Forum Post: OWS - What is the solution?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 1:04 a.m. EST by Pope
(52)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I'm a Navy vet, current Federal Government employee, father of two and happily married. I'm 30 years old and come from a meager upbringing. Despite adversity in my life and making poor decisions I now provide well for my family and myself. I am a fierce supporter and defender of the Constitution. I see OWS protesters with legitimate complaints but with no solutions. I also see a lot of socialists, marxists, Nazis, Communists, and even former KKK members supporting this movement. I say that because it worries me. My question: What is your solution and what do you hope to obtain?
have ye seen in Baboons
OWS is making a new system to replace the old ones.
We may never be able to prove, through logic, that direct democracy, freedom and a society based on principles of human solidarity are possible. "We can only demonstrate it through action. In parks and squares across America, people have begun to witness it as they have started to participate. Americans grow up being taught that freedom and democracy are our ultimate values, and that our love of freedom and democracy is what defines us as a people—even as, in subtle but constant ways, we’re taught that genuine freedom and democracy can never truly exist."
http://occupywallst.org/article/enacting-the-impossible/
I am also a Navy Vet, I am a father of two with six grandchildren. This movement will surely attract people from various backgrounds some of which we would not approve of.
I believe we have to get over our differences. We may have an oppurtunity to change the course of human history.
Greed has been the cause of many of the problems we face. We must learn to overcome greed.
It is not going to be easy and it will take some time but together people can work together to make the world a better place.
OWS may just be the place to start.
The problem is not an American problem it is a global problem.
The first place we should try to reform should be the United Nations and the international court of justice.
The 1% own the multinational companies they think and act globally we must also think and act globaly
If one child dies of poverty we are all shamed.
The first place we should try to change should be our mind. Everybody should act locally.
Well said sir. I think we should renounce our membership to the UN and become a neutral party. Without our support of global alliances we empower our Nation to focus on itself and revitalize America and Americans. We need to focus on our children here at home first and have faith in God that He will take care of the rest.
I wish there was a God it would be all so easy.
We cannot leave anyone behind so we must focus on all children in need.
Especially the children of coming generations.
Well sir, I do not wish to debate religion but this is why America is so fractured and entangled with class warfare. Focusing on every child is an impossible venture. Focusing on our children however is a very real and attainable goal. Once we have that down, then maybe we can look to the rest of the world.
I don't know about you but my children are safe, well fed and live in freedom.
I am worried about their children and corporate greed which is a threat to them and the planet. So it would be nice to be able to focus on just my children but the threat is global.
We have to learn to share this planet with all. Not just looking after just our children but all children.
I meant the American children. I don't believe in a utilitarian view that what is good for all is good for one. I believe in the individualist viewpoint that way when there is failure, which is inevitable, it lies squarely on that one individuals shoulders. Making America strong will help to ensure our childrens futures. We haven't been so weak since right before the Louisiana Purchase. If this OWS goes wrong it could mean the end of our Nation as we know it. We should tread very carefully with this movement and not give in to careless idealism.
That's the problem with America they don't even know that they are in the 1%.
They are a big part of the problem. Until you are willing to share you will always have problems.
America is sucking up the planet's resources faster than any other country.
We all need to tighten our belts.
Nothing wrong with idealism it is what we are lacking.
Good Luck
I do believe China and India are sucking up the majority of the worlds resources and we have enough of everything here at home to sustain us for at least 300 years. But, that's really not relevant. What is relevant is that your statement plays our country as a villain or culprit whereas we are being taken advantage of and having our Constitution systematically dismantled by foreign investment banker cartels which use retards like Al Gore to spread a hysterically ridiculous myth, prop him up by awarding him nobel peace prizes, and refuse to acknowledge the coalition of 400+ world renowned scientists that have called him out on his bogus claims whilst he uses more energy in one year than most Americans will use in the next 20 years. We are a great good people and we need not blame ourselves for anything other than not believing in ourselves and quit worrying about the rest of the world.
Hi Pope, China and India combined make up at least one third of the world's population so it is not surprising that they are using up a lot of the world's resources. But percapita the US is way out in front.
People must consume to survive, and the world’s poorest will need to increase their level of consumption if they are to lead lives of dignity and opportunity.”
While the consumer class thrives, great disparities remain. The 12 percent of the world’s population that lives in North America and Western Europe accounts for 60 percent of private consumption spending, while the one-third living in South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa accounts for only 3.2 percent.
The consumer society has strong allure and carries with it many economic benefits, and it would be unfair to argue that the advantages gained by an earlier generation of consumers should not be shared by those who come later. Indeed, lack of attention to the needs of the poorest can result in greater insecurity for the prosperous and in increased spending on defensive measures. The need to spend billions of dollars on wars, border security, and peacekeeping arguably is linked to a disregard for the world’s pressing social and environmental problems. Link: http://www.worldwatch.org/node/810
Whaf youre failing to realize is those "poor" people are self sufficient agricultural nations that may not want to participate in our way of life. Given our current example I cant say I blame them. We were the same before the industrial revolution and that is when our greates history was written, ie: the Louisiana Purchase. We had it better because of our republic and if they were smart they would have one too.
article 5 convention, new political party, a paradigm shift centered on science and knowledge and truth.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
What type of science? That's a lot of links to a solution. Can you clarify it in a short message?
sociology, civil engineering, game theory, systems theory, political science, formal conversational logic...no. you should bother to click the links, thats what they are for.
