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Forum Post: POLL: Will the current Occupy movement and struggle against corruption and greed ultimately lead us into civil war?

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 9, 2011, 6:46 p.m. EST by TakingBackAmerica78 (94)
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93 Comments

93 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Skippy2 (485) 2 years ago

Artificial Labels...Liberal/Conservative, Libertarian/Socialist..are used by big gov't/media to keep us apart. I say we drop the labels, get together and vote out All incumbents in 2012. Whatever your political style, you want a better world for your children. Get rid of Professional Politicians.

[-] 2 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Best comment I've read so far! I agree 100%.

[-] 3 points by AnnArkey (31) 2 years ago

Please, no violence. Use Ghandi methods.

[-] 0 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Let's hope so. I have a feeling that it would be the elites who fire the first shot though if it comes to that.

[-] 1 points by AnnArkey (31) 2 years ago

The elites have lots of guns. Guns should be outlawed. I hope when OWS is in power that guns will be illegal.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

I'm a gun owner and I'm not an elite. I will use to defend myself and anybody in this movement if I had to. I think the world will never be rid of bad guys with guns so we need an equal number of good guys with guns to offset that. Just my opinion but it doesn't mean I don't respect yours. :)

[-] 1 points by AnnArkey (31) 2 years ago

Okay but it should be illegal to manufacture them too.

[-] 1 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

A gun or its ammunition are not hard to fabricate using standard machine shop equipment.

[-] 0 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

The elites have very few guns comparatively, almost none to everyone elses all. Why do you take the stance that guns should be outlawed?

[-] 2 points by AnnArkey (31) 2 years ago

Guns kill people and that is wrong. Passive resistance is the answer.

[-] 1 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

Cars kill more people than guns. Lot's more. You don't need guns to have violent resistance, in fact, having guns in no way effects being able to passively resist.

[-] 0 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

I apologize for prying but I would really like an actual reason, I fully respect your opinions and ideals, I've just heard the statement guns are bad and should be illegal without ever getting a solid reason.

[-] 2 points by AnnArkey (31) 2 years ago

Weapons are used to kill. Killing is wrong.

[-] 1 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

Okay, so weapons are used to kill, I'm gonna back up a second and assume you meant guns specifically, not weapons in general?

[-] 0 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

Specifically guns are used to kill and killing is wrong, therefore if any item is used to kill it is wrong and therefore should be illegal that's a little absurd so I'll go ahead and rephrase with anything that makes killing easy enough to happen accidentally or with little thought. I feel thats a fair interpretation of your criteria. correct?

[-] 1 points by Frizzle (520) 2 years ago

I'm sure you heard plenty of solid reasons. You just do not accept them.

[-] 2 points by FriendlyObserver (-37) 2 years ago

There has never been a successful revolution without violence

[-] 2 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

In a video recently uploaded on YouTube, an unidentified protester holding a video camera, filming a police line during the early hours of Thursday, Nov. 3, was shot with a rubber bullet or a beanbag round after repeatedly asking police officers: “Is this okay?”

[-] 0 points by SHITtheOWS (10) 2 years ago

Go Police officers!

[-] 2 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

Don't feed the Trolls

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

The police hate you.

[-] 2 points by rickMoss (435) 2 years ago

It's possible. It would be the worst thing that could happen to us now. We need a better strategy and plan of attack Wall Street is not the cause, it is a SYMPTOM!

JOIN THE REVOLUTION Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( www.revolution2.osixs.org )

FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM We don’t have to live like this. "Spread the News"

[-] 2 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

Here's the fact of the matter, there is not a victory condition that stems from a civil war. The two factions are almost completely geographically scattered about each other, door to door murder squads armed with whatever weapons they can find killing people based on belief. If you want a small scale corollary look towards kosovo, that's the basic model for this.

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[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

We are already extremely divided. They've gotten away with murder while we fight each other over their scraps! It's sad.

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[-] 2 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

You nailed it! They don't stand a chance if we all unite!

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[-] 2 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Haha it's great that you are so passionate. Just make sure your message is virtuous and you will do great things! Did you take the poll on my page?

