Forum Post: Please Help: A call for your ideas!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 3:35 p.m. EST by mwagshol
(120)
from Seattle, WA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I would like this post to initiate a constructive, intelligent discussion with bipartisan voices creating actual solutions to the problem at hand.
No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, it is clear that this movement and others like it, such as the initial Tea Party (http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/kyjo2/an_open_letter_and_warning_from_a_former_tea/), were sparked by an anger over the corruption and collusion within our government from special interests.
While we all have differing opinions on various political issues, now is the time to temporarily put them aside in order to unite our minds in defining solutions to this systematic and structural dilemma that results in all of our political power being diverted in the hands of a few.
This is my Demand and I make it to you:
Provide three changes you would have implemented into our political structure that are thoroughly defined, winnable through a peaceful action, would garner large support, and most importantly would have the greatest initial impact on the problem of our government's corruption.
Again, I implore those of you from all across the political spectrum to get involved in this discussion and have your voice heard!
"United we stand, Divided we fall. This is a movement for us All!"
I have more than 3. If I can I'll make them 3 at a time. 1) Propose a constitutional ammendment overturning the Supreme Court's recent ruling making it illegal to make any contribution of any kind to an elected official or an officially declared candidate. 2) Standardize the electoral process to consist of offficial debates only,ban political commercials from radio and telivision. Use public funds to provide for traveling expences for candidates,set a date for one year prior to an election for an official declaration of candidacy. 3)Implement local production rules for any buisness selling their product in the United States. If a company wants to sell products here,they make them here with US workers. Also foreign owned companies in the US and US companies currently outsourcing labor should be exempted to prevent major disruptions here and abroad,however future foriegn ownership of companies in the US should be banned and US companies outsourcing labor must pay those employees a global minimum wage and furthur outsourcing should be outlawed. If they choose to base their buisness elsewhere they can not sell thier product in the US.
Please don't be distracted by typos,grammer etc. This is all stream of conscious for me, I have more where this comes from.
Below average. Point 3 is a fail.
Very good.
Before you can have any of these ideas to be even discussed you need to change the basic structure of our elections and term limits etc.
We have already created the Congress and Senate Reform Act 2012 which will set us on the path to true representative government. This is what needs to change FIRST. Take the money out of elections and politics. You can read all the details of this act at http://www.everything4lessstore.com/congressreformact.htm
This is Phase 1 and this is what everyones message should be about getting enacted. All these other groups getting involved seem to have their own agenda and is getting away from the one true issue and that is we the 99% have not and are not being represented. Our government and politicians are being controlled by the rich 1% and this needs to end. Please pass this info along and get word to the media that this is our initial demand for change otherwise all these other issues will just get lost in the banter and maybe that is what the media wants. Keep the message simple and straight forward as our act proposes. Peace.
I don't agree with #1 term limits and #13 political parties will not be allowed
No more lobbyists. PERIOD. Isn't that what the CEO's get paid the big bucks for? If they want to change something let them work for it, and manditory they must be present to speak their case. and ABSOLUTLY no money paid to our elected rep's that is just flat out conflict of interest and I still have no clue why this is able to even happen without arrests! (This is against the law for a smaller gov't level.) Example: Go pay your mayor under the table to let you run a bar w/o a liquer license. Somebody's goin' to jail!!
All politicans must abide by the same laws they have made for us. I.E. no more sweet healthcare plan paid for by the tax payers...OBAMACARE for them too. NO MORE sweet retirement plan paid for by the tax payers Social security it is for them too. (There are many more you get the idea) and YES they must ask us to vote if they should get a raise!!! My god we have the foxes guarding the hen house! It sould be an honor to serve your country you really should have no retirement from it, your done go home. a simple definition for this is simply: Congress shall pass no law or plan over the people that does noot apply to them. Period. Simple!
Even if you are doing ok right now and have savings and health ins. you know deep down you are just 1 major medical emergency away from destitude.
We all have local hospitals why does it have to be so complicated? why don't we simply choose a hospital we like in our area, and based on income, we pay that hospital a FAIR monthly fee to cover operating costs. More than likely if something happens you will be in your local area and go to your chosen hospital. If you do happen to be travelling and go to another hospital they will just bill your hospital and prices will not be inflated because of Insurance companies (the hospital can operate like a real business does with real prices). IE. 80.00 for a "mucus control device" oh, sorry I mean box of tissues! I could point out the health insurance scam but that is for another time. My point here is when your primary hospital was billed for say a broken leg while you were travelling and if that hospital was pulling a fast one and put a bunch of bogus Sht on the bill they would immeadiately be called out on it because the hospitals know their sht and aren't some desk jockey for the middle man! anyway most of the billers and coders would be hired by the hospitals any way so many jobs would be spared..
Actually I think I will give an example of the health insurance scam. This is a true story.
I do not have health insurance, I needed a back x-ray . My non-insured rate was 25.00 per x-ray I needed 4. = $100.00
My friend Jane need 2 back x-rays around the same time. she pays 850.00 p/month for insurance 80/20 and deductible was already paid for the year so she just had to pay 20%. Her bill was 160.00!! The insurance company was billed by doc 800.00 for 2 xrays!!! her 20% to pay was 160.00 for 2!! Now remember I had 4 for 100.00!! I told her to call and find out WTF! She was told the by the insuramce company "we" pay nothing for these x-rays. NOTHING! so the DOC makes sure he gets quadruple!!!
WE DON'T NEED TO BE FORCED TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE FROM PRIVATE COMAPNIES MR. PRESIDENT WE NEEDED HEALTH CARE not HEALTH INSURANCE.......THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!
P.S. I only gave 3 Ideas but there are way more than 3 things broke!!!
They don't have to go , just change.
We need Medicare for All, from birth to grave. Every American should have basic health coverage, which we all pay for.
Now, if anyone wants premium coverages, the insurance companies can step up and sell it to them.
The super committee is meeting now and the insurance lobbyists are there I force. We need to get the message to the people who are drafting the laws and let them know what we want. They are working fast. we need to know what they are doing before legislation gets passed.
I have more than 3. If I can I'll make them 3 at a time. 1) Propose a constitutional ammendment overturning the Supreme Court's recent ruling making it illegal to make any contribution of any kind to an elected official or an officially declared candidate. 2) Standardize the electoral process to consist of offficial debates only,ban political commercials from radio and telivision. Use public funds to provide for traveling expences for candidates,set a date for one year prior to an election for an official declaration of candidacy. 3)Implement local production rules for any buisness selling their product in the United States. If a company wants to sell products here,they make them here with US workers. Also foreign owned companies in the US and US companies currently outsourcing labor should be exempted to prevent major disruptions here and abroad,however future foriegn ownership of companies in the US should be banned and US companies outsourcing labor must pay those employees a global minimum wage and furthur outsourcing should be outlawed. If they choose to base their buisness elsewhere they can not sell thier product in the US.
Please don't be distracted by typos,grammer etc. This is all stream of conscious for me, I have more where this comes from.
Before you can have any of these ideas to be even discussed you need to change the basic structure of our elections and term limits etc.
We have already created the Congress and Senate Reform Act 2012 which will set us on the path to true representative government. This is what needs to change FIRST. Take the money out of elections and politics. You can read all the details of this act at http://www.everything4lessstore.com/congressreformact.htm
This is Phase 1 and this is what everyones message should be about getting enacted. All these other groups getting involved seem to have their own agenda and is getting away from the one true issue and that is we the 99% have not and are not being represented. Our government and politicians are being controlled by the rich 1% and this needs to end. Please pass this info along and get word to the media that this is our initial demand for change otherwise all these other issues will just get lost in the banter and maybe that is what the media wants. Keep the message simple and straight forward as our act proposes. Peace.
Reinstate Glass-Steagall, End the FED, and Stop the looting and start prosecuting!
Yes!
Before you can have any of these ideas to be even discussed you need to change the basic structure of our elections and term limits etc.
We have already created the Congress and Senate Reform Act 2012 which will set us on the path to true representative government. This is what needs to change FIRST. Take the money out of elections and politics. You can read all the details of this act at http://www.everything4lessstore.com/congressreformact.htm
This is Phase 1 and this is what everyones message should be about getting enacted. All these other groups getting involved seem to have their own agenda and is getting away from the one true issue and that is we the 99% have not and are not being represented. Our government and politicians are being controlled by the rich 1% and this needs to end. Please pass this info along and get word to the media that this is our initial demand for change otherwise all these other issues will just get lost in the banter and maybe that is what the media wants. Keep the message simple and straight forward as our act proposes. Peace.
All of the problems that we are experiencing in this country can be remedied if we remember that we can choose. If you're like me and think that too many jobs were shipped to China too fast , then try to proactively manage your expenses to not support the problem. I have nothing against China, but we really opened the valve too far (whether it be from business legislation or labor rates or currency rates, etc). The problem can be remedied via the masses. Maybe now is the time for a good independent candidate with no political background or affiliation to lobbyists. We need our governmental officials to begin making decisions again 'for the people'. And if they can't do it maybe we need to elect someone is 'of the people' that will do it.
Methinks that after 60+ years of fighting the same ignorance as you brave citizens are confronting I've learned that to defeat the crooked bankers and politicians with a democratic movement we must not allow blind politicians, greedy bankers or other misguided souls to co-opt our hard work. Probably the most difficult obstacle to overcome is people who deal in Faith. The glaring weakness in Faith, blind,religious or otherwise is that Faith being synonymous with Belief the Faithful know not if what they Believe is True or False. Pres. Obama has a Cabinet Office that deals in Faith. The only thing that will Truly unite humanity is to always deal in the TRUTH and that is what the Arab Spring, Occupy Wall Street and other such groups are all about. Every human being is born with the inherited ability to determine what is True and what is False. But this gift was long ago co-opted by the money changers, war mongers and upside-down thinkers who've left Humanity the daunting task of Uniting The World in Truth and save us from this fast track to Perdition we are on. Guerro
I'm sure everyone knows my idea as highlighted on www.theOnlineGovernment.org. Basically - leverage the existing flaws and corruptions of the system we to put the power back into the hands of everyday people. From there, use technology to guage the will of the people and most likely they will want a reduced role of lobbyists etc.
Change the monetary sistem , no more printed money of nothing. No more money controled by politicians.
http://p2pfoundation.net/Energy-Backed_Currencies
http://www.energybackedmoney.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_currency
Make money to be value of what representes, energy, comodities...
Not Gold, is not usefull to go back to gold, humans mas progress to a new monetary sistem. We whent to a much fixed Gold, standart... that only take out to much resurce to take it out from earth, to a FIAT currency that is backup of nothing.... we must go to a mid term.... a paper money that is back up of something usefull like energy, food...
Lobby Reform! Absolutely.
Lobbyists should be limited to providing information about problems, issues, and proposed legislation. Period!!
Nobody is lobbying for the common man.
Our so-called democracy has become a sham because elected officials do not listen to the common man. Reason: $$$$
People, what is your immediate need? One word: jobs. Focus on it, please
One: Pass a "Corporate Personhood" amendment to the constitution stating that no business or corporate entity shall be considered a citizen with regard to the rights conveyed by that document. Two: Break up the "too big to fail" institutions by reinstituting Glass-Steagal. Three: Pass public campaign financing legislation that prohibits private money of any kind in National elections
One: Pass a "Corporate Personhood" amendment to the constitution stating that no business or corporate entity shall be considered a citizen with regard to the rights conveyed by that document. Two: Break up the "too big to fail" institutions by reinstituting Glass-Steagal. Three: Pass public campaign financing legislation that prohibits private money of any kind in National elections
Propose corporate tax credits for businesses which hire. If a company X of a certain revenue X hires a number of incremental employees Y amounting to Z in salaries or wages for this fiscal year, then it gets a tax credit of W for this year. Continue this for 10 years. GE paid next to nothing in taxes last year, I would not have any beef with this if they also hired 100,000 incremental workers in the US at the same time.
My suggestion could be done without the need for political change:
Start a business or invest in a business that is Employee owned and the follows the following principles:
-Grow. Don't sit on your profits, don't pay yourselves huge wages if you are profitable, pay yourselves a reasonable wage and spend the rest investing in other Employee owned businesses or growing your own business.
-Divide (Reproduce). If you get too big to have a truly democratic work place then divide into two separate companies or work groups. Those two groups can still work collaboratively, but don't let your size limit your growth, but don't let your growth allow you to become monolithic.
-Authority flows up not down. If you collaborate with other companies or work groups and you find yourself forming complex management structures, remember one simple thing, authority flows up. Each group should elect representatives from within to collaborate outward. If there is a management group it should not be piercing the wholeness of the groups it manages by sending managers downward, ever. This allows collaborative structures as complex as needed without sacrificing the individual identity or cooperative nature of any given work-group/company.
If we create and invest in more companies that follow this principle then we can eliminate the kind of monolithic power that exists in authority down corporate structures today.
(my original post: http://occupywallst.org/forum/theory-community-not-communism/)
Reform the voting system so that a party that gets 20% of the votes gets 20% of the seats in the legislature
Prohibit monetary donations to politicians and parties. Finance elections with tax money, as most other advanced countries do
Ban political commercials
The super committee is meeting now, and the lobbyists are in force. The people need to get to them and let them know what we want.
Post the laws, bills, etc. being presented to Congress. Print them, state them, whatever, but get them to the people. Let them see what is being passed by our "representatives". See how our government acts daily to support corporations, banks, the wealthy, and themselves. This way OWS can help make meaningful changes.
Some basic ideas, grouped by section:
I-Addressing current and past Wall Street misbehavior:
Civil suits by DOJ against all the main investment banks, criminal investigations against any and all higher-ups at these banks. Penalties to include confiscation of all assets, physical and otherwise.
II-Preventing further Wall Street misbehavior:
Restoration of Depression-era bank legislation beginning with Glass-Steagall. Breaking up of all financial conglomerates; each division becomes an independent company with a new CEO, directors, etc. Compensation limits on financial higher-ups, including the end of golden parachutes. Federal regulation of the derivatives market, either ban CDOs outright or subject them to special scrutiny. Expand fraud legislation to include conflicts of interest; no more short-selling someone whom you're financing or advising, no more staple financing or similar practices. Full disclosure of asset portfolios to federal regulators, regulators to retain independent analysts to rate portfolio elements and assign value to overall portfolio. Leveraging regulations; the ratio of exotic assets (including but not limited to CDOs) to hard cash capped at 5 to 1. Redesignate PACs, political organizations, etc. as for-profit corproations and regulate them as such. Eliminate the 501(c)(4)designation and redesignate its current members to for-profit institutions.