I don't have the time, I'm headed to bed but maybe I will tomorrow. I suggest if you wish to reach more people with a message that is resonating you try to sum it up as best you can. Just some constructive criticism from someone who is also disgusted with the way this country is going and has thought of trepidation regarding radical new movements.
I have not met any nazis, communists, kkk members at any protests, and for that matter not everyone in the movement are liberal dems either. for the most part I am meeting moderate average working americans who feel they no longer have a voice in our democracy. They work their whole lives only to have their pensions taken away right before retirement and then have their houses forclosed because they listened to our government tell them to be part of the "ownership society". We simply wish to restore this countyr to a true democracy. tha tis one where the 99% of americans get to have their voices heard rather than be muted by the latest supreme court ruling granting personhood status to corporations. The solution is a little harder to see as it is not as simple as having one policy change. The solution is to get a discussion started in america where we all listen openly to each other and realize that we all have the same goal...that is to live a happy life. It is not about getting bogged down in manufactured divisive political issues such as gay rights and abortion. It is about finding those areas in which we all can agree on that is tha t99% of americans have had no voice for too long.
I would suggest sound money which would be the catalyst to maintaining and increasing our standard of living as a clear message. However, it is simple to say "Just follow the Constitution and repeal any unconstitutional legislation."
This is one reason i prefer to take a step back from the movement, we have a great country, brothers and sisters have fought and died for our country, i would rather fight along side people like you than allow our country to be changed into something other than the great place it is, the proof of the intentions of this movement will eventually flesh out, until then 10' pole is as close as it gets, rhetoric is cheap, patriotism runs deep.
Much love my Patriotic brother! Keen eyes see through the rhetoric.
What is your job with the federal government? Also, please explain when and how you learned that Nazis and the KKK supported OWS. Why all the labels: socialist, communist, marxist, all bullshit. You are clearly incredibly ignorant.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/17/red-white-and-angry%E2%80%A8-communist-nazi-parties-endorse-occupy-protests/
http://www.varight.com/news/former-kkk-grand-dragon-david-duke-supports-occupy-wall-street/
Please refrain from the name calling, I rely on facts not ideas.
You post two links to far-right blogs as proof? That is fucking hilarious. Calling you ignorant is not name-calling, you are clearly very ignorant. And I'm still waiting to hear how you earn those tax dollars that pay your salary.
My job isn't really important. I suggest the OWS protesters get one. Facts are facts regardless of the writers political views.
Yeah those are some nice facts, some hick supposedly claimed to support OWS, what does that have to do with anything? It's a bullshit distraction that keeps you drooling on your keyboard you fool. Hey, I pay your salary, I have a right to know what you do to "earn" it. What, are you ashamed?
I pay my salary too because I pay taxes. I work in a Federal Prison and we'll leave it at that. My job requires some privacy because of my work environment. I am not ashamed at all to continue to serve my country as I have for the past ten years. Do you represent a majority of the protesters at OWS?
No one person represents the opinions of 99% of americans. The occupy movement is a space where all voices can be heard regardless of political ideology. We do not back any politician and we are decidedly non partisan as most of us are fed up with both sides of the isle. We are currently focusing on the issues of corporate greed as that is the reason why so many Americans have ended up in places they don't want to be. like our military being sent to fight wars that most in the military don't even agree with the premise of why we went in.
No, I represent myself. Did you vote for Bush twice?
I've never voted for any President because I have yet to see a real candidate that is deserving of the Office. I just thought that if everyone at these protests acts the same way you are to people with questions about it then it won't last long before it degrades to violence and lawlessness.
You don't vote. Nice. You came to this forum to accuse the OWS movement of being socialists, marxists, Nazis, Communists, and even former KKK members. You said you see A LOT of this, which is ludicrous. You bought into a right wing blog smear campaign. I attacked you for that pathetic ignorance, and you deserved it. Try coming to your own conclusions instead of being spoonfed bullshit. Gullible people like you are a big problem in this country.
Idealist punks without respect for their fellow Americans are a real blight on our country as well. I happen to vet my sources for reliability rather than just jump to fulfill a political agenda. I see a lot of reports regarding those subjects for clarification. I seek truth. I have old friends that are attending OWS events and are full of the same poison and hate that you are. Thanks for verifying my suspicions. I don't have anything further to discuss with you.
I still don't understand why it matters if some Nazi or some KKK asswipe said he supported OWS? Why does that matter? It's meaningless, it's a smear campaign. As for respect, you have to earn that, why should I respect you based on your ignorant post? OWS is being slammed with these false accusations, it is an attempt to undermine and destroy the movement and you buy right into it, and that makes me mad.
