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Forum Post: OUR TURN: A Message to All Americans

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 10, 2012, 11:08 p.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

  • OUR TURN **** (one person's view on where we Americans go from here)

We love America and because of that love, we also feel a deep need for fundamental change. Citizenship isn't a spectator sport. If we want to enjoy prosperity and freedom and have a strong country, we're going to have to take action.

Below this introduction is a link to some suggestions on what we can do to get our country back on track. These are not vague or empty goals. They are specific. They will have a deadline. And there will be active non-violent resistance by thousands of people if the goals are not achieved by the deadline.

But before we start setting goals and pushing for change, it's important to get some perspective.

It's easy to forget that this is a very young nation. It's also easy to forget that this nation is a great and fragile experiment whose success is by no means assured. We should feel grateful to have the privilege of being a part of this experiment, but we should also feel a corresponding sense of responsibility for helping to ensure its success. Many before us put themselves at great risk to establish, strengthen and preserve the United States of America and it is becoming clear that it is now our turn.

We all feel it. In recent decades, this great experiment we've inherited has gone awry. We're all searching for the source of this decline because, once we correctly identify the source, we can work on implementing targeted solutions. There are countless important improvements to make. Putting them all into one action list would be impossible and ill-advised.

One school of thought would be to identify a group of important reforms, push hard for them with all our might using proven tactics, and then move onto another group of important reforms. Once we get a taste of winning, our spirits will rise exponentially and so will the number of people supporting the efforts.

It is in the spirit of "taking many bites at the apple" that we submit the initial list of demands for reform below. They would, of course, need to be followed by additional demands for reform, one after the other, relentlessly, like waves rolling in from the sea. This initial list focuses on demanding that Congress use its powers to prevent further abuses by Wall Street and large corporations. These abuses have cost millions of Americans their jobs, their savings, their homes and their pride. Untold damage has been done to communities across the country. It's impossible to have a great nation where only the few are benefitting and the great many are hurting. So let's roll up our sleeves, get to work and take our first bite at the apple.

As we encounter inevitable and strong resistance, we should remember the words of one successful steward of change, Mahatma Gandhi, who once said this: "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win."

It is also important that we be very active in pushing for change but that our activity remain completely non-violent. Non-violence is powerful. Gandhi and his supporters pushed the British out of India without weapons. Martin Luther King, Jr. and his supporters won sweeping civil rights for millions of people using non-violent tactics. King explained the use of active non-violent resistance as follows in his "Letter from Birmingham Jail":

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. . . The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation."

These methods have worked throughout the last hundred years in countless ways. And now it is our turn to use them. Our love of our country and sense of justice will fuel us. Our adherence to the core principle of active non-violent resistance will guide us. And our successes will lift us. Stay strong and get ready for action.

PLEASE SEE THIS LINK for one person's suggestion about what we should do summer 2013 or summer 2014 to continue the process of restoring the rule of law and ousting the corporatists who have temporarily hijacked our great republic: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ Not the end all be all but a great start.

Here are a few more links to check out later if you like:

105 Comments

105 Comments


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[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We need to see a rebirth in the commitment to good ideals.

Like:

Health being a primary consideration in all that is done.

Is it Healthy we ask about a new industry or an old one. Yes? OK. Can it be better? Yes? Good. How do we do that? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 - OK

Is it Healthy we ask ................................No? Why not? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 - can it be made Healthy? No? Well then PERMISSION DENIED. YES? How? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - OK - meet those needs to be healthy and present a continuous process improvement plan to continue on from there - and then we will have another look at it.

Society ( High Tech - Low Tech - No Tech ) fails when it stops looking out for the health of society - The Health Of ALL In The Society.

Health in laws and enforcement

Health in education and training

Health in business practices/operations

Health in social activities

Health in communications

Health in the environment - ALL of The Environment - not just local.

Etc

And This Healthy Society Needs A Continuous Process Improvement Program.

Not options - requirements. Stop Kicking The FUCKING CAN DOWN THE ROAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

This requires the involvement of the PEOPLE - ALL OF THE PEOPLE.

