Forum Post: OWS IS winning!
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 5, 2011, 10:37 a.m. EST by CriticalThinker
(140)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
First, from a 99'r that can't be there, adulations and greetings to all those that suffer cold, hunger, and ridicule. We are winning!
Frank Luntz, the top GOP strategist said: I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."
Take heed though. They're changing their rhetoric. They will say 'they get it' or 'you should protest Washington'. Don't fall for it. They're just saying these things to protect the 1%.
Keep doing what your doing. Don't forget our Patriot, David, occupywashDC.
We are waking up to the knowledge that the very LAST thing Capitalists want is an informed, thinking public. Once that happens, marketing, branding, peer pressure techniques no longer work and we might just realize that we don't need their idiotic consumer goods. What would become of them? Oh my!
I get a kick out of these business types who talk about "letting the market decide" when, all the time, they are using psycholigical techniques to manipulate a gullible public into thinking they need this latest gadget or they'll be the outcast unclean of their peer group.
I agree with aahpay -- we need to scare the hell out of the capitalists and all of their allies.
I'm all for less laws (after all this is supposed to be a free country). I'm not sure why we've practically legislated away what should be personal life choices. That being said one thing I staunchly believe is that it should be illegal to employ a psychological professional for marketing purposes (especially in the case of pharmaceuticals and other life altering products).
I agree, but it goes farther than that; since the 1950s there has been a steady and increasingly potent move on the part of markters to aim their efforts toward children. A great example of this was the old Mickey Mouse Club that I grew up with and belonged to. This wasn't an attempt on the part of Disney to provide entertainment and amusement for children -- this was a cyncial program aimed solely at selling Disney merchandise.
Look at cartoons children watch today -- they are nothing but product adverstisements. Movies are made with the idea in mind of selling action figures and other products.
My point is that we are completely in the grip of a Hitlerian propaganda philosophy. Hitler was not the first to see, but was, along with Goebbels, the first to perfect the idea of indoctrinating children while very young, therefore shaping their minds along the lines he wanted them to take. We ahve very consciously incorporated those same idea into our marketing strategies in this country and it is one of the things that stands in teh way of combatting pverty, injustice and a slew of other problems we face.
I agree deGrene. Both our government and it's kindred corporations are experts at propaganda. That propaganda certainly starts from the time our children are born. They have effectively intertwined the propaganda with entertainment media to keep people's focus away from the problems you mentioned and in the stores shopping (and running up debt to the banks in the process). We have to rise above the constant bombardment and realize what is best for us and our families.
Those who believe like Ayn Rand that a free market can decide the most beneficial products and services are basing their beliefs on the assumption of a rational and educated consumer. But, deGrene is correct in that advertising is used to reduce the consumer’s rational behavior and bias his education. (The herd instinct of a social animal also counters rational behavior.) This does not mean that the theory of a free market is wrong, only that the assumption is unfounded, and thus the theory is impractical. Education is a great way to improve independent behavior, maybe the only way, save to increase the number of Aspergers personalities in the culture.
This is the single most ignorant post I've read on this site. The market decides by advertising influence on the public. That IS a big part of the market.
Sounds like they did quite a job on you.
Yeah. That must be it....
And this is why we have fhasion designers telling us what we should buy and what is going to be the "in" look, for example.
When was the last time you were consulted in any way about what products you want or need? We are told what we're going to get and we are manipulated -- with profit as the motive -- as to what we will buy.
If you think that is ignorant, consdier this: if what you say is true, there would be no purpose or reason for marketing departments -- which exist separately but cooperatively with adversitsing departments. The purpose of the maaketeing department (and you can ask any marketer) is to create the amrket for a product, not to find it, but to create it.
Where does the consumer market come into that strategy?
Absolutely!
Anything that scares Frank Luntz is good for America.
OWS first great political success came years before OWS first marched on Wall Street. The OWS movement of today was, in 2008, the young idealists who successfully organized to put Barack Obama in the White House. It was Obama's betrayal of these Americans that, in part, incited them today to march on Wall Street as the real masters and powers behind Obama.
Most importantly, It was the idealists of 2008 that gave Barack Obama his vital 'winning margin'. Without them Obama would have had a slim victory, at best.
The betrayal by Obama, I believe, is what motivates some in the OWS to insist on an anti political stance for OWS. Understandable. But not a universal position.
In the few short months since inception OWS has motivated a major change in the national political lexicon from Wall Street's obsession with reducing debt no matter how much it hurts the middle-class and poor to a new debate about employment, economic justice and political corruption by Wall Street money.
In Ohio OWS supporters helped to successfully overturn, at the polls, the anti union legislation shoved through by the right-wing governor.