III-Tax reform
Uncap the FICA; all income subject to Social Security and Medicare taxation, not just the first $106,000. New income tax brackets starting at $250,000 annual income, $500,000 annual income, and $1,000,000 annual income, taxed at 45%, 55%, and 65% respectively. Treat capital gains as monetary income and tax it accordingly. Restore the estate tax for all estates/trust funds/portfolios over $1 million in value and set it to 70% Set tariffs on all imported goods in order to give companies an impetus to begin manufacturing in America. Restructure the corporate tax code and close as many loopholes in the process as possible.
IV-Mortgage relief:
Funds obtained through procedures outlined in Section I against financial conglomerates used to take all struggling mortgages out of the hands of the banks. Fannie and Freddie unwound and replaced by a new government loan/mortgage agency with entirely new staff. The new agency takes struggling mortgages and refinances them in such a manner that homeowners can reasonably expect to pay the balances on time. In cases where that is clearly not possible (i.e. both adults in household unemployed), the agency forgives the mortgage.
V-Student loan relief:
Same process for student loans as for mortgages. In order to attract talent to the federal government, set up a sponsorship program: high-performing students in qualifying programs of study will have their education paid for by Uncle Sam in return for five years' service in the government agency corresponding to their area of study (i.e. economics and finance majors would do their time in the Fed or in financial regulatory agencies).
VI-Unemployment relief:
Use the funds garnered through tax reform as per Section III to begin actual projects that put people to work. No disbursement of the money to states, all relief-eligible projects to be initiated and overseen at the federal level. All parts for infrastructure projects to be obtained in America (i.e. a bridge replacement would only purchase steel manufactured in a plant in America). Project staff (excluding federal overseers) to be exclusively hired from the unemployed (where it is possible to find unemployed people with the necessary qualifications), all the way from the construction worker to the project manager.
VII-Campaign finance reform
Ban all campaign contributions by corporations, for-profit or otherwise. Ban group contributions in general. Cap donations by individuals at $500 per candidate. Personal and family wealth disallowed: you may "donate" up to $500 to yourself and each family member over 18 may donate up to $500 to you, but other than that nothing. Cap total donations at $100 million. Provide a base public fund from tax dollars to each candidate to work from.
VIII-Lobbying reform
Create an open forum setting in which all interest groups and/or citizens may express their views. All open forum sessions to be taped, and both tapes and transcripts to be made publicly available on paper and on the Internet within 24 hours of such a session. Forbid access to politicians by interest groups and their representatives outside the open forum. Forbid any and all gifts from interest group representatives to politicians. Forbid regulators from working at corporations in the field they were responsible for overseeing for twenty years from end of time in office. Forbid any politician from taking private-sector lobbying or consulting employment for five years from the end of their term. Apply the same rules to lobbyists wishing to enter politics (five year cooldown period, twenty if you want to oversee the same field your company worked in).
Glass-Steagall. That would have prevented the banking crisis.
I can only offer one, but I think it's good and it doesn't require changes to political structure!
1) Vote With Your Dollars
Companies and bank sway to our collective actions. Support businesses that invest in America, for example. Purchase domestically made products. If, collectively, we take our money to ONLY businesses that don't outsource their labor, guess what other companies will do? We regulate business practices everyday, with every dollar.
The challenge is staying informed on what businesses are actually doing. To this extent, perhaps the government can step in and force them to be transparent about their labor practices, environmental policies, executive bonuses, etc.
Krugman and Stiglitz know the way
Krugman and Stglitz know the way
Krugman and Stiglitz know the way
1.-Senators and Representatives should be elected only for a maximum of 2 TERMS, so they don't become friends with the "Lobby Corporation". 2.-Senators and Representatives should not be allowed to become
lobbysts. 3.- Congress should NEVER EVER pass a law, amendment, etc. without READING IT!!!
No more lobbyists. PERIOD. Isn't that what the CEO's get paid the big bucks for? If they want to change something let them work for it, and manditory they must be present to speak their case. and ABSOLUTLY no money paid to our elected rep's that is just flat out conflict of interest and I still have no clue why this is able to even happen without arrests! (This is against the law for a smaller gov't level.) Example: Go pay your mayor under the table to let you run a bar w/o a liquer license. Somebody's goin' to jail!!
All politicans must abide by the same laws they have made for us. I.E. no more sweet healthcare plan paid for by the tax payers...OBAMACARE for them too. NO MORE sweet retirement plan paid for by the tax payers Social security it is for them too. (There are many more you get the idea) and YES they must ask us to vote if they should get a raise!!! My god we have the foxes guarding the hen house! It sould be an honor to serve your country you really should have no retirement from it, your done go home. a simple definition for this is simply: Congress shall pass no law or plan over the people that does noot apply to them. Period. Simple!
Even if you are doing ok right now and have savings and health ins. you know deep down you are just 1 major medical emergency away from destitude.
We all have local hospitals why does it have to be so complicated? why don't we simply choose a hospital we like in our area, and based on income, we pay that hospital a FAIR monthly fee to cover operating costs. More than likely if something happens you will be in your local area and go to your chosen hospital. If you do happen to be travelling and go to another hospital they will just bill your hospital and prices will not be inflated because of Insurance companies (the hospital can operate like a real business does with real prices). IE. 80.00 for a "mucus control device" oh, sorry I mean box of tissues! I could point out the health insurance scam but that is for another time. My point here is when your primary hospital was billed for say a broken leg while you were travelling and if that hospital was pulling a fast one and put a bunch of bogus Sht on the bill they would immeadiately be called out on it because the hospitals know their sht and aren't some desk jockey for the middle man! anyway most of the billers and coders would be hired by the hospitals any way so many jobs would be spared..
Actually I think I will give an example of the health insurance scam. This is a true story.
I do not have health insurance, I needed a back x-ray . My non-insured rate was 25.00 per x-ray I needed 4. = $100.00
My friend Jane need 2 back x-rays around the same time. she pays 850.00 p/month for insurance 80/20 and deductible was already paid for the year so she just had to pay 20%. Her bill was 160.00!! The insurance company was billed by doc 800.00 for 2 xrays!!! her 20% to pay was 160.00 for 2!! Now remember I had 4 for 100.00!! I told her to call and find out WTF! She was told the by the insuramce company "we" pay nothing for these x-rays. NOTHING! so the DOC makes sure he gets quadruple!!!
WE DON'T NEED TO BE FORCED TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE FROM PRIVATE COMAPNIES MR. PRESIDENT WE NEEDED HEALTH CARE not HEALTH INSURANCE.......THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!
P.S. I only gave 3 Ideas but there are way more than 3 things broke!!!
Here it is. Operation Peaceful Vendetta http://www.radiokazoo.net/OPV/
I have five points:
I only have one right now: Lobbying. Who is lobbying for me? Legislators need to get back to what they are elected to do. Legislate. They should not be spending so much time pandering to donors. They need to be honest and focused. To develop good legislation, the legislators need to have their finger on the pulse of their constituency. But lobbyists go far beyond just providing information. I would like to see lobbyists limited to providing written information. Today, lobbyists actually draft legislation, and it is not uncommon for legislators to introduce that legislation without so much as reading the bill or having sufficient feedback from other points of view. The whole legislative and lobbying process should be scaled back. In addition, it is essential that we bring back campaign finance reform. Take the money out of the legislative process. Moreover, actively seek out the positions of those who do not have the resources to lobby. Level the playing field for the common man... and woman!
We will keep posting our action plan until the general assembly elects an executive committee to enact an action plan of some kind. https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Frankly the one change,.... democracy is what we need most. I believe the rest can work it self out. We need to demand a new constitution with real democracy where the system is arranged to discouraged breaking of party discipline. We need a system that allows for more then two parties, ultemately we need The Constitution 2.0!
The political is personal. Our power comes from ability to raise ourselves up and to help others do the same.
These ideas apply to everyone who is concerned for their wellbeing, their family's wellbeing, their community, and the future - given the mess that we are currently in.
1) Get to know your neighbors, you are going to be doing business with them, trading with them, and coordinating with them to protect each other and come together, whatever our differing points of view - we are moving in to a breaking point whereby if our currency doesn't collapse, our ability to buy food, travel, and provide ourselves with basic necessities is going to be severely curtailed. When gas prices are through the roof, our lifestyles will change, and we will be closer to home. Learn how to barter. As well - politics are by necessity going to go to a local scale. This is our future. 2) Grow your own food, as much as you can. Even if you live in a high-rise, you can grow tomatoes on your balcony. Have chickens - they provide you with protein you can control, are great gardeners, fertilizers, recyclers & composters, and they are highly entertaining. If you can, get bigger animals and farm on a larger scale. Even if you don't have any land of your own, grow at a community garden or form one in your area at a local school. There is a family in suburban L.A. that has turned their yard into an organic farm that makes enough to feed all of them and sell produce to local restaurants! Amazing video about this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W51JRTjoI1A&feature=related 3) Cut down on your expenses. Stop buying useless trinkets. Stop going to Walmart, if you can. Cook your own food, it's better for you and it will save you money. Stop giving useless presents for Christmas and create another tradition - maybe giving away food to people with less than you. Walk - you'll stay fit and reinforce #1 - getting to know your neighbors. Or, ride your bike.
In terms of natural resources and land, our country is virtually unmatched. America is a great nation, and we can rise out of the ashes, but the way to do it is - reclaim our own independence, ingenuity, creativity and community. We can complain about what the government is or or is not doing, and how we're being stolen from, lied to, how our leaders are corrupt, and so forth. But we're headed back to basics. Are you going to be able to feed yourselves and your family? Or are you relying on someone else? If you walked down your street, and every house had raised garden beds growing a plethora of food with chickens contributing to the people and the soil, would we be hungry? Would we have to rely on our just-in-time petroleum based agricultural system? Would we still be killing precious time mowing our lawns and burning up still more gas for worthless grass?
we are all united in our anger and frustration even though we might be on different sides politically http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqLMjYT3b4w
Just one - Stop Campaign Finance and Lobbyist. This is the underpinning of many concerns on the threads.
One move at a time. You can't overwhelm and this is not organized enough to date for producing a more comprehensive list. This will give everyone a fighting chance for the upcoming election. Change is difficult so pick and choose your battles and consider what is realistically manageable.
There is ONE. Simply ONE at this time.
Stop Campaign Finance and Lobbying in our government.
Debate and discuss issues with equal time on the networks and media. No need to overwhelm, one move at a time. This one is the underpinning of many concerns voiced all throughout the threads. There are some good people in Congress right now but we can clean it up with this rule.
Believe it or not I believe one of the most important things we can do is get everyone registered to vote, oh, and make sure they have proper ID. I was shocked to hear how many people do not even vote. You lose your voice if you don't vote. I agree with the stopping of campaign financing and get lobbyist out of Washington. I also truly believe that we need to reconstruct ALL of our trade. It just isn't fair anymore. We need to make changes to existing trade bills, especially with China and India.
Although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
There are some great ideas here, some not so great, and some that are really, really bad.
I support an idea that's already been proposed here and a thousand other places. It's the one that has to happen first; if it doesn't happen, none of the others will.
We have to stop the rich, the powerful, the corporations and plutocrats from funding political campaigns and lobbyists anonymously. If someone wants to donate to a campaign or cause, that’s fine with me, but they should be required to put there name on their donation. Not their business or corporate name, their legal name, in full, with an address.
Think about this for a minute. All of you out in the streets are exercising your right to free speech. Anyone who’s interested can go to a #ows rally and to see and hear what people have to say. But if I go to one of them, and see that all the demonstrators are wearing hoods and masks to hide their identity, what would I think? I’d think the demonstrators have something to hide. I wouldn’t pay attention. I’d probably run away.
The manner in which we all must exercise our right to free speech is what #ows is all about. People talk to one another, go to public meetings, write a letter to the editor or a public official, or stand on a street corner and speechify. That’s how 99% of us do it, that’s how it’s supposed to be done. You do it publicly, in full view. You stand up and let everyone know what you think, in full view of any that care to listen. You have to do it that way. If you write an anonymous letter to the editor, it won’t get published. If you wear a hood to the town council meeting, you won’t get to speak. You have to show your face. At least, 99% of us have to do it that way.
One percent of us don’t have to do it that way. They get to hide in the shadows and throw money at any politician that will take it. The 1% and the political hacks they buy know that if we all can see exactly who is giving exactly how much money to whom, the extent of the corruption visible to all would be overwhelming and appalling.
The 1% would have us believe that hiding in the shadows and using the world’s largest bullhorn to drown out everyone else is a legitimate form of free speech. The one percent just can’t do it like the rest of us. They say they need special free speech, the special kind of speech that can only be enabled by spending vast amounts of money, anonymously, of course.
We’ll never make any improvements unless we can pull back the curtain and see which plutocrat is buying which hack. We need a constitutional amendment that either requires public funding of political campaigns, or requires full disclosure of exactly who is buying the “free” speech.
If we can’t get the money out of the process, then we have to get it out in the sunshine. It won’t be easy at all. The more noise we make, the louder those money-fueled bullhorns will become. The only way we can be heard over the dollar-horns will be with millions of our voices talking in unison.
And maybe we need our own political party. Call it the TAP Party – Torches And Pitchforks Party.
Mike Fitzhugh
Wall Street laughs at us behind their protective walls as does the President and Congress. Kindred spirits UNITE! We need to expand to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and take our message to President Obama! Congress also needs to hear us. They both have the power to change things. Things that they created
I say keep the demand simple: Peaceful assembly in public space to protest the growing wealth gap and the Wall Street perpetrators of our collapsing economy. Provide an umbrella for the 99 to have discussions like the one you've proposed. But here's my little wish list:
1) reform campaign contribution--banning PAC and corporate donations
2) make paper ballots the law of the land
3) downsize financial speculation--considerably, through enforced regulation
remove money from politics so that americans don't feel the politicians are being bought by businesses and special interests.
medicare for all.
reform tax code so different types of income are taxed under the same rules. having a limit on payroll tax or exempting capital gains from payroll tax is unfair to those who work for a living.
I feel that this movement of the people is taking on a very old and very well intrenched problem. After all, through out history, regardless of the political or financial system popular at the time, power does tend to consolidate. The Swiss philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau said in 1762 that "When the social contract is broken the people must revolt" It was true then and it is just as true now. This is a tipping point. Change must happen, change will happen, either through orderly legal prosecution and new legislation by the governments or through the disorderly and angry force of the people, personally I am hoping for the former and expecting the latter.
That said I'd like to add my 5 cents in regards to some ways to create peaceful and reasonable change.
Abolish Odious dept.
Break-up the global industrial complexes whom are corrupting society. The four obvious ones are the Military industrial complex, Financial industrial complex, Agricultural industrial complex, and the Pharmaceutical industrial complex.
A return to a non-fractionated and decentralized asset backed monetary system.
A return to an actively regulated free market economy that prosecutes fraudulent and automated transactions.
Update and overhaul International Copyright and Patent systems to 1. allow for open source technologies - All ideas come from the commons and are therefor ultimately property of the commons and 2. Allow only for a short term (maximum 10yr) legislated monopoly in order to recoup initial investments in original ideas only. After that period profits must be obtained in free market competition.