[-] 5 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes. Yes. And especially yes on "Stop kicking the fucking can down the road." Our leaders need to STAND for something other than occupying a desk and podium. They need to take risks. But we the people have to back them up and reward them for taking those risks. We have to give them cover. It's not just them. It's us. I know a few leaders and damn it ain't easy when people expect so much but aren't there when the shit storm comes. We need to back them up :)

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

YEP - we the People need to Provide Proper Back-up to Those who actually are trying to represent us - as well as provide Proper Leadership/Guidance and keep our elected representatives feet firmly on the ground sanely aware of all issues need to address Health ( FOR ALL ).

For it is our government. Who's ? THE PEOPLE!!!! And The PEOPLE MUST PROVIDE PROPER GUIDANCE/DIRECTION.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right on. It seems like things are heating up again with Walmart and now this Michigan thing don't you think?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Absolutely. {:-])

Real signs of growth and change in a positive direction by the People/Public. A sign of the reawakening spirit.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I like the way you think :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Ditto

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm trying to imagine how this will all play out over the next few years. Several futures are conceivable. We could be looking back in two years laughing, crying or both.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - it would be nice at times to have a foresight - but we are very limited that way - and so I have always tried to get people to think about things as they are and then expand upon current practice going into the future and have them try to picture what that might look like.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's a good way of approaching it.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thx - it takes a receptive person - receptive to looking and imagining. Some do not like it because it makes them think past/outside-of their carefully maintained personal reality.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Those are delicate situations. I'm going to try your method next time.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is - can be - quite fun as you look at a process of one sort or another and the good and bad in that process and then imagine different outcomes to different approaches in changing/adjusting a process or just leaving it alone. It can get quite complex. But it does not have to be - it just happens some times as you work on projections.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Cheers to that!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Ha Haa . . . cleansing too.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I like your last recommendation. :-D

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yeah - green tea can be sooo energizing - Hey? {;-])

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Very cool.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Just between you and me ( shhh ) it can be an awful lot of fun and surprisingly productive having the session with some herbal refreshment. {:-]) Very beneficial to juicing-up creativity and relaxing barriers to free thinking/consideration/association.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

WOW It has gotten awfully quiet in here - here - here - here - here - here - Damn it's been a while since it has been so quiet - quiet - quiet - quiet - quiet ..........

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It is interesting isn't it :)

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I like energetic - it is weird when communication stops for long periods of time.

[-] 3 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

I support this post. Worthy and constitutional goal.

Because courts are logically regarded ideally as the "pinnacle of reason" for any society, I would phrase the first, "Health in courts for law and enforcement.'

Health is inextricably linked to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Health in all things.

[-] 2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Beings so, it is a constitutional mandate that can control an Article V convention.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

There does not need to be an article V convention - things issues Amendments can be forwarded singly - each standing on it's own merits - to be compartmentalized to each one being inspected as to proposed intent - value - interaction with the whole - consider possible consequences ramifications as it is considered for placement.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Congress won't alter the status quo.

DKAtoday wrote: things issues Amendments can be forwarded singly

We do not get to do this.

DKAtoday wrote: each one being inspected as to proposed intent - value

If we've gotten to where we are, those in charge are not going to amend anything in our favor. At best those using such strategy could hope for, is to perhaps slow the process imposed, somewhat.

If this is true,

things issues Amendments can be forwarded singly

show how this is done, using laws officials have a duty to follow or explain other tangible and overtly certain methods.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Look at the Move To Amend state by state campaign to remove corpoRAT personhood. Blue print for many actions to be taken/made by the People.

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Okay, is this what you refer to?

https://movetoamend.org/november-2012-ballot-measure-roundup

Here is my question again. Keep in mind, Shahid Buttar, director of movetoamend could not answer this when I met him in Santa Monica in 2011.

"show how this is done, using laws officials have a duty to follow or explain other tangible and overtly certain methods."

I see where citizens of cities and counties have approved petitions for various worthy things. This shows public sentiment well but does not show how that sentiment will manifest in legal action except by stating the intent to see an amendment effect various issues.

My point is that we would not be where we are if congress was inclined to approve any of these amendments. The status quo will be maintained by encumbants.

The strategy I propose with preparatory amendments is an acid test that WE, the people can rightfully apply to our state legislators. If they fail, we have reason for special elections in states.

