Forum Post: Propagandized Rabid Right Wing Uneducated Masses
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 12:30 p.m. EST by ithinkergoiam
(201)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Republican Deflection Politics - propaganda for the purpose of controlling wealth and power.
Control the masses by DEFLECTING their attention away from their own distressed and desperate condition, and reassign that attention to other issues that have very little to do with their current condition. All for the purpose of maintaining and multiplying one's current share of the nation's wealth.
The people that practice deflection politics do so by attempting to manipulate thought, by focused exploitation of fear, and the outright denial of rational logic and fact.
They focus on such themes as:
• Guns • God • Gays • Fear • Freedom • Patriotism • Terrorism • Socialism • Marxism
to keep the average person "on their side". If you don't think a certain way, then you're not patriotic, or you're not a good Christian. If you're not aligned with their theme, you are attacked by the ad hominem argument. Fallacious personal attacks are their weapon of mass destruction. Instead of an appeal to the facts and relevant logical discourse, they dabble and even waddle steadfastly within the domain of classical fallacy.
Please understand that you are voting against your own best self interest!
Beware of the tricksters. I see a lot of posts intended to deceive people into following a cause that on the surface seems reasonable but in fact is something that will help the banks and other big money causes.
Like using a credit card to send donations to the OWS cause?
I've seen them all over.. Flat taxes, ending income tax, ending regulations, abolishing the fed... They gain attention because they sound punchier than progressive demands which are usually more measured and complicated.
Abolishing the Fed is a point where those on the right and left agree. It isn't a partisan issue at all. If you care about the poor and middle class and dislike a government granted monopoly to the banks - you don't like the Fed.
the federal reserve is actually a huge problem.
Listen to democrat dennis kucinich talk about how they prop up the banks and create fat cat city - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpXDZFtEHw
The GAO audit exposed the federal reserve's 16 trillion in bailouts to banks and corporations. 1 trillion going to Bank of America alone.
It is possible to rework monetary policy, end inflation, and introduce currency to society through job creation and city building instead of the current practices of debt that prop up the big banks and the 1% and causes inflation.
A proper reform of monetary policy would also allow us to lower taxes for the working class, fund universal healthcare and college for all, and fund the building of our infrastructure which makes our cities better and more beautiful.
Currently our tax dollars are paying interest on loans from the federal reserve... how does that make sense?
The fed creates money from nothing... gives it to the banks at insanely low interest... the banks keep it on deposit and make a profit and then they loan the money out to people and small businesses at high interest. This is how money is introduced into the economy. Our debt based monetary policy needs reform.
Austerity and debt are counter productive. This is the USA we need GROWTH
So true.
I agree, but I don't believe these people are any more stupid than the rest of us. The same mainstream media does a good enough job tricking the leftist hipsters with diffrent terms. Its not a "left vs right" problem, but a mainstream media problem.
We are not either group. We need patience. What we have is a credibility gap. The mainstream media spends zillions on PR agencies to learn how to manipulate people. They are harsh cruel, and uncaring, and they can enforce their views via threat of excommunication. We are only in week 4, and we are nobodies still who need to build credibility.(we are)
We need to be real, no shortcuts, and the credibility gap we face will shrink. Oh, and be your own media. MSNBC will make us the boogieman to put in FOX's closet if we let them.
In general middle American on mainstrea(whats left of it anyway), are generally good honest people. There is a perception gap. Its not our fault, but its still our job to fix it.
Instead of berating people, just let them know when fox news and the conseravatives fail them we are hear to listen. Make sure they know just because they have short hair and believe in Jesus, there is no reason they can't participate. Speaking of which, what would Jesus do. When the romans came to lynch him, he turned the other cheek. He wasn't so kind to money changers. He drove them out of the temple with whips and chains. Ursury is SIN. A mainstay of financial organization information is called "MORNING STAR" of all things. If anyone is a group of satanists in this country its the financial industry. In addition to Ursury, there are plenty of very real satanic symbols in the financial industry.
Christians are welcome, we have a common enemy.