The perfect way to declare a set of principals (not demands) would be to put it on the paper the city uses for parking violations that needs to be scraped off and stick it on the front door of the Stock Exchange. An updated version of Martin Luther nailing his 95 THESES. Separation of church and state...sepration of corporation and state.
Being a sovereign individual without being fucked with by outside governing parties -- including other sovereign individuals.
abolish the federal government.
What’s YOUR occupation?!!!
Well put. Thanks for taking such a sane and inclusive approach to the mess we're in. You'll get some people being nasty in return. Don't be discouraged.
http://www.JustPaperRoses.com
"Demands" will not create change. I've created a platform for 65,000,000 voters to solve their agreed upon "demands"
Should voters have the opportunity to VOTE on a revolution?
We Have Permission to Change the System
Corruption between wall street and Washington is the problem, it always has been. Finance reform laws are a start, we can't keep having politicians bailing Thierry donators with tax payer money. We cannot have politicians whom continue to pass laws that benefit their own parties agendas. The laws need to be passed for all Americans and not one party.
I would like to see a Flat Tax with NO loop holes for any person or business. Tax Credits can be given for people who are living at the current poverty level.
Yeah, I had to ignore the "winnable" and "would garner large support" requirements. Cuz honestly, I don't see gradual change approach as leading anywhere. The system is designed to be unassailable by such tactics. So here we go: Numero 1.): --- End the Presidential System. I don't need a Fuerer, I'm not a sheep, and don't need to be led anywhere or motivated to do anything. Seriously, one bozo installs the whole cabinet/secretaries/ministers and the entire Federal judiciary? Sounds like dictatorship to me, and is CONSIDERED a dictatorship by us when we look at some other country. Replace it with a representative government with number of seats in Congress/ Executive accorded by the % of popular vote gained. THAT Is how democracies work. THAT is how we make democracies when we go around the World nation-building. 2.): In order to have Numero 1 - We need political parties!!! The 2-headed Democrit-Repugnican totalitarian 1 party system must end!!! They are NOT political parties. They are a loose congregation of of professional political activists jockeying for positions/seats in power. A Political Party - Has a clearly defined Party Program - to which the Party leaders and members must adhere -- or otherwise suffer consequences. A Political Party is answerable to the Electorate to the same degree - ergo - If an elected official strays from the platform he/she was elected on - he/she can be removed from office by a plebiscite of voters who elected him/her. Related to this -- Public Elections for ALL judiciary -- On ALL levels. 3.) Abolish Federal Election Districts. Instead have Direct Elections Nationwide. I should be able to vote for whoever I want , based on my conscience alone, no matter where the person running for office lives. When we do this - ALL our other problems/natural strivings like - free education, free healthcare, living wage, end of corruption, healthy environment, etc. will be solved /be attained.
I have read post after post and agree with most. The problem is that all these ideas for change will never get enacted unless we get true representative government back in Washington. People need to quit focusing on each little issue and look at the big picture. Both parties are bought and paid for at present with no real hope that anything that gets done in the form of any legislative act is truly in our the 99% best interests. That is why we have created the Congress and Senate Reform Act 2012. Enactment of this would take the lobbyists, donors, corporations and media money out of the election process. It would set term limits and more. Please see the full act at http://www.everything4lessstore.com/congressreformact.htm Please share this as much as you can with all that you can. We have also made lots of printable materials available online. Please spread this message as the true and real first step in taking back our country. Unless this gets enacted FIRST all the rest of the ideas for change will NEVER get enacted. This is the logical first step and can be a clear message to the media.
The term limit proposal is extremely dangerous. The laws of unintended consequences will decimate the hoped for benefits. Likely consequences are power broking machines to produce candidates. Institutional memory will reside in unaccountable bureaucrats. This will accelerate the revolving door between politics and business. In this complex technological world why do we insist that amateurs manage our government. Perhaps instead there should be an apprenticeship requirement.
I will give you one....
Make changes at both public and private universities relative to the cost of education.
They have huge pools of money in the hundreds of millions and billions in their foundations.
This money should go IMMEDIATELY, NOW, to help paydown and offset loans that students took out to pay for inflated costs of education.
Wall street fees and policies aren't the only thing out of whack.
The cost of an education in our higher learniong centers have been rising every year....where is all that money going to......
Retirees guaranteed pensions and bigger sports programs.
What about the student and their costs?
The colledges and universities have this money NOW that can be accessed thru their foundations.
Time for students to reclaim it.
We have already created the Congress and Senate Reform Act 2012 which will set us on the path to true representative government. This is what needs to change FIRST. Take the money out of elections and politics. You can read all the details of this act at http://www.everything4lessstore.com/congressreformact.htm
This is Phase 1 and this is what everyones message should be about getting enacted. All these other groups getting involved seem to have their own agenda and is getting away from the one true issue and that is we the 99% have not and are not being represented. Our government and politicians are being controlled by the rich 1% and this needs to end. Please pass this info along and get word to the media that this is our initial demand for change otherwise all these other issues will just get lost in the banter and maybe that is what the media wants. Keep the message simple and straight forward as our act proposes. Peace.
Let's put the money with the mouth. Get your friends and family to drop thief bank of America accounts to get thier attention. Pass it on!
Post the current bils, laws, debates that are going on in Congress right now to the crowd and the public. Let them vote on what they want. Reach the super-commmitee to make their discussions public. Always keep in mind that corporations, banks and the wealthy are not breaking any laws. Congress is making and passing the laws that are allowing all of this.
Economic Liberty, the freedom from being held down, knocked down and slapped around by the hand of money power. Access to resources for the security, freedom and prosperity of our innerpersonal lives and the right to improve/benefit the nation at large. The freedom from violation of the US Constitutional Bill of Rights in its true form to protect from Government and to keep the Government off the citizens backs; non manipulation through interpretation in violation. In other words, we are no longer subjects being controlled through and by those in power. We want true liberty that America, in part, has lied about and denied so many. We want America to be true to its call to freedom, starting at home.
Economic Liberty, the freedom from being held down, knocked down and slapped around by the hand of money power. Access to resources for the security, freedom and prosperity of our innerpersonal lives and the right to improve/benefit the nation at large. The freedom from violation of the US Constitutional Bill of Rights in its true form to protect from Government and to keep the Government off the citizens backs; non manipulation through interpretation in violation. In other words, we are no longer subjects being controlled through and by those in power. We want true liberty that America, in part, has lied about and denied so many. We want America to be true to its call to freedom, starting at home.
Three things that I would change: I have been affected buy these three things a long with thousands of other people!
Three things that I would change: I have been affected buy these three things a long with thousands of other people!
There are some great ideas here, some not so great, and some that are really, really bad.
I support an idea that's already been proposed here and a thousand other places. It's the one that has to happen first; if it doesn't happen, none of the others will.
We have to stop the rich, the powerful, the corporations and plutocrats from funding political campaigns and lobbyists anonymously. If someone wants to donate to a campaign or cause, that’s fine with me, but they should be required to put there name on their donation. Not their business or corporate name, their legal name, in full, with an address.
Think about this for a minute. All of you out in the streets are exercising your right to free speech. Anyone who’s interested can go to a #ows rally and to see and hear what people have to say. But if I go to one of them, and see that all the demonstrators are wearing hoods and masks to hide their identity, what would I think? I’d think the demonstrators have something to hide. I wouldn’t pay attention. I’d probably run away.
The manner in which we all must exercise our right to free speech is what #ows is all about. People talk to one another, go to public meetings, write a letter to the editor or a public official, or stand on a street corner and speechify. That’s how 99% of us do it, that’s how it’s supposed to be done. You do it publicly, in full view. You stand up and let everyone know what you think, in full view of any that care to listen. You have to do it that way. If you write an anonymous letter to the editor, it won’t get published. If you wear a hood to the town council meeting, you won’t get to speak. You have to show your face. At least, 99% of us have to do it that way.
One percent of us don’t have to do it that way. They get to hide in the shadows and throw money at any politician that will take it. The 1% and the political hacks they buy know that if we all can see exactly who is giving exactly how much money to whom, the extent of the corruption visible to all would be overwhelming and appalling.
The 1% would have us believe that hiding in the shadows and using the world’s largest bullhorn to drown out everyone else is a legitimate form of free speech. The one percent just can’t do it like the rest of us. They say they need special free speech, the special kind of speech that can only be enabled by spending vast amounts of money, anonymously, of course.
We’ll never make any improvements unless we can pull back the curtain and see which plutocrat is buying which hack. We need a constitutional amendment that either requires public funding of political campaigns, or requires full disclosure of exactly who is buying the “free” speech.
If we can’t get the money out of the process, then we have to get it out in the sunshine. It won’t be easy at all. The more noise we make, the louder those money-fueled bullhorns will become. The only way we can be heard over the dollar-horns will be with millions of our voices talking in unison.
And maybe we need our own political party. Call it the TAP Party – Torches And Pitchforks Party.
Mike Fitzhugh Telluride, Co.
There are some great ideas here, some not so great, and some that are really, really bad.
I support an idea that's already been proposed here and a thousand other places. It's the one that has to happen first; if it doesn't happen, none of the others will.
We have to stop the rich, the powerful, the corporations and plutocrats from funding political campaigns and lobbyists anonymously. If someone wants to donate to a campaign or cause, that’s fine with me, but they should be required to put there name on their donation. Not their business or corporate name, their legal name, in full, with an address.
Think about this for a minute. All of you out in the streets are exercising your right to free speech. Anyone who’s interested can go to a #ows rally and to see and hear what people have to say. But if I go to one of them, and see that all the demonstrators are wearing hoods and masks to hide their identity, what would I think? I’d think the demonstrators have something to hide. I wouldn’t pay attention. I’d probably run away.
The manner in which we all must exercise our right to free speech is what #ows is all about. People talk to one another, go to public meetings, write a letter to the editor or a public official, or stand on a street corner and speechify. That’s how 99% of us do it, that’s how it’s supposed to be done. You do it publicly, in full view. You stand up and let everyone know what you think, in full view of any that care to listen. You have to do it that way. If you write an anonymous letter to the editor, it won’t get published. If you wear a hood to the town council meeting, you won’t get to speak. You have to show your face. At least, 99% of us have to do it that way.
One percent of us don’t have to do it that way. They get to hide in the shadows and throw money at any politician that will take it. The 1% and the political hacks they buy know that if we all can see exactly who is giving exactly how much money to whom, the extent of the corruption visible to all would be overwhelming and appalling.
The 1% would have us believe that hiding in the shadows and using the world’s largest bullhorn to drown out everyone else is a legitimate form of free speech. The one percent just can’t do it like the rest of us. They say they need special free speech, the special kind of speech that can only be enabled by spending vast amounts of money, anonymously, of course.
We’ll never make any improvements unless we can pull back the curtain and see which plutocrat is buying which hack. We need a constitutional amendment that either requires public funding of political campaigns, or requires full disclosure of exactly who is buying the “free” speech.
If we can’t get the money out of the process, then we have to get it out in the sunshine. It won’t be easy at all. The more noise we make, the louder those money-fueled bullhorns will become. The only way we can be heard over the dollar-horns will be with millions of our voices talking in unison.
And maybe we need our own political party. Call it the TAP Party – Torches And Pitchforks Party.
Mike Fitzhugh Telluride, Co.
make them pay attention to those who put them in power....Recall your Senator...here's a quick reference of process....http://www.ehow.com/how_2096900_recall-us-senator.html
With the greatest of respect, this request for ideas to change the current system shows perfectly why this movement will not work. The entire political class & structure of Western governments (and the U.S. in particular) can not be changed in any meaningful way that would resolve the fundamental problems within them.
Same goes for the financial system. Moving to a progressive tax system (like the one we had in the 1950s) might help even out some of the inequality, but it's much more of a cosmetic change than anything else.
I've read a couple of very interesting (though mostly borrowed) articles on the entire notion of what this movement is really all about. The best of these suggest (ever so carefully) that the real objective is to move from our current system (politically & economically facist, self-centered, materialistic, egotistical, greedy, whatever else otherwise unflattering terms come to mind) to a system based on real democratic inclusion, economic & social justice, environmentally sustainable development, a philosophy based on mutual respect and the communal well-being of our societies as a whole.
It sounds wonderful, and in many other places and times I think such a change could happen, but let's be honest with ourselves here. The political class has zero to gain from such a change. The corporate class has zero to gain. Whole sectors of the current social system would require complete retooling, or just be done away with completely. To too many people with vested interests that is simply not acceptable.
In essence what many people seem to be suggesting is a move towards a social democratic model, or to be more accurate, towards socialism. But even to be called a liberal in America is an insult, the vast majority of people would never support the idea of the U.S. becoming what protesters are asking for, that is, a socialist state.
That's not socialist. That is a Christian state.
I suppose it would matter on your definition of socialism, but I would call government intervention in the economy a form of socialism.
Ccan you explain what you mean by "Christian state"? The U.S. is, of course, officially secular, so how does this relate?
"Officialy secular". Still, every morning most children in the US pledge allegion to the flag, and to (the Christian) God. So do most politicians, the military and the presidents. There exists a very polarised view in the US about 'capitalism' and 'socialsm', which has many people chasing ghosts. But everybody seems to mean something else. Figure it out if you will. What are they, in reality. These both are ideologies, value systems, proposed models based on theories. They have nothing to do with our political system, our societies, our communities, towns, places of work and our cities. A city can not be a ´capitalist city´. A capital city may capitulate, sorry for the joke, but that´s a bout it. Does the capitalist family exist? Do capitalist companies exist? Capitalist laws? I for one don't think the do. Neither dis or does the socialist family ever exist, apart from in the mind and propaganda of dictators. I see social struggle. That just means people in bad social circumstance demanding a fair share, which is not the same as 'socialist take over' equaling 'soviet dictatorship'. It's the same with 'communism'. If you ask to put community first, you may get prosecuted for being a 'communist' by now. Basicaly, these systems competing, they are representing interests, mostly along the lines of vulnerable families vs. big business, they are subjective political views and opinions and mixed with a whole lot of non sense fear mongering. Mostly they seem to just be abstract models. Why I came up with the notion of a christian state, is to propose to you we could propose to promote the more widely agreed upon family value systems that Christianity is based on strongly, before anything like socialism would come in. Socialism, like capitalism, is some utopian model, which can not ever exist in reality, or be in any way an alternative for our community or our families, which make up our real worlds social structure.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one - "These both are ideologies, VALUE SYSTEMS" (my emphasis). It's a perfect point, because that is exactly where many of these proposed systems diverge - sometimes only to meet up again later when you get into specific policy discussions!
This, though, is also one of the hardest aspects to work around, the notion of a difference in the base values between various systems. Socialism has a very different set of base values than does Capitalism, at least in their "pure" theory forms. In reality most countries blend parts of both. The Europeans try for a more Socially democratic ideal, strong welfare state, etc. Trying to "put a human face on Capitalism" as it were.
