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Forum Post: (TaxpayersBeware) HOLY BAILOUT - Federal Reserve Now Backstopping $75 TRILLION Of Bank Of America's Derivatives Trades

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 21, 2011, 7:42 p.m. EST by MonetizingDiscontent (1257)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

HOLY BAILOUT - Federal Reserve Now Backstopping $75 TRILLION Of Bank Of America's Derivatives Trades

(This move amounts to a direct transfer from derivatives counterparties of Merrill to the taxpayer, via the FDIC)

http://dailybail.com/home/holy-bailout-federal-reserve-now-backstopping-75-trillion-of.html

= = = = = = = =

William Black: Not With A Bang, But A Whimper: Bank Of America’s Derivatives Death Rattle

http://dailybail.com/home/william-black-not-with-a-bang-but-a-whimper-bank-of-americas.html

Bank of America Deathwatch: Moves Risky Derivatives from Holding Company to Taxpayer-Backstopped Depository

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/bank-of-america-deathwatch-moves-risky-derivatives-from-holding-company-to-taxpayer-backstopped-depositors.htm

(BLOOMBERG) - "So this move amounts to a direct transfer from derivatives counterparties of Merrill to the taxpayer, via the FDIC..."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-18/bofa-said-to-split-regulators-over-moving-merrill-derivatives-to-bank-unit.html

The FDIC BETTER be pissed, Can You Believe The Federal Reserve Did That?

= = = = = = = =

OCC's Quarterly Report on Bank Trading and Derivative Activities 2nd Quarter 2011

http://www.occ.gov/topics/capital-markets/financial-markets/trading/derivatives/dq211.pdf

= = = = = = = =

San Francisco Federal Reserve Employee Admits Fed is a Private Corporation ...That Pays Dividends to Shareholders

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr-TCYETQ84&feature=player_embedded

Recently Humboldt State University... http://pacificprogress.us/2011/11/19/11-16-11-federal-reserve-of-san-francisco-comes-to-hsu/# ...was visited by David Lang and Yelena Takhtamanova from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco where they presented some information about the Federal Reserve System.


111 Comments

111 Comments


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[-] 2 points by happybanker (766) 3 years ago

Yes. If you are a taxpayer, you are now on the hook for this junk. BofA moved the derivatives of Merrill under the protection of FDIC

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 2 years ago

Debt forgiveness will eventually become the only solution to all this fraud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdMkAbE6U24

[-] 2 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 2 years ago

Yes, GREAT POINT. you are completely correct, genanmer. Good to meet you

Endgame: When Debt Is Fraud, Debt Forgiveness Is The Last And Only Remedy

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-endgame-when-debt-fraud-debt-forgiveness-last-and-only-remedy

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 2 years ago

Nice to meet you as well.

A simple explanation of how much fraud exists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOzR3UAyXao

And where 'some' of it is going: http://www.businessinsider.com/25-corporations-bigger-tan-countries-2011-6?op=1

[-] 1 points by gestopomilly (497) 2 years ago

not debt forgiveness

The idea of the banks recovering the loss thru selling the property is, at this time, ludicrous

Idea: Banks should be required to ' Suspend' payments and interest accumulation if a person loses their job during an 'economic downturn' until that person finds a comparable paying job or until the national unemployment rate is less than 5%.

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 2 years ago

I was actually referring to money itself.

Money itself is debt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

Money is also scarcity. The monetary system itself will eventually collapse because of these two facts.

It's difficult to explain the full scope at which artificial scarcity exists so I’ll give a brief overview. Money requires scarcity to exist. A resource must be scarce (in short supply) and two parties must refuse to collaborate in their method of trade in order for money to function. If an abundance exists money is no longer necessary. e.g. No one buys air

Money itself is a tool used for differential advantage. Different classes for example have easy access to goods/services based on their purchasing power (money). While those lacking money starve to death, lack adequate education/healthcare, etc. e.g. 3rd world vs 1st world countries

If there exists an abundance of goods/services then artificial scarcity must be created in order for money to continue circulating. For example laws regulate/deregulate much of the market to perpetuate scarcity which benefits a particular company. Laws then require enforcement which results in military, police, and prisons.

Where this gets interesting is when we begin to look at our current levels of technology. We have a society with fewer than 1% of the population farming, less than 8% in manufacturing, and even the service sector is shrinking. Why? Because we’ve had technological advances in mechanization and automation. Imagine what could be done if technology was applied towards social concerns directly without money restricting access.

Right now, we can eliminate most jobs through automation/mechanization and most companies are already in the process. This outsourcing to machines is referred to as technological unemployment. Many jobs that can’t be automated are the product of the current monetary system. They just help push money around.

Again money loses its function if an abundance of anything can be created. It’s the law of supply and demand. So many products today must be designed with life cycles in order to maximize profits. New fashions, versions, upgrades must come out frequently. In turn the most durable, highest quality, environmentally friendly products are always held back. Patents/copyrights are a form of regulation which further restricts innovative new products/technologies. On top of this, competition in the market leads to duplication of the same products which quickly become obsolete. E.g. tons of cell phones are created and discarded as well as copy-cat items (non brand name items)

These market practices lead to a tremendous amount of waste. Ecological systems are destroyed both in obtaining products and discarding them. However this process of ‘cyclical consumption’ is also necessary for money to continue flowing because people need money to access goods/services.