In Wisconsin OWS supporters are contributing time and effort to a recall petition drive against the right-wing tea party/Koch brothers governor Scott Walker.
This week in D.C. unemployed Americans are occupying congressional offices in sit-ins to fight for job fairness.
California and Nevada Attorney Generals, faced with OWS abandoned home occupations initiated investigations of foreclosure fraud by banks in both states.
Congress, confronted by a tea partyer Andrew Brietbart's investigation of insider trading in Congress compounded by the ongoing OWS protests against this kind of political corruption quickly took up and is debating in committee legislation to stop insider trading.
Obama this week tried co-opting the OWS signature issue of economic fairness by delivering a speech on "economic fairness" in Kansas. for the first time he acknowledge that there are poor Americans. Not saying so in those words but mentioning that there are Americans "who are fighting to get into the middle class..". In the past Obama has always talked only about the middle-class and rich turning a blind eye to the poverty oppressed of America.
And there are other successes.
OWS has the politicians on the run. And running scared. A concerted effort by OWS to directly effect political campaigns in the election year will force even more politicians to take up the core issues and values of OWS.
This is why we need to be focusing on the work being done to develop articulate positions for OWS such as:
• Constitutional Amendment defining the Status of Created Entities http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
• Constitutional Amendment Creating Public's Right to Know http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
• Constitutional Amendment Creating a National Holiday To Vote http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act
Understand these issues and confront politicians, both candidates and incumbents, with these issues.
OWS has successfully activated against Wall Street. Now OWS can make real change by activating nationally against the politicians who are owned by Wall Street.
@ aahpat ... Thank you for a superb effort in your post! It will take some time to digest.
(;^>)
This is what they fear, they know this will translate directly to political power. It's coming and they know it. The Tea Baggers are in their death throes. It's why they come here to disrupt but can't. We are strong and we will prevail. They are in collapse along with the repelicans!!!
Are you honestly possessing such a low IQ that you think the fucking TEA PARTY is your enemy? Are u really that stupid?
Oh, so, the tea party can do no harm. Bullshit, we go after them just like we go after you who supports them.
You could try make your point without calling him stupid you know.
And i think you are right that they are not the enemy. Though i am sure that many tea party members see that differently. That's the sad part really. In the end we all have the same needs yet we stay divided because of our believes how those needs should be met.
I can't speak for Puzzlin.
What I can say is the dialogue here has been (in my opinion) mutual hostility between the two groups. That hostility has been fostered, in part, by SOME Tea Party folks TOWARD OWS.
That is an observation.
Now, what I CAN say is there are SOME similarities between the two groups. Methodologies of reaching those goals will probably differ. BUT, OWS and the Tea Party BOTH want money out of politics. That is common ground.
I have NOT thrown any jabs your way.
An awful lot of ridicule has been heaped upon OWS by our lamestream media and others, Tea Party included. So, consequently, there is going to be some backlash. I am a business owner and I fully support OWS's efforts because I AM the 99%. My IT career has been offshored and I have too many years attached to my birth date.
OWS is in control of where we go with this movement from here on. Perhaps it would benefit both sides if the Tea Party would stop the ridicule and find common ground with OWS.
Why dot you marxists insist that anyone disagreeing with you must support the tea party? I have never had anything to do with them nor will I.
MVSN-----For your holiday pleasure:
99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99
Parody video: You’re a mean one, Newt Gingrich:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/07/parody-video-youre-a-mean-one-newt-gingrich/
WE ARE THE 99% WE ARE THE 99% WE ARE THE 99% WE ARE THE 99%
Go to thread for an in depth analysis of the Newt : )
http://occupywallst.org/forum/newt-gingrich-will-single-handedly-destroy-the-tea/
@ MVSN ... if I implied you support the tea party, my apologies. I don't consider myself a marxist. I want money out of politics and the soldiers out of wars that have no basis other than greed. There is no one movement or person that I have felt in total harmony with, including OWS. There is commonality between the two and there is disagreement between the two. To exclude one because they don't agree with everything is short sighted. Also, if one does not agree with everything in a movement, that is no reason to exclude them. I don't believe OWS, at its core, excludes based on disagreement of some issues.
The Luntzites are on this site posting already. Don't be fooled by him saying he is afraid of OWS. That man who eats far too much will find a way to sloganize into the conservative's favor.
I have been wondering lately just what conservatives are conserving. It seems to me that they look backward while the progressives are trying to look forward. The truth of it all is that we are on a bus, at full throttle, heading for a cliff edge and each side is hoping that someone will build a bridge in time before we go over that edge.
