consumerist energy- not renewable green cheap energy- hes keeping us trapped in expensive energy.
"environmentally sound," there is nothing environmentally sound about any of this, in fact ron paul is a walkingecological disaster. " and reliable energy." and these consumerist forms of energy must deplete and thus are not reliable, in fact they must run out- so sooner or later we MUST go to renewable forms of energy.
EVERY detail of this presentation is WRONG and EVIL shilling FOR corporations.
he has never said what we live in is free market capitalism.....he has said we have never had it and that is why we have this economic disaster. Lets remember the dude PREDICTED this economic collapse almost to a T. EVIL? last time i checked he is against the most evil things in our society, police state, military industrial complex, the war on drugs.
but hes for corporate power, for big oil, for big coal, for a "free" market system, denies global warming, and thinks its okay to have the state own and regulate womens reproductive systems. Hes racist, hes a shill for corporate powers, and his assorted ideas are all pro the rich- his tax schemes are dynamically regressive- ron paul is an ENEMY of the 99 percent. So you are either a dupe pwn promoting an enemy of the 99 percent or you are an evil liar promoting a patent enemy of the 99 percent.
evil? he accepts global warming he just isnt sure that the epa can fix it. and he asks how much it would cost. He is not racist...lets remember he wants to end the prison industrial complex and the war on drugs because they target minority communities. His tax schemes will most likely help create jobs because it frees up capital. He is anti crony capitalism. Cant see why a big business would want him in charge if they can't bribe politicians.
he most certainly is a racist. his tax schemes won't create jobs they will destroy the economy period. free-ing up capital for the rich does not create jobs. and denial of global warming is inexcusable. How much would it cost to fix it? about one million dollars for every dollar we spend on gas or oil, to scrub the atmosphere, which is why we can't afford to do anything other than get ourselves over to a stable energy economy which will be able to support that.
geothermal energy being orders of magnitude cheaper, its obvious to see that ron paul is not interested in whats cheaper, but whats good for corporations and the rich.
if it is so much cheaper why hasnt a wealthy person invested in it? wouldnt they stand to make massive amounts of money if they did? Not a racist btw you can ask the NAACP in Texas who agrees. They know his ability to write executive orders to defund and end the prison industrial complex and war on drugs are what is needed to begin to help minority communities who have been oppressed by govt.
because the entire industry of coal, the entire industry of oil, the entire industry of propane, the entire industry and consumer experience itself is at stake here. Being so cheap, its hardly proffitable unless you are allowed some ginormously rigged mark up.
the oligarchs understand simply that substances that must be carried are easier to control, regulate and make bank on than mere electrons which can be pipelined into circuitry.
you miss the obvious. geothermal is prevented because it ends the age of fossil fuels; period.
its being prevented by even intentionally doing it wrong and make believing that moronic fracking has anything to do with geothermal. lol.
i agree with most of all that... defeund the prison industrial complex...refund public education with all that money...
and i am not a dupe my friend...i read economics all the time...and that pesky old constitution....written by a genius named James Madison.
Hmmmm....is the current system working for you? How could what he is offering be worse than a system that has completed bankrupted the entire planet? Are you against the Constitution?
did you bother to READ what i posted? NO? obviously not. I'm not against the constitution, i am against insane frigging wingnuts who put ideology ahead of science destroying our planet and killing off all life as we know it by promoting fossil fuels and denying global warming. i am against tax breaks for the rich. i am against racism. No the current system is not working for me, thats why i have fought for 20 years against it. Ron paul is merely a part of that system, not a cure.
you've got a lot of complaints, how do we fix it? You know, it's weird, I would think that we really are on the same side. I don't have a fight with you, friend. I want to put it right as well as you do. I don't know if Ron Paul is the solution, I just think cutting back on the federal gov't to what is true in the Constitution is a good idea. And ending the FED.
so what's your solution?
all third party. we start fresh and remove all the dems and all the republicans. take out the garbage.
Idealistic, but I would support it. I like the idea of a national convention where we take it all back.
article 5, all the way.