The solution in terms of production is to design the best quality easily upgradeable, most durable, environmentally friendly, long lasting product there is based on the technologies we have today. E.g. If 3d printing became viable, the entire manufacturing industry would suffer.

The solution in terms of organizing society without money as a medium is to create so much abundance through technology that the only ‘work’ necessary could be fulfilled through volunteers. In otherwords, eliminate much of the labor intensive occupations.

To accomplish that, the goals of the Venus Project would need to be met.

http://thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project/aims-a-proposals

During this transition away from the debt-based economy new test cities would need to be developed which distribute all goods to people freely.

This btw, is but a tip of the iceberg as far as transitioning into a resource based economy goes. Please look into http://www.thevenusproject.com/ for more in depth information.

[-] 2 points by gestopomilly (497) 2 years ago

Thank you for the information.

[-] 1 points by reddy2 (256) 2 years ago

The private Federal Reserve is at the root of almost all the problems in the United States today.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 2 years ago

Nice to see so many others out there identifying the cause of the financial crisis.

[-] 1 points by suzencr (102) 3 years ago

You better educate your self about these corporate banksters, they are running the whole show via the Federal Reserve. Above that there's the IMF and World bank, and guess who owns them? Follow the money backward and you begin to see the bigger picture and it ain't pretty. We have to immediately repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and put a firewall between government and private corps. Those really are the top issues.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

well met suzencr. power to the peaceful!

[-] 1 points by DamagedLiberty (20) from Elmwood Park, NJ 3 years ago

Anyone in the mood to start a petition on Change.org asking the media to focus on this issue? Just an idea ;)

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

try not to look at the numbers too closely ROBIN

the figures can go on indefinitely !

'

Accelerated Accounting! BATMAN

how do we break the crooked equations of THE MONEY CHARGER ?

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

lol

well, bringing Back Glass Steagall would stop much of the hemorrhaging. Then we could decide what to do next about the fraud and the rest of the mess. The financial bleeding must be stopped first so we can afford to protest another day, about what to do next about the financial crisis our banks have put us all in.

Good to meet you Matt Holck.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

only if we are to support the current money system

Corrupted Collusion! why hasn't congress put Glass Steagall back in charge?

[-] 1 points by Justice4All (285) 3 years ago

Lord Have Mercy!

[-] 1 points by riverwoman (37) 3 years ago

Criminal collusion! Next rape victim = Social Security. The banks have a long history of trying to gain access to Social Security funding so they can help us invest it wisely. LOL...yeh, right! You can only rob Peter to pay Paul before Peter doesn't have anything more to take. I'm guessing Peter might just get a wee pissed off?

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 2 years ago

Goldman, Citigroup, Madoff, JPMorgan, MERS in Court News

(October 28, 2011) http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-28/goldman-citigroup-madoff-jpmorgan-mers-in-court-news.html

[-] 1 points by riverwoman (37) 2 years ago

Thanks for the link! Crooks in Armani. I'm thinking their golf days are over.

[-] 1 points by TruthWakes (23) from Viroqua, WI 3 years ago

This move by the Fed is as much in your face 'what you gonna do about it?' that it gets. Force the lamestream media to talk about this.

[-] 1 points by enough (589) 3 years ago

It's no surprise. The Federal Reserve works for the big banks and it always has. Main Street America be damned. Like Boss Tweed famously said, "What are you going do about it?"

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

The federal reserve is actually made up of the top big banks. The too big to fails. Which makes me wonder if all these banks are so technically insolvent, why should we think any differently about the federal reserve? Aren't the same shareholders names of these big banks found at the federal reserve?

[-] 1 points by enough (589) 3 years ago

The big TBTF banks and the Federal Reserve are one and the same. The Fed bankrolls the banks with our money to cover shortfalls. It's the ultimate inside job.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 3 years ago

$75 trillion = $187500 per person in US. I wonder how $75 trillion compares to the total number of dollars in the world?

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

I think that is close to the worlds GDP. But this is just one bank. $600 trillion is the figure that I read about

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Yeah and thats just One bank too. Imagine what the total derivative exposure is of the top 5 or 6 banks put together. yikes

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

lol MD I didn't see your post. we really are on the same frequency

[-] 1 points by PeoplehaveDNA (305) 3 years ago

WTF!!!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

I juts want to elaborate on a response below. The simple fact that a rent-a-cop got flustered and said "it's private property" doesn't make it so.

There are a LOT of "public facilities" you can't just walk into. These include the NSA, CIA, Pentagon, Federal Prisons, Military Bases, Sandia Labs (and other DOE sites), the White House, restricted areas of Congress, the Supreme Court, Fort Knox, the vault at the National Archives, etc. In FACT, you probably can't just walk into MOST federal buildings anymore due to security concerns.

Sheesh people, put on your THINKING caps for a minute !