The reason that congress did not call a convention in 1911 when 2/3 of the states had applied, to stop the federal reserve basically, is because the infiltration of the federal government needed time to infiltrate state governments more completely to prevent Article V at the state level.

What this means is that California state legislators, relating to the California results of the petitions you indicate, that I link to, will not work to see amendment in significant ways. Sure, they may make noises upwards to try and demonstrate their faithfulness to our purposes, but they won't take up the real effort of Amending through Article V.

Therein the infiltrated federal government will continue on their corporate rampage over rights and freedoms diminishing our futures hugely.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Ummm if you asked that question and received no answer - were you heard asking? By the way this singular campaign operates off of the established constitutional law as to process for calling for an amendment change and that change is called-out/identified in the campaign. There is a required level of support that is required Nationally for this amendment motion to go forward.

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

As far as I know petitions for amendment going to state legislations must turn into something that congressional representatives have a duty to respond to. That duty is constitutionally defined. So far they've ignored it. Such is why this criminal complaint was made against them. It is factual.

http://my.firedoglake.com/danielmarks/2012/02/18/congress-refuses-to-call-a-convention-to-amend/

I think we are well past the point where congress should respond positively to petitions of the sort movetoamend is pushing. If they had acted constitutionally, it would make the movetoamend campaign unnecessary, because they would already be doing their job.

DKAtoday wrote: "By the way this singular campaign operates off of the established constitutional law as to process for calling for an amendment change"

I asked the movetoamend director about the specific constitutional law/process, and he evaded. I was heard asking by the public. There was a fairly dramatic evasion made and no answer was provided.

Now, I met at the same meeting other movetoamend staff and they have no problem with Article V. George Friday works with them and is amongst those interviewed in this 10 minute video of peoples comments that attended Lessigs Harvard conference on Article V.

http://vimeo.com/31464745

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

This: http://my.firedoglake.com/danielmarks/2012/02/18/congress-refuses-to-call-a-convention-to-amend/ is an as of yet unresolved issue. Yes it very much needs to be addressed as it is a very large part why the people have got to protest to be heard and represented.

But now you poo poo the Move to Amend campaign which would move us in the right direction to recovering our government.

And instead - with people in office that would not act on Move to Amend - without extreme pressure.

You want to give them an article V convention - so that we all can watch from outside as people who are not gonna represent us make wholesale changes to the constitution?

You are funny beyond belief - instead of getting representation an issue at a time weeding out bad ( non ) representatives - you just want to throw them the whole ball of wax and let em run with it.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Infiltrators would misrepresent valid strategy. There is too much evasion of the main strategy and proposal I make.

Preparatory Amendment cannot be left out the effect of these three amendments,

1)End the abridging of free speech 2)Campaign finance reform 3)Secure the vote

Totally prevents anything like what you describe. No, I do not want that.

DKAtoday wrote: "You want to give them an article V convention - so that we all can watch from outside as people who are not gonna represent us make wholesale changes to the constitution?"

[-] 3 points by gsw (2737) 1 year ago

Just one comment...lets add a survey or petition so I can affirm support of this, maybe the one that goes to the white house

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22311) 1 year ago

All of your 8 practical goals are a fantastic place to start. Maybe you could add end the war mongering and something about workers' rights.

The thing for me, though, is that if we don't look to the root cause, which is how our society operates in the first place, our ethos, what is important to us, if those things don't change, then the 8 practical goals are almost just band-aids. We definitely need action to put all of those things into place because we must be practical for the short term, but we also need to look at how we got to this point in the first place so we can make changes for the long term.

If Americans are going to continue to lionize the wealthy and corporations and worship materialism and consumerism then what is making these changes really going to do? If we are still going to degrade the poor and poke fun at people who have been devastated by an economic system that cares not one bit for them where will this lead us?

I feel like if we don't change the root of our society from being fear-based to love-based in a very profound way to meet the needs of a changing world, we can put these changes in place, but we will soon revert back to where we were. We must learn to share and to love all human beings. There is plenty on this earth to go around.