I don't hold faith in either side any longer. That old saying goes divide and conquer and so we have a far right and a far left. We are divided but who is the conquerer? That is the question both sides of the spectrum should be asking.
I think your observation is very, very accurate. I have said for years now that we no longer have a government that is interested in serving the people; rather it is interested in serving the interests of The Party.
We see already that the Unitied States's influence is waning in the world. I think that is what the conservatives hope to conserve -- America's dominance on the world stage and the dominance of wealth over service. But, as with all empires, the Captialist Empire will one day come to an end -- probably in much the same way as we see now -- if not this time, then another. (I see not an "American Empire" so much as I see an American-Style Capitalist Economic Empire.)
I think that we will, indeed, drive off that cliff. The question then is, what will we do? Will we fly or fall? Certainly, no matter what -- and no matter if we are right in our assessment -- the Western Capitalist world must change substantially to extricate itself from the current situation. Just how it changes remains to be seen.
Actually, the U.S. CONgress has declared War on the American People. By shredding the Constitution and Bill of Rights, these pitiful excuses for representatives of the people have forfeited any respect one might have had for them. The worst offenders are Senators Lindsay Graham and John McCain who sponsored the evil bill declaring the U.S. homeland as a "Battleground". This power grab, if approved by POTUS, will - in their opinion - make any American subject to arrest, torture, unlimited detention and execution without any evidence, right to due process, habeas corpus, or trial by jury. The Communist nation of North Korea is the only other nation with a similar law. Our Founding Fathers are whirling in their graves because of this outrage.
SB 1867 is disgusting!
I AM the 99%.
Mic Check!
Reinstate Glass Steagall
Veto SB 1867.
What needs to happen now is to not only keep up the pressure, but increase it. Make it known to Washington and state capitols that the tents are gone, but the movement is NOT.
I insist we need to get into teh streets and halls of power like they did in the 60s, and never let up until we win. It's beginning to happen -- we just need to keep it up and make it stronger.
I'm a staunch supporter of OWS. Because of job responsibilities and health issues I have only been able to be a part time occupier, but I was there on day one. That said, OWS is a very, very, very long way from winning. At least years, probably decades, perhaps several lifetimes. Once we have 10 to 20 million people occupying somewhere at least part time then we can begin to talk about winning. Until then we have a lot of work to do organizing. Solidarity forever
I agree with you all the way, RedJazz. My fear all along is that people might expect a quick victory. But if you look at the successful protest/activist movement in this country -- Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights, Anti-Vietnam, even the Prohibition Movement -- they all took very long times to become successful. I look for some to get tired or bored and leave the movement, but that will leave a stronger and more dedicated core that can build the organization and focus the actions we take. But to think that OWS will suddenly frighten people into kowtowing to our demands is 1) unrealistic and 2) exactly what the Tea Party has done with the Republican Party. I choose not to be that sort of activist.
In my mind I look to the elections of 2020 before we will be well on the path to victory. It will be a slow long painful process but its now or never.
Victory will require unending effort.
I think you're pretty correct in that. But, after all, what, really, is our recourse? to become slaves and thank our mnasters for the crumbs they throw us?
Not for me, thanks. I'll work as long as it takes to see the prhase "all [people} are created equal" come to reality.
We have been fighting for twenty years already. Nobody paid attention. This bell has been ringing and no one is hearing it. Now we have some. We are now doing what thought impossible. It's not an accident and it's been coming and now it's really COMING!!!!!
Let's GO
.......................................We're Winning
Excellent point.
We are here for the long haul, and it will be long. The attempt to get us to issue demands now is an obvious attempt to divide us before we come together as a whole.
I have made the point before. It was young Russian soldiers who were part of the decade long occupation of France that brought new ideas to Russia. The result of the Decemberist uprising of 1826!!!. The revolution would not happen for another 93 years.
We must focus on the long term solutions to these problems. The first part of the struggle is to educate people to think of themselves in a different light regarding their political, social and cultural place in the world.
Expect US
We will keep coming!
Hit it out of the park by occupying here. This company has a rap sheet a mile long.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
For your holiday pleasure:
99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99 99
Parody video: You’re a mean one, Newt Gingrich:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/07/parody-video-youre-a-mean-one-newt-gingrich/
WE ARE THE 99% WE ARE THE 99% WE ARE THE 99% WE ARE THE 99%
Go to thread for an in depth analysis of the Newt : )
http://occupywallst.org/forum/newt-gingrich-will-single-handedly-destroy-the-tea/
Hi CriticalThinker, Good post. Best Regards, Nevada
Interesting regarding the talk about advertising. Understand that the news is a form of advertising, too. Mainstream opinion is bought and sold. What you hold as a belief is probably not even yours, but something crafted for you in the labs of think tanks and media analyzers. They lock you in to a certain view and want you coming back for me. Corporations make huge profits just because of the way they have got the public thinking. Corporations are now making profits off of demonizing OWS. That's entertainment, folks.
