Forum Post: people pretending to help
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 20, 2011, 5:05 p.m. EST by flip
(7101)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
what is going on here? there are many people on this site who seem to want to help or want to understand what is happening. what most of them really want it seems, is to be disruptive and divisive - anyone else feel this way?
I happen to be one of those that you speak of...I haven't tried to be disruptive...I'm from a very small town and don't have the slightest idea what you folks are doing and came here to find out...Since you obviously want no questions asked, I believe I came to the wrong site...I just had a very good conversation here on these forums and thought I would read and ask some more questions, while putting in what I felt, too...But it sounds to me that I'm not in the exclusive 99% club I guess...Do I need to fill out an application or something?...Do I need a sponsor, or a mentor first?...You folks are becoming really confusing..Any ways, sorry I was so disruptive and divisive...Was really here to find out what is going on.
you are making my point here - in no way did what i say provoke this response - ".Since you obviously want no questions asked, I believe I came to the wrong site...I just had a very good conversation here on these forums and thought I would read and ask some more questions, while putting in what I felt, too...But it sounds to me that I'm not in the exclusive 99% club I guess." so what is it - are you one of those people i mentioned or do you really want info about what is happening and how we can move this thing forward - the ball is in your court - which side are you on? howard zinn said " you can't stand still on a moving train!"
You realize you just responded to a single person as if that person speaks for the entire movement, even after you had (apparently) beneficial discussions with others?
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
This forum is indeed not the right place for that i think. It's better to go to a near by occupy camp and talk to people in person.
imho
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Read this: https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/response/taking-action-reduce-burden-student-loan-debt
Yes, but if you come here, you won't find any pretending. The KTC is real and ready to help!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
Yes, I know all about those kind of trolls/people. They act helpful or they may act like they want to know more about the movement, but they are either disruptive or they are energy vampires who suck off of your life blood (energy). I don't waste too much time with them.
Yes! Go to themultitude.org if you want to be on a site where people truely want to help.
I will go ahead and presume I'm one of the people you're talking about.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some of us actually give a damn. Is that so foreign a concept to you?
Here's another trend. It is a feigned amazement that anyone could agree with the key messages of ows but disagree with the tactics currently being undertaken. Is that really such a difficult concept to grasp?
I think it is not. I think it is actually a form of peer pressure and manipulation against questioning anything about the movement. Back in the 60s certain people would shout "America, love it or leave it." Today, it is fast becoming "OWS, love it or leave it." I personally find this frustrating and against my better judgment it keeps me coming back here.
no time to really respond in depth but i don't think you read well - nothing that i said would lead to conclusions you reached
I would love to help a genuine movement with the right intent.. What is the intent??? When i read the forum rules i saw a obvious bastardising of the movement. I will always say what i beleive to be true which is the occupy movement is devicive and disruptive of any genuine freedom movement..I still support its principles.
it is not perfect, of course, i think it is on the money but do you see anything better? where do you put your energy - sitting on the couch complaining is not good enough for me.
I put my energy in finding out whats wrong and looking on how to fix it. I beleive the peaceful solution is in the Law courts.. The governments purpose is to serve and protect when we are forced to serve them and they protect their intrests from us then they can claim no legitimacy.
I refused to consent to this shit years ago.
the courts have been helpful sometimes but history shows me that they are usually on the side of the status quo
True..but if enough people used the courts to expose the facts and demand justice it is possible that some thing would have to give..If it doesnt then at least it would be like a disclosure saying we are in a state of tyranny.
there is an interesting book called "black robes, white justice" - lots of ways to affect change - lawyers have done great work in the courts
Welcome to the internet. It's 99% B.S., if you haven't noticed yet. Don't take anything on the internet seriously, ever.
i use the internet every day - the sites i go to are not bs but i am sure there is lots out there
All of it is B.S. It's just a reproduction of real things. The only thing that is real is the electricity flowing through the power lines and phone lines. The rest is purely what you interpret it to be. There was a time when Journalists reported stories first hand. Now most of the news is second hand opinion and selective quoting. It's all very misleading, unless you want to be misled. If the internet wasn't B.S., we'd all be using our real names.
nonsense - there is much that is misleading but to call it all bs is childish - go to democracynow.org then tell me your thoughts on todays journalists
It is childish. But that's what Old people do, believe everything they see on the internet. That's how they end up with computer viruses lol
i was a it surprised at how stupid your comment was until i realized we are on the internet - young man
Exactly.
you have made your point - well done - what the hell are you doing up at this hour?
I work over nights
go to sleep - and get off the internet - it rots your brain
I grew up with the internet. I use it for what I need to use it for. I also make everything I do online links back to my website, so i can sell T-shirts and make money.
i might buy a t shirt that said "i support bad conduct" - we all have to make money - that is the system we live in at the moment
Certainly there are kibbitzers here. There always are on a site like this. No getting around it. There are also I guess what you'd call trolls or people who really are disruptive, who clearly do not share the values of OWS and know that they don't and are merely here because they have nothing better to do and to annoy everyone else. I don't know. There may be other motivations. I don't know what motivates people who want to get into arguments with people whose basic values they don't share, but there they are.