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

You are correct. But doesnt a Private Property sign mean exactly that? Private Property? Did the rent a cop put them there by mistake or something?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Perhaps this newspaper article from 2009 will remind folks the US Government as much as FORCED BofA to buy Merril :

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/06/10/69855/e-mails-show-us-pressured-bofa.html

The Federal Reserve is NOT a private bank. It is comprised a Governing Board that is appointed by the President and approved by Congress (per Title 12 chapter 3 of Federal Law) which sets policy for the private banks that have joined the Federal Reserve System. The Governing Board has the constitutional authority to "coin money and regulate the value thereof" vested by Congress. The Governing Board receives fees from, provides services to, and regulates the private member banks in a fashion similar to the FCC's relationship with private broadcasters.

I'm not saying I'm a fan of this move by BoA/Merrill but we DID force the marriage and we DID just tell the banks to start divesting their proprietary trading arms. If we want to start directing the actions of private companies they way we did/are, we ARE going to suffer some consequences.

P.S. From what I read, it sounds like MAYBE the FDIC will get the decision changed. Let's hope so !

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

Rico what angle are coming at this from? Are you a tea patier? conservative? Are you trying to point out the governments involvement? Do you work for the fed? Or do you just like playing devil's advocate?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

I am an American involved in "civil discourse," a skill we seem to have lost (thanks to FOX, MSNBC, etc). Though my INCLINATION is toward conservatism ne libertarian, I don't have any particular agenda here, and I CAN be convinced to change my position ( see my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-percenter-ready-to-join-if/ ). Convincing me to change my position, however, takes FACTS. No amount of passion will do.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

OK you're a thinker then. I'm happy to argue with you anytime.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Yes they said there should be a way to stop it. I hope its not should've would've. Im not about to hold my breath though, the people are batting a pretty crappy average to date.

Did you watch that video above? (update: video was taken down) Why would the Federal Reserve post private porperty signs if its not true? They wouldn't LIE to the people now would they? The guy in the white in the video? Thats not a police officer. He's the head of security for the Federal Reserve, and he clearlt states that the building is private property.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

LOL ! He's CLEARLY a mail-order-cop just trying to get folks off the property. Note, by the way, that you can't just walk into the White House, certain parts of Congress, any part of the Pentagon, any part of Fort Knox, etc. The simple fact that a building is owned by the public doesn't mean the public can just walk in !

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

He's the head of the Private Federal Reserve's Private Security. I for one have little doubt that he might know before a poor public-police officer would know. He has an office inside and knows the folks and talks to them everyday. Why would he not know better than the police in this instance? You come to know things about who you work for, over time, that most people do not.

Besides, those signs say private property, It doesn't matter who that guy is at all, which by the way is only a diversion from the issue entirely. Those signs say private property (of the federal reserve?) do they or do they not? end of story. And they are all over the place.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Private Property signs means what the words claim though, yes?

I agree with you though of course on this."""The simple fact that a building is owned by the public doesn't mean the public can just walk in"""

(or maybe I need to research that too)

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 3 years ago

So...

How about that 1 QUADRILLION DOLLARS in derivatives, eh? Nice to see people are finally catching up and figuring out that something like B of A's derivative sum, which is more than the WORLD'S GDP of 60 trillion, more than the world's DEBT of 43 trillion, is a weapon of mass financial destruction.

Took long enough.

[-] 2 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

yes, the debt cant be paid back, there's not enough money on the planet. Its impossible. Even if they print it up, its loaned to us WITH INTEREST, making it impossible to ever ever pay back! We'll all be debt slaves, for generations and generations.

They'll just keep finding more and more, never disclosing everything thats actually there. We'll pay through austerity with a bailout or or more taxes, then? They will find MORE! Over and Over again, and then they will probably take us to war, real war, and it would make a great smokescreen to divert attention from the Biggest Transfer of wealth in the history of mankind.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

<Sigh> So MUCH emotion and so FEW facts.

Facts are available at http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/releases/statisticsdata.htm Some of the numbers in their data collection ARE a bit scary, but at least they have the benefit of being based on fact. They CLEARLY aren't hiding any bad news... just read the report at http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/releases/mortoutstand/current.htm and note the $5 trillion in Fannie/Freddie loans that show up on the books in 2010 Q3 under "Federal and Related Agencies" ! When browsing this site, don't ignore all the OTHER sources of data available via the menu at the left of the page. There's some FASCINATING stuff.

Another great site is http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/nav/jsf/pages/searchresults.xhtml?refresh=t It takes a while to learn how to use this site, but there's a WEALTH of information regarding how we're doing as a nation. A teaser: 20% of us own our homes free-and-clear and 84.5% of us have health insurance!

I think EVERYONE will feel a bit better armed with some facts. The sky may have lowered a bit, but it's NOT falling just yet ! We will get through this.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

Who believes the official stats issued by the government? Who believes that we are in a recovery? This government cries wolf on a daily basis. I'm no fool, I quit looking for the wolf a long time ago.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

So everyone doctors the numbers, yet somehow you and MonetizingDiscontent have access to the undoctored truth. Where did you find these "truths" ?