Well then, you see, we're not so far apart. But we got to end the FED and fractional reserve banking and the debt money system, it's the head of the beast, it serves the 1%, and impoverishes the rest of us.
agreed. but just because ron paul is into those things does not excuse the other crazy stuff. i do like him in many ways. its tuff to be here defending ows against co-opting. i have to overstate my case a little. its harsh. have some sympathy for the truths advocate. I don't want to knock ron whom i love...i just can't let the movement get co-opted. not by anyone.
Understood. The beauty of the movement is that is undefined and that drives the pundits crazy. Keep it up!
who are you voting for
the truth.
ok but who you voting for? of the candidates there are, who will help our country the most
whomever the occupy party ends up picking, i will vote for. until then there are no sane choices. I will not vote for the lesser of evils. I'd rather see civilization hurt now under a republican than fall because i voted in obama and he managed to keep the pain tolerable just long enough to cook us.
Every other candidate is bought and paid for by Wall Street banks so you really don't have a choice.
our choice is being created now. get on the political committee. tell me which office you are prepared to RUN for and STFU about YOUR political affiliations, we don't want to know it scares us.
ron paul is hard blocked. grok it. ?
STFU about ron paul. please. thank u.
from now on we can talk about you know; maybe the ideas MINUS the credits. I don't mind you stepping forward to name yourself as a presidential candidate. At least you and i are talking live. Ron paul is making fatal errors and would never listen to or even hear me.
if you want to speak to the collective; i represent it. we are not interested in your candidate because hes a mad genius. MAD, MAD.. MAD.... Genius.
WTF can you not get about that?
stop representing other people long enough to start representing yourself.
ALL the trash GOES OUT.
no more dems. no more republicans. and none of the above to any of the twenty obvious oblieetes the matrix of oligarchs has littered the field with. NO NO NO. the answer is SCIENCE and TRUTH. not whackjob ideologues who will NEVER LISTEN.
the truth is that anytime the issuance of money came from private bankers at interest, it always led to dissatisfaction, cronyism, and massive inequality. The truth is also that whenever the government does more than their constitutional function and intervenes and messes up the markets, it always leads to dissatisfaction, unjust prices, beurocracy, and cronyism.
Ron Paul is the only one proposing anything to change these institutions.
If you don't realize these truths then I don't think you should open your mouth until you do your homework. oh and don't forget your meds.
of course i do realize that ron paul has some very good ideas. if you can't recognize the problem that hes also got some very obviously twisted and dead wrong ideas, then i don't think you should open your mouth until you do your homework.
your ad hom- back atcha.
you have no argument. you know i am right. otherwise you wouldn't insult me.
i honestly don't know what ideas of his that are 'twisted' and that's why i keep telling you to take your meds.
you clearly didn't bother to read the long list of things i posted just below this line, and, are the one who needs to take their meds. i don't have meds.
cheap ad homs aside, you not knowing whats twisted can only be at this point due to your failure to read. lazy ass troll.
i've read them all and none seem twisted to me. what's really twisted is how you take his ideas and complete spew your ignorant vomit all over them.
Ron Paul is pro life, yet he lets the states decides to allow it or not.
He wants a sound money system again. something like the bretton woods agreement that was revoked in 1971. please see the money supply and government debt levels since bretton woods was removed.
I know that a broke fuck like you would love to have your healthcare paid for you by someone else. I know you love to blame insurance companies for everything, while you never understood how government overregulation, compliance, price controls, etc, make healthcare very expensive. if you went to the emergency room for a bump on your head now, the doctors would have to dress up a $15000 bill for you because the doctors are forced to deal with so much compliance. but that's not because of the government right? you probably love obamacare don't you
yes he wants a pro american defense, because pro american offense is not very good for the world is it? we are simply deficit financing wars and destroying nations and innocent lives for oil and drugs. we are making nothing but enemies when we can just protect ourselves here with our 2 million nuclear weapons and most advanced defense systems in the world. is there something wrong with that???
what is wrong with natural gas vehicles if they help us decrease our dependence on foreign oil ? new markets? new jobs? why is that wrong? you're smokin to much crack again
"eliminating income and capital gains taxes" this is so that we don't tax production. do you know anything about economics? taxing production and investment doesn't help unemployment to go down much does it?
the bottom line is you have a very inferior understanding of the economic world and you have not been taking your meds.