Yes this nation is great, but so are other nations great. We are no better. In fact, we have much to prove. We use 26% of the world's resources and make up only 5% of the world's population. We wage wars at every turn. We need to fundamentally change the way we think going forward for the technological change and globalization that we face now is demanding that we work with the rest of the world and not against it.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

TRUTH

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22311) 1 year ago

Thanks, DKA. These are hard truths.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

As long as it is truth - let it hurt some feelings - let it piss some people off - if it can get those same people to stop a moment and consider the reality of the expressed truth - AWESOME. Some need to be shown the hard/harsh truths - others are aware. Some people will respond to positive motivation in a positive manner - others seem to need to be slapped in the face to wake-up pay attention then get involved - hopefully in a positive fashion.

TRUTH is TRUTH is TRUTH - If it is an ugly TRUTH all the more reason it needs to be faced - or the ugliness will grow freely.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22311) 1 year ago

Solidarity DKA!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Forward to a "beautifulworld". {:-])

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Damn straight. You nailed it. I think you are exactly right on all of the points you made here. And my honest intention was that the 8 items on my list would be pushed concurrently with the more important and more challenging effort described on your list. if it wasn't grand theft, I'd simply redo the post and call my 8 part "A" and your part "Concurrent Part B" :)

Would be even better if we could somehow synthesize what you and I wrote into something highly readable and clickable that feels like a whole and is not only prescriptive but also inspirational. I see so much energy out there, so many people know it's time for a change but not enough people are making an attempt to share a vision of what's possible short and long term and how we achieve it beginning right here right now on the ground.

To do it right, my part would actually be B, yours would be C and we'd need to add a part A because obviously we can't jump right into either yours or mine without a bit more activity, organization and support. Sometime when you and I both have time, we should take a crack at it. Inspire energy and hopefully make an attempt at showing how it might be channeled into productive action. I'm all about getting shit done!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22311) 1 year ago

Sounds good, and I agree that we do need a plan. I would say, though, that we should include input from many others here as well. I am inspired by everyone on this forum, a few people in particular, and even the trolls.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

PS - I'm not particularly stuck on any aspects of my 8 items or tactics (I always intended that "doc" to be just a starting point for discussion when I wrote it) so I'm pretty easy to work with. The only thing I am stuck on is making sure we adhere clearly and powerfully to nonviolence.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree. How about this for an idea: let's you and I put together a doc over the next couple of weeks and then put it out there as a post that says basically, this is just a rough draft of some things that might work both in terms of vision and practical steps.... And we very specifically say at the top --- this is essentially intended to be a group project -- we just wanted to provide a starting point. Go to town on it. And then everyone can chime in as much as they like and we can discuss for weeks and weeks.

And, bottom line, what we would also make clear is that even the finished doc isn't meant to be some end all be all.... It's just supposed to be a really great post put together by a group of people who care.... With the intended purpose being to inspire further action, work and study. It would be a stepping stone that many would feel ownership of.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22311) 1 year ago

It's a very good idea. Since it is new to me, let me think it over. I actually am going to be very busy, personally, in the next few weeks, so my time will not be what it has been. I think we do need to work together with everyone on the forum at this point and perhaps we should start with getting input from others. There are so many people here that have such important things to say. I truly believe that everyone contributes in their own way. What we need to do is piece it all together in some kind of logical way.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

"piece it together in some logical way" is a great way to think about it. I think there's some agreement on this forum..... The trick is to take the best of the best and coalesce into a provocative post (just a post) that's easily forward able to others if people are so inclined to forward. The idea being that it goes beyond this forum and brings in more people. The ultimate goal of course is to go beyond even that and hopefully have people catch a " fire" and get educated from all the smart people and links here and plan their own actions or participate in existing ones. If an effort gets people unified and gets them out in the street in their towns and cities, I'm all for it. I want it to feel open and I want it to go somewhere.

We have to keep in mind though that the end result of this particular small writing effort is just to make a really good post (assuming of course it's even possible to joint edit / write).

Maybe it's as simple as one person writes something. Passes it to next person for 3 - 7 days. That person can add delete and edit as they see fit. Then it goes to the next person and so on. Then it gets posted as username "combined effort". No one would reply from that by we could all as individuals join in the comment section and so could others.

Then round two would be after two weeks of comments. We'd pass around again each adding and editing using the best of the comments from others -- and perhaps pass it on to even more people.

