Forum Post: Politicians Out! Experts In!
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 16, 2011, 9:30 a.m. EST by reason321
(43)
from West Windsor, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Politicians Out! Experts In!
Now we all agree that America has many problems, which are listed in numerous articles. However, all these listed problems are leaves on the tree. The root of the tree is that America has become a “politician country”. All levels of governments are totally controlled by politicians. Expert’s inputs, scientific reasoning and facts are ignored or distorted in decision and policy making process . Even companies are managed by politicians. The famous example is that Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple by politicians, and those politicians controlled Apple and took Apple close to bankruptcy.
Politicians don’t have subject mater expertise to make right decisions and policies. Because of many wrong decisions made by the incompetent politicians, we are in today’s turmoil. This is not just US problem, it is Europe’s problem too. Just look at Greece and Italy.
Politicians don’t have subject mater expertise to make sound judgment. They are easily influenced by various special interest groups. This is why lobbying business is flourishing inside the belt way (Just ask Wall Street firms how many lobbyists they hire and how much money they spend on lobbying).
How many nonsenses we have heard in Washington about our energy policy? How many nonsenses we have heard in Washington about our education policy? How many nonsenses we have heard in Washington about our economic policy? How many nonsenses we have heard in Washington about our foreign policy? How many nonsenses we have heard in Washington about global warming and our environment protection policy? How many nonsenses we have heard in Washington about military strategies?
How can our country become better when politicians who are in charge have such nonsenses? How can our country sustain our leadership in the world when politicians who are in charge always come out humiliating ideas and policies?
I am not discounting importance of communication and negotiation skills in societies. However, these skills are secondary to domain expertise. Otherwise, people who are in power will communicate and negotiate based on bad judgment and wrong decisions. This is exactly what’s happening in Washington.
US has the best experts in the world on all aspects of human societies. US has the best infrastructure in the world to collect information and data which is essential for decision making.
We CAN design a new political system in which decisions and policies are made by experts based on solid information, instead of non-experts based on biased views of people who have money with distorted data.
We CAN design a new political system which is capable to make optimal policies and decisions to maximize well being for every one.
We CAN design a new political system for other countries to envy and learn in next two hundred years.
Politicians Out! Experts In!
i always liked the cool head on Elizabeth Warren. I even formatted the message in the least bies site i know.
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Warren-Defends-Consumer-Financial-Protection-Bureau/10737420228-1/
Yes! I agree!
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
Or this -
http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
The Venus Project seems to far to reach. There are things we can change now to make difference.
It's a long term goal. It seems that we are already moving towards that kind of system anyway with less people working, more entitlements, increasing automation. Just think how different this country looked a century ago and imagine how it will look a century from now.
I don't think there are many things that we could do now. The system is corrupt to the core. The question seems to be: reform or revolution? I don't see how a country that is completely ran by big business can be reformed. Too much corruption.
We can start the change within current system. For example, the president should be replaced with a committee which members are experts in different areas. We will still have the white house. It only needs to be expanded a little bit to accommodate more people.
In last 5000 years, countries have been always ruled by one person, who used to be called king, and now is called president. A king or a president is an icon of a hierarchical society. If we want to get rid of this backward hierarchical system, eliminating the position of president is first step.
Not a bad idea.
A technocracy? It is a failure; as we saw with the Soviet Union, technocracy is just as susceptible to incompetence and corruption as a democracy influenced by big business. Our policy makers have experts that give them the ability to make informed decisions, but as long as corporate money can influence our politics then those experts are meaningless. To completely change our system of government is a timely, costly, dangerous, and, in my view, unnecessary solution to our problems. We simply need to get money out of our politics.
Soviet Union is worse than US when talking about experts.
I am not saying there is no expert inputs in US policy making process at all. However, it is far from enough given the country has become so complex over time. Yes, there is corruption in our political system, but it is not the major factor. There are hundred of thousands decisions made in all level of governments every day. I believe most of the time the decision makers have good intention. However, they cannot get to the optimal decisions because they are politicians who don't know what are optimal decisions, and they cannot separate qualified experts from unqualified experts. Don't be fooled by the talking of strategies, visions, etc.. It it those bottom lines small decisions which eventually determines the "big" decisions/policies. We need experts to work on every step, big or small, so that we can get our future back.
I disagree, also our democracy was great before the rise of big business in the late 19th century. It was after that we had things like the depression, economic inequality, and our politics hijacked. If we can just remove the money factor, I believe our leadership can be effective again. I also worry that such a dramatic overhaul of our political system would have dire social and economic complications during the transition period.