Are you a Fox new media fan?
fuck no. I just know we need to reach out to middle America. After all, they are the ones who lost all their houses. In doing so is a real credibility gap between us and them based on misconceptions they have about us. We need to bridge this gap.
Agreed
and you would say if i think like a republican tea party patriot that im uneducated, uite hypocritical if you ask me
Beware of the tricksters. I see a lot of posts intended to deceive people into following a cause that on the surface seems reasonable but in fact is something that will help the banks and other big money causes.
yep
A Genius named Eugenius1 points out 19 hours ago
There is a difference! Pick one!
One of the main pillars of Conservative wisdom is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference. A stark difference!
One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference.
One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference.
One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to feed the poor, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference.
One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality.
In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy.
So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re Un-American. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one.
I see the OP is still working overtime to divide and ruin the movement and to shill for his party.
Right...
Yes, I am.
Republicans would outsource their own mothers....
It's pretty simple. All Occupy Wall Street protest signs should read:
"Bankers, Politicians, Mortgage Holders, Greedy Corporations and the thieving rich say to us: Let them eat cake! We say: Off with their heads!"
This is the best slogan because that says it all!
It's pretty simple. All Occupy Wall Street protest signs should read:
"Bankers, Politicians, Mortgage Holders, Greedy Corporations and the thieving rich say to us: Let them eat cake! We say: Off with their heads!"
This is the best slogan because that says it all!
Ok -- I'll buy that..
Democrats engage in the same tactics. Class warfare is their favorite. Your very post is a good example of the way democrats like to divide people into groups to pit one against the other.
Please -- get real...
Do you disagree with my statement? Please tell me how I'm wrong.
A Genius named Eugenius1 points out 19 hours ago
There is a difference! Pick one!
One of the main pillars of Conservative wisdom is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference. A stark difference!
One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference.
One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference.
One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to feed the poor, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference.
One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality.
In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy.
So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re Un-American. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one.
Eugenius1 is a 19 year old punk kid who belongs to every leftist board on the internet. These are strictly his opinions nothing more. I can refute every point he made but don't take my word for it find out for yourself. The republcrats are two side of the same corrupt coin. Wall Street was Obama's biggest doner and they got trillions in bailout money for it.
And your refutations -- are they your opinions?
Argumentum ad Hominem (i.e. punk, kid, etc..) is the right winger's WMD....
Such an obvious classical logical fallacy...
Read your post those are OPINIONS they are not facts. My opinions differ from his. Go down the list at just about every point I have a differing view on that topic. You will have to make up your own mind. Both parties are crooks. Look at how many millionaires are in congress. How many became millionaires after they got elected. Its not as stark as it was 20 years ago when the dollar was worth a lot more. Five years in congress and you have a pension for life. You and I would go to jail for insider trading not members of congress. After they leave office they have lifetime rights to go back to the house or senate floor to talk(lobby) with their friends. No one else can do that. Thats why they just about all go to work for lobbying firms after they leave office. Ad hominem? You come back at me with a list of this kids opinions, that's supposed to blow me away, about which party is this or that, and try to pass them off as facts get real.
Faux is mocking the movement, claiming it's lazy mostly White college kids with nothing better to do and who are bored of their parents basements, camping out getting stoned in NYC.
That's what they said back in the 60's about those marching with MLK and the 70's marching for Peace, Love, and NOT WAR (Vietnam)! Don't listen to those couch potato's that can't get out to vote. They like the way thing are ....... To BAD.
The left does the same they focus on themes such as:
• Guns • God • Gays • Fear • Freedom • Patriotism • Terrorism • Socialism • Marxism
My point is both sides try and seize the advantage on every issue and both use deflecting politics. Your post is a simple case of the pot calling the kettle black
The left does the same they focus on themes such as:
• Guns • God • Gays • Fear • Freedom • Patriotism • Terrorism • Socialism • Marxism
My point is both sides try and seize the advantage on every issue and both use deflecting politics. Your post is a simple case of the pot calling the kettle black
MarkMad hit the nail on the head!