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

I'm not suggesting there is a completely accurate set of stats. I just know of one source that is not correct and that is the government.

maybe shadowstats.com is more precise.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Shadowstats, Impeccable. I like ZeroHedge a lot as well.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

MD, what do you think about the Glass-Steagall act? Less pages than Dodd-Frank at least but I don't know if this is the solution to our problem.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

MD, what do you think about the Glass-Steagall act? Less pages than Dodd-Frank at least but I don't know if this is the solution to our problem.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Glass Steagall should be brought back. It is what kept the bankers in their box. They wont do it though because if the big banks had those kinds or restrictions on them today, there would be no disguising their insolvency, and they would probably be bored to death. Speculative gambling and selling bundled debt-bombs are so much more exiting.

Its a big part of the solution. The repeal of Glass Steagall did away with position-limits. Glass Steagall said there is an inherent conflict of interest between the commercial banking side (which is the lending side) and the investment banking side. (which is taking an ownership position) And that we have to end this conflict of interest by separating these two entities. He said that you can have investment banks, and you can have commercial banks, but they have to be separate. Wise words.

It would stop the bleeding to reinstate Glass Steagall. Then we could get on with an actual recovery. It would be very painful, but we would come out of this financial crisis a whole lot stronger for it. The 'Too Big To Saves' would have to be broken up in an orderly fashion. This would allow the cream to rise to the top, so to speak. There would be competition again.

There's lots more to know, and he is enlightening to read about. A lot of things happening in the banking industry today begins to make sense as you come to understand what he is saying.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

There's a fundamental contradiction here. Where outside the "corrupt" banking system would ANYONE be getting data regarding the banking system ?

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Max Keiser is a fun way to learn economics. http://maxkeiser.com/about/ He is hilariously but informatively entertaining. (Although I disagree with his views on man-made global warming)

He's the inventor of virtual specialist technology / prediction markets,

http://www.google.com/patents?id=n2sXAAAAEBAJ&dq=timothy+keiser

Hollywood Stock Exchange: http://www.hsx.com/

Karmabanque: http://www.karmabanque.com/

and Pirate MyFilm (PMF): http://www.piratemyfilm.com/

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

they wouldn't regarding banks but there's other data such as the unemployment rate, inflation rate that the government produces with fuzzy math. The fed is much more secretive with there numbers. They speak in code such as "quantitative easing" which means money printing, which means inflation.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

They fudge the numbers every time don't they. Its amazing people allow them any credibility at all.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

totally illegitimate

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

""I think EVERYONE will feel a bit better armed with some facts""

agreed. Isn't that what we're doing here? and I'm very calm I assure you, thanks.

Thank you for the links Rico, I appreciate your input.

And heads up... They hide the debt.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Remember that not ALL debt is has gone bad. In the US, it's primarily mortgage debt, and the foreclosures are slowing down.

A pretty complete picture of derivative exposure can be found at http://www.occ.gov/topics/capital-markets/financial-markets/trading/derivatives/dq211.pdf

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

They hide the debt. Every time the banks over seas have gotten bailed out, they find more debt. They get bailed out again. Then they find more debt....That is starting to happen here now, in America.

We bail them out. Then they find more. And they get bailed out... I see a pattern developing here. Greece is a great example of what I'm talking about. The debt is always hidden, never fully disclosed.

Which is fraud.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

OK then, you have my permission to feel hopeless and resigned.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

I don't. But thank you again.

H.R. 2768 (Cancelation of Public Debt to Federal Reserve)

H.R. 1496 (Federal Reserve Transparancy Act)

H.R. 1095 (Freedom to Bank Act)

H.R. 1094 (Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act)

H.R. 459 (Federal Reserve Transparancy)

S 202 (Senate Federal Reserve Transpanancy Act)

H.R. 1098 (Free Competition in Currency Act)
[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Ah, so you are finally revealed to be one of Ron Paul's faithful followers. That makes sense. While I like him personally, in MY OPINION his policies are naive, and we're lucky nobody actually listens to him.

As for HR 2768, the Treasury Department issued Treasuries to borrow the money that WE THE PEOPLE spend above and beyond our revenues. The Fed is only a BUYER of those Treasuries, and it's not the largest by far. What Ron Paul is arguing for is FORGIVENESS of US DEBT by fiat. If that happens, nothing but turmoil will ensue.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

""Ah, so you are finally revealed to be one of Ron Lawl's faithful followers""

Don't tell me you are serious, what free minded individual could ever pledge their faith to any one person, or to any One political party?

Alan Grayson: "Which Foreigners Got the Fed's $500,000,000,000?" Bernanke: "I Don't Know."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NYBTkE1yQ

He's a democrat Rico. I like him too. Very Much. I for one acknowledge wisdom where I find it. Regardless if they are a funny color or not.

Not to do so would be like restricting yourself to One hemisphere of your brain. I kind of prefer the full picture. Im not held captive by any COLOR. I don't approach politics from a My Team Vs Your Team perspective.

They are two wings of the same predatory bird, working for the banks. You're kind of entertaining Rico, and a lot of fun. A little emotional, but all in all, a Good Joe. Cheers, and I really do wish you well.