By the end of round two it could be reposed as username combinedeffort2 and hopefully would be a pretty damn solid, inspirational and provocative post.

I think it's important that we represent it as a post and nothing more than a post. Because that's all it is. Best case scenario it's really good, provokes more people to get involved and take action.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We need a "map" of territory we've sort of established so we can stand on those semi-firm stepping stones and move beyond it.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree. Let me mull it over as well and see if I can't come up with some ideas on how it could work to gather the many talents and intellects on this forum.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

What about MEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I wanna help .... can I get you guys coffee or something?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Ha! I think we're already at a loss on how to crowdedit :) or crowdwrite :). Usually when I come up against something so challenging I try to sleep on it and see if something pops into my head as a solution. This one may take a few full nights of sleep :). Would be cool though. Will let you know if some method arises that allows us to properly get input from the great minds and hearts on this forum. Pass it down the line? Start with a draft and pass it down the line. Every interested individual gets it for a week and can change anything they want? And it just keeps going like that? Probably some problems with that. Need to sleep on it :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

A master document - copies sent to individuals - individuals do what they will with the copy - altered documents are returned to the master keeper for review and the process of rejecting or consolidating - which may well involve sending out queries as to what the other members think? Prior to inclusion and change. This document will now be a 1st revision and can be sent out again for review possible modifications and return in the same manner - until the document is deemed ready for release.

????

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Maybe the following is similar to what you just said:

"piece it together in some logical way" (as beautifulworld put it) is a great way to think about it. I think there's some agreement on this forum..... The trick is to take the best of the best and coalesce into a provocative post (just a post) that's easily forward able to others if people are so inclined to forward. The idea being that it goes beyond this forum and brings in more people. The ultimate goal of course is to go beyond even that and hopefully have people catch a " fire" and get educated from all the smart people and links here and plan their own actions or participate in existing ones. If an effort gets people unified and gets them out in the street in their towns and cities, I'm all for it. I want it to feel open and I want it to go somewhere.

We have to keep in mind though that the end result of this particular small writing effort is just to make a really good post (assuming of course it's even possible to joint edit / write).

Maybe it's as simple as one person writes something. Passes it to next person for 3 - 7 days. That person can add delete and edit as they see fit. Then it goes to the next person and so on. Then it gets posted as username "combined effort". No one would reply from that by we could all as individuals join in the comment section and so could others.

Then round two would be after two weeks of comments. We'd pass around again each adding and editing using the best of the comments from others -- and perhaps pass it on to even more people.

By the end of round two it could be reposed as username combinedeffort2 and hopefully would be a pretty damn solid, inspirational and provocative post. I think it's important that we represent it as a post and nothing more than a post. Because that's all it is. Best case scenario it's really good, provokes more people to get involved and take action.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Is this an editing assignment?

As If so I will copy it over to my status/character page then copy it out to my word processor program software and create a page. All editing all new material to be worked on with no formatting as that can be the final pretty-up - formatting has a tendency not to travel translate well from place to place - so a basic left margin text orientation with the use of 2 hard returns ( return button twice ) used to separate paragraphs and to make single sentences/comments stand out for particular attention.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Honestly hadn't thought that far ahead yet. Still trying to think about what the starter doc could look like.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Basic:

Title of post ( same as shows up on the main page list now )

Body of post ( same as when you click on a heading/title now )

No formatting what so ever other than paragraphs = two returns to establish the paragraph break. Any style can be done when the article/post is created - paste the raw into the post - then touch it up.

Notes could be made on the document as to possible flourishes to be added.

Example:

Example: [ < BOLD ]

Example:

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We need to think of a way to "map" the territory we've sort of established so we can stand on those semi-firm stepping stones and move beyond it. I think there's some agreement on this forum..... The trick is to take the best of the best and coalesce into a post (just a post) that's easily forward able to others if people are so inclined to forward. The idea being that it goes beyond this forum and brings in more people. The ultimate goal of course is to go beyond even that and hopefully have people catch a " fire" and get educated from all the smart people and links here and plan their own actions or participate in existing ones. If an effort gets people unified and gets them out in the street in their towns and cities, I'm all for it. I want it to feel open and I want it to go somewhere.