Gerrymandering has rendered voting nearly futile in many states. I wish OWS all the best, but I have little hope for change.
If the same defenders of the super-rich stay in power, nothing will be altered.
I've been attacked on this web site with quite a few ad-hominem arguments in the last two days for not being perfectly aligned with the theme . FYI...
Me too...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-rally-cry-to-occupy-join-in-once-voice/
We all know that the delusional right survives by deafening vicious lies. Fear is the only weapon they do possess. Their argument falls apart when you do ask them to explain why socialistic democracies are doing extremely well economically.
Right On brother!
"A most delicious psychological projection" - Howard Roark
Republicans attempts at selective hypocrisy never cease to put a smile on my face. the same smile I conveyed the first time I saw a cute puppy run into a wall!
schnitzlefritz got lost in his/her/both words. Please work on those emasculations, and forced to have to say it...this is not the forum for contemplative introspection. It doesn't get any truer than what ithinkergoiam has said, I can unequivocally concur, have observed the same firsthand over the course of the last 8000 days myself. Lets all stick to some truths!
Thanks again -- it's rough in here....
Uneducated? That's a laugh. I have a BS in chemical engineering. I've read everyone from Marx to Mao to Keynes. And the one thing I know, none of those idiots had it right. Marx was a bum. Keynes was half wit. And Mao was a murderer just like Che Guevara.
Wow -- with your BS degree, you really are such an authority on all of those men and their philosophical thoughts and principles, aren't you?
Why I'd have to say that your opinion of Keynes is precisely genius level...you're such a prodigy...
I'm hoping to read your next philosphical treatise very soon...
It's a secular, atheist, socialist, Marxist, gay-loving, jihad, communist, anarchist, Muslim, liberal media, hippy, Democrat, gun taking, Bible tearing, pot smoking, Big Government, flag burning, anti-American, pacifist take over of America, don't cha' know?
Think I covered them all there
Freedom for all not handouts to poor, we just need to be able to keep what we earn
We still need 5 gallon buckets for toilets, TP, and baby wipes.
Want to talk about a scam?
We need to address this before those very same right winger latch onto this:
I came to this site Friday night to offer my assistance as a non-profit organizer. I can do basic coding of web pages, accounting, and other functions.
Mainly I wanted to get some sanitation facilities out to Zucotto (sic) park.
In a matter of about 20 minutes I found over 15 contact listings, and left vmail and email on every one of them.
Where did everyone, and the "tens of thousands" http://afgj.org/?p=1765#more-1765 of dollars go?
Well, the General Assembly never was in the US, they are operating out of a hotel room somewhere in Nicaragua, and the money has been deposited in a Central American bank.
24 hours later, no response. They aren't even to requests from the site anymore. They have started scrubbing all references to Nicaragua’s internet provider NicaNet, AlterNet which was hosting their website, and AFGJ.org which was routing the money to a Central American bank
How could these people do this to our citizens, how can members of our government support this? They have to know, it only took me 20 minutes to find out, and they had days and hundreds of people on their staffs.
Donate locally, put it into the hands of a protester, do not donate online, or to the sketchy people at the UPS store.
wtf is argj.org
nycga.cc is the real link. YES they meet, because i've seen them in the park, and I work with the technical group. Its very real. we've discussed nycga.cc and permabank.cc very much in length.
What makes a person uneducated? If that person would suddenly agree with you, would you then consider them educated?
Clearly you are not in this category...
Interesting...as a God and Gun clinging conservative to see the tolerance and open mindedness you exhibit. So when Trumpka called me a Son of a Bitch, was that an ad hominem argument? And when Obama speaks arrogantly about those of us who believe in God and are comfortable and responsible with guns? Do you actually think only Democrats and Liberals have a corner on reason and purity of motive?
Absolutely NOT!
I trust the democrats as much as I trust the republicans, NONE. Nor do I want to take your guns, nor question your faith in God.(faith can be good, if you don't believe in something, you fall for anything).