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[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

keep hammering it home, global. maybe will sink in.
I posted here, but the threads drop off so fast.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/passive-resistance-tactics-for-protests/

[-] 1 points by IChowderDown (110) from Dallas, TX 2 years ago

Great site, lots of work. All these comments so far are correct. Many of us can have these flaws by our family upbringing and and government (don't want to say programs, but for now it fits). When we all go hungry we will unite, hopefully sooner and put our ego into the closet.

[-] 2 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

There already is a civil war. I just hope it doesn't get too violent.

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

There is NOT a civil war. It is a cultural war and every move being made today is simply making a certain silent majority VERY MAD because those moves are a very real threat to the very life, belief, and culture of that majority. You think you have identified the 99%. You are way off base. What you have identifed is a group of 99% that contains a majority that is fed up with both the top 1% and the balance of the 99% that would tear everything down in order to fulfill their vendetta against the 1%. We MAY sit by and let you wipe out the 1% but don't expect to have gained anything or any ground after you finish. You have not even touched the problem that is really irritating the ones' whose back you stand on to reach the 1%.

I have no ax to grind with you or anyone else until you make YOUR business MY business.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

I'm not certain that I follow you, but I want you to understand-- it isn't our purpose to impose anything on you or anyone else. We don't want to rule you. We don't want to be your leaders. We don't want your vote or your tax dollars. We just want the plutocrats to stay out of our (and everyone else's) lives.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Please give me an example of one of the plutocrats that you want to stay out of your lives.

Today we live in a society that defines all terms in their own way, so I may or may not agree with your last statment.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

You want a list?

http://www.occupytheboardroom.org/

People like this rule our country. Not even---They rule the planet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI

We aren't all just crazy Marxist Hippies. We are on your side brother.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Always loved George Carlin. Great humorist - great humor.

[-] 1 points by enmce (3) from город Ульяновск, Ульяновская область 2 years ago

Nope.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13536) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Yeee-yah . . . humm, I dunno . . .

First, if you want to know if there will be civil war, you have to ask repelicans six months or a year from now if they will persist in their steadfast denial that their entire economic philosophy is doomed. Because if they say yes to that, then it is a given that they believe they can maintain party unity, and the fabrications and myths that their dogma demands to maintain traction at the grass roots level.

At that point it will be clear that the repelicans are themselves intent on civil war, because victory through civil war will be the only way the repelican minority can maintain their rule.

As for the polls - don't we have enough of those already? This is like - the second one I have seen on this site.

I do object.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Lol, poll hater!! Polls are important, it shows where everybody stands.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13536) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Never mind the fact that these links tend to open up links to other places, incentivized with the promise of monetary gain, and completely distract and drain energy from this movement itself - forget all of that.

The plain fact is that researchers often conceal both the purpose of their research and its methodology - and this cuts to the core of the principle of I.N.F.O.R. M.E.D. C.O.N.S.E.N.T.

I mean, great, they would have you sign a consent form, and inform you that your isp will be noted for purposes of their research - but by whom and for what - that you don't, and you cannot, know, precisely because the research industry has engaged in a pattern of absolute deceit.

I'm not granting my consent for anything without clear and precise understanding of what it is I am consenting to.

Thanks tho.

If you want to know where I stand on something, or a variety of somethings, just ask.

http://zendogblog.net

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

It's on my own blog and I intend to post the results on this forum and reddit.com upon it's conclusion. Having the polling process be automated just helps me to keep the facts straight. I agree with everything you just said, though. There are always people looking to capitalize on these things. I'm just interested in where people stand in terms of this subject.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13536) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

To be fair, I didn't click on your poll - but there is one on the front page of this website, run by college kids - and I did click through some of that.

So I don't actually know if your poll has the same consent form or not.

And I don't mind gathering information regarding where we all stand. It can be very useful - to pressure the political establishment, or to identify misconceptions that may exist regarding issues of policy -

so, you know. The principle is fine. I've just been down a long hard road toward . . . umm . . . enlightenment?

BWA hahaha!

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Lol, mmkay. My poll has no consent form. Just an easy one click deal.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

lol Not very likely. The US military would be turned on the people and we wouldn't have a chance in Hell of winning that kind of war. However, there are other ways to win.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

The US military would be very divided if it were to go down. It's not like it would be all of the might of the U.S. military vs. the citizens.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the banking problem is not regional

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

It would very likely IF, before that happened, the draft wasn't surely going to be re-instated and fighting age humans sent to kill and be killed.