The current system was established 224 years. In 1787, there was no computer, there was no social welfare, the literacy level was low, and the social and economic structure was much simpler. It is time to upgrade. This is evolution, not revolution. We don't need to destroy our computers when we upgrade to better OS.
Still, I don't think it requires a change to our system of government.
It is really difficult to get money out of the current political system. Do you know any other countries which are successful on this?
A valid point, but neither are their ones with experts instead I'd politicians
This is why all countries will run into trouble sooner or later, like France, Spain, Italy, Greece, ...
We now have market-driven politics, resulting from the repeal of the fairness doctrine under Reagan. TV and radio were duller, but actually reasonably balanced until then. It's just another type of deregulation, and it has given us gridlock and power to the loudest.
you have a lot of good insights. were those decisions/policies in Reagan era made for people who gave money to Reagan/Republican? do you think Greece and Italy are in the same boat as US?
I don't know enough about Greece and Italy to make a reasonable comment. I can only speak to my recollection of radio and TV under the fairness doctrine, and compare it to what I see now.
The popularity of strident radio and TV has certainly been moving the country to the right since that change. I have a deep hope that OWS will produce a long-lasting balance.
They just had a survey about news channel impact to people. We should have a law banning news media spreading biased views/facts. I know it is hard to make judgment sometime. But there is really bad stuff there.
You're right. And there is a disregard of scientific information that is scary. When people insist that scientific results must be absolute and perfect or they can be disregarded in favor of anyone's odd opinion, we're in trouble.
Reality contains more questions and probability than immutable laws.
This is exactly why we should let experts in charge, and it should not be just one expert in each field. There should be multiple experts from each field, and the experts are totally independent to each other. They can create balance on facts.
In all seriousness I would suggest that OWS NYC to consider East River park this weekend and Fox News 1211 Avenue of the Americans for Monday morning. Bring only your intellect.
Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.
Questions and Answers: (April asked questions, Reason321 gave answers)
April:
Alan Greenspan was considered an expert. He said there was no housing bubble. I'm not exactly disagreeing with you, I'm just sayin'. What would your ideal new "political system" look like?
reason321:
It is a very complex process to set up a right political system. This should be designed by experts who are specialized in organization design, law, politics, social science, economics, etc.
There are a few obvious things to be eliminated. For example, position of the president. It is impossible for one person to be an expert on all aspects of a country. And it is a bad idea to bet future of hundred of millions people on one person. The president should be replaced with a committee which members are experts in different areas. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
Peacedriver:
Great Idea!
April:
"Set a up a right political process" ? I think thats already been done. By Our Founding Fathers.
reason321:
224 years is long time. In 1787, there was no computer, there was no social welfare, the literacy level was low, and the social and economic structure was much simpler. It is time to upgrade.
April:
I'll stick with the 1.0 version thanks.
reason321:
The difference between 1.0 and 2.0 is not as much as you think. We will continue to have an executive branch. We only replace the president with an executive committee. We will still have congress, only replace politicians with experts. Nothing needs to be changed on the Judicial branch, which is the only one with appropriate experts.
April:
What would you like to see the experts do differently in a 2.0 version?
reason321:
Nothing fancy. Just that the decisions and policies will be much more optimal and efficient than what we have today. Similar to any well performing organizations, their visions are set right, their decisions are made correct, and their executions are efficient with high quality. I am not saying we will get things done in perfect ways (we all know there are no perfect things in this world). But decisions made by experts with solid data support are much better than the ones made by politicians (Iraq war, bad eduction policies ....).
April:
But politicians use experts today, to aide them in making their decisions, no?
Reason321:
If what you said is true, why we saw so many wrong decisions and bad policies?
+1 for the new despotic experts! Everyone know that experts can't be evil...
http://www.libertyforlife.com/eye-openers/lincoln-enslaved-world.html
This link is irrelevant.
Form Grand Juries
It is the only way the criminals will ever be brought to trail.
It's only irrelevant if you don't understand what has taken place.
This is it, this is our solution.
Sure, absolutely. How do we get there?
http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
We need to get people buy-in first. According to the feedback, some people still believe politicians are better than experts on decision making.
