Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Ralph Nader hosts third party debate Sunday, Nov 4

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 4, 2012, 12:35 p.m. EST by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Featuring: Rocky Anderson, Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, Virgil Goode

Sunday, Nov. 4, 7:30pm ET // 6:30pm CT // 5:30pm MT // 4:30pm PT Busboys & Poets, 14th & V St NW, Wash DC

Watch live online:

http://www.busboysandpoets.com/videos/live-streaming

33 Comments

33 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

Debate is about to begin. 7:30pm ET // 6:30pm CT // 5:30pm MT // 4:30pm

This should be great.

Watch live online:

http://www.busboysandpoets.com/videos/live-streaming

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

Can you see debate. Is it pay per view?

Guess I'll see it on you tube:(

I guess the duopoly has it on 10 hour delay or something.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

I don't have audio.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

Oh it just came on, sort of

I get this now. At first I had video no audio.

I bet there is a royalty Site Error: Unable to Load Site Preferences; No Preferences Found

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

If Goldman Sachs were sponsoring the debate we wouldn't have these problems. : )

[-] 2 points by NVPHIL (664) 2 years ago

I can't wait to see what issues will be debated. The first debate did a goo job of covering some of the important issues of the day.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I was a little dissappointed in the production of this one.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

It's working for me now . . . mostly. I might just wait and catch the video later.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

Bummer. Works stream comes through on ipad, but not oppening on this pos computer. thats tech.

The fun is about to start.

And now seems frozen on iPad. Site error. Worked 4 minute ago.

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

Let assume she win by luck there is no one in the senate or the house from green party so she will be in lock down ,what she need to do to work hard to push green party members to those places (you start from bottom up )

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

You mean in lock down like Independent Bernie Sanders? I agree it is good to have alternatives in races at all levels. IMO, candidates for president give visibility to alternative parties which can help their growth on state and local levels.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Which one of them do you think will be elected?

I like Jill Stein, but I did the analysis and it turns out she doesn't seem to be polling more than 5 percent anywhere.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

Anderson - Stein ticket wins in 2016, if they can get elected to Congress in 2014, and build a record continuing to fight for the people, and if they can Unite in a Justice Green Party, and break the power of the corporate duopoly.

Elect Real Progressives 2012

Not Kidding. How? I know you're asking yourself.

By Americans waking up when shit hits fan due to fiscal cliff and these old parties still can't even talk in good faith, and double dip hits. Especially the party of voldermort: the corporate puppet masters. The 1 percent profit from gloom.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Ok! I'm with you. Your requires only that we wake up?

No specific plan or goal?

Movetoamend.com, nationalpopulatvote.com, opendabates.com. none of that?

Just wake up and elect real progressives?

Sounds easy. I'm support you.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

Oh yea, we will want that too.

People will be pretty pissed the parties stood by and let them get punched in the gut a second time.

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-17/commentary/32699539_1_marc-faber-bernanke-new-crash

Yea. Stock up on necessities.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Sounds apocalyptic. You don't think it will that bad do you?

I mean hoarding food & ammo bad? Sounds scary.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

No. The opposite. Violence solves nothing. Only way out is peace and kindness.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/30/economic-ruin-super-rich-totalitarian-capitalism

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Sounds pretty bad. Whatever name you call it, in America it sounds like the republican agenda.

So if you didn't mean to "stock up on necessities" what do you suggest we do.

[-] 4 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

Below is sample from the book.... Which is slightly dated, which shows this problem of the one per cent has been existing for some time. So far,it doesn't negate the hypothesis that republicans are the problem.

"Citizens for Tax Justice (a group backed by Ralph Nader, which monitors tax abuses and lobbies the government for fairer taxation) pointed out that the average reader paid more tax last year than AT&T, Du Pont, Boeing, Merrill Lynch, Dow Chemical, and Walt Disney paid collectively from 1982 through 1985!!

Do yourself a favor and reread the above paragraph.

In fact, of the 250 companies that they were monitoring, 108 of them had an average tax rate of 1.6%. {B50}

Neither government nor economic smooth talkers are now able to mask the social effects of taxation changes favoring the richest 1% introduced during the Reagan administration. As a result of fiscal policy initiated by Paul Volcker and James Baker, the number of billionaires began skyrocketing. From a relatively stable 13, their numbers all of a sudden doubled in 1986, quadrupled by 1987, and have (since 1987) increased an additional 50 to their present level of 99. This unethical shift of wealth from the poorest to the richest 1% simultaneously caused shelters for the homeless and grocery handout centers to spring up in practically every city in the nation. The more the reader appreciates the tremendous scale of corporate welfare, the less apt he or she will be to blame the deficit on the increasing numbers who are forced to collect unemployment or welfare. The crime and drug abuse epidemics are additional visible manifestations of the anger and desperation felt by the policy's victims."