[-] 1 points by larocks (414) from Lexington, KY 3 years ago

omg. if this is true and it passes then game over man. game over.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Dude, cheer up ! It's not THAT bad, in fact, things are stabilizing. Just thank GOD we're the world's reserve currency and that we have a Federal Reserve !

[-] 1 points by larocks (414) from Lexington, KY 3 years ago

hate to brreak it to you but the fed is what got us here. the answer they have is to print more money. americans money. tax money. our money. and if u have been reading alot about economics lately you'd c that BRICS and other countries met without the US to think of a different type of currency other than the dollar as the world currency. if this gets approved which im sure it will then inflation will run rampant and the dollar will crash. if the dollar crashes commodities will really be to costly for the poor and the middle class. u think its bad now wait till u see 25 - 30 dollar a loaf of bread. its coming if things like this are allowed to keep happening.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

RICO charges are what we need Rico. And things are not stabilizing. Where are those 'green-shoots'? They said the recession was over in 2009.

And the fact that we are the worlds reserve currency is what is so alarming. Everyone's currency is tied to the dollar. This does not look good at all for any government heavily exposed to the dollar.

They are pissing the value of the dollar away everyday. And more debt is hidden in those CDS's and 'DarkPools' and other derivatives. Those things are very complicated, and more debt is always being found.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Debt is not in and of itself a bad thing. It's how we redistribute wealth from those who have it to those that need it. BAD DEBT is the problem, and we DO have a lot of it floating around the system, just not as MUCH as you suggest (i.e. when you get alarmed over JPMorgan having $90 trillion in derivatives in a later comment). Most of the bad debt is associated with mortgages, so let's take a look at them.

Referencing http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/releases/mortoutstand/current.htm , the total outstanding mortgage debt is $13.6 trillion, down from a peak of $14.6 trillion in 2008. SOME of this debt reduction is due to people retiring debt at a record rate, and SOME of it is due to foreclosure.

Referencing http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/historic/files/histtab14a.xls (an Excel spreadsheet), we see that homeownership peaked at 69% in the period between 2004 and 2006 while the current level is at 66%, the same level seen in 1998 and 1980. There was a dip in the intervening years to around 64%.

From the above data, we have shed about 3% of mortgages since 2008 and, depending on how much worse you think things will get, could realistically see another 2% coming. That's 2% of the 2011 outstanding mortgage balance of $13.6 trillion or $272 billion.

We know that $272 billion is only the DEBT that's at risk. The total economic impact of that debt going bad has to include the extent to which it is leveraged. At a 20% reserve requirement, the factor would be 5:1, but the Fed HAS made money very cheap so let's use 20:1 and predict that the $272 billion in bad debt could cause a collapse of $5.4 trillion in leveraged assets. Thus, we COULD see around $5.4 trillion FEWER dollars on the books than we have today if an additional $272 billion worth of mortgages go bad.

I conclude we have about $5.4 trillion in DEFLATIONARY risk out there.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

""Debt is not in and of itself a bad thing. It's how we redistribute wealth from those who have it to those that need it.""

Did the Federal Reserve mention to congress it was sending 16 Trillion to foreign banks? No. That's because its tempting to hide the figures. You know, like some people do tax time?

More debt is hidden and will be found in those derivatives. Its not fully disclosed. I admire your optimism, that they are telling the truth, but they are not. And besides, US debt is currently $3.5 trillion higher than where it would be had America's banks not received a rescue.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/visualizing-true-cost-first-bank-bailout-35-trillion-and-rising-over-1-trillion-every-year

We are NOT recovering as you claim in earlier comments. I think you only discredit yourself when you say things like that.

""Thus, we COULD see around $5.4 trillion FEWER dollars on the books than we have today if an additional $272 billion worth of mortgages go bad.""

Now adjust for ever-expanding wars. Now adjust for more bailouts. Now adjust for the next years worth of spending bills.

US debt will officially surpass GDP on Halloween 2011. Adjust for that.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/ironic-scariest-chart-ever-redux-america-will-surpass-100-debt-gdp-helloween

While all the focus has been on the Eurozone debt crisis recently, the US is suffering a stealth debt crisis of its own which is being ignored - for the moment. As is the burgeoning debt crisis in China.

The US fiscal position is appalling with a $1.6 trillion deficit projected for fiscal 2012 alone. For those who have lost count, the US national debt has risen to over $14.8 trillion. The latest updated projections reveal that the US will reach a 100 percent debt to GDP ratio by Halloween.

Gold’s recent weakness has coincided with a period of dollar strength but with trade and budget account deficits as far as the eye can see, this dollar strength is likely to be brief.

Indeed, the dollar’s recent strength is due to the fact that while the dollar’s fundamentals are very poor – its competing fiat currencies such as sterling and the euro have similar if not worse outlooks due to imprudent monetary policies.

The possibility that gold could surge to as high as $10,000/oz is gaining traction amongst some respected market participants.

Paul Brodsky, co-founder of QB Asset Management Company has again warned regarding the risks posed to US Treasuries and the possibility of a sharp revaluation of gold that could see gold reach $10,000/oz.

A twenty-year veteran of the bond market in his own right, Brodsky told King World News that the US may return to some form of Gold Standard in order to restore faith in the US dollar.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

1) The Fed didn't give money to foreign banks, it bought some foreign securities to ensure liquidity.