We have to keep in mind though that the end result of this particular small writing effort is just to make a really good post (assuming of course it's even possible to joint edit / write).

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - we want material to send out into the world contacts to charity groups research groups social groups environmental groups health groups contact material that can forward ideas of combined resources in common cause issues - the whole being stronger then the parts - SYNERGY.

They can be specific contact aimed and/or general release that can go out on social media or into e-mails for the individuals/general population to read and share.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right - the key though is that all we'd be producing is a post. If it's of merit, people (including us) would forward. But it would just be a forum post. The way it would spread is by it being THAT GOOD. We obviously wouldn't in any way shape or form claim to be representing OWS. It could just be a really really good forum post that maps out the territory so we on this forum sort of have a stepping stone. Continual improvement. I imagine it would remain a living doc.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

In that form - yes it would - in that comments would be added to it - but the original post would be complete - no more editing. As far as forwarding it then - it would be as easy as using the social media buttons on the left or copy the Title "Link" and paste it into the body of any other contact e-mail you want to send out on. Like to an environmental group - find their e-mail/internet contact address and paste the Post link into the contact message area with an additional short explanation of what you sent and why.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Sounds perfect. I think it would need to make the editing round twice: once before its posted and once again after it's posted and there are 2 or 3 weeks of comments to draw from.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure the 2nd edit could be a new post. Clean comment section.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yup. Exactly. First post under name of something like combinedeffort1 and second post combinedeffort2.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Or Update - same title just add an update - 1st release could have the release date in the title and update could also include that release date in the same way.

Example:

Small Time stockholder riot as Wallstreet fucks them over - AGAIN. 12/13/2012

Small Time stockholder riot as Wallstreet fucks them over - AGAIN. UPDATE : 12/22/2012

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Positive conversation for it's own sake as it has its own rewards in the support and growth of Good Spirit/Fellowship.

Being positive can be so attractive and welcoming to all.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The trolls do demonstrate the sickness that we face - interactively. Other then that? I could ( myself ) do without the negativity.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It's time for the people to rise.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5907) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Good morning rising, first let me say that as we all acknowledge, none set the agenda of OWS. As you have opened up the floor so to speak, I will throw in my two cents.

I think that if we find ways to force each policy maker, yes I’m talking about them, to answer the question, “How does this reduce the wealth disparity?” for each policy change they propose we would make some headway. When speaking of “tax reform” or any other code word for cutting taxes on the super wealthy.

When speaking about election law they must answer. “How does this reduce the power of money?” (ie “special interest” we must do a better job of explaining to people what “special interest” means, it means money)

Now how do you get politicians to answer questions they don’t want to, you threaten their jobs, the GOP you go straight at because you know the worst D is better than the best R and the Democrats you “primary”. Now that’s how you get stuff done the TEA Party gets stuff done, it’s bad stuff but it is how it’s done.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It needs to be done. And I really like your method -- making it plain. Political leaders know exactly the game that's being run here with austerity --- where big corporations are paying little or no taxes (far less than their fair share) while important basic programs are being putting on the chopping block.

I think your question: "How will this reduce inequality?" is exactly the right question to ask them and we must insist on an answer.

If a seasoned political expert and top shelf marketing person were discussing this privately, I imagine they'd agree that we need to take very strategic steps using direct action to make income inequality not just "AN issue" but "THE top issue.". Then they'll in more of a position where they HAVE to answer the question because it becomes THE question.

I really like your idea. I'd encourage you to do a post on that to get the word out. Could really make a difference.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (5907) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I have been busting apart their talking points for thirty years face to face with the smartest cons in the country, (the nation's nuclear power operators), it is not by accident I know their weak points. It is still very hard to bring up wealth inequality as a problem on the TV, but remember in spite of that 54% in VA exit polls thought it was a major problem, this thing is like a balloon waiting for a pin.

Let me explain a little about my past, you see I was forced to come up with answers for the right wing talking points in order to survive the debates I found myself in on a daily basis, in this effort i found the left to be useless, I have often thought it was because they were afraid of winning, the 15% tax rate of 2001 tells that tale, that was exactly it, I no longer believe anyone in power represents the interest of the 99%, even though I believe that, it doesn't keep me from seeing the threat the GOP represents.

I don't mean to never say never, there is Bernie...