Doctors are not happy, they are mostly middle class who owe for the rest their life in student loans. The news used to always have scientist on giving there sides of the story... Now its all politician opinions. It seems most scientist are paid to keep quiet by the special interest & lobbying groups.Engineers...Please..... New Orleans is in the same danger it was in before Katrina! Some say Congress should be volunteers made up of all different kinds of people, experts, professors, ect. It seems, until we get BIG money out of politics nothing will ever change!
New Orleans would be in much better shape if decisions were made by experts.
Experts are only experts because they work in their field, and how many experts of the past have been discredited? most of them
If you get ill, do you go to see a doctor or a politician?
Alan Greenspan was considered an expert. He said there was no housing bubble. I'm not exactly disagreeing with you, I'm just sayin'.
What would your ideal new "political system" look like?
It is a very complex process to set up a right political system. This should be designed by experts who are specialized in organization design, law, politics, social science, economics, etc.
There are a few obvious things to be eliminated. For example, position of the president. It is impossible for one person to be an expert on all aspects of a country. And it is a bad idea to bet future of hundred of millions people on one person. The president should be replaced with a committee which members are experts in different areas.
Great Idea!
"Set a up a right political process" ? I think thats already been done. By Our Founding Fathers.
224 years is long time. In 1787, there was no computer, there was no social welfare, the literacy level was low, and the social and economic structure was much simpler. It is time to upgrade.
I'll stick with the 1.0 version thanks.
The difference between 1.0 and 2.0 is not as much as you think. We will continue to have an executive branch. We only replace the president with an executive committee. We will still have congress, only replace politicians with experts. Nothing needs to be changed on the Judicial branch, which is the only one with appropriate experts.
What would you like to see the experts do differently in a 2.0 version?
Nothing fancy. Just that the decisions and policies will be much more optimal and efficient than what we have today. Similar to any well performing organizations, their visions are set right, their decisions are made correct, and their executions are efficient with high quality. I am not saying we will get things done in perfect ways (we all know there are no perfect things in this world). But decisions made by experts with solid data support are much better than the ones made by politicians (Iraq war, bad eduction policies ....).
But politicians use experts today, to aide them in making their decisions, no?
If what you said is true, why we saw so many wrong decisions and bad policies?
Because there is money overrunning the political process. Politicians have become corrupted by the money in the process. Money speaks too loudly. So while they consult experts in their decision making process, they may not/don't always heed that advice, but rather the monied interest that have gotten them elected, and will contribute to their re-election.
There is actually a word for it - it is called kleptocracy - 1.A corrupt and dishonest government
Money has corrupted our political process. So we have to fix the political process to get the money out. So that we can all have fair and equal representation in government. Currently the 1% buys their representation. 99% are left with the scraps.
You point to another major issue in our political system, the election process. Why we voters (you, I , and 99% of others) voted for these irresponsible people year over year?
Yes, we voted them, but they act in the interest of the monied influence, the 1%, who funded them. Hence the wrong decisions and bad policies. One could argue, the results are - good policies for the 1%, bad policies for society as a whole.
Why don't we 99% vote for the ones who don't get money from the 1%?
Because that is not how the corrupted political system works. It is driven by money. The only Pres. candidate that I know of that does not take special interest money is Gov. Buddy Roemer. And hardly anybody know him because he is not part of the Republican money machine. They won't even let him in the debates.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/
Our political system requires money to be part of election process. The candidates need money to travel, organize events, print materials, etc..
Have you seen this site reason?
http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
Like it. thank you.
[Removed]
Um. No we can't. Those people will simply turn into politicians. Scientists et al are subject to human nature just like anyone else.
Vote the Dimwits out of office! It will be the best thing America has ever done.
[Removed]
So, you want to pull the best doctors, scientists, and engineers away from doing what they are good at, and make them Members of Congress, so they can spend their time dealing with the mundane issues of governing?
yes. they will feel honored to do this if they are good citizens (and we don't want bad ones to govern anyway)
dream on.
It is not dream. Steven Chu, who won Nobel price, is working as a government employee.
So is Barak Obama!
Can you elaborate your point?
Just that he's also a Nobel prize winner (Peace!) and a government employee.
He shoots. He scores!
Name the "experts".
there are few experts in Washington. it is difficult to find them.
I can't wait to turn over my future to experts.
Technocracy Movement early 20th century -A system of society according to which government is controlled by scientists, engineers, and other expert. A government that is against capitalism.
When people were slaved by the idea of worshiping kings and queens, what do you expect? Even today, many people still have same mentality.
Have you read about what happening in Italy today.
will appreciate if you share your view about it.