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

It's good to see the numbers and the facts. I've known of this injustice for some time. For me it is at the center of my motivation in protesting for decades & joining OWS.

So many people are unaware, or in denial. So much work to do. I think it will be years, and slow progress.

The alternative is too bloody and violent.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

WTF? http://www.mindmined.com/public_library/nonfiction/david_f_feudalism_aka_capitalism.html

Strict 1 party theory of evil may need a tiny tweak. ....

"The Two Party Facade

As Congress increasingly becomes a fraternity of lawyers competing for special interest favors for the particular economic elite who support them, the distinction between Republican and Democrat becomes increasingly irrelevant.The Trilateral Commission virtually came to power on the coat tails of Jimmy Carter, a Democrat. Four of the five senators used by (pro-elite) Charles Keating of Lincoln Savings and Loan, to lobby on his behalf were also Democrats. {B139} The distinction is becoming progressively academic, and really only seems to matter when all the congressional showmen take part in the electoral farce every few years. In Western Society, labor-oriented interests (whom the Congressional Democrats are supposedly representing) never truly ever get controlling power over their nation's destiny. Why not? because...

The economic elite exercise an operating control over the economy, the media, the legal profession, the military, the secret services, as well as the majority of congressmen to whom they provide campaign funding, no matter which party is in power. Of course getting control means more than just winning a Presidential electi...."

I didn't know all that, but this socialist, and dated writing has some iota of plausible truth. (- the end of book he might be overly "slanted")

Peace and Growth. (Its all cool. We occupy same planet and succeed together.)

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yes more than just the presidency. All political offices need to be filled with forward thinking progressives. IMO.

election/campaign reform will be necessary. mobetoamend.com. nationalpopularvote.com, opendebates.com to start with.

I also like mandatory voting. It's what the 1% fear the most.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

We should at least fill our minds with knowledge so we are not taken unaware. Here's a great free online book I've been enjoying the past half hour.

http://www.mindmined.com/public_library/nonfiction/david_f_feudalism_aka_capitalism.html

I think everyone would find it confirms how the 1 percent have been taking us to the cleaners, blindly for a long time, and how historically, this has evolved from feudalism.

Stay positive. Enjoy peace.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I can see the evolution from feudalism to capitalism, certainly from slavery to wage slavery.

In any event something major has to change for workers to have any kind of justice/fairness/freedom from the 1% oligarchs in power.

Thx

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

This has proved true too...

"Contrary to their continued displays of concern over the increasing deficit, the elite and their functionaries in congress will in reality become less and less concerned about the growing deficit because their share of the tax burden diminishes with every new tax reform!! In future, billionaires and multimillionaires will accumulate ownership of the national wealth at an even faster rate than at present. For those who pay little or no taxes, the growing national debt is scarcely a concern! The elite are not at all affected by cuts to social welfare programs. The only social welfare that affects them is corporate welfare and it has been increasing non-stop since the 50's. However, for the so-called working middle class and their children, the ballooning deficit will translate into a significant loss of social benefits, poorer education and health facilities, etc., in short, a continuing drop in standard of living."

 - i don't know what to do than to stay positive, try to come up with solutions to these big problems, and like we try to do at work, speak our truth from the heart.

I just mean literally, people ought to have a minimum 3 day supply of necessities, and current event are showing a 2 week supply might be more prudent.

I think we will be ok if we all look for the common good.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well conservatives by nature do not "look for the common good", and as things get worse & people become desperate and scared they naturally become more conservative and less concerned with the common good.

So I suppose we should do something about the deficit.?

Cut the military budget, raise the wealthy taxes.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

As a rule, yes 80 percent of corruption is cons (that's just a ball park guestimate probably higher)

But read this. There are some well known dems in the below scandal, such as senator Glenn,..."And now to the Lincoln fiasco.

When Mr Charles Keating, a lawyer, purchased Lincoln Savings and Loan for $51 million back in 1984, it had assets worth 1 billion. In one of his investment ventures later that same year, Keating used Lincoln's federally insured S&L deposits to effectively make $30 million in "greenmail" profit involving a take over bid for Dallas-based Gulf Broadcasting Co. {B119} Then in 1985, Mr Keating hired none other than the present chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, Mr Alan Greenspan, to lobby government to allow diversification from home loans into direct equity investments. In fact, Mr Greenspan praised Lincoln as "a financially strong institution that presents no foreseeable risk to the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corporation". Mr Greenspan was successful. Mr Keating was virtually free to speculate directly. Mr Greenspan's lobbying had in effect pulled the cork. By October 1986 when San Francisco regulators first investigated Lincoln, the S&L already had unreported losses of $135 million. The regulators started putting pressure on Mr Keating.