2) We were discussing BAD debt, so I derived an approximate figure. US budget deficits aren't "bad" debt in the classical sense, though I AGREE 100% that we need to get our FISCAL house in order. I support a balanced budget amendment,

3) We are withdrawing from Iraq, and we'll soon do the same in Afghanistan.

4) The price of gold is irrelevant. It's just one of many commodities.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

1) while cash levels in US and US-based foreign-banks correlate almost perfectly with the Fed's reserve balances, as they should, there is a notable divergence beginning around May of 2010, or the first Greek bailout, when Europe was in a state of turmoil, and when cash assets of foreign banks jumped by $200 billion, independent of the Fed and of cash holdings by US banks. About 6 months later, this jump in foreign bank cash balances had plunged to the lowest in years, due to repatriated fungible cash being used to plug undercapitalized local operations, with total cash just $265 billion as of November 17, just as QE2 was commencing. Incidentally, the last time foreign banks had this little cash was April 2009... Just as QE1 was beginning. As to what happens next, the first chart above says it all: cash held by foreign banks jumps from $308 billion on November 3, or the official start of QE2, to $940 billion as of June 1: an almost dollar for dollar increase with the increase in Fed reserve balances. In other words, while the Fed did nothing to rescue foreign banks in the aftermath of the first Greek crisis, aside from opening up FX swap lines, one can argue that the whole point of QE2 was not so much to spike equity markets, or the proverbial "third mandate" of Ben Bernanke, but solely to rescue European banks!

What this observation also means, is that the bulk of risk asset purchasing by dealer desks (if any), has not been performed by US-based primary dealers, as has been widely speculated, but by foreign dealers, which have the designatin of "Primary" with the Federal Reserve. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/exclusive-feds-600-billion-stealth-bailout-foreign-banks-continues-expense-domestic-economy-

2) ""I support a balanced budget amendment"" me too. It would be nice just to break even for once. cheers! dink

3) Yep. Obama announces the full withdrawal of troops from Iraq but fails to persuade Nouri al-Maliki to allow US to keep bases there

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/21/iraq-rejects-us-plea-bases

But the wars are expanding. We are fighting on two continents now. And expanding in Africa.

4) Is the price of eggs irrelevant too? Because they are going up in price as well. Not that their VALUE has gone up. Theres still the same amount of protein in eggs, after all. Is the price of energy irrelevant? Gas is going higher looking at trends.

The price of things going up is an indicator of inflation. And we should all know by now that according to Ben Bernanke inflation is a tax. Why would Gold be any less of an indicator than everything else that is skyrocketing.

Oh, but its a great day to get back into that stock market though isn't it. Another golden buying opportunity as they say.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

1) I was only correcting the language you used regarding what we did in foreign markets. We BOUGHT securities from them so they would have more cash to fight off runs and remain 'liquid'. You and I both know this is a form of "lending" and the sanity of it depends on whether the instruments we bought have corresponding worth at the end of the holding period (how ever long that may be).

2) <dink> Hmmmm, I LOVE a good scotch ;o)

3) Yes, we WANTED to stay, and the silly Iraqi's should have LET us stay, but they didn't, so we're out. Defense budgets will eventually start falling (right now they're being used as another form of "stimulus'")

4) Did you know the USA is becoming a world leader in the production of energy? This is going to matter a lot. People shouldn't EAT eggs, by the way ;o)

5) Good day for us capitalists? Yep, I just a moved a bunch of cash back in. Given the reduction in household debt (among those who HAVE a job), I have a sneaking suspicion Christmas will be pretty good this year. Fingers crossed !

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

too bad that reserve currency status is in jeopardy. Have you seen Russia and China are dumping US treasuries?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Just thought I'd copy the links from a different response to MonetizingDiscontent so you can enjoy them too !

Pretty good description of how the modern economy emerged from the ashes of WW II at http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/center/mm/eng/mm_dr_01.htm.

Good overview of the Triffin Dilemma at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma

From China: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2011-05/30/content_12601024.htm

And an unrelated post provided only because it provides a rare voice of optimism (though somewhat unsubstantiated) from a Brit regarding the US : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8844646/World-power-swings-back-to-America.html

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

thanks Rico I'll check it when I can

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Precisely. Do you suppose Rico knows something Russia and China do not?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

It's "in jeopardy" over the long term from SDRs issued by the IMF. Google the Triffin Dilemma and you'll understand why.

Please provide a link substantiating that "Russia and China are dumping US treasuries."

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

They are inching toward the exit door for a calm exit. Thay cant just dump everything all at once, It would cause panic and end up hurting them. They are buying up allll the gold they can while they slowly get out of the dollar.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/indepth/2011-10/20/c_131201185.htm

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Right, so the term "dumping" is a bit reactionary.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

Russia reduces it's holdings each month. I guess "dumping" could mean several things. Maybe seriously dumping would only apply to Russia at the moment. But I'm sure all of them will have the runs shortly with what the fed is doing.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Yes, our debtors have been quite vocally upset upset at us for devaluing the dollar. Try as we may, however, the dollar remains the place where people run when they're scared, so we haven't been able to push it down as far as we'd like. We HAVE managed, however, the get the Chinese to unpeg from the dollar, and that's something we've been trying to get them to do for decades.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

unfortunately this orchestrated "push-down" of the dollar causes a "push-up" on our groceries,gas,clothing, etc.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Yes, we have recently seen some inflation, but it's hardly "hyper inflation."