What would jesus say about wall street. I don't know if he'd side with us, but I am certain he'd never side with wall street.
No -- but lets face it your party have driven the discourse off the charts!
I disagree. The Senate majority leader just acted on Friday to eliminate discourse in the greatest deliberative body the world has seen. And you say the Republicans have driven it off the charts. How can you call yourself objective and make such a statement? We may have forced some to engage issues in ways that make them uncomfortable or openly disagreed with them, but it has been the democrats in government, in the executive branch (Obamacare) and now in the Senate who have acted to prevent speech.
Man what planet have you been living on over the past three years?
The republican propaganda that's spewed 24/7/365 on countless radio stations and fox news television has, I'm guessing in your opinion, been mainstream?
Not always, but the reaction of the mainstream has been fear mongering and name calling. It amuses me that those mainstream folks accuse us on the right of intolerance and ignorance. Mostly they need a mirror.
Mainstream fearmongering - Haa haa haaa
What about 911
For eight years 911 911 911 911
yellow kake WMD etc...
Fear mongering my ass..
Keep those conspiracy theories going...they're evidence of your level of education...and we'll keep you secure from those who would like make sure the next underwear bomber is standing next to you.
Oh -- Argumentum ad hominem, and ad baculum as well....
Cool - I rest my case...
LOL! Thanks, I needed a good laugh. Any you guys purport to represent the 99%.
Rabid arent you?
No, just someone that you are trying to exclude from the 99%. I don't think that dividing the 99% and pitting one side against the other is going to help the cause.
Should I be thinking a certain way -- perhaps your way?
No, but don't try to exclude differing points of view, rail against republicans, tea part folks and the right of center gang and still think you somehow speak for the 99%.
And you do?
Speak for the 99%?
If so -- what do you/they really have to say?
I would never be so bold as to pretend to speak for anyone other than myself. You are the one disparaging a large portion of the 99% you pretend to speak for.
NOT -- very presumptuous arent you?
I dont pretend to speak for anyone either...
Just trying to get the kids to think...
Just trying to get the kids to think like you?
Nooo -- you are just trying to have the last word....
Nooo -- you are...
asshole
Yes, you are.
In the words of peewee herman
I know you are but what am I...
OK Prick Fuck...
We're good now right?
Yes, we're good now.
I was going to tell you to stick Pluto where the sun doesn't shine but, it already receives little sunlight and it would be rude of me to say.
Have a great evening!
Thanks -- and I was striving my best to be diplomatic...
Democrats use different methods. Obama expanded wars, kept gitmo open, extended the patriot act, bailed out banks, did not close tax loopholes for big companies. There is really no difference between the two in action. Just the means they use to attract votes. Each appeals to a different voter base to get into power to do the same things. The one thing I can agree on is the dems are better where social equality is involved.
You are an idiot -- he tried to do all of those things including the largest new set of Wall Street Regulations since the Great Depression you dope...
It has been the Republican Party that has thwarted his EVERY Move...
Believe that and be fooled. Have you studied the regulations? Do you know how they impact the wall street? Dont be fooled by phrases like regulations and health care. He had majority for two years. Why didnt he do anythin then? Simple - he didnt try to. Hes either too naive or dumb or corrupt. Not useful in any case. As far as corporate corruption is concerned they are all th same.
Please man -
What about Dodd/Frank?
What about the legislation to end the corporate tax breaks for companies that take the jobs overseas?
The republicans thwarted this and much more man...
What does the dodd/frank bill do? Why didnt he end tax breaks when he had the majority? By the way, do you know who his 2008 top campaign contributor was? Goldman Sachs! Do you seriously believe he will create policies that will affct them after taking their contributions? Im not saying he did nothing. Just that he never did anythig that would really reduce the influence of these corporations in the government. After all, they pay for the election campaigns.
maybe -- but the only real alternative are the Republicans -- and you surely don't think they are better on these matters do you?
Of course not. What is sad is we now have to pick the lesser evil. It doesnt have to be that way.
agreed, thats how its done and what goes on.
to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?
you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.
Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.
o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.
once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150343790359248&set=a.10150264906064248.348293.511989247&type=1&theater
Wall Street laughs at us behind their protective walls as does the President and Congress. Kindred spirits UNITE! We need to expand to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and take our message to President Obama! Congress also needs to hear us. They both have the power to change things. Things that they created
How can you claim to be for the 99% when I am seeing postings against TEA party, Republicans and Conservatives? Just come out and admit that this a left wing Democratic movement and be honest with everyone. Admit that 99% of you will vote democrat.
Are you a republican? or let's say a conservative?
Conservative and I am not a 1% nor am I with your group on this. I also support the TEA party movement. There is no room for me here.
I also see a lot of anti Republican posts in this forum. Folks don't seem to understand that attitudes like that will keep us from pulling together. They're actually helping to quell the movement by leaving folks like you out. We've got to stop pointing fingers at each other. That's exactly what the opposition wants.
In fact, they guy who wrote this topic is a troll. He's just trying to keep us on separate sides of a fence that doesn't even exist. It's not "me against you." It's "us against them." We all want the same thing. We want our country back.
I hate to disagree with you, but I have been monitoring and posting for a couple of weeks and it is quite prevalent the distaste for anything right wing. This has become a union supported and driven. Show me a union that supports any conservative or republican, it cannot be done.
Unions have definitely bolstered OWS, and they generally vote for Democrats. Conservative endorsement would really help bolster the movement too. In my experience, conservatives are slow to join, but when they do they stay committed. That's a generalization, of course, but a positive one. I'm so sorry to hear that you've been dissuaded.
Yeah, but the Democrats do the same thing, they just push different buttons. Instead of saying if you don't believe as we do you're a red or unpatriotic they say if you don't believe as we do you're a racist or you're greedy.
Partisan politics is in essence a false dichotomy; only one can be correct and the other is not only wrong but evil. That's a very shallow analysis. I think if people were simply presented the facts about any given issue without any prior 'branding' as 'liberal' or 'conservative' and simply evaluated them rationally a lot of 'liberals' might be surprised at how many 'conservative' positions they embraced and a lot of 'conservatives' might be surprised at how many 'liberal' positions they embraced.
They'd also notice many positions people embrace for partisan or ideologically driven reasons make no sense when evaluated critically; they represent the special interests of powerful lobbies, not the concerns of the American citizen. As long as lobbyists can bid openly for politicians and set American policy democracy is an illusion.
Sorry dude...
I'm a successful software engineer that has anaylized the REAL issue at the core of all of this current turmoil...
I'm in the top 10% for sure, and I'm saying categorically that there is indeed a difference between the two parties..
Republican Party has strongly endorsed the interests of cheap foreign labor (50 cent/day) over the interests of the average American Taxpaying Citizen...
This is truth man...
Your modest claim to be "a successful software engineer" "in the top 10% for sure" does nothing to bolster your claims. Your lofty claim to have "anaylized the REAL issue at the core of all of this current turmoil" is conveniently vague; perhaps you can elaborate? Or are you claiming that the allegedly uniquely Republican "politics of deflection" is the "issue at the core of this current turmoil"? If so I'm not impressed. Your analytical skills seem rather lax for a 'successful software' engineer.
Certainly the Obama administration's wall street bail out is a huge factor behind the current turmoil. Both parties suck, to put it bluntly. You seem to be a shill for the Democrats. Both parties have strongly endorsed the interests of cheap foreign labor over the interests of the average American taxpaying citizen.
In any event, I never said there was no difference between the two parties, I said they both practice what you call "deflection politics".
Both parties maybe so -- one party much more so...
Fact....
Democratic Party no more support for this - they know it was a major error...
Now now -- you seem to be engaging in the familiar adhominem arguement that's SOOOO very typical of a right winger...
I do indeed design software and embedded microprocessor circuits for a living...
I have spent 25 years in the manufacturing sector, and I do indeed understand exactly what is happening on this issue...