Against my better judgement I will leave you with this advice, you will get more flies with sugar than salt. If you disagree with the news reports that is fine and I won't argue with you as it is your opinion. I am willing to accept yours if you are willing to accept mine. If you truly want a better country and wish to bring Americans together, ie: the 99%, then try to realize you are not at odds with but 1% of Americans. Unless I just won the lotto, I should be your brother, not your enemy. Good luck.
Some of us OWS against corporate crimes and government lobbying
I agree Pope. Too many messages. OWS needs a single, consolidated message for Washington.
Within the past decade, both republicans and democrats have removed critical laws that created the financial mess we are in. An example is the Glass-Steagall act, which had kept investment banks and commercial banks separate. The government made a big mistake by removing Glass-Steagall, and the Frank-Dodd financial bill that recently passed did not address this critical issue. Why aren't we focused on that? Why Corporations? Focusing on corporations is a waste of time. It will not correct the problem.
The corporations are bleeding this country dry, fool.
I am familiar with both acts of legislation and you are very correct. I suggest OWS sends this message that will ring clear in the minds of every politician: "Cut back to the Constitution or vacate your seat for someone who will". That is the only clear solution. We don't need new legislation, we need to repeal all the unconstitutional legislation and executive orders that allow these fat cats to lay in bed with the lobbyists.
I agree with getting back to the constitution, I would be careful though citing things like nazis supporting OWS. These are the same sensationalist news stories that misrepresent every big protest. Nazis and white supremacist groups also supported the tea party movement, a lot of these fringe extremists latch onto any movement for the attention it brings them. The Tea party didn't recognize them and neither does the occupy movement.
I agree, but I wanted to find out if there is legitimacy to it. I personally believe our POTUS to be very socialist in nature regarding all his policies thus far and his negation of the Constitution in favor of the UN. He is very adept at class warfare and will reinvent this to his favor if he can.
So you seem to agree with most of the sentiment here at occupy wall street. None of us are trying to make excuses for our terrible politicians to date, so there is no need to try and get into polarizing arguments. that is what we are trying to get away from. Ithink you will find we are just as dissatisfied as you. I am not a crazy liberal by any means. I am fairly moderate as are most Americans. We are more interested in what we do agree on rather than going over the same old ground. We are all proud to be american and we are proud to live in a country that has a constitution that recognizes our freedom of speech. All opinions will be listened to as long as they are not trying to bait someone into an argument. We are here to start the discussiona nd find solutions that are best for the people not for corporations or any other non-livng sector.
Class warfare needs to end. The whole paradigm of red vs blue is false. George Washington said that he and the rest of the framers of the Constitution never thought America would divide into two political parties when writing it. A discussion is great and maybe a start but is a far cry from a plan of action or even an answer when the corporations already have a plan that is in full force sinking us to the bottom. The answer is simple, it's the Constitution. If our laws don't abide by it they need to be repealed and there are hundreds of them that don't. The FED being the biggest eyesore.
I think we are in total agreement about the FED in fact one of the more popular signs you see at the protest is the simple direct "END THE FED" slogan. As for class warfare that seems to be the buzzword on the more right leaning news sites. Wanting corporations to not be considered people is not class warfare. We firmly agree that if you earned it fairly and legally it is yours to keep. The issue (which is wrongly being called class warfare) is when you get multi billion dollar hedge funds playing games and gambling with average americans pensions and mortgages making millions in illegal trading and then the tax payers get stuck with no houses or pensions while the people who caused the problem with shady wallstreet practices go home with all your hard earned money . I don't htink it is class war fare I think it is holding crooks accountable for screwing over 99% of americans.
I think you misunderstand the meaning of class warfare. To me it simply means that the mainstream media uses their massive influence on sheeple to direct them against other sheeple of different social, religious, and economic classes. If you look at every great nation and every failed democracy you will see two things: A rise to power based upon the overwhelming majority of shared core values and then when failed a fractured system that has sectors all unrelenting in their positions until the whole system fails. We are at that point now. China is about to buy the EU out of its debt and if it does will be the biggest debt holder on the planet. Not good news for Capitalist societies like ours.
Yes I understand what Class warfare means, I am saying I don't agree with the call by certain media outlets to call what we are doing class warfare as they continue to do despite our actions not fitting the definition you provided. we simply want some of these multi-billionaires to pay their fair share. Even warren buffet doesn't think its class warfare and he is the richest man in the world currently, he says he would like to pay his fair share of taxes but currently his maid pays more taxes than he does. Those were his words.
Warren Buffet is a chump and just likes to gloat on the media so people like him. What does he care, he's the richest man in the world? The media is trying to position the Tea Party as the radical right and OWS as the liberal left, I agree. As Americans it's our job to not play into such shallow tactics and rise above the bs. Isn't enough to just be American?
I just blew my load reading your reply. That's what the message needs to be!
I'm glad I can help.