please do something else with your life besides spending your whole day on these forums.. you need to take breaks every now and then lol
please quit calling everyone a troll who has different/more intelligent ideas than you.
oh yeah and take your meds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GuqZfaj34nc
https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=191332297579431&set=a.106027612776567.3471.100001079853087&type=1&theater
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/abortion/ Ron paul is a "pro life" anti woman and anti choice wingnut, who thinks we should control womens bodies in order to end abortion. While i agree with the general principle of ending abortion, that should be done via social economic justice, not making laws that make a womans womb the property of the state.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/health-care/
This is not a right remedy, its a clown circus. While his list of things to do is mostly good, whats missing is obvious. No mention of universal single payer. No mention of getting corporations out of health care. no mention of getting rid of insurance companies.
Ron paul is pro corporation and pro republicanism and pro privatization. So the actual truth is that Ron pauls total positions on this aside from the ones he lists are an insane and evil batch of evil nonsense, which would seriously harm the American People.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/economy/ "legalizing sound money" means in essence returning to a gold standard. this idiot and others like him simply can not come to terms with the simple fact that there is not enough gold in the world to represent the money, by four order of magnitude. While I certainly agree that our money system is corrupt and broken, it is patently impossible to return to a gold standard- even putting this out there proves gross arrogant ignorance of simple absolute FACTS.
"allowing off shore drilling" which is a formula for death of our oceans, which would cost us a hundred billion dollars when that money would be better spent on geothermal power, in short ron paul is a shill for big oil and corporations, and has no regard for the truth about science facts regarding energy or a meaningful evolutionary energy path for our country.
"natural gas vehicles" again- ignorant, stupid, evil, there is no reason to have natural gas vehicles other than to trap people in natural gasconsumerism. we can go all electric and pay less than a dollar a year for electricity using geothermal and electric vehicles. Instead we have ignorant republicans clinging to assorted FUEL centered systems in order to keep us all addicted to those fuels.
"eliminating income and capital gains taxes" in other words, more tax breaks for the rich, more tax burden on the poor and middle class, more class warfare against the people.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/national-defense/ "A pro American Defense policy" We need a pro HUMAN defense policy, all this pro american stuff is THE PROBLEM.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/taxes/
"capital gains taxes punish you for success" no, they tax success fairly instead of letting the successful off the hook. These taxes are taxes rich people pay, so ron paul is fronting for RICH people- and trying to shift the tax burden onto the poor and middle class- and spinning and lying and propagandizing capital gains tax by calling it a "punishment"
Ron paul on taxes fails to identify the original method used to deal with this and how it is written in the consitution which is that the cognress chall print and coin the money and regulate the value thereof. "Fair" tax is just an oligarch con scam to get their dupes to fight for ending income tax and shifting the tax burden to the poor and middle class.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/
You haven't even read your own cites. You're making it all up as you go along. You can go get back in bed with Geitner now.
three ad homs and no answer to the issues. you have no argument, troll. and having no argument all you have is pathetic personal attacks.
sad. i bet even trolls reject you.
You got me laughing now
$1 a year? citation needed. And you are welcome to buy an electric car if you wish, they are available in many places and I wouldn't dream of taking that right away from you. I will stick to biking for now, so don't ask me to help pay for your carbon machine.
no citatio needed its simple math. geothermal power does not require us to keep drilling wells over and over and waiting for them to go dry. Geothermal power makes a thousand or a million times more energy every second of operation than a comparable size oil or coal mine operation. if we had gone over to geothermal in 1970 when all the worlds actual energy scientists advised it, your energy bill would now be so small it would probably have been socialized as costing more money to send the bills through the mail than the actual cost of the energy. Geothermal power is 4 or 5 orders of magnitude cheaper than fossil fuels. Yeah. Think about that. So Ron paul is fighting tooth an nail, as an enemy of the people, for our continued slavery to consumerist fuel resources, instead of for actual modernization and what would amount to virtually free energy- because he is a corporate shill- a pwn of corporate interests.