What do you do for a living sir?
Can you cite the alleged adhominem? I did say your analytical skills seem pretty lax for a software engineer, but that is hardly an adhominem attack; your writing "duh" in another response here is a lot more adhominem than anything I wrote.
Also, your suggestion I am a 'rightwinger' is not a reasonable conclusion based on what I've written. I said both parties suck and didn't disagree with your assertion that the GOP engages in what you call "deflection politics", I merely pointed out that Democrats do so as well. I think you give the democrats far more credit than they deserve.
As for what I do for a living, that is none of your business. Just because you felt compelled to broadcast your occupation online doesn't mean I should follow suit.
Look, with all due respect, your post comes off as cranky. You make lofty claims of having "analyzed THE root cause" and attempt to bolster your claims not with facts but by saying you're rich and successful. This comes across as arrogant and foolish, not analytical.
I really have no interest in having a flame war with you. If you present specific verifiable facts and sound arguments that support your position, we can rationally evaluate your claims. What you and I do for a living and how much money you earn is irrelevant.
Listen -- you sound like a reasonable man...
Here are some facts:
60 thousand factories moved to China during the last ten years... Over 6 million US Manufacturing jobs went with those factories... The US Chamber OF Commerce Completely endorsed this practise... The Republican Party's Largest Politcal Donor is The US Chamber OF Commerce...
I could supply you with "independent" third party data if you wish...
OK, but what are you trying persuade me of? I've already made it clear I don't like the Democrats or the Republicans, and that powerful lobbies (like the US Chamber of Commerce) are one of the countries biggest problems, are incompatible with true representative democracy, and ought to be illegal. The US C of C ipromotes predominantly GOP candidates. However, BOTH parties are owned by special interest lobbies, not just the GOP.
You seem to be very defensive of the Democratic party, not merely someone who sees them as, say, the lesser of two evils. Perhaps you can clarify. All I see with the two parties is the evil of two lessers.
Wow dude -- if you don't see that the Republican Party has immeasurablly damaged this Country in ways that noone in their right mind could compare to the Domocrats, then I'd suggest that you need to do some reading....
Maybe attend a college class or two, get an "A" in at least one course....
I'm having a real hard time believing you're a 'successful software engineer' with 25 years of experience. You don't present your arguments well, you engage regularly in adhominem attacks ( even as you accuse others of it), and your language is liberally peppered with juvenile slang. You really seem more like a teenager than an adult old enough to have been working 25 years.
You have this odd preoccupation with demanding that people concede the Republicans are much, much worse than the Democrats. I personally find this to be again, a pretty shallow concern that seems more like the way a teen or very young adult looks at the world. In many ways, the GOP is worse, in many ways the Dems are worse, and some members of both parties are worse than others.
As far as I'm concerned, it's like arguing over which superstitious beliefs are the most irrational or whether the Gods of ancient Egypt were more plausible than those of ancient Rome.
I've already indicated things I dislike about both parties. We know you hate the GOP; can you tell me some specific things you don't like about the Dems? You really seem to be more about ranting about the GOP and defending the Democrats than anything the OWS movement is about. Tell me something you don't like about the Democrats.
If you would like -- I'll send you my juvenile resume...
Read a book DUDE....
Not likin my slang?
I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, but there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers yourselves. Consequently, I have posted the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Right wing and left wing are mirror images of each other. If you truly believe that the conservatives are the only ones being force fed propaganda, then you're extremely naive. Learn to think for yourself instead of regurgitating the shit you hear on the 24-hour fear machine also known as news.
Please --- just look at the facts dude...
Republican Party has wholly endorsed the mass migration of US companies to China (60 thousand factories in last 10 years)...
Do you really believe that Democrats have endorsed this?
What are the real issues - JOBS, JOBS, JOBS...
Duhhh...
Totally irrelevant to my point...
What is your point --
The point of the average American right now is JOBS...
The point of the average american is jobs? I think you mean the CONCERN of the average american. And that may be true, but it doesn't mean that is all anyone is allowed to talk about... Dumbass.