In the Anglo-Saxon world (U.K. Can, Aus, U.S.) the emphasis is shifted to the market place to provide the supports, employment, etc.
On the point of Secularism vs having a society based on Christianity, in my mind there is no contest. The United States is extremely fortunate to have a secular constitution (even if it is still a "Christian Nation"), the values - some might say lackthereof - of Christianity are not a great place to aim for when we have, in virtually ever respect, surpassed them with secular law. It would seem to me a retrograde step to revert back to that.
Evolved from Christian upbringing, I think of myself as a secular humanist, rather not atheist, but evenly weary of naming gods name, or making an image of it, I do embrace the existence of a higher consiousness, and many levels there of, and in spirit, soul, and than some, but all very much grounded in the human experience. I'm not into religion. Having said, I acknowlegde and respect people who are of different opinion, experience and explanation. What I feel to be a astounding quality of Christianity are the teachings of Christ, the new testament in which I find him to be the learning-teacher who is emancipating an oppressed and distressed people. I am also quite impressed with various other 'world teachers' like Krisjna, Ghandi and Mandela, the list is long, who much along the same line gave testamony to this tradition. The value systems they all convey evolve around virtue and enlightenment, familiy values, community, equality, inner richess, but also address the weaker and downright hideous human quarter of sin, greed, want, envy and jalousy. What I also like about the new testament is it does not include a rule book, but how it seems to take a flexible stance toward more every day ill behaviour, like adultery, unlike the old testament it's not vengefull, vindictive, indoctrinating, or judgemental. It's a learning, growing teaching and evolving God-man. It is accept vice, sin, error, it respects or accepts the weaknesses of human beings toward temptation, without over tolerating it. The only major issue, and this is where Jesus get's really agressive and even violent, is when it's about the money exchangers in the temple. Jesus is angred beyond control over this. And this now is exactly the problem most other western democratic houses face. Big business is ruling over our temples of the people and thus over the people and greed. In the old testament God was evenly outraged when they worshipped a golden calf. Again, we deal with the ammassed wealth. So how could they have known this, how could they have foreseen this? Because many empires, leaders and whole civilisations have gone before and perished because of the amassed wealth, becauseof the greed at the top of the piramid. My though is, an appeal to these widespread teachings may appeal to the dominant religious movement in the US, the Christian churches.
I would make the following observation on Jesus (I am borrowing heavily from C. S. Lewis & Christopher Hitchens for this next part)
Basically there are 3 ways to view Jesus, the first is how Christians do, which is to say that he's the literal son of God, and so basically he gets a free pass to do and say whatever he wants, because, well, he's the son of God. The second way is that he wasn't the literal son of God, but he was, instead, a great moral teacher or prophet. This is essentially how most Muslims and some secular people view him, and I will admit, I also subscibed to this view for a while. The last is that he was a crazy person.
I don't go into the greatest depth of the arguments, but it more or less boils down to this: If Jesus wasn't the literal son of God, then what he said makes no sense... how can a regular human being cleanse you of your sins? They can't, no one can... unless they actually are the literal son of God.
So, the 2nd option of our list of 3 no longer works. Either you accept Jesus was the literal son of God, the Messiah, or he was a crazy person who made claims that have no moral foundation. Hitchens has done several lectures on the subject, check youtube, some of them are very interesting to watch.
This then causes a problem when we try to use Christianity as a guiding light for the rest of society.... sure, some parts of it do sound kinda nice, but as you say, you still have to eject most of the Torah to achieve even a mixed picture of morals and ethics. I still think the U.S. has it right with a secular constitution in a democratic republic. The people just need to have enough faith - no pun intended - in themselves, and each other to reform the system so it works for everyone, not just the top 1%
Well, if you can try unravell some mystery and will mostly just mistify things, if you just take his direct testamony and his own accounts - as far as this is feasable and historicaly corerect acount, but since it is all we have on huim, clearly, through these tales he got through to people, and these tales have very clear set morals and message, right?
Some of the parables might have some nice, "moral" messages in them, it's true, but what do we make of the ones that either make no sense? (Mark 11:12-14), or are actually immoral positions? (passivism, vicarious redemption, elevating "faith" above reason, etc).
It's like the 10 commandments, some of them are very good - not killing, etc... but first off, it's hardly like secular people couldn't have figured that one out for themselves, and second, it's actually only speaking in a tribal sense.... it doesn't mean not to kill people in other tribes, just no killing in your own tribe. Many of Christianity's teaching fall into this kind of trap, they aren't universal, they only apply to those who accept the message. Trying to use them as a moral rulebook becomes difficult, to say the least.
Secular law has already addressed most of the issues we might face in a moral or ethical sense. We have to believe that people can have virtuous values without restoring to superstition. We should "resort" to reason, logic and our shared & common humanity in dealing with our problems, not turn to the religions of our ancestors.
Digital Democracy!! We need an app and website where registered voters can login and actually choose how they want their Senator or Representative to vote on specific bill or issues. The totals would be displayed by district, state and nationwide. Comparisons between the will of the people and the actual politicians would show who is representing their constituents and who isn't.
After that, we need candidates for the next election who will commit to following the will of the people based on these results.
ozzir I am looking to get in contact with some people in charge. I have a solution. I have been working on a system that can totally benefit the Average American and bypass wall street. Please take this message seriously and contact me ASAP. I want to be part of this movement and I feel that with my creation we can take this to a whole new level.
Tim Rizzo-Murray Ozzir "Too Small to Fail" 321-368-9137 Cell
1) Start a campaign to vote every member of congress out - and get all new members in. This would be a kick start to any change. It would grab the attention of the political world and financial - that nobody is safe. This would be the most important step to illicit change.
Also, propose a constitutional amendment that imposes congressional term limits - also limits salary and penchant plans. The President has a term limit - so should congress.
2) Get behind a movement to simplify the tax code. Example, The Fair Tax or Flat Tax Rate. (No tax plan is a great one ...but we need a tax plan that doesn't have double taxation, that doesn't punish you for saving money, and one that doesn't have loopholes so that millionaires can pay less money).
3) I like John S # 1: Propose a constitutional ammendment overturning the Supreme Court's recent ruling making it illegal to make any contribution of any kind to an elected official or an officially declared candidate.
4) Keep your message simple.
1.) Hold ALL public servants Accountable when they dishonor their Oath
2.) Keep corporations from donating/giving money to politicians/campaigns
3.) Teach people that our Constitutional Republic prohibits the taking of rights/property (that means my $ cannot be taken from me & given to someone else...welfare is unconstitutional, so are the pensions of politicians, social security, etc. because we are FORCED to pay into them-for it to be constitutional you would need to Voluntarily pay into them).
I have a great idea for the OWS movement. Go home. Get a job. Help a neighbor. Quit crying.
Actualy, you make me laugh. Your suggestion is only part of a great idea. But just the start, and then you jump the mind train. See, like most of us, I have a job, I go home to my family every day, help my neighbours whenever I can, and, sorry, though I don't feel sorry for myself, it makes me miserable sometimes and it also drives me to tears, when I see the planet suffer and I don't know whether my kids or the planet for that matter, will have a half decent future, unless some fundamental changes to the framework of our developing society are embraced. I do not feel weak. I don't feel disempowered by taking a moral stand. Yes, I worry, because I do my utmost working overtime 6 days a week, I take my responsabilities, but do not see my government or big businesses do the same, I work hard and also take time for my family, I don't make enough money to make ends meet. So, as for your great idea, it's a start, but not enough for me, by a long shot!
One Common Interest: End Corporate Lobbyists
from there all these other issues can be raised, debated, and voted on based on our representative government weighted one vote per one citizen.
Corporate lobbyists serve the interests of perhaps 1 in 1,000 of us. with those numbers I can imagine an end to the practice. One issue, one focus nearly all of us will agree on that will open the door to all the other issues being negotiated with our common interest in the forefront.
Perfect comment. And yet totally academic. What are you doing to put teeth into it? Have you closed your Merrill Lynch, or BofA account yet?
I would love to, but where would I put the money I am able to save? I can only make pennies in a savings account, while they can gamble with mt money and charge me to use it for purchases. The laws allow this, the politicians pass these laws...
Is there an honest bank for the people? I would welcome any pratical ideas.
DagneyT, you're not obliged to keep your money in a bank anywhere. Invest in a local grocery store, invest in a co-op farm, buy investments from the company of your choice DIRECTLY and avoid the bank and brokers. Again, this will all be for naught if you don't actually DO SOMETHING.
Thanks, there is a farm right here. I don't think the are prepared for investors, though. I will see what they have to say. How do you buy direct investments from a company? Keep the ideas coming!
They ARE prepared for investors: limited partnership agreements are simple tools that allow you to access their success (and risk) and is probably not a bad spot for you to park some of your long term savings.
Where do I find them?
Also, buying direct from the company - look up 'equiserve' as an example, additionally the generic name is DRIP - direct reinvestment plan.
Thanks again, it will be a small step.
It's a big step IF YOU DO IT.
Well, I will.
thanks MJT (I think, lol)
I am not an academic. what am I doing to put teeth in it? the power to exercise our common interest is from 300 million of us, not one.
the teeth is the idea itself, so if you like the idea great, let's draw other people to one simple agreeable, actionable idea and le it rise above the noise.
ps I use Vanguard... more or less a credit union of an investment opportunity ;)
Again, friend - you've got to motivate people to vote with their money, since voting at the polls no longer works. THINK BIG THINK FAST. Close a bank down.
if protests on the streets can remove the grip of an iron fist of a dictator in Egypt in months, why can't a snowball build of popular demand to end corporate lobbyists work in a country which has an elected government?
We're on the same team - but what you're suggesting is not actionable. It's not something YOU can do. It's part of a discussion to a solution. Besides, the scale of the problem relative to Egypt, which only has 500b GDP and their whole population was behind them, BofA has annual rev of 8b we have 6 thousand people behind us. Approach of scale should also be kept in mind as to actionability. Build momentum AND DO SOMETHING.
I understand what you are saying. I think you are more in the OWS camp, and I am more in the camp of OWS is opening up a new conversation. You are looking for an action for a group of 6,000, I'm looking for an idea that generate overwhelming public support.
good luck.
so is the idea to close out accounts with financial institutions who show no concern for the common interests?
Good luck to you - I'll be there for you later, please be there for us now.
A grass roots movement through the internet to eliminate corporate lobbyists.
One change that would be in the interest of 999 out of 1,000 of us, and dramatically shift government from corporate interest to common interest.
From there all the other issues everyone raises can be raised, debated and voted on by a far more healthy government.
This is great but we need an objective system for listing and ranking ideas that is truly and controllably 1 man 1 vote. I've seen similar systems. Any tech heads working on this?
With the great grass roots campaign, there now needs to be an evolution to campaigning for change and a message that resonates throughout the country. My message would be "a bailout for the 99%--the 1% received it, so should we. Here's what I'd lobby for:
1) The government buys all mortgages owned by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at 50 cents on the dollar and reduces the mortgage rate to 2% and passing the savings on to mortgage holders. Thus virtually all Americans will have their mortgages reduced. The mortgage modification should be considered taxable income--thus if you earn more, you get taxed more on the loan modification
2) A similar process for student loans
3) Modifying how social security taxes are collected. People on pay social security taxes on the first $106,000 of income. So for the 1% they're paying very little social security tax--a percentage that is significantly less than 6.25 percent we currently pay. This needs to be fixed.
The problem with 1) and 2) is that Fannie/Freddie/Sallie don't directly own most of the mortgages on their books. The loans have been securitized, which means that the loans were placed in trusts that issued securities to investors based on the loan collateral. By holding the asset-backed security (ABS), the investors have a right to a portion of the monthly principal and interest payments being paid every month. Most of the investors who purchase MBS are large pension funds. If all the loans were all modified as you suggest, the pension funds would take huge losses and might not be able to make payments to retirees. I think that loans should be modified on a case by case basis, but the loan servicers have not been doing a good job in helping people to modify their loans.
I want my congressman and senators to be part of our social security system and to follow the constitution when it come's to pay raise for themselves,. and to cut the the maga tax brakes for corporate America
If I were you guys, I would simply focus on restoring a true democracy. Get the influence of corporate money out of both the government and the media and make the US government respect it's constitution. Keep it simple and appealing to most people. First part is to get the puppets to leave the stage. That is what this should be about, in my opinion. Once that is done, there will be room for sensable ideas to survive in the system as it was once intended...
I'm saying 'you guys' because this is coming from the Netherlands. Absolutely no media coverage (apart from the 700 arrests) on the event here by the way. But I support your goals and will do my best to create awareness. Good luck!
I want my congressman and senators to be part of our social security system and pay back social security the money they took back in the 70's and put in the general fund, and to follow the constitution when it come's to pay raise for themselves,. and to cut the the maga tax brakes for corporate America. IT'S TIME FOR A GENERAL STRIKE DON'T TURN A WHEEL DON'T DO A THING FOR TWO DAYS OCT 24 - 25
I want my congressman and senators to be part of our social security system and pay back social security the money they took back in the 70's and put in the general fund, and to follow the constitution when it come's to pay raise for themselves,. and to cut the the maga tax brakes for corporate America. IT'S TIME FOR A GENERAL STRIKE DON'T TURN A WHEEL DON'T DO A THING FOR TWO DAYS OCT 24 - 25
General Strike sounds great but we probably aren't ready for it. If we call it and nothing happens or the Media doesn't cover it, we lose. Best to go for something smaller, easier to accomplish, for now. General Strikes are great in Europe but we have No Experience with them here. I love the idea, don't get me wrong. In fact, the Idea is Fantastic. But, we have to evaluate ideas by looking critically at reality and conclude what the result might be. Long range, maybe. My idea is a Mass March on Washington, one million people at the Lincoln Memorial or thereabouts. Easier to do I think as compared to General Strike since we do not have the enough numbers yet. We can build on it. Again, I emphasize, I like the idea.
The are some 8 billion electronic financial transactions daily. These transactions represent the exchange of goods for money. Tax them.
Get Wall Street out of the White House - Geithner, Summers, Rubin, etc...need to go.
Repeal the personal income tax on wages under $50,000 annually.
This is a good topic - bump
I only have one demand. I would demand that everyone in the 99% read this: http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html
Okay, three demands. 1) Increase Taxes on Wealthy, implement higher taxes on luxury items and also sin taxes (alcohol, Tobacco, gambling) & use money to finance Jobs for infrastructure, etc., Job Training, Re-training. 2) Reform Political Process by a) ending the filibuster, and other legislative processes which make legislation all but impossible b) have public funding of national elections, c) end all political ads and instead of free access for debates, interviews, articles etc.; 3) End Wall Street and Bank abuses by bringing back Glass-Steagall and other laws to rein in wall street for abuses, corruption and thievery.