Besides, not only do we have a FUBAR government, we have a population problem with the USA having no means, unlike China and India, to regulate ourselves when it comes to baby making.

Whose war will be fought? That of those rich fat bastards that own the planet.

[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

No. The movement's not filled with many do'ers and fighting a war just smacks of effort.

[-] 1 points by Chowdown (1) 2 years ago

We The People have created democratic institutions over our history which must be utilized to insure we participate in the decision making that affects our lives for the next Seven Generations.

Play by the "rules" and change them as required for the general welfare, not the 1%.

Semper Fidelis & Treasure Life,

David

Marine Vietnam Veteran Former Community Organizer

[-] 1 points by AnnArkey (31) 2 years ago

No violence please. No hate.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Civil war is citizens against citizens. Revolution is citizens against government and economic power.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

The first civil war was citizen soldiers versus the Federal Soldiers. It was citizens vs. the Government.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Incorrect. The Confederate States of America was a government established in 1861 by secessionist states after Lincoln was elected on an anti-slavery platform.

Many soldiers in the south, formerly of the U.S. Army, formed the backbone of the Confederate Army, and they seized U.S. forts and munitions for CSA use.

[-] 1 points by frontierteg (137) from Kalamazoo Township, MI 2 years ago

no it wont.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Great comment ronjj. Let's hope it goes without a shot being fired. I fear that the elites have enough of a budget to incite violence in an attempt to bring about a conclusion to these protests. What then?

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

I don't get it.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

What makes you say that?

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Thank you!

[-] 0 points by steven2002 (363) 2 years ago

We can only hope.

[-] 0 points by hahaha (-41) 2 years ago

Hahaha! Man, I didn't think delusion could rise to this level.

[-] 0 points by SHITtheOWS (10) 2 years ago

I hope so. I can't wait to start blowing the brainless head off of you F.F. Turds. It will be like shooting waves of zombies in Modern Warfare II.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Hey Cleatus, go back to playing your video game and let the adults talk. Better yet, go read a book and educate yourself. Assuming you know what a book is.

[-] 1 points by SHITtheOWS (10) 2 years ago

Your being on this website, or even more, replying to my blog proves that you are a complete moron, loser, idiot..... You grow up FUCKER!

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

That doesn't even make sense. LOL

[-] 1 points by SHITtheOWS (10) 2 years ago

That's because you have the IQ of a rabbit. Ha Ha!

[-] 1 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

No, it's because it makes as much sense as a chihuahua carrying a hand grenade being chased by a parrot.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

I can guarantee you...I have a higher I.Q. than your whole family but that is beside the point. I don't understand how "Your being on this website, or even more, replying to my blog" proves that I'm a moron, loser or idiot. Just sayin, your shit is weak.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

I guess he gave up or it's past his beddy-by time.

[-] 0 points by foreverleft (233) 2 years ago

OWS is what, maybe 10,000 people? This question reminds me of the story about the flea that crawled up the elephant's leg with rape on his mind (a true OWSie) he reached his goal and just as he rammed his massive flea dick into her commodious vagina, a cocoanut dropped on her head and she grunted, he smirked, slapped her on the ass and said; "did I hurt ya baby"?

PM me if you need an explanation.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

Lol, I think the occupy movement is a bit bigger than 10,000 people when you get right down to it.

[-] 2 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

with modern communication, even just modified civilian hardware, and a little bit of planning 10,000 is overkill.

[-] 1 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

not for a civil war of course.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

More than likely, the next "civil war" or more likely the next moral war will be fought by the American taxpayer who has sat back and grown more and more angry as they have been subjected to this "raid on America" first in the form of taxes of their very life(work) and when there was opposition to that, by putting our country on the mortgage list by the unrelenting borrowing of money to finance our every whim, and now facing calls to STOP, they now put this run on the "super rich" for what little they have in assets. I truly believe that the taxpayers of America will finally say "enough is enough" and simply stop the stupidity of the out of control "liberalizm-me-mine-I want what I want and I want it now" mentality - and I think this will all be done without a shot being fired, thank you. It really won't be a civil war, it will be a cultural war, one of uncontrolled greed at all levels against those that simply say the battle is over we no longer have anyone for you to rape and pillage.