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree on all those points. Sounds like you have great skills from your experience. Necessity is the mother of invention :). What you said here is so spot on "It is still very hard to bring up wealth inequality as a problem on the TV, but remember in spite of that 54% in VA exit polls thought it was a major problem, this thing is like a balloon waiting for a pin."

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5907) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

morning rising, guess what? (a little bragging now) I got on the TV last night two channels one even let me say that our county atty. is placing his persona' choices above that of the people and how it doesn't seem like democracy, I was the only one there so they talked to me, those cameras weren't tanks but still scary as hell...

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That is very cool! Rock and roll. It really makes you freeze when those cameras are rolling. Well done.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well done man. Well done. I think you nailed it. Excellent. You're a natural. Wow, us citizens need to show up at these things (hearings etc) where topics demonstrating your larger point about democracyare at issue. If we who hold democratic ideals dear all casually made ourselves available to the press at events like this, the good word would be all over the airwaves via tv news stories on countless topics.

That county attorney is funny in his argument because I'm guessing his supporters for the most part were the same people pushing for tough Arizona immigration law --- and of course the funny part is that they of course used the opposite argument, that federal law CAN'T supersede state law / will of the state's citizens. Did that ever come up by the way? Might be fun for someone else who thinks like you to write to the local paper in an "open letter to county atty" and say exactly that. ;). Got any friends who would do that? :)

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 1 year ago

Right On!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (5907) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

thanks gypsy,

Hey I am reading just not commenting on your site, from time to time, I sort of need the action I find here, I have read about how people become adjusted to stress, I was in a stressful job for a long time so it helps, odd now watching the emotions there was a time when I thought that was me.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 1 year ago

Interesting. I used to thrive on that kind of stress. It's addictive. Now I find that I start to lose perspective pretty quickly when I am here, and need to go back to my new book, or the blog. I don't know, maybe it's just aging.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (5907) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

oh I don't know, the thing I've been working on lately is that's it's OK to be human, so often we work hard to accept the world without accepting ourselves ;), all I'm saying is it's all good...

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I have been hammering this for 14 months but let me address it from your "direction"


"My" issue & NYC OWS WG
http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com
is designed to educate about a constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood & citizens united -
basically with the goal of removing capitalist money from government.


HERE IS YOUR ANSWER:

  1. ask anyone what their primary complaint against America is
  2. be prepared to explain EXACTLY how THEIR problem could be solved by people like him if the "other side" could n ot spend millions fighting from the other side to buy our government.
  3. explain that the way to get an amendment passed, is to elect pro-amendment people
  4. send them to our site
[-] 4 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What kind of timeline do you think we're looking at if action steps are followed through on to eliminate corporate personhood / overturn citizens united?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

This is a very good question -
with a dozen bills IN CONGRESS already proposing an amendment, plus huge support at all levels including 380+ government and local resolutions & 1,309 mayors, and 80% popular support - the ball is rolling.
BUT
the key here ( as it has been for almost four years ) is the obstructionist Rs in congress.
we need to elect a lot more pro-amendment ( read "D" ) representatives in the House in Washington and in the state senates & assemblies to get this done
If a major effort was made to overcome this roadblock, my best guess would be 6-12 months after the next election.


Yes - I know that is a very unpleasant wait - but there is so little we can do without dumping the obstructionists. And it is the gateway to virtually everything we want.


And I'm sorry to be negative, but investing OWS time and efforts on impossibles such as ending capitalism, creating direct democracy, ending the fed does EXACLY what alec & the kochs want -
deflecting our energy into a brick wall.


and again - I know it is embarrassing to applaud the tp,
but they got what they wanted -
they used political power to almost completely block progressive moves in America.
For example, if we elected 30 more Bernies or Sherrods to the House in stead of the tp lemmons, we would have medicare for all today.


of all of the OWS demonstrations that I have attended with signs and chants and actions, I never saw a sign - "vote against corporate personhood"


OWS brilliantly woke up America to the 1%-99% ISSUE
but now it is time to admit & understand why we have stalled
our shrinking membership, our lost GAs, our obsession with leaderlessness & apolitical religion - must change

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I hope people will focus on what really will make a practical difference. We have to get strategic and push from the inside and out.