All three of these are doable IF people get behind them. Although it is unlikely at this point, the changing times and conditions will provide an opening for pressure on legislators OR we can amend the Constitution. More importantly, we need to build a MASS MOVEMENT across the country with a few general Principles and a Simple Platform (not too many details as the timing is not right for that and dissenters, infiltrators and the Power Structure will eviscerate us by harping on the details, better to make simple, positive statements of the obvious need for basic and essential reforms as listed above). Build a movement by creating 1000 chapters across the country with dues paying members who can then vote (need to raise money of course). Keep the actions focused on Banks and Wall Street for now, everybody hates those institutions and we can garner much agreement. Do not get sidetracked on taking on too much. Build on what we can mostly all agree upon. Do not let the intellectuals, the critics, the extreme partisans take over. They are largely a DO-NOTHING crowd that love inaction, meetings and endless bullshit discussions which is an excuse for not getting involved. Find good egoless facilitators to lead. Ask all serious people to contribute to the grunt work. We need commitments of 5-20 hours per month. Fun, job, parties are great but they are recreation. Intellectual stuff is important as part of dialogues, discussions, and providing clarity but do not get carried away with abstract considerations which have little relevance to the practical necessity of building the MOVEMENT for a FAIR & COMMON SENSE approach to changing the political system.
Take your sin tax and cram it where the sun don't shine! I think we should establish a zealot tax. We'll collect taxes on bibles and crosses and remove tax exempt status for religious institutions. Let's face it, the Cathlioc Church is one of the riches institutions in the world yet their charitable works are are virtually non existant in todays society. Todays religious institutions may do some work on a Macro scale but at the parish level most simply hold service and collect money.
Where the hell do you get off thinking it's appropriate for you to dictate to me how I should spend my leisure time? Adding to that you believe burdoning me with excessive taxes will solve the problem, STFU
The problem with your ideas is that you completely alienated everyone with your sin tax proposition. This is as bad as what the other lackeys do in government and that is push their personal dogma on others. Sorry but your message is lost and unreadable after that.
Indict Alex Mozilo, Joseph Cassano, and Lloyd Blankfein for fraud as a first step to put the fear of god in Wall Street (that's three).
1-3. The members of the democracy need to stop voting for the politicians who buy the most air time. When legitimacy is no longer equated with campaign contributions, then there will be hope for the 99%. Today, we vote for a Plutocracy.
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought this movement began as a result of corporate greed not political corruption. Ofc both of these exist but the "word on the street" is it all started with Bank of America.
Who do you think politicians are corrupted by? They are going to the source, but I'm trying to pinpoint a starting point for the solution
Good question. Big money is getting to them and someone needs to find out how. Why on Earth would anyone take the risk and pay a million dollars for a senate seat unless there was much more in it for them?
The problem is that we have a government that colludes with corporations to perpetuate fraud against the people = corporate fascism.
The solution is to elect Ron Paul.
Don't act like you didnt already know this you dummy.
Ron Paul is not electable. He has even indicated that he may not actually want to be Prez. He is 75. He is unrealistic in the extreme. I like the guy personally but he seems to want to take us back to the past when the govt. didn't help or seem to care for the elderly, the sick, the needy. Not a very compassionate person, I think. He hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of being elected. Why waste your time?
ABOLISH MONEY
Quotations from famous ppl who believed in eliminating money: http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html
Over and over again the government has carelessly given bailout money to companies without an accounting of how they will spend their money. We are tired of the government just giving away tax dollars carelessly. Reform the treasurey department and get them in check.
Increase taxes by percentage on the upper class. Decrease tax breaks for the wealthy. Stop making the richer richer. Bring back the capitalism that our founding fathers established when the federal income tax was a progressive tax , meaning that people with higher incomes pay a larger percentage of their incomes as taxes than do people with lower incomes.
End the unneccasary war in Iraq and save billions of dollars
Draft laws and changes to existing laws that are voted on by the people. Our representatives are not representing us. The Congress is passing laws daily that benefit corporations, banks, the wealthy and themselves. Did any of us vote for the bail-out? The people did not want it and they did it anyway. Enforce democracy, that what is needed.
www.equalitytrust.org.uk
Because more equal societies work better for everyone. Let's put "Evidence Based Politics" into our vocabulary and politics!
Here is an idea. I hope it helps set an example of what a "By the People" and "For the Planet" society looks like. It took a revolution because that is the only way to rid the muck of ages.
Olancho is the idea that human prosperity and thriving ecosystems are achievable through the application of renewable energy and appropriate technologies, sustainable agricultural practices and good government.
The people of Olancho have reasserted the legitimate jurisdiction of private rights and environmental stewardship against unsustainable living, rampant consumerism, economic shocks, oppressive oligarchies and engorging bureaucracies in Latin America, the United Sates and Europe.
The economy of Olancho is heavily weighted to the primary sector. Small private enterprises intensively manage highly productive farms and related industries. Each community maximizes its ability to sustain itself with food, water, energy and other resources necessary for human health, well being and prosperity. Surpluses are traded between communities within Olancho and imports and exports are traded with other nations.
Economic growth is strengthened by a unified market, a supportive political-legal system, vast natural resources, a culture that values entrepreneurship and a commitment to investing in material and human capital.
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www.republicofolancho.com
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At no other time are the masses of the people in a position to come forward so actively as creators of new political, economic and social orders as at a time of revolution.
¡Viva la Revolución! ¡VIVA OLANCHO!
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Thanx for the link. Will read up on this.
Balanced budget amendment, anti-corruption amendment, flat tax.
We definiately need an anti-corruption amendment
the solution.
http://youtu.be/Ka1ym7S3F3w
I agree with a bunch of things on this video. I'll look into Ron Paul
Ronpaulflix.com has a large collection of footage. Here's another good video show this mans coniction and consistency
http://rpflix.com/2108
If you are Occupying Wall St, Ron Paul is NOT your man! Are you really listening to what he is saying? And if you really believe the rich should be "paying their fair share" Ron Paul would have them pay LESS. If you want a social system where every citizen is to truly have at least BASIC economic (FDIC), health (Medicare and Medicaid) and life long (welfare and social security) protections you HAVE TO PAY TAXES. WE ALL HAVE TO PAY TAXES. Nothing in life is free. If you don't think you should have to pay taxes and you believe all of those protections should be up to you and you alone, no matter the state of the Nation, then Ron Paul is for you. So when you finally are able to get a job, make sure the first thing you do is ask for a raise - and see how that goes over...
Part 2: consumes a ton of person hours per unit work done, but which is highly reliable, easy to use so it is inclusive and I would argue still reasonably fast and capable of producing good quality decisions, maybe even better than a functional version of the main system. Ultimately you must take the existing system and use your whole brains and all the skill sets available to come up with an exact vision of the system you want to see in the short term, and push it through and see how it works and evolves as you try to maintain it over the long term once it is "turned on". Pushing it through might require a supermajority of the country in a referendum even, conceivably, if the government ultimately refuses to implement your proposals by themselves and not undermine them. Then remove any politicians, aids, etc. from the system that look like they might counteract your changes after you leave by erasing or undermining them deliberately. In other words, make sure people qualified for the job are in there.
If that is the case you are faced with the challenge of swimming upstream against the resources and dirty tricks and propaganda of the 1% for a while until you can achieve enough agreement among the people on exactly what to do.
Ultimately we are hairless apes that can stand on our hind legs, located in this particular section of a pale blue planet hanging in the void. Everything is up to us (well there is the problem of tampering from other countries), but the 1% have a massive head start with their propaganda, the promises that we have made to each other and they have extracted from us regarding notions of ownership which hem us in and if kept allow them to control a ton of tools and resources to use against us, as well as various conventions against breaking the laws that do exist regardless (apparently) of how corrupt or unjustified and unfair or immoral they are. So I don't mean to minimize the difficulty, we will need to use our whole brains, skill sets and knowledge to win but we can do it, and it starts with discussion happening with enough people so it has the authority it needs, evolving towards conclusions about what the problem is and how to solve it. Once we have that we will just legally and nonviolently sweep the 1% aside and any (very small hopefully) remaining 99%ers they have brainwashed enough to still oppose us.
It might, come to think of it, (also) actually make sense to have a sort of parallel economy with "politibucks" to rations political influence, but it would probably be extremely difficult to keep the two separated in the real world. Maybe a "reality compensation" system that increased the cost of buying political influence to a level where it actually hurts the wealthy as much as anyone else, to buy a given amount of influence. That might be extremely hard to go or though compared to caps and tweaking the exisiting system. It might be be a good idea to try to keep the change to the minimum of what you need to get the results rather than trying something totally new like that unless it is determined to be really necessary.
THEN with this system that functions with reasonable efficiency, you can make sensible decisions about the tax code, health care, etc etc.
Shit, the thing garbled the formatting of my comment. I'll try again for readability. PART one:
First fix public debate by adding a democratically controlled voice of equal volume to the debate - the sort of media that will do things like cover protests like yours, and counter propaganda as a voice of truth and reason. This is fundamental, imagine if in you GAs there were people that could talk literally a million times as loud as everyone else. Literally, because that is what it is. And people got into the habit of only listening to those people, for whatever reason. You could never have a decent public discussion that was not under their thumb and basically only what they wanted to hear and say.
Secondly transparency, real transparency everwhere possible, with the information presented effectively. You are having a terrible time coming up with and deciding on the changes you need because everyone and even the public itself can only see the government through a soda straw, and in the dark so to speak. You cannot make good decisions without information you need. So back up a step and solve one of the problems that is making it so hard to solve the problem - get your foot in the door. I don't mean do this first, but in parallel as it is of primary importance down the road no matter how you work it. We are in this for the long haul. For the short term we just need to work with the info and the people who are on our side that we got.
To achieve real transparency the freedom of the press must also be increased, and you must have a diffucult-to corrupt organization like one democratically run by consensus, organization dedicated to thoroughly and accessibly documenting the government and how it works in all it's detail.
And third, yes, in the short term implement the sort of system specific changes that other organizations have been working on for some time. Get them spruced up and coherent and steal all the best ideas. As long as the changes are specific to the problem of fundamentally fixing the system itsself there is no reason whatsoever to limit the number of changes. We have to be adults and embrace complexity here.
Ultimately it may be that no matter how much you demand that the government do things they will not do as you ask. I figure this is probably the case. Even if you got their concession to do so, when they actually went to do it they would water it down, cripple it, insert trojan horses so it won't actually work, and all your effort will be for nothing but a cosmetic show-peice. On this scenario, since the existing system is corrupt you have to go back to an organizational model which is more basic, kludgier and
PART 2 (said it was too long) : with an exact vision of the system you want to see in the short term, and push it through and see how it works and evolves as you try to maintain it over the long term once it is "turned on". Pushing it through might require a supermajority of the country in a referendum even, conceivably, if the government ultimately refuses to implement your proposals by themselves and not undermine them. Then remove any politicians, aids, etc. from the system that look like they might counteract your changes after you leave by erasing or undermining them deliberately. In other words, make sure people qualified for the job are in there. If that is the case you are faced with the challenge of swimming upstream agains the resources and dirty tricks and propaganda of the 1% for a while until you can achieve enough agreement among the people on exactly what to do. Ultimately we are hairless apes that can stand on our hind legs, located in this particular section of a pale blue planet hanging in the void. Everything is up to us (well there is the problem of tampering from other countries), but the 1% have a massive head start with their propaganda, the promises that we have made to each other and they have extracted from us regarding notions of ownership which hem us in and if kept allow them to control a ton of tools and resources to use against us, as well as various conventions against breaking the laws that do exist regardless (apparently) of how corrupt or unjustified and unfair or immoral they are. So I don't mean to minimize the difficulty, we will need to use our whole brains, skill sets and knowledge to win but we can do it, and it starts with discussion happening with enough people so it has the authority it needs, evolving towards conclusions about what the problem is and how to solve it. Once we have that we will just legally and nonviolently sweep the 1% aside and any (very small hopefully) remaining 99%ers they have brainwashed enough to still oppose us. It might, come to think of it, (also) actually make sense to have a sort of parallel economy with "politibucks" to rations political influence, but it would probably be extremely difficult to keep the two separated in the real world. Maybe a "reality compensation" system that increased the cost of buying political influence to a level where it actually hurts the wealthy as much as anyone else, to buy a given amount of influence. That might be extremely hard to go or though compared to caps and tweaking the exisiting system. It might be be a good idea to try to keep the change to the minimum of what you need to get the results rather than trying something totally new like that unless it is determined to be really necessary. THEN with this system that functions with reasonable efficiency, you can make sensible decisions about the tax code, health care, etc etc.
First fix public debate by adding a democratically controlled voice of equal volume to the debate - the sort of media that will do things like cover protests like yours, and counter propaganda as a voice of truth and reason. This is fundamental, imagine if in you GAs there were people that could talk literally a million times as loud as everyone else. Literally, because that is what it is. And people got into the habit of only listening to those people, for whatever reason. You could never have a decent public discussion that was not under their thumb and basically only what they wanted to hear and say. Secondly transparency, real transparency everywhere possible, with the information presented effectively. You are having a terrible time coming up with and deciding on the changes you need because everyone and even the public itself can only see the government through a soda straw, and in the dark so to speak. You cannot make good decisions without information you need. So back up a step and solve one of the problems that is making it so hard to solve the problem - get your foot in the door. I don't mean do this first, but in parallel as it is of primary importance down the road no matter how you work it. We are in this for the long haul. For the short term we just need to work with the info and the people who are on our side that we got. To achieve real transparency the freedom of the press must also be increased, and you must have a difficult-to corrupt organization like one democratically run by consensus, organization dedicated to thoroughly and accessibly documenting the government and how it works in all it's detail. And third, yes, in the short term implement the sort of system specific changes that other organizations have been working on for some time. Get them spruced up and coherent and steal all the best ideas. As long as the changes are specific to the problem of fundamentally fixing the system itsself there is no reason whatsoever to limit the number of changes. We have to be adults and embrace complexity here. Ultimately it may be that no matter how much you demand that the government do things they will not do as you ask. I figure this is probably the case. Even if you got their concession to do so, when they actually went to do it they would water it down, cripple it, insert trojan horses so it won't actually work, and all your effort will be for nothing but a cosmetic show-peice. On this scenario, since the existing system is corrupt you have to go back to an organizational model which is more basic, kludgier and consumes a ton of person hours per unit work done, but which is highly reliable, easy to use so it is inclusive and I would argue still reasonably fast and capable of producing good quality decisions, maybe even better than a functional version of the main system. Ultimately you must take the existing system and use your whole brains and all the skill sets available to come up
I have more than three, and they lean heavily to the left. However, I have always believed that the US could be much more progressive than it is if leaders were to provide leadership, and results could be seen, as happened with FDR and the New Deal. We are now, once again, in a place where such change is necessary. We should not be afraid to "go big" as FDR did, and as Obama, unfortunately, did not. He wasted a once in a lifetime historical moment when the US was fed up with war, greed, and wall st. banks, in an attempt to make everyone happy.