I do think that there really are a lot of people who come on this site who are curious about OWS, though given all the occupations there are around the nation I don't know why they don't take the time to go to one of them where they would get a much better feel of the movement live.
yes - well said - i agree with all of that - seems to me that there are too many people who just want to be ball breakers in one way or the other - anyway as you said - there they are!
yes, the game has changed, now we are being offered and argued idiotic advice.
the new troll game of late is to pretend to advise us.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
does someone pay these people - they can't do this for fun or can they - they also seem to have lots of time on their hands. is there a better place to discuss what is happening? i am old - i have seen a lot of protest in my life and this is our best chance - i would like to do what i can to make it work.
yes, in fact many of these trolls are paid.
others are not... its impossible to tell whos who, but we do know that there are assorted paid trolls...
well it is pretty clear that some people want to help and others just want to cause trouble - in all sorts of different ways - this movement is very important - we all have to do what we can to help it grow - nothing is perfect and lots of competing interests but the main thrust of advocating for the 99% is correct
Please provide evidence to the stated as fact "trolls are paid". I'm not defending trolls, just trying to clarify facts vs what many post as fact. Thank you.
Exxon pays trolls. Israel Pays trolls. Dozens of corporations and governments have paid trolls. The republican party was found to have paid trolls. This is old news, and not exactly the kind of thing i keep notes on.
A significant fraction of our trolls are probably paid trolls. There are reality tests you can conduct to determine if a troll is paid or not , but they tend not to ever be 100 percent conclusive.
Unless they mess up, which can happen.
http://74.6.117.48/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=paid+trolls&fr=mcafee&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=paid+trolls&d=4820336637642707&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=48ead2ae,3bfe557b&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=7sfUfDonvfVoVhhEfxfdmQ--
sites which go into or link to details on this seem to end up missing from the net.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/21/978170/-20-Habits-of-Paid-Trolls
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2010/12/are-right-wing-trolls-paid-to-sabotage.html
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I have a copy of the explanation I will be keeping right Here
thanks - don't have time to do more than skim this now but it makes sense - the dems - you know i think i dislike the dems more than the right - they pretend to be on the side of the people - thanks again
Yes
thank god - the tactic seems to have changed from angry attacks to some sort of smarmy debate. i was at the park in nyc and there was a well dressed young man running the same routine - i talked to him for a while (he was harassing a young kid with a sign) - he was well educated and informed but would not really engage in an honest discussion. he debated kind of like a politician - changing the subject when cornered etc. i find this site difficult - kind of like dating - you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a princess!
Yeah it is like they keep running in circles trying there same old tactics.They are so lost in the sauce. They have used the same arguments for years and they don't like it when people point out how wrong they are
very frustrating to me - is there a better site - how do you find better people to discuss things with?
There are other sites although I haven't yet spent enough time on them to see how the discussions are going but plan to real soon. Here's a few:
http://themultitude.org/ http://occupyr.com/ http://citicommons.com/ http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
thanks - i will check them out - i was also told to click on the nycga tab at the top of the site - the discussions there are much better. i signed in etc but couldn't get on last night - will try later
The 99% includes all kinds of different opinions. I seriously doubt their is any evidence of paid trolls. It's just people in the "99%" who don't agree with the movement and resent the 99% slogan.
then why waste your time - and they put in lots of time - i also doubt they are paid but it is weird - hard core democratic party supporters trying to sway the thinking - that would make sense to me- richardkentgates response seems to point in that direction
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The forum post describes the millennial generation exactly. Lots of bark and whining and entitlement issues and no action. It's easier to sit on your ass and post here in support. It's hard to actually do something. It annoys me to see videos like the pepper spraying incident that just happened and you can clearly see in the video that there is a 2:1 ratio of people video recording the incident to people who actually sat there in defiance. I disagreed with the protesters in that instance but I commend their courage to an extent and it pisses me off to see every idiot in the crowd pull out the camera phones thinking they are going to be a youtube star instead of sitting down with their colleagues in unity and support. It's all about that ego."I totally gotta catch this and tell all my facebook friends I was there!"
i don't get your thinking - one part of all protest movements is that some people decide to sit down and get arrested - those who can't afford to do that (like me - i have to get the grand children in the morning!) stand by and watch. i think you are way off base here - go to a demo and see for yourself.
That's just an excuse. You can make time but you have grand children which might make you a boomer which means you want all the benefits of the system and not have to pay anything which is counter to everything we should be fighting for now so I doubt you are of any help anyway. Thanks for screwing everything up for me and my generation.
thanks, you are making my original point better than i could - you either do not understand much about what is going on or you just want to confuse the issue - stupid or quisling - which are you? your generation - and what have they given the world - take a look at 1968 - read a bit instead of watching fox
I don't watch FOX news but that's a pretty childish generalization to make for a man with grand children. I hope you sleep well knowing your lack of self control will make their lives much more difficult.
oh - poor young man - stung by my very harsh words - you are the one i was talking about in the beginning - just making nonsense and causing trouble for people who are trying to change a shitty system. my grandchildren are great thanks - yes - they too cry once in a while when i raise my voice to stop them from doing something stupid - but then they are 2 and 4 - your excuse?
If you want to see what caused the "shitty system" just look in the mirror. Your generation took every good about this country and twisted it on its head. You took a once prosperous nation and dismantled it with your entitlement programs. Now your grand children will have a hard life when they come of age thanks to your lack of self control. When they turn 18 and complain that they can't find a job I hope you tell them the truth. Grandpa needs to live a cushy life at your expense, sorry dem the breaks. With any luck they will rebel against your bullshit and be actual productive members of society unlike yourself.
boy are you stupid - read some history kid - fdr come to mind - stop watching fox. you are the guy i was talking about - go play somewhere else. spread you shit on glen becks website- by the way did read about the $700 billion lent to the banks - can you read - start - now - you are in trouble - 1968 boy - read about it and then read about 1920 - then read bout the banks - stop bothering people. are you being paid or do you do this dumb shit for nothing?