So all of the elites and big corporations are throwing all of their support behind Paul, right? Wrong. They and the corporate media hate his guts. Logic fail. They use regulation to get their way, they control the legislation.
ron paul is pro corporation. they don't reciprocate. not so hard to understand. Ron paul is dead wrong on 50 percent of the issues. you like him for what hes right on. but you didn't bother to peel back the cover or look under the hood. whats under the hood is somebody whos willing to put the middle class on the sacrificial block in order to end taxes. whos willing to put women on the sacrificial block in order to end abortions. right there. 50 percent of the population must dutifully consider ron paul an enemy to their personal liberty. Not having a womb myself i must still stand in solidarity with them on the RIGHT side. Stop promoting an evil mad man you don't even know and bother to look at what he stands for - and why hes is actually an enemy of this movement.
I squeal with delight as I read the number of predetermined conclusions you have read into my posts.
i did not read any of that into your posts. i informed you of how it was. spinning are you?
"stop promoting an evil madman"...? I didn't promote him.
your arguments are obviously to his favor, thats support.
Yes! Everything about the Opposition leader is bad! two legs bad! I can say good things about anybody, from Obama to Bush. When someone is mischaracterized (Paul wants to outlaw abortions), I will defend them. It's called objectivism, I try to push my personal biases out of the way so I can see truth and not take people's words for granted.
his own site says he wants to outlaw abortions.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/abortion/ Ron paul is a "pro life" anti woman and anti choice wingnut, who thinks we should control womens bodies in order to end abortion. While i agree with the general principle of ending abortion, that should be done via social economic justice, not making laws that make a womans womb the property of the state.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/health-care/
This is not a right remedy, its a clown circus. While his list of things to do is mostly good, whats missing is obvious. No mention of universal single payer. No mention of getting corporations out of health care. no mention of getting rid of insurance companies.
Ron paul is pro corporation and pro republicanism and pro privatization. So the actual truth is that Ron pauls total positions on this aside from the ones he lists are an insane and evil batch of evil nonsense, which would seriously harm the American People.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/economy/ "legalizing sound money" means in essence returning to a gold standard. this idiot and others like him simply can not come to terms with the simple fact that there is not enough gold in the world to represent the money, by four order of magnitude. While I certainly agree that our money system is corrupt and broken, it is patently impossible to return to a gold standard- even putting this out there proves gross arrogant ignorance of simple absolute FACTS.
"allowing off shore drilling" which is a formula for death of our oceans, which would cost us a hundred billion dollars when that money would be better spent on geothermal power, in short ron paul is a shill for big oil and corporations, and has no regard for the truth about science facts regarding energy or a meaningful evolutionary energy path for our country.
"natural gas vehicles" again- ignorant, stupid, evil, there is no reason to have natural gas vehicles other than to trap people in natural gasconsumerism. we can go all electric and pay less than a dollar a year for electricity using geothermal and electric vehicles. Instead we have ignorant republicans clinging to assorted FUEL centered systems in order to keep us all addicted to those fuels.
"eliminating income and capital gains taxes" in other words, more tax breaks for the rich, more tax burden on the poor and middle class, more class warfare against the people.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/national-defense/ "A pro American Defense policy" We need a pro HUMAN defense policy, all this pro american stuff is THE PROBLEM.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/taxes/
"capital gains taxes punish you for success" no, they tax success fairly instead of letting the successful off the hook. These taxes are taxes rich people pay, so ron paul is fronting for RICH people- and trying to shift the tax burden onto the poor and middle class- and spinning and lying and propagandizing capital gains tax by calling it a "punishment"
Ron paul on taxes fails to identify the original method used to deal with this and how it is written in the consitution which is that the cognress chall print and coin the money and regulate the value thereof. "Fair" tax is just an oligarch con scam to get their dupes to fight for ending income tax and shifting the tax burden to the poor and middle class.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/
Ron Paul is an isolationist extremist and a racist, and he does not offer leadership here outside of paranoid delusions and mandates to deal with immigration which could never be enforced. We need real immigration reform, fascism is not the kind of immigration reform that we need.
This means there will be no further interference in a woman's right to choose, he takes it out of federal jurisdiction and places it back in the hands of each state to decide. He is a Constitutionalist through and through and wants federal gov't out of our private lives. You're still thinking like big brother, like gov't gets to tell us what to do and he is the opposite. He will not support federal legislation that funds abortion, but he will not interfere with State rights.
"...effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and preventing activist judges from interfering with state decisions on life..."