My ideas are at:
http://octangle.wordpress.com
Let me know what you think. Keep up the good fight!!
See this is where we get into political mud wrestling. I disagree totally that FDR and the New Deal were good for the country. And I will fight any person or group that tries to force anymore new deals on us. FDR's New Deal, IMHO, was another one of those straws that helped to break the camels back and I'm far from the only person who thinks like that. I guess before you even look for ideas you may need to define just what kind of government we are to have. I vote for more freedom and less socialism.
But what you are saying seems to imply that you support a libertarian agenda--a philosophy that says the less we regulate big business the happier we will be. Wasn't the melt down of 2008 caused by the recklessness of unregulated banks? Aren't all of our labor standards, benefits and environmental protections the results of democratic regulation? A world without safety nets, without minimum standards, without a check on the power of large monied interests seems like a grim and dangerous world to me. And, I believe, history bears me out on this...
"Wasn't the melt down of 2008 caused by the recklessness of unregulated banks?" Your kidding right? We haven't had a free market in this country for about 100 years or more. The big banks and corporations have it all rigged in their favor. They got Glass-Steagall thrown out that separated investment banking from regular banking. The banking regulators are in bed with the banks. The regulators working for the SEC, FDIC and all the rest just use that job as a stepping stone to get a higher paying job with the banks. Then the CEO's and CFO's and other big shots at the banks get appointed to jobs heading those same regulating agencies or the DOT or the FED. None of that has anything to do with the "libertarian agenda" that's crony capitalism. The problem was not that we did not have enough regulations, it was that the regulations were not and are not being enforced. We have laws against fraud and theft they aren't being enforced.
Labor laws? Environmental Law? You may want to think about that a little. What is one of the major problems that we are having in this country right now? Lack of jobs. Yes, we are in a recession and that has really done a number on the jobs market. But, we have been offshoring jobs in this country for decades. Specifically, manufacturing jobs. Yes, we have clean air, clean water and a safer workplace but we have fewer, high paid, manufacturing jobs. The major reason for a business to offshore jobs is because it's cheaper to have it made overseas than it is here. All those environmental and worker safety laws add to the cost of manufacturing. Manufacturers have to hire people just to make sure that they are in compliance with all the environmental and safety laws. Our competition in China, India and other countries around the world don't have those laws so that's where all the jobs are going. Yes, we have clean air and water, here, but we're running out of jobs here and the air and water are still getting polluted over there. And if you want to make a safer work place allow workers the right to sue their employer if they get hurt on the job because of some unsafe practice, equipment or condition. You can't do that now. OSHA may fine a company if it finds something unsafe but they usually give them a chance to fix the problem first. If you do get hurt OSHA enforces a scheduled pay out. You can only get what OSHA allows. I wonder which way is cheaper for employers and costlier to the employee? The libertarian answer to the environmental problem can be found in this Youtube vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awG_hyixGfI&feature=related The interesting bit starts at the 3:50min mark if you don't want to watch the whole thing.
I too believe that Glass-Steagall should be reinstated and that it protected American wealth for many decades.
I don't think we should stop at regulating banks however. We also must protect our environment and our workers. Allowing workers to sue when they are hurt through unsafe practices sounds good to me.
The answer to not being able to compete with countries with lesser standards is to charge them tariffs, not to force our standards down. Americans have fought long and hard for the standards they enjoy, and should not allow more than a century of gains to be wiped out by the so-called global economy. FAIR trade before free trade. I address all of these points in the writing I linked to in my original post.
I would like to say that it cheers me to see these conversations going on, here and even in the media to some extent. It is about time we Americans begin discussing these issues in earnest, regardless of our viewpoint.
I didn't say don't regulate the banks. I said that the regulations we have are not being enforced because of crony capitalism. I did not say we should do away with clean air and water standards. I was just pointing out the unintended consequences of those laws. Yes we need to have environmental and worker safety parity tariffs. We also need to get tough with China. We can not sell products made in America to China we must build the factory over there if we want to sell to them.
I will not go into the specific recommendations here (google them, contact these guys) but if you have specific questions i will answer as best i can. I have no doubt that volker and munger are absolutely right and can fix the problems with the banks, etc. that got us into this mess...
While I think it's a long-shot getting Paul Volcker to give support to the protests, it would be awesome if he did. He was the only truly responsible Fed Chairman and has always been on the side of responsible regulation. Also, I think his support might help repel the small but unwanted Libertarian presence that seem to be convinced that we'll add "Abolish the Fed" to our demands.
do not be forced into creating demands by outside influence! there are great ideas in this thread all of which can be used(though runs on the banks are a very sharp double edged sword:)) please continue to build support and frameworks for an international movement before being narrowed into "demands" understand many of us are too old to "be there", we are nevertheless with you in spirit! dwain-ohm mani padme hum (allow wisdom to be your guide here)
1.Reform
The only 2 things that has everyone's support are; Reinstate Glass-Steagall(repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley) and overturn Citizens' United v. FEC(aka:corporate personhood) I feel like we need to design a 3rd one. Something like.. "Reinstate the Works Progress Adminstration"? Or.. "Let all Bush Tax Cuts Expire" Or maybe.. release Bradley Manning, but maybe just put him on house arrest? Or.. we could come up with a coherent and specific demand for transparency?
Add to that repeal the Commodities Futures Modernization Act.
I have read post after post and agree with most. The problem is that all these ideas for change will never get enacted unless we get true representative government back in Washington. Both parties are bought and paid for at present with no real hope that anything that gets done in the form of any legislative act is truly in our the 99% best interests. That is why we have created the Congress and Senate Reform Act 2012. Enactment of this would take the lobbyists, donors, corporations and media money out of the election process. It would set term limits and more. Please see the full act at http://www.everything4lessstore.com/congressreformact.htm Please share this as much as you can with all that you can. We have also made lots of printable materials available online. Please spread this message as the true and real first step in taking back our country. Unless this gets enacted FIRST all the rest of the ideas for change will NEVER get enacted. This is the logical first step and can be a clear message to the media.
We have already created the Congress and Senate Reform Act 2012 which will set us on the path to true representative government. This is what needs to change FIRST. Take the money out of elections and politics. You can read all the details of this act at http://www.everything4lessstore.com/congressreformact.htm
This is Phase 1 and this is what everyones message should be about getting enacted. All these other groups getting involved seem to have their own agenda and is getting away from the one true issue and that is we the 99% have not and are not being represented. Our government and politicians are being controlled by the rich 1% and this needs to end. Please pass this info along and get word to the media that this is our initial demand for change otherwise all these other issues will just get lost in the banter and maybe that is what the media wants. Keep the message simple and straight forward as our act proposes. Peace.
How to effect total change ? How to bring wall street to its knees? If you can follow these instructions, it will happen in several weeks: Wall Street runs on currency, mainly the USD. The USD is not 'real money', it is 'fiat currency', created and printed by the Fed Reserve/Treasury. It represents the "Full Faith of the ....American People". That is you, the 99%. You do not know it, because Wall St does not want you to know it, but YOU controll the USD. Literally, the 99% hold in their hands the USD. Those Dollars are stored in the banks, mainly the Big 5. The Big 5 store and 'control' 65% of the US economy....you the 99% control where you put those Dollars. When you control the flow and deposits of USD, you control 65% of the US Economy. In effect, and actually, you control the Big 5 through your deposits. You can bring any one of the 5 to their knees by controlling the depository Tier 1 Capital balances in any one of the Big 5. The Hedge Funds follow those Tier 1 balances minute by minute, and their reactions along the ETF1x,2x, and 3x, will effect the stock listing within hours of the Tier1 balances. HERE'S HOW: Organize the FaceB and Twitters into WHO Banks with Wells Fargo ? (WellsFargo is the easiest Big 5 target because it has the smallest group of depositors, so the FB/Twitter mass can be most effective proportionally. AFTER finding Who banks, and HOW MANY bank at WellsFargo, then set up the "RUN". "RUN THE BANK" : Instruct the depositors for a certain day, at 9AM to allow a full day RUN, and tell everyone to "WITHDRAW ALL FUNDS TO $1". This will reduce the Tier 1 Capital on deposit at WellsFargo Bank relative to depositor numbers. The Federal Reserve is obligated by law to address this as a bank failure or crisis. The Hedge Funds will go 'short' on WF by noon, the stock price will fall by 1PM in a dramatic fashion. INSTRUCT the FB/Twitter mass to deposit those same funds into their local Savings and Loans, into Credit Unions. The overall effect is to strip the cash balances from WF and put it into local control, so the local financial institutions now have the capital control, and they listen to the People, they too are the 99%. They will loan to people for business and homes and trucks, etc. The power shifts back into the local communities and out of big corp control. WHO LOSES: WF Shareholders, Board Members, etc. Depending on the numbers of Fb/Twitter depositors, you take out 30% to 40% of the Tier 1 Capital. When others realize their capital is at risk, they will RUN too, reducing the Tier 1 farther to perhaps 50% in days.
Two days later the " Leaders of Wall Street" are trying to make arrangements, pleading not to "RUN" BoA or Citi, or JPM. The Fed has a big problem, because the money supply has not gone down or up, but shifted to local control. The Fed has to let WF flounder about or close, because no one will deposit or put equity into it. Same thing for the other Big 4. The "Shorts" will move against the others and go "long" locals and regionals.
Thus, the 99% can control Wall Street, because Wall ST can no longer borrow from WF or CiTi or JMP, with capital from the People printed at Treasury and offered at 0% back to the Corps--- Wall St corps will have to apply to local Financial Institutions for finance(or do self finance with equity which they deplore).
You the 99% controll Wall St now-- if you can organize FB and Twitter to RUN THE BANK, it will work in days. Allow several weeks to organize, then RUN IT.
The Ultimate Deal ::--- REPEAL THE CLINTON ERA Regs creating multi purpose banks--- the Big 5-- that are Investment Banks, Lending Institutions, Insurance Companies, and service companies, whose sole purpose is to produce dividends at 15% taxation. Break up the 5 Banks that Bush-Paulson fooled the People into extending and protecting by the tarp funds in 2008.
Far from harming America, this is the single best thing the 99% can do for America--- take it back to the local people.
Follow this program " RUN THE BANK " and negotiate the Clinton Era Reform, and you will changed America.
The open-ended character of the protests and the absence of formal demands can actually contribute political momentum but also contains some risks. The Washington, D.C. approach is to narrow everything so it gets absorbed by various channels of atomization. At the same time, it is possible to support broader themes like "the peace dividend," "the Green New Deal," etc. that link issues. The ongoing wars, the dysfunctional energy system, the economic crisis, and ecological devastation are all problems that can be addressed with common solutions such as: converting defense firms to mass transit and alterantive energy, building inclusive and domestically anchored job creation platforms, reshaping trade policy to support local businesses, etc.
Examples: http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---ed_dialogue/---actrav/documents/publication/wcms_153352.pdf
http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=from_mass_transit_to_new_manufacturing
I saw recently that the speaker of the house doesn't have to bring a bill to vote even if a majority want it. That should be changed. Now if a majority of Republicans don't want to vote on it but most or all democrats do they don't have to have a vote. I don't know the exact numbers but if there are 235 Rep and 200 Dem then 113 Rep can keep a bill from being voted on. That should change. I think we should keep the electoral college way of electing presidents. I think it prevents an east versus west or north vs south split in the country and keeps the states relevant. I worry about states that elect their judges they are more prone to the influence of money..
CAPITALIST EVOLUTION - New Democracy
Human beings have started to develop cities as soon as they moved from hunter gatherers to the agriculture phase. Organising cities meant they had to form social structures to govern themselves and their resources. After the Greecs started democracy in Athens in 500 BC, Countries all over the world struggled with governmental models. Since the start of the industrial revolution in 1820 Britain, the world struggled with economical models. This all took place against the backdrop of the old class structure of the haves and have -nots. Through the ages of political and economic development and evolution, the time has come for a new system to save the day. Very soon, a new world order will arise. Part of the capital assits will flow from corporations to the consumers. Consumers who never before were able to take part in capital growth will now be empowered and uplifted. The zillions of capital in question is currently lying suspended and under utilised in corporations balance sheets and will now be unlocked for the benefit of the consumer and the brands. Plans are ready for the activation stage. The end of Plutocracy, the beginning of "New Democracy". Power to the Consumer !
I support term limits for all political offices. People have been accusing this movement of being made up of people who don't want to work, but actually that is what this is all about....Politicians who in for life and never want to work again. Vote down the congressional pension package.
Change your anthem to "Stand" Sounds Of Blackness from their - Evolution Of Gospel CD
Perhaps the only DEMAND that wall street cannot ignore is- CONSUMER DEMAND. I propose that the entire movement should be strongly urged to personally and as families and individuals to commit to cut our own wasteful spending.Politically,this noble act will set a precedent for the 1% to follow.But there's a whole lot more to this.Please read on. Let me state first that I vehemently oppose any outright boycotts,as they will do us all alot of harm.Many markets are too fragile to take a hit. After all,we want to see reform,and not destruction on wall st..Don't we? So here,s my idea! I'd like to see it called the "FUEL SABBATH". What I recommend is that everyone choose any one day of each week, {different days for each other should help to make this work} and on that day you shall not burn or use any gasoline {if you're a real trooper,cut energy use of many or all kinds}.You can buy all the fuel you want, you just can't burn it for one day per week.Remember,your neighbor's day is probably not the same as yours' so we can be good to each other and support one another to victory.I suggest that we keep this practice going for about 100 days or a fiscal quarter.Frankly, we should indefinitely! This practice should show a cut in demand of about 10 to 15%.When it hits the balance sheets on wall st.,I think that then, the 1% will know that they must serve the 99% with honesty and integrity and all else that makes America great.Personally,I hope they get really rich on that! Gasolime prices have taken a downtick already,and this could cause a further downward rally,if it does the party will have demonstrated it's strengths;all in the name of financial responsibility,energy conservation,neighborly cooperation, to name but a few. I hope this idea catches on,Please pass it around. I should also mention that wall st. is always watching for any signs of change in the market (a necessary practice for greedy,fearful,profiteers). If some "market watch"group even sees this as a "possible" future,we may see a drop in oil prices in a New York minute! I admit that I'm picking on the oil companys, but I think they can handle it. As a party.This could be seen as Our multi-billion dollar stimulus package to and for America. High fuel costs are very counterproductive to say the least. All The Best!, TAXIBRAD
While your heart may be in the right place, I'm afraid the oil companies have a powerful mechanism for making sure it doesn't succeed. The reason they're so powerful is because they're a cartel. They'll probably just collude to decrease the oil supply and create artificial scarcity which will maintain the high prices. The oil prices will likely continue to follow the market because it is designed to make sure they maximize what they can get from the people.