My original point was that extremism is dangerous whether it's conservative extremism or liberal extremism. You know what they say, "everything in moderation."
And you are now not engaging in extremism with the dumbass comments?
Remember this whole thing is about economic opportunity for Americans ---
Wow, I didn't realize I was arguing with a retard. I'm sorry, this is over.
Oh a retard eh?
You son are an American Idiot!
Fail. Try again kid.
Shall we escalate?
I'm game, since you hit first....
By the way --- you really are 99% LOSER...
If there were a job opportunity for you, I doubt that any company would hire you...
You are arguing for something that you don't even know what it is...
You and your 99er friends are just little children with no real skills and understanding of the real world, and quite frankly with nothing really valuable to offer...
Start by reading a book.
Then read a second book...
The read several dozen more books...
Then enroll in college...
Then get a meaningful job...
Then pay taxes for your whole life...
Then you qualify to have a conversation with me...
OK Mikey, retard, dumb ass?
Still failing. Try again little guy.
Awww
I'm sorry -- did I offend you?
You friggin prick...
You're getting upset, which is probably why you're failing so hard. I'm a generous guy though, I'll give you another try.
No I'm not failing ...
You failed -- not me...
But I'm an even more generous guy, so I'll give you another try...
Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Thanks little buddy!
Ok you're the man ---
My new buddy -- but seriously you need to read you're first book -- ok?
Thanks
I've already read my first book. The fact that you even called it my "first" book, implies that I have read a second book, and possibly a third, and so on.
Nice try, but no cigar.
The truth is democracy means compromise. That is something the jackasses in DC have long forgotten. Both DEMS and REPS work for the same corporations and have paralyzed DC because that is what the corporations want. No legislation means no regulation and no regulation means they can continue to loot the country for their own gain. Bank on it.
Yes, don't let ethics or principle influence your voting. That mixing politics and religion. Vote you own self-interest! That's the ticket.
I think we need to occupy Washington and the entire government, take it back from the 1% and get it in the hands of the 99% to whom it properly belongs! Look what kind of job Washington has done for us, 14 trillion in debt! And what do we have to show for it, just a bunch of greedy rich people that keep getting richer and the poor getting poorer! This is not what our founding father had in mind, this is pathetic!
no calls for violence please or this website will be shit down
Washington is the right place to be and that is where the real problem is. There are not that many rich people for you to complain about! What is 1% of 360,000,000?
The problem is Washington!
The fish stinks from the head down! Start at the White House!
I think that Democrats are just as controlled by their propaganda machine.
Try walking up to some Liberals and tell them that abortion is pretty wrong.
You'd get the same response as if you walked up to some Republicans and said abortion is good.
The abortion issue is convoluted... As the daughter of a radical feminist back in the 1970's, I remember the rallying cry: Free abortion on demand! I disagree. You cannot split this into "pretty wrong" or "good". Abortion is an issue having to do with economics, class and reproductive rights.
And yes, the Dems are controlled by propaganda also.
Dear GarnetMoon --
The difference is quite stark....
By and large, the Democratic Party is solidly in favor of the average working class American Citizen..
By and large, the Republican Party is solidly in favor of the wealthiest American Citizen...
If you, or anyone else cannot see this, then I would suggest that you focus a little harder - they are the ones that encouraged 60 thousand US Factories ot move to China along with 6 million US jobs with it...
I don't know what makes you think I do not see this... The Dems are possibly more in favor of the average citizen, albeit within certain parameters, and the Repubs are for the wealthiest; no argument there. And yes, they both encouraged US factories to move to China ...
Back under Clinton, I would say there is some truth to this...
This past decade - definetly not!
The Democratic Party has clearly learned that Outsourcing was a terrible experiment...
You took my point beyond what I was attacking.
I'm saying that Dems and Repubs both take their common ground on the issue (one that is a very complicated issue) and don't budge and won't allow room for differing opinions in their ranks.
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Stiglitz and Krugman know the way