At this stage Mr Keating first called in four of the five Senators (that would later come to be called the "Keating Five") to lobby on his behalf. The Senators, who were all recipients of Keating's generous campaign support, received the following: Senator Alan Cranston of California, $974,000; Senators John McCain of Arizona, $125,000; Dennis DeConcini of Arizona, $48,000; Senator John Glenn of Ohio, $234,000; and Senator Riegle of Michigan, $76,000. The first four Senators lobbied the Washington-based head of the Home Loan Bank Board, Mr Edwin Gray, on April 2 1987, in Senator DeConcini's office. Mr Gray, who later commented that the four senators "came at me like lawyers arguing for a client", refused to be bullied into submission and suggested that they deal directly with the San Francisco Bank Board regulators under whose jurisdiction Lincoln actually fell."

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Much data here. I agree so far. There is much to do if we are to change things. I'm not so sure how innocent the founding fathers were. I mean there was a wide difference between the ruling class an the rest of us back then too.

But it certainly wasn't as bad.as today.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

The guy has quite a load of data to go through. I don't know about that Trilateral Commission. Seems like people in 80s were thinking it was a conspiracy of elites to dominate world. Paul Volker, Ben Bernank lots of elites on it.

But sure, overall seems factually based.

The guy has a lot of ideas towards possible solutions too. Don't know what all to do till change for better happens. Probably jus gonna stay messed up cause many greedy sociopaths like power and wealth.

I just don't want us to keep going down path to third world statutes, and seems like we're not far from poverty, just couple pay checks. But, the system not up to me. People been warning about powerful, and the titanic band plays on.

I don't know if economy will crash. But some seem to believe it could. Maybe be like in fight club, and debt gets erased. Jubilee.

I hope all the repub. con thieves get slapped down big time soon. Don't know how that will happen, but they are sure united in their talking points against "big govnt" ....Mitch McConnell 60 Minutes tonight keeps saying evil big government so much I'm almost starting to buy it myself.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The repubs are relentless. This election is watershed. Much legal challenges in the works. May takeweeks to settle.

How we resolve our problems is unclear. I like debt jubillee, I like 3rd party. I will fight to keep right wing from power & for progressive change that benefits the 99%.

But the PTB never give up power easily.

It will take years of hard work.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by gsw (2734) 2 years ago

Finally, the key,....."Because politicians, both Republicans and Democrats alike, come mainly from the richest 10 percent and have small personal fortunes to protect, they are eager to create tax shelters. After all, exemption from taxes is still one of the best vehicles available for amassing and retaining wealth. The tax reforms of 1981, which relieved the elite of so much of their tax share that budget deficits and widespread social program cutbacks resulted, were passed for exactly the same reason. As long as the Congress is controlled by lawyers, the rich will continue getting richer while the poor become poorer.  

The Forgotten Concept ...Representation

Democracy by nature implies representation. Congress is supposed to be composed of people who represent the needs and interests of the group who elect them. Unless this happens, democracy doesn't happen!! And it certainly isn't happening! In reality, Congress is made up mainly of lawyer/politicians who have never known hunger. Few if any have worked for the minimum wage. Few if any can count even one blue collar family as belonging to their circle of friends. Due to the lack of meaningful contact with the nation's poorer citizens, Congress manages at best an academic appreciation of the day to day hardships endured by the people to whom they owe a fiduciary responsibility, but with whom they have little or no real social contact, except for a brief period immediately prior to elections.

American democracy as it functions today does not represent the will of the majority, nor does it satisfy the needs of the majority. Instead, Washington is controlled by lawyers who have cunningly transformed the supposed seat of democracy into an arena in which representatives of the elite, can compete to amicably decide how best to share both foreign and domestic resources. Lawyer/politicians act as the intermediaries to minimize disputes among the special interest parties. Politicians and special interest groups (lawyers, and more lawyers) fit together like hand and glove.

The "quid pro quo" relationship works so well that in both 1986 and 1988, 98% (ninety-eight percent) of House members seeking reelection, were successfully reelected.". http://www.mindmined.com/public_library/nonfiction/david_f_feudalism_aka_capitalism.html

[Deleted]

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by NadePaulKuciGravMcKi (6) 2 years ago

uncensored ... the 9-11-01 truth bomb shall drop

[-] -1 points by Futurevision1 (-75) 2 years ago

You two need to get a room.