I have several points, the main one the Glass-Stegal Act being resurrected. Second would be term limits, and the third would be public finance for campaigns. I think we all can agree the two banking entities cannot be trusted when combined. We also need to get rid of the electorial college and make every vote count. We need to be able to lobby, that is part of the democractic process, but if the other items are addressed. And we need a separate Department of Governmental Ethics, with auditors, not appointed by government to police itself, but separate, with ha, Elizabeth Warren at its helm. That would never happen, would it? But we can dream.
"We also need to get rid of the electorial college and make every vote count." I'm going to have to disagree on that one.. I don't want to sound like TP but I believe that is a state rights issue.
"Department of Governmental Ethics, with auditors, not appointed by government to police itself, but separate, with ha, Elizabeth Warren at its helm." Now THIS is pure genius.. If there's one thing informed progressives can agree on, we all trust Elizabeth Warren. However, she's currently running her campaign for senator of Massachusetts and is somehow losing in the polls.
Elizabeth Warren is gaining in the polls, and is behind I think because she got in late. I read today that one of her opponents dropped out. She will win, so she couldn't be in charge of the Department of Governmental Ethics. But I am sure she would know someone that would.
Financial policies I would support:
(Explained in video by Nicholas Kristof) http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/10/02/opinion/100000001084589/advice-for-the-wall-street-protesters.html
Those are fine issues to deal with, but I don't think they do the most possible to affect the 'legal' corruption and bribery of our government officials. Nothing is going to ever change until we stop allowing this influence from powerful monied special interests.
Agreed, they more address the economic monopoly side of things.
As far as politics goes, I'd like to see public financing of elections to get private donations out of it altogether. Then our representatives can spend time listening to us instead of attending fundraisers. Congresspersons have to raise about $1000 a week.
MUST WATCH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pin8fbdGV9Y
My agenda: 1. FDR's unrealized Economic Bill of Rights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=effDfpKYcVo
I also could see benefits to FDR's Economic Bill of Rights, but I am much more interested in Number 2 which deals with keeping the people in power. What are 3 simple actionable items that could garner vast popular support while also having the largest impact on ending the 'legal' corruption and bribery of our elected officials by monied special interests.
Direct Democracy is kinda abstract. So I point out how it can be used:
On November 5th, 2011 remember "Mary Poppins" and the tuppence that started the run on the bank. Do the same. Move your savings to that local credit union. Time to teach the big banks a lesson.
Yes! Credit unions are so much better.
Could we target Bank of America in particular? We could ask people to move their money out of BoA until they stop foreclosing on and evicting families who were tricked into sub-prime mortgages. BoA has some of the dirtiest of those mortgages since they bought Countrywide in January 2008.
Hello SarahMA: I agree with you BoA is NOTORIOUSLY wicked in their banking practices and forget that honest hard working people need a place to live and raise their families. Hopefully, people coming together to demand a change/help will make them re-think their actions. Hard to believe that they are getting away with this and there were some rumors going around that they might lay-off 10-20 thousand workers.
November 5th, 2011. Time to start a run on the big banks.
Start there.
A good idea to let the monied interests know we are serious, but it doesn't directly address the 'legal' and open bribery that is currently allowed in our political system. This is a great side project though and I support you in spreading the word.
anna hazare ( india gandhi ) address corruption issue on wall street
With today's technology, representative government perhaps should be individual.
Those are interesting a good demands. My concern is with beginning by finding the ideas that can garner the most popular support from across the political spectrum. For example, I am concerned that eliminating the electoral college would be difficult, but banning lobbyist would be easier. We need to find an acceptable start for all of us to begin to regain our power united against the corruption and collusion that is 'legally' prevalent in our government.
We are a powerful movement. We must voice our opinions. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea.
Absolutely and I thank you so much for sharing your ideas. I am trying to take them all in and figure out which ones I personally think get most directly at the issue of corruption while not being politically isolating on a surface Left vs Right level.
Three suggestions:
So you have no problem with unlimited donations from monied interests swaying things a tad bit in a certain direction? Before we worry about paying down the national debt we need to decide on how to eliminate this 'legal' corruption of our political system.
I agree. That's #4 on my list. You try to come up with just three (3) things to do. :-)
That's my point though, let's focus on the corruption FIRST. Once we get rid of that we can actually begin to solve some of ridiculously huge list of problems in this supposedly modern country and world..
"Ending corruption" is NOT a measurable goal. Reducing the debt, "IS" a measurable goal.
Okay, my list is in random order. Let it go! Geez. I assume that by paying down the debt that would put a reduction on corruption because there would be much less money to spend frivolously.
I am asking for people to put forward 3 actionable ideas that would fit under the category of ending political corruption and 'legal' bribery.
So many good ideas coming out of this forum, too many to take in. But what impresses me most is the solidarity for this movement, and the pride I have in all of us that have joined in to fight to take our government back, for the people, by the people. Cannot say enough how proud.
Thanks for your support and taking in all the ideas! There are truly a ton of great ones. But this is the most important point from me- What are the 3 actionable items YOU would support? I totally understand if you need more time to research or think about it. But everyone needs to share their voice on this!
I have several points, the main one the Glass-Stegal Act being resurrected. Second would be term limits, and the third would be public finance for campaigns. I think we all can agree the two banking entities cannot be trusted when combined. We also need to get rid of the electorial college and make every vote count. We need to be able to lobby, that is part of the democractic process, but if the other items are addressed. And we need a separate Department of Governmental Ethics, with auditors, not appointed by government to police itself, but separate, with ha, Elizabeth Warren at its helm. That would never happen, would it? But we can dream.
I'm going to re post something i said before, seems to have gotten buried ...
Fund political campaigns with tax dollars. Yes there will need to be some discussion on exactly how to do this but i figure if we can send some one to the moon, this can't be to hard.
Remove lobbyists and special interest groups from Washington. Special interest groups and lobbyists should be allowed to have 0 contact with our politicians out side of an open public forum.
Make all political donations of any kind illegal.
These 3 things will put the power back in the peoples hands. We will be the ones that buy and own our greedy politicians. We can also do away with the Electoral collage. We have the technology and capability to count all of the votes and not just some of them.
The way i see it, We can discuss and debate the things we don't all agree on later. Let's fix the things we do agree on first.
Agreed. Good list, bring it to your local Occupy Group, explain why this needs to be done first, and see what they think about it too.
I truly believe that this nation requires regional government. We are simply too large to be administered out a small hamlet called Washington D.C. Frequently final decisions are made for a region by officials who have no roots in that region. This is unacceptable in my view. See link below for a VIABLE way to achieve this:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NationalConstitutionalConvention06
Aside from that I believe publicly funded elections are necessary to keep the big money out of elections as well as to allow lawmakers time to legislate instead of having to raise funds continually.
Finally, term limits. 2 terms in the Senate and 5 or 6 in the House should be good. Lengthen the House terms too to 3 or 4 years.
I agree on regional government. We have states for a reason and the more local that laws are written and implemented, the better. The federal government has pushed the limits of it's power for far too long.
Well I for one am not happy with living in a state that makes ballot access almost impossible. When states have the power you wind up with discrimination.
What state do you live in and how is ballot access almost impossible?
Check out Ballot Access News website. Great info there.
Oh, we're talking access to third parties to get on the ballot. I understand... I worked on a campaign last year to get a 3rd party candidate on the ballot and we fell well short of the needed signatures. It was frustrating since the two major party candidates didn't need really much of anything... but, the process gets your word out. Our two party system is definitely a major problem, though. It polarizes the issues too much.... but what to do about it?
Getting the word it is nice, but at this late stage of the game it just won't do with respect to political parties. Perot scared the powers that be in 1992 when he garnered 19% of the vote and I believe after that they vowed that they were going to make life more difficult for third parties(tougher ballot access) as well as third party voters(continued vote rigging).
Look no further than here. Pick any three.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
That list is a great start, but I have heard people on the Right taking issue with some of them. Which 3 of those would be able to garner the most popular support from across the political spectrum? We need to go out and talk to people from the Left, Right, Middle, and even Nowhere and see what they can get behind. And please also feel free to make the case to them what your 3 are- So what are your 3?
This would be my 3 that -may- also have support across the political spectrum:
Get the money out of the political system: congress enact legislation to protect our democracy by reversing the effects of the citizens united supreme court decision
Stop treating corporations as people: eliminate "personhood" legal status for corporation
Eliminate corporate/government incest: congress passing "revolving door legislation" legislation eliminating the ability of former government regulators going to work for corporations that they once regulated.
I like the whole idea of this post. But I could care less which political party likes which part. The hell with any of them. We do not need to satisfy the left or the right. These ideas will pass or fail based on their merit with the 99% not the parties that claim to represent them. That was in fact the mistake of the past..attempting to find middle ground with political parties that simply wanted to dominate the public. The only poll that makes any sense is one that goes directly to the 99% without trying to carve something you think political parties will accept..
I agree, when I say Left vs Right its not to entertain their demands but to get at the issues that would remove the corruption from our government first and foremost to regain our voice as a people. Everyone is caught up in their Left vs Right issues so we need to take a step back and find true common ground- which to me is the obvious ending of open and legal bribery of our elected officials by monied special interests.
1) Fire everyone in Washington D.C. (start over) 2) Dissolve the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac 3) Identify and Prosecute every Politician and Financial Executive involved with the Bankruptcy of our Nation-- prosecute them for TREASON and conspiring to undermine the security of the United States of America.
Is there an actual way to fire every politician or to even find laws showing they intentionally bankrupted the nation. The problem is that it is currently legal for our politicians to be bribed and corrupted. What are the simple, defined, actionable ways that could garner the most support and have the largest impact on reducing the special interests of monied powers in our government.
Well, since you sound like you are interested. We simply march on Washington D.C. using the voice of the Majority and simply tell them all to GO HOME. Tell them that they are a disgrace in the eyes of the American people. Then, the 1st law we draft states as follows: "Any representative of the United States of America found engaging in conversation with Lobbyists, Financial Institutions or Corporations will be tried for TREASON-- with the maximum penalty of DEATH applied." Don't you remember 1776?
We do still use the death penalty as a deterrent against people who commit crimes and there have even been recent executions against those with controversial or limited evidence in the past months. I understand your sentiment, but unfortunately I am against the death penalty. I may be able to agree with your sentiment if we update from 1776 to 2011 by changing the death penalty to life in prison.. This movement is not violent. Now garner support for this law, or I suppose it could be an amendment. It is absolutely a disgrace to the American people to be openly accepting bribes.
I agree. And I emphasize that DEATH would be the "maximum" penalty for TREASON. However, some would argue that death is far more humane than a life in prison. Can you imagine what would have happened if the Patriots of 1776 told the British, "We don't like what you are doing... so, we are going to build a prison and keep you there for life" ??? I think you know what I'm saying here... :oD
It's an interesting question and I am currently reading foucault's Discipline and Punish, so when I finish that I'll get back to you.
2 a. Get rid of the Mortgage Electronic Registrations System (MERS) created by the banks and go back to recording deeds at the county recorders office.
(1) Tax the $700 trillion derivatives market (2) Audit the Federal Reserve (3) Pressure the DOJ and SEC to investigate mortgage and accounting fraud (4) Amend the Bankruptcy Code to give bankruptcy judges greater discretion in renegotiating home loan modifications.
Our government needs a larger house of representatives. 435 is not enough to give voice to everyone and represent all views. We need to return to he original standard in which the number increased with population. 1 representative per 30,000 people. This will help eliminate the ridiculous gerrymandering of districts to skew elections and more accurately represent various local views. Perhaps the idea of containing all of our government representatives in one building in Washington DC is no longer workable.
We can't get 1 Republican and 1 Democratic politician to agree on anything... What in the world would lead you to believe adding more spoiled children to the mix would make it better ?
It would decrease the power of the two parties. The average person might be able to run and win without a political party.
That would be 10,000 representatives, I do not think that would work.
Why not? Present technology can enable it. It would have to be a different way of doing things of course, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work.
So how do we demand that this happens. Is there an action we can take? Is this already a law that just needs to be enforced? Should it be an amendment?
I still do have the problem, though, that having more government officials is really just having more corrupt government officials. So to me damaging the corruption needs to come first.
This is from wikipedia:
The only constitutional rule relating to the size of the House says: "The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand.Congress regularly increased the size of the House to account for population growth until it fixed the number of voting House members at 435 in 1911.
Its wouldn't require an amendment. It would be a change in the law. Maybe it doesn't have to be 1 per 30,000 people, but power is very consolidated in the present. For a person to represent 10,000,000 people requires a lot of money to campaign. To represent 100,000 would required much less money to campaign and be recognized.
Also we live in the age of the internet. We could have a system with many more reps than we could 200 years ago or even 20 years ago. Technology can make it work . It would make our system much more democratic.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-protest-idea-that-is-outside-the-box/ A Protest Idea that is Outside the Box
Pick a day and time on a national basis to recycle your cans and bottles at your local gas station-convenience stores. Creating a meeting place with your local neighbors who may feel the same way you do about the state of affairs we are in today. This will send a message to the big oil companies and local officials to how much discontents is out there.
Sounds good if you live in a suburb to at least start talking. I want to get specific ideas on how to get popular support behind simple actions that would significantly damage corruption and collusion in our government.
I think that the internet, films, investigative reporting, demonstrations and protest all have an important role in educating the great mass of people to vote the bums out of office. David
I think a good solution would be to create a Election Tax. The government collects a tax which goes into a fund that campaigners can use to fund themselves. They will no longer have corporate backers or union backers, therefore no longer oweiing them favors.
The government will be the voice of the people once more and the economy will function just the same.
" Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions.... (((The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%.")))....
Why don't we focus on that first. Once we remove the greed and corruption of the 1% from our government then we can move to the tough issues we don't all agree on.
Just my opinion.
Please provide 3 actionable items, that is what my post asked for.
How about i do you 1 better and provide 3 that don't impinge on any ones political or social views ?
Fund political campaigns with tax dollars. Yes there will need to be some discussion on exactly how to do this but i figure if we can send some one to the moon, this can't be to hard.
Remove lobbyists and special interest groups from Washington. Special interest groups and lobbyists should be allowed to have 0 contact with our politicians out side of an open public forum.
Make all political donations of any kind illegal.
These 3 things will put the power back in the peoples hands. We will be the ones that buy and own our greedy politicians.
We can also do away with the Electoral collage. We have the technology and capability to count all of the votes and not just some of them.
Thank you, I like those three as they are simple and also things that can garner support from across the political spectrum. Now if you can, perhaps work on clearly defining each of those items and showing how they can be achieved/implemented through a tactic or action.
And yes we do need to gather more support before we take these actions, but this is the sort of thing that could be used to show people something they could get behind.