See http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/currentinflation.asp

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

not yet. you're correct but doubling in price is quite a bit of inflation and is considerably more than the cpi index indicates.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

They changed the cpi index. It used to include looking at food and gas prices too right? I keep hearing something about this and never get around to looking it up. Sometimes I'm lazy. I need to do that.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

ya there's debate about that. I don't know who to believe. I'm too busy to know everything.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

yeah, I think the ruling class probably prefer an orderly devaluation of the dollar rather than chaotic. China needs more gold to be a contender if there is going to be an SDR or some other new form of global currency. They are trying to position themselves. They dont have enough. So they are making a slower exit while they build up their physical holdings.

Russia on the other hand has all the gold they really need, I think. They can afford to be more aggressive. They probably feel more ready for the music to stop in a bankers game of musical chairs, than China does.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

The transition to SDRs has ALREADY started. It's NOT going to be some abrupt change with a public announcement, it's going to be gradual in order to prevent panic.

We ignored the economists at Bretton Woods and decided in our arrogance to be the reserve currency. That forced us to pursue a monetary policy tied to the global GDP rather than our own; the world needs sufficient tokens to facilitate commerce, and we signed up to be the provider of those tokens.

SDRs issued by the IMF are essentially the "Bancor" that the economists pushed for at Bretton Woods. There is a broad movement around the world to transition off the dollar to these SDRs, and it will be GOOD for us; we will finally be able to pursue a monetary policy designed to support OUR economy rather than the WORLD's. There's going to some VERY interesting things happening at some point along the way... we're going to have to get our fiscal house in order AND the world is going to have to figure out how to retire all those dollars out there.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

That will cost us our sovereignty in case you haven't thought of it. No thanks. That's all we need, a Global Banking Constitution. Global governance through a global banking consortium of unelected officials setting policy for the entire western world. Where is your Democracy in that? You reveal yourself. Do you have no country?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

To the contrary. Once the WORLD has something other than the dollar, the USA is free to pursue a monetary policy driven by it's NATIONAL needs.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

hm, share the link?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Pretty good description of how the modern economy emerged from the ashes of WW II at http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/center/mm/eng/mm_dr_01.htm.

Good overview of the Triffin Dilemma at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma

From China: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2011-05/30/content_12601024.htm

And an unrelated post provided only because it provides a rare voice of optimism (though somewhat unsubstantiated) from a Brit regarding the US : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8844646/World-power-swings-back-to-America.html

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

google Russia and China dumping the dollar.

BRIC they call it Brazil, Russia, India, China going to a basket of currencies. But Russia is significantly reducing their holdings.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Absolutely. Yes sir, the writing is on the wall. Good to meet you number 2

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

you too. looks like we are on the same frequency

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

peanut butter is doubling in price. eggs have doubled already. gasoline? If this is true then the hyperinflation rumors will come true.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

As peanut butter goes up, and eggs, and gas, gold goes up too. The price of things goes up because the Federal Reserve has inflated the economy with so much money-printing. That debases the dollar, hurting its purchasing power, so it buys less, the dollar goes down.

Clearly the banks are responsible for the financial crisis, especially the Federal Reserve.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

Yes, and when Americans are in debt at the personal, State, and Federal level, it's GOOD to devalue the dollar. See my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/inconvenient-truths-america/ for starters.

WE borrowed up to our necks buying foreign products AND got sucked into the whole "Flip That House" mentality. Lots of people and China got rich and are sitting on PILES of our dollars. When we devalue the dollar, we devalue the holdings of the rich while simultaneously raising the apparent cost of imports and lowering the cost of exports. Note that money ALSO has a time value and, when there's inflation, people holding lots of it tend to go ahead and spend it. These are all things we NEED, and thank God the Federal Reserve is doing what they are... otherwise we'd actually have to PAY BACK all that debt with REAL dollars !

Bubbles, by the way, were just as bad when the world was on gold/silver as they are today. Check into the Dutch Tulip Panic, Spain's South American Land bubble, and France's Louisiana Land bubble. These bubbles almost brought those countries down !

Money is just a TOKEN that facilitates commerce. Imagine I have some excess milk and want some wheat. WITHOUT tokens, I have to find someone who both wants milk and has excess wheat. WITH tokens, I need only find one person who wants milk and another who has wheat. The tokens have no intrinsic value separate from the goods and services they can buy.

Gold is only one of a zillion things people might want to buy, and it's FAR from the most useful. If gold is used in commerce, then anyone who manages to collect a LOT of it can throttle commerce, even though few even WANT gold ! This has happened several times in the past.

Note that we DID expand and contract the money supply even when we were on gold/silver. We DECIDED how much of the gold and silver we held was allowed into circulation specifically to control it's value. Why ELSE do you think theres a clause in the 18th century Constitution granting Congress the authority to "coin money and REGULATE THE VALUE thereof" ?