[-] 2 points by wouldstronglypreferjustice (35) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

excellent.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

Worried about spending? http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

Why did we invade Iraq?

To protect American from Saddam's Nuclear Weapons?

Why are we paying for military bases in Germany (and more than 700 other bases in 130+ countries)? To protect them from what? The Soviet Union? Why is it even our job to protect them anymore?

I submit to you this: Our "defense" budget, doesn't actually have any thing to do with defense. We are maintaining an expansive overseas empire, and waging illegal wars of aggression and conquest. It is costing us trillions of dollars (to say nothing of the countless millions of lives that have been lost and families destroyed.)

And it actually decreases our security to do so.

You sound like the type of person who likes the "founding fathers" a whole bunch. What was it that Washington said about foreign entanglements?

Using violence and war to further the business interests of the 1% is bankrupting us.

If you are concerned about spending then join us

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I was interested in your 5th paragraph until you left me in thin air. There must be more to the story than "wars of aggression and conquest"..... why no reason, or example. What you have actually written is your personal opinion and have not backed up your statements with any reasonable arguments.

If that is all there is ..... what more can I say.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

Why does any empire? Conquest is its own reason. Power, trade, trade-routes, resources, control of markets, strategic posture, cheap labor, proximity to enemies etc.

I didn't think that was really controversial. History pretty solidly supports this.

It also shows that it must all fall down eventually.

I just hope we can go the path of the British empire and manage our decline in phases. I'd rather we not collapse like Rome or the USSR.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

And for those of you who think that somehow only republicans do this, please pull your head out of the sand, Democrats do this with just as much severity/frequency:

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_12807.shtml

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I think that history does support your claims in some instances. I would question whether it applies to all and especially to the USA.

We "invaded" a lot of countries over the years, but I do not see your conquest theory in relation to that invaded country. We "invaded" France, we "invaded" Japan, we "invaded" Korea, we "invaded" Iraq, we "invaded" Germany. Did we invade any country for the purpose of taking over their country in a financial, political, resources, people, land or other way? You would have to classify the USA as an empire to validate your arguments - can you do that? You can argue that our presence in Germany, Japan etc may no longer be necessary - but it would, in my opinion, be very difficult to justify that as an occupation or conquest in any sense of the word as you describe in your post. If you mean that we should pull our tenacles of power from countries around the world - maybe you would have more of an argument. We are in the process of doing that today in Iraq - no?? Are we really giving up our conquest in this decline you mention??

Please explain how LG and KIA MOTORS in any way prove your argument that we invaded Korea for the purpose of conquest?? If you base your argument on financial, natural, or other resources you have a lot ot prove.

[-] -1 points by steven2002 (363) 2 years ago

We hope so

[-] -1 points by gr57 (457) 2 years ago

No. First off, with no leader and only twinkle fingers to vote, trying to successede would be pretty hard for them. Secondly, if the 99%* ever did, the other 99.9% of America would see to it that it would end in minutes

[-] 2 points by gestopomilly (497) 2 years ago

i dont know, when people get really broke.. they have no incentive to play by the rules any longer. usually it is the uneducated and easily controlled that are poor. this time.. most of the people going broke are educated and intelligent and may not be able to see any other way of getting the point across. and you must remember that the ones enforcing the law are among the ones going broke. i mean.. there is not going to be a stock broker or ceo standing there in riot gear. and most military guys will not actually kill a fellow american so .. it could happen

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

No I think the elite have the money to hire hordes of thugs. They're doing it now to infiltrate the protests. I feel that violent skirmishes are certainly possible. It will become more obvious as people get more desperate.

[-] 0 points by gr57 (457) 2 years ago

A hell of a lot of Americans lined up to kill each other durring the actual Civil War.

[-] 1 points by gestopomilly (497) 2 years ago

if i remember correctly.. isnt this what happened in africa an other places when the people got sick of the british rich people running everything? it wasnt a real civil war. just the poor against the rich

[-] 1 points by thestruin (83) 2 years ago

With a lot of nationalism too, essentially the native populations had this crazy idea that they had a right to their countries destiny. Nut-jobs, I tell ya.

[-] 1 points by TakingBackAmerica78 (94) 2 years ago

True that!

[-] -1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

No. The real 99 percent won't put up with children playing like adults. It will lead to a time out.