Obama mentioned us in his latest speech. We are winning big.
OWS will lose if you don't vote on this bill which will help the government classify all protesters as terrorists, and take you into custody without fair trial:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-protesters-national-defense-authorization-a/
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/vk2k.shtml
worth the long read
I haven't heard anything on any forum but this one on OWS in over a week. What are you winning and where can you go besides the youtube OWS shot cameras to get this winning info?
It's all detailed in a post somewhere here. It is so in-depth and so detailed I have not had the time to read it. But, it's here.
heck yes ows is winning.
So Frank Luntz says this and it's automatically true? Says who?
right here
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/165173/gop-strategist-frank-luntz-republicans-must-rebrand-capitalism-and-middle-class/
Frank Luntz created the phrase, "climate change" for Bush and you people tagged along.
He created the phrase "government takeover" in reference to healthcare, and you shouted out your windows.
Now, all of a sudden, you're skeptical about Frank Luntz's influence??
Not buying it.
Where did I say that I followed anything Luntz ( or for that matter Bush) ever said or did? And who is "you "people"?
"you people" that post trash like this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/you-do-not-want-to-miss-this-article-possibly-the-/#comment-454942
and this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-troll/
and this:
http://occupywallst.org/users/MVSN/
that sound exactly like this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
and repeat exact phrases from this:
http://www.foxnews.com/
But now, out of nowhere, Frank Luntz and George Bush are nobodies to you. You're just a non-thinking coward that followed the whole "Patriotic" wave in 2003 and the Tea Party in 2009 and are too cowardly and pathetic to admit it that you're a filthy Neoconservative Trotskyist and probably now claim to be Libertarian leaning just like all the rest of the sheep do. I've seen it all before, you Trotskyist scum.
Wow. You really are retarded. And Trotsky? Mixed with neoconservative? Okay. I was wrong in an earlier post on another thread. THIS is the most ignorant fucking post I've ever read on this site. Go form your gulags(concentration camps) my sweet little Marxist. Your murderous kind will find a warm welcome waiting for you. Talk about goddamn brainwashed sheep.....
Neoconservatives are Trotskyists. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.
Why don't you freaking read for once in your pathetic meaningless life.
https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1ASUT_ENUS392&q=neoconservative+trotsky&oq=neoconservative+trotsky&aq=f&aqi=g2g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=45l2795l0l3128l17l13l0l4l4l0l213l1267l1.6.1l8l0
Talk about brainwashed sheep. You haven't the foggiest idea where YOU'RE OWN GOD DAMN BELIEFS come from.
Now go eat a bottle of aspirin you disgusting communist scum while us real americans occupy.
Real Americans? REAL AMERICANS? Oh Jesus tap dancing christ I'm going to puke you are so damn funny!!!
So funny that you're too cowardly to click on the link and read.
https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1ASUT_ENUS392&q=neoconservative+trotsky&oq=neoconservative+trotsky&aq=f&aqi=g2g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=45l2795l0l3128l17l13l0l4l4l0l213l1267l1.6.1l8l0
Go ahead. Learn something you anti-american coward.
Yeah. Okay!!!!
Who says Frank Luntz is the "top GOP strategist"?
I'll repeat myself..
Frank Luntz created the phrase, "climate change" for Bush and you people tagged along.
He created the phrase "government takeover" in reference to healthcare, and you shouted it out your windows.
Now, all of a sudden, you're skeptical about Frank Luntz's influence??
Not buying it.
The biggest threat to OWS, from the inside, is the psuedo-science of libertarian free market think tanks. These lies are being promoted by the "END THE FED" extremists.
These right-wing zealots have connections to violence and racism.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-the-fed-movement-has-ties-to-domestic-terroris/
And OWS has "ties" to the Communist movement. Does that mean OWS is communist? Ignorant.
Exactly what specifically is being "won"?
This is what they fear, they know this will translate directly to political power. It's coming and they know it. The Tea Baggers are in their death throes. It's why they come here to disrupt but can't. We are strong and we will prevail. They are in collapse along with the repelicans!!!
The war for the minds of the 99%.
All OWS members deserve a trophy for participation!!!
LOL!!
You ripped off Adam Carolla, verbatim.. It's funny because it proves you're completely incapable of original thought. That's awesome.