There are many people smarter and more knowledgeable on these subjects then i am. While i would love to figure out ways to accomplishing the things i said, I'm not capable of doing it.
I'm just a simple small business owner.
Well you could ask the people you work with what they think? Do you know anybody with legal or political experience. If not go out into your community and meet them and explain these issues. We can't just sit back and wait for someone else to do this!
I agree...
I know people with legal experience but they are mostly contract lawyers and business lawyers. They would not really the ones to go to. As for talking about this, what i said in my reply to you is something i have been saying for many years and i have said it to many people. Have yet to find some one that disagrees with it . lol
all great ideas I think 100% of the 99% can agree on.
we cover this in our draft petition of grievances at https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Please don't eliminate the Electoral College. Perhaps reform is desirable, but abolition is not. The mathematics of the Electoral College are such that it combats extreme political ideologies (I won't lecture on it here, but don't take my word for it. Look up the article "Math Against Tyranny," readily available via Google). I think we need more of that, not less.
The principle of "one person one vote" is appealing, but I would argue that it's not necessarily ideal, and - especially in the current political atmosphere - it warrants rigorous scrutiny.
I understand the point you are making, i don't agree with it. The electoral collage has kept a specific political party that starts with an R alive. That specific political party has done a lot of harm to this country over the last 50 years. They have forced social and economic views on this country that the majority of people do not agree with. My opinion is that the Electoral Collage does more harm then good.
like i said, i do understand where you are coming from and i agree with you to some extent. Also, Doing away with the Electoral collage is not something i would fight for. the first 3 things i listed are.
People need to understand fractional reserve banking, Collateralized debt obligations, Credit default swaps, and leverage.
That's great advice and maybe you should be a teacher, but I am looking for 3 simple actionable items that could garner large support and be an initial success in at least beginning to regain all of our political voices as a United people.
To me this begins with election reform, but I want to hear what you have to say.
Add to the list Securitization, pooling of mortgage backed securities. Right minded protesters were given an interview on CNN. They had difficulty explaining their position. As to your three ideas please add Corporate Law and Banking Reform.
Those are all definitely areas where corruption can and does 'legally' occur. What are the first 3 defined and actionable steps we can take to make the largest impact?
The first one sounds good, but shouldn't we be focusing on making sure that our elected officials can no longer be openly and legally bribed by monied interests being either larger corporations or lobbyists.
Your thought about public financing for election is a tremendous first step. If you have not seen this documentary it is a MUST WATCH for everyone who wants to diminish the corporate takeover of America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pin8fbdGV9Y
Pass HR 676 the medicare for all bill
create a National Resource Defense Amendment to protect the environment and aim us toward Zero Waste and Zero pollution. Protect the water air and soil for food production and animal habitat from poisons and pesticides
Marriage Amendment that says (with precedent) the right of contract is not to be violated. Those IN the contract of marriage should be the ones to decide the rules of that marriage. Same sex marriage and polygamy should be protected.
Thank you for providing 3 items, but I must say that I don't think any of those issues even touch on the idea of corruption and collusion within our government.
This is actually suggestion #2, #3, and #4. #1 is the Equal Access Amendment which I'm trying to get everyone's help in shaping it. It covers ballot access to donations, so... It seems my new page has been buried. I can only find it with notifications.
Thinking only of small individual issues will not solve our biggest problem and that is the corruption by politicians by the rich elite. Until that is changed all the rest is wasted time and energy.
I've been thinking about our election system. I know there are many groups working on different things Like getting Corporations to not be people. And lowering the signature count to gain ballot access. I think we must do something to elevate the voting system to our most paramount activity in the country. So here is what I have in mind it's just a start, not fleshed out but...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/152631684794770/doc/216291868428751/
EQUAL ACCESS AMENDMENT
Whereas Voting is the most important activity in a civilized society. Whereas the Declaration of Independence states we are all equal. Whereas the substance of life can cause us to be unequal such as our location, finances, education, it is necessary to set in motion boundaries to keep our elections equal for all citizens.
Ballot Access: All citizens should have equal access (meaning the same requirements) to creating a political party and achieving a ballot line. The Board of Elections should accept applications for political party status requiring only proof of actually behaving as a political party. statement of beliefs, 12 meetings per year, agendas, minutes and attendance sheets to prove the meetings took place. All who meet political party status shall have a ballot line and attend debates.
Access for non party citizens: Citizen wishing to run without a party... must register at the BOE. They must convince people to write in their names on election day
Debates: The Board of Elections will schedule a certain number of debates for all parties who have achieved status by a deadline (same day in every state) and all citizens who have registered without a party. The debates shall be afforded the status of the Olympics in that it will not be some short one or two hour activity. Location of the debate can be done by raffle or bidding. In attendance of the live event will only be media personnel. Any media may attend. Partial citizens will not be allowed in audible distance of the debates. Each Candidate will be given equal time to be used as they see fit. Let's say 90 minutes. The number of questions will be determined before hand. Candidates may know the questions beforehand.
Candidates may use powerpoint or some such device to illustrate their answers. All powerpoint sources must be identified. After the question is placed on the screen candidates may answer. The order of the answerer will not be as important because all answers will be recorded. The candidate may speak as long as they like but they will be using their own 90 minutes. Any time a candidate speaks they must turn on their timer to turn on their mic. If they run out of time before the debate is over they will no longer be able to speak.
In-Kind donations will have their value determined at the board of elections not to exceed the value of $960. (so basically if someone wants to let you use their room the rental cost would be listed as a donation) A business may make an IN-Kind donation by going to the board of elections office of the county where the item will be used. (a certificate will be issued verifying what was registered for use and the value) A business may not make cash donations.
Bills: Bills shall be single issue. Bills shall be addressed in the numerical order as presented. Bills shall not be set aside on a partisan basis. Not to be addressed until the party in power supports it enough to bring it out to committee.
Voting: Instant Runoff voting shall be used to allow citizens the greatest opportunity to choose whom they want. Ballots shall be dot filled paper ballots that can be counted electronically and maintain a paper trail.
Sounds good, but I'll need further convincing that such a significant change is necessary or even possible to get enough support from the majority of people. I guess I am looking for simple and wide-reaching actions that a lot of people could get behind as a starting point of what can be achieved as a united people as we demand our rights to get our voices back.
I think Michael Moore said it best when he said" do you think two political parties represent accurately the thinking of 3 billion (or however many are in the US)people?"
If we can participate in our elections we believe at least SOME of our ideas will be put into play.
I just really think we need to address the unbelievably 'legal' corruption that goes on in our government. Until we do this, any political party could be corrupted by monied interests.
Greens won't that's just the way we roll.
You can't convince me that even the Green party wouldn't be corrupted in our current political environment.
we have elected Greens, They are not trading their votes for money.
Well I'll look more into it, but I still see no reason why not to use this movement to unite the people behind making it ILLEGAL for our elected officials to openly accept bribes..
That is already against the law. The problem is prosecuting .
Aren't there lawyers in the Green party? Let's start prosecuting!
Just because you have a lawyer doesn't mean you have a winning prosecution.
This is our proposal with a start of 20 ideas to be voted on by the people.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
the99declaration@gmail.com
What are your personal top 3 that will have the largest impact?
A complete lifetime ban on accepting all gifts, services, money, directly or indirectly, to any elected or appointed officials from any person, corporation, union or other entity that the public official was charged to regulate while in office.
A complete reformation of the United States Tax Code to require all citizens to pay a fair share of a progressive, graduated income tax by eliminating loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies (e.g. oil, gas and farm) and ending all other methods of evading taxes.
This is from https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ which propose electing a "shadow congress" to vote on a petition of grievances.
Sounds solid, number 3- while I agree with it- could initially turn some people off who are fundamentally against raising taxes. If we remove the possibility of corruption from our government then perhaps we can actual use our voice to determine what should be done about the Tax Code
We would like to elect a group of delegates from the 99% to have a convention or congress on July 4th to created, debate, vote and approve a list of grievances and a platform of values. This is just a start but we don't have much time to take advantage of the world attention on this movement. We also want to get a formal document stating what the 99% stand for BEFORE the 2012 election so we can effect change.
Here is our proposal for immediate action:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Grievances are fine, but they are also varied and start to become Left/Right political. I'm looking for us to address the systematic corruption by no longer allowing 'legal' bribery of our elected officials. Would you allow a police officer to be openly bribed? This needs to be done first.
that is in our proposed declaration. please see
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I support this endeavor.
the systems works just fine, we just need to learn how to use it to out benifir. It would not surprise me if the enemy ( international bankers) want to use We the People to force a constitutional convention. A con con would be a very bad thing at this stage of the game.
If the systems were fine all these people would not be sleeping out in the cold.
The People do not understand the system because the masters of society (international banking cartels) will not allow us to be taught how the banking system works AND how We the People can use it to our benefit. Its because they are using our credit/wealth without our knowledge. The truth will set you free....
The system is not just fine. If you think we'd be better with with small government and less taxes or big government and more benefits, neither one will change the fact that those with the most political power (money) will still have complete control and gain a disproportionately large benefit from our country's policies. Can't you see this yet?
I can see you do not understand the system, for if you did you'd realize you were a millionaire.... The wealth is in the names of the people, the trouble is the government is in control of the money and they refuse to teach us how to access our funds they control. This began in 1933 when gold was confiscated and completed in 1964 when you could no longer redeem federal reserve notes for lawful money(gold or silver) just look at a federal reserve note printed prior to 1964, they say they you can redeem them for lawful money.
This adds nothing to what my post is attempting to do.
1) force the trustees of we the peoples trust fund to act in our behalf and fully instruct the people how to access their trust funds.
thats would be pretty much all that would be needed to be done. The People with their new found wealth would do the right things after that
Henry Ford once said " the people of this nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning"... Well the American people now know how the banking and monetary systems work in this country and I am one of them. I know where the wealth of the American people is hidden! My Idea is to teach everyone willing to learn just how the banking and monetary system works in the USofA. then let the people use their pens to access their funds being held by the United States. House Joint Resolution -192! it was the bankers answer to Senator Charles Lindberg Sr. chanres of treson in 1913. Its about time We the people learn how to use the set off provided us in HJR-192
So teach, how do I use my pen? I mean I thought I asked for a detailed serious discussion. If you want to teach then actually say something.
i can not teach the whole movement myself. I'd need a few accountants and lawyers to verify for everyone what i'm saying. also need some resources. its a plan i can not do myself. if the movement thinks its a good idea then the people will find me and the resources will come.
Well start a thread and garner support. This is not the place for that, I'm seeking 3 specific, simple, actionable items that will garner larger popular support from across the political spectrum while also addressing the corruption of our government by monied interests.
Here's an idea: vote.
The Tea Party is still relevant today, because after they had their rallies and gave their speeches, they went home and voted.
There was big money donated to the Teaparty which allowed for the running of candidates and advertising of the candidates. If one doesn't take money from corporations... Its a little bit more difficult to vote if the person you want to vote for isn't there.
I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that the money that elected Obama came mostly from individual investors, not corporations.
Not all of it. His campaign was NOTED because it was the first time of collecting SO MUCH with SO LITTLE increments, but he got large donations from friends AND businesses. But I don't care I didn't vote for him. I want the people I believe will represent me to be elected. I want voting reform. Then I can hope the elected ones will look into banking reform. (Although at this point we don't have to wait for that since we have the attention we can ask for banking reform now)
While people here are wasting time on rationalizing why they don't need to vote and fantasizing about election reform that will benefit them (how could it if nobody votes?), conservatives have been using the political power that they gained through voting to enact election reforms that will benefit them.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830
They were co-opted by big money and voted for candidates that are still just as corrupted and in collusion with special interests as any other. We need to band together to figure out the systematic and structural problems that allow for our government officials to be bought. Would you allow a police officer to be bribed?
You see the Tea Party's candidates as "corrupt", but the Tea Party is succeeding at making government more responsive to their demands. Complaining that they have a disproportionate influence is the same thing as acknowledging that government really IS responsive, and that your vote CAN count.
Really? What is the government doing that is more in line with their Demands? Do you mean moving towards smaller government? Well guess what, that's just appeasement, and the Left would do the same and be just as happy to simply see larger government. But no matter what minor shifts we the people get to satisfy our tiny political will, the special interests of the most powerful people in this country will buy and pay for those elected officials in either a small or large government to ensure that the fruits of our country's labor do not return to benefit any of us.
What has the Tea Party accomplished? Have you already forgotten the near-shutdown of the federal government because of the debt ceiling?
give all immigrants right to work here and pay taxes. I am not talking about amnesty but legal ground to work and have responsibilities like every citizen. Corporations are behind of illegals, they like cheap labor to increase profit. No mistake a lot of "conservatives" are rich today because of illegals working for them.
who exactly cashes those checks sent to the ups office? life for a techno-protester is a little harder than rebooting your laptop. people learn from their mistakes-purchasing homes they cant afford, taking out expensive student loans instead of working through college, going to a community college for two years, etc
Ambiance Music for my Message (grin):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw4wEu2u3P4
FIRST: Abolish - and I mean ABOLISH, DECIMATE, PULVERIZE, NAPALM the heck out of - Corporate Personhood. (This is, in my opinion, aside from Greed Itself, is THE VERY ROOT of a very sick, psychopathic and most dangerous tree. Its core needs a few iron nails punctured into it to then be followed by vigorous chopping and pronto! - Chop-chop! Let's do it!! WE'VE GOT THE POWER!)
SECOND: ENACT, ENFORCE Sustainable Development/Environmental Laws with EXTREME PREJUDICE against ANYONE (and I mean ANYONE) who transgresses said laws as, when they do, they are slowly murdering us all so The Death Penalty could perhaps serve us all well here, for the very first time. DOWN WITH THESE LOCUST/PARASITES exploiting OUR land's natural resources for profit (air, water, seeds, soil, animals, environment) until all they leave behind are arid deserts! Down with these People! I don't want them on this planet - Point blank! I want these freaks OUTTA MY GENETIC POOL - NOW!! Schnell!!
THIRD: FREE EDUCATION FOR ALL!! If we don't invest in each other and further allow GREAT MINDS to become like stagnant water, we will only end up putting the STINK in our own EXTINCTION!
Using such extreme verbage only alienates and perpetuates the views of some that you are as extreme as what you would like to replace. All ideas need to be discussed and common ground formed for the benefit of all and not just what your idea is on our role in nature. The exploitation of land that you refer to could be use against a little farmer. Is he not exploiting the land for his benefit? Do we not as a species exploit water for our benefit? Trying to employ the death penalty is extreme. And exactly who is going to be judge, jury and executioner. I agree that we should not be polluting our air and water but even lighting a fire by your definition could be considered bad and the death penalty invoked. Sorry but extremism on any level is dangerous and counter productive.
So by free education, you mean more than just free libraries filled with books and free access to everything on the internet?