Finally, study your history and you'll see we have had entire POLITICAL PARTIES formed around the principle of "loose money." They emerged at a time when farmers were suffering under debt and wanted more INFLATION !

[-] 1 points by larocks (414) from Lexington, KY 3 years ago

u think causing inflation is the answer. it maybe for the country in the short term but your talking of families who try to survive on 10k a year. what will the cost of their survival b. im just glad im a redneck raised in the mountians and i know how to hunt and raise a garden. thats one thing my family was always strong about was learning to live off the land. we were taught that because of your bubbles and currency values. i dont need a fed reserve or a bank to keep my wealth or tell me what my wealth is. my wealth is knowledge and when u become homeless and hungry my friend cause you dont know what parts of a deer you eat or when to plant corn then i will b in high demand. trust me its coming and im just glad those values were important in my childhood. were i come from beeing poor was not a choice it was a way of life. we worked the dangerous job were mortality rates were some of the highest in the country so people in new york could stay warm from coal. i thought i got lucky and escaped to become one of the brainwashed people believing that college would give me a better life. it didnt and prob wont for most of our children. i just hope the hyperinflation doesnt start soon. i think if leaders would pay attention to whats going on and change things then we could save this great nation. the fed reserve doesnt work and it will never work. the answer the fed gives is print more money. i remember times as a child when there wasnt any money in our home. but we survived cause we learned to take from the land what we put in it. think you should watch a movie called matewan. u might learn something from it about economics of the poor and the type of economy we are headed for. and to be quite honest with u if it ever came to were i had to hunt to survive. i dont think i would pay a tax so i could hunt game in the wild. liscence and so fourth. cause all i would be doing then is paying the king to eat.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

""POLITICAL PARTIES formed around the principle of "loose money."

eww, Rico

""Note that we DID expand and contract the money supply even when we were on gold/silver."" (standard)

Yes but there was a limit, wasn't there. Now you don't want a cap at how much you can expand/inflate the bubble. You can only water down a bottle of medicine before its useless, and completely without value.

Look what has happened after the repeal of Glass Steagall (Thank you Citigroup). It deregulated the banks so much that it legalized the fraudulent activity banks are engaging in right up to this very day, even after Dodd/Frank.

""We DECIDED how much of the gold and silver "" we held was allowed into circulation specifically to control it's value.""

wow I didn't know that, that's very interesting. Thank you.

""Why ELSE do you think theres a clause in the 18th century Constitution granting Congress the authority to "coin money and REGULATE THE VALUE thereof" ?""

Well that's why I thought that video might be of some concern. If the Federal Reserve is Private, its not government. Congress created the Federal Reserve, but its a private bank. That's Fraud too if its true, and if they are posting Private Property signs to legally keep protesters away, its also an admission of fraud isn't it?

Just bring it back under congress, that's all, and all is forgiven.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

I've tripled my money in gold and silver but it doesn't make up for the losses at the grocery store and gas station.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

nods, yes, it retains the value of your money the day you bought, instead of letting it sit in a bank for virtually no interest while your dollars lose all their purchasing power over time, due to money printing. Because as they print, the dollar gets debased.

Its not that gold is worth any more than it was 100 years ago or more. The purchasing power of the dollar is crashing, so it takes more dollars to buy gold and silver. Just like eggs and gas and everything else!

Congrats on your wise investments ;) (Dont keep it all in a bank, in case they shut down for a 'bank holiday')

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 3 years ago

you're preaching to the choir here.

[-] 1 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 3 years ago

This is insane. Stop this!

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 3 years ago

yup, here we go again

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Its hard to wrap your mind around it all. THATS more than the entirety of Americas (admitted) Debt! How much more will they keep finding! And thats just ONE bank.

I understand that JP Morgan has 90 TRILLION! Trying to find that link, somebody please correct me if Im wrong about that.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 3 years ago

The Wall Street Journal throws out a $79 trillion figure for derivatives at JPMorgan Chase but then says it actual EXPOSURE is a more reasonable $360 billion.

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/09/30/morgan-stanley-more-on-its-derivatives-exposure/

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

thank you for that, Rico. This is where I saw the 90 Trillion number. http://boombustblog.com/BoomBustBlog/An-Independent-Look-into-JP-Morgan.html

Its is from a pretty good source actually, I've been following this guy for a while. He's so often ahead of the mainstream. But hey, I cant readily argue with WSJ either, myself, not just yet. The real numbers will come out eventually, whichever they are.

79 - 90 Trillion, what's 11 Trillion between friends right?

[-] 0 points by IChowderDown (110) from Dallas, TX 3 years ago

"Holy F*#K. Scary Facts. Thanks for sharing, I also followed up a stunning video thanks to you MonetizingDiscontent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cJqM2tFOxLQ

Alan Grayson questions the Inspector General of the Federal Reserve - 05/09/10

I found this through this website "dailybail.com" http://dailybail.com/home/there-are-no-words-to-describe-the-following-part-ii.html

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 3 years ago

Beautiful link, IChowderDown.