[-] -2 points by UnFriendlyObserverB (-55) 1 year ago

Let's head for the Brick Wall !

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Perhaps we could be a bit more strategic than that.

[-] 0 points by UnFriendlyObserverB (-55) 1 year ago

Well , I know one thing for sure.. if it were a bunch of "hot headed merchants " that were losing their homes and going bankrupt.. they'd be "Storming the Bastille " by now !!!!

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree that ending corporate personhood is incredibly important. Thanks for all of your efforts on that issue and thanks for the link.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We all owe you a great debt for your tireless effort to help push back against corporate personhood and citizens united.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Freedom rings 2013 We the People are Movers and Shakers HO...

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

If we unite, there's nothing we can't achieve. Together, we the 99% can make decisions form a position of united strength rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

Impossible is only a word.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Agreed. We must start to find new ways to educate people. Inform 99%'rs. Convince them life should be better. High debt, high health premiums, high college costs, low wages, and submitting to corp demands, bankster high interest credit, low interest savings accts.

Living one check away from default/poverty must be driven into our fellow citizens in a way that penetrates the anesthetic of 'bread & circuses' they have been trapped in.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right on. You are so right!

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

It's so inspiring for someone to stand in front of a row of tanks, set themselves on fire, etc., but what a shame at the same time. I wonder if I didn't have a family now if I might do something similar - often daydream about it. And often at night I dream of war and living in a police/prison state. It's so terrifying though it's a fantasy, like sailing on Viking seas. Who doesn't want to die for a noble cause? Did the movie Braveheart not inspire you to fight for freedom? I refrain, like nearly all do, to protect family. However, without freedom, health and nature, children don't have much of a life. As long as I have the ones I love, I will be shortsighted. Maybe there's a way for people like me, short on time and money, to change the course of the future ;o)

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Kavatz - please visit our OWS site, learn as much as you can and encourage people to do the same and VOTE
http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think your contribution is as important anyone who is an activist in the street -- because the whole point of the activist in the street isn't to do it for its own sake but to communicate with fellow citizens the importance of an issue. They're trying to raise awareness. And I think people like yourself all over the country who are awake to what's going on are the conduits to this awareness. You support it, affirm it, translate it for others. Direct action by the relative few who engage in it (even a march of 100,000 is only a fraction of a percent of Americans) is just a match. You and everyone who cares about this country are the fuel. Of course our families and loved ones come first. That's why you and millions and millions and millions of Americans care so much about seeing this system put back in balance, so our children and our environment and our country thrives along with all it's citizens.

This can be a virtuous cycle. The work you and millions of caring citizens do to spread the good word is so vital. It's the whole point really.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

You make a good point. I've argued on this form, that it's fruitless to protest because the people addressed in the protest don't give a shit about you; however if the object is to raise awareness, and to communicate with other fellow citizens; then protesting DOES have merit. We shouldn't expect coverage or help from the main stream media though. These corporations aren't about to shoot themselves in the foot.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree that they'll resist coverage. But at some point it becomes absurd for them NOT to cover (when the action involves huge numbers in the streets for example or when BIG foreign news is covering it). Nonviolent direct action creates a healthy crisis where untruths and corruption and injustice has to be dealt with because it's out in the light of day.

Those who worked along side Martin Luther King,Jr. and Gandhi were experts at creating this healthy tension and making sure the press had no choice but to cover it. Nonviolence is key. It exposes the weakness and viciousness of the other side.

It works.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

U R Right. Nonviolence is key. People sitting on the fence will hardly be swayed to our side, if we engage in violent actions; even if they appear justified.

The kids at UC Berkly got their point across more efficiently by "eating" pepper spray, rather than fighting the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_t2weBucMY

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22264) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Besides violence will happen - no one need to look for it - it will come looking for them. Protesting peacefully the wrongs of the world will get the ugly people looking to do ugly things to the peaceful because that is either in their nature or what they were hired for or they hired the ugly because the peaceful are threatening their ugliness.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh totally. That image went round the world and they showed AMAZING restraint. And it was that restraint that shown a bright spotlight on the odd viciousness of the other side. The disproportionate police response in this and evictions of Occupy encampments made viewers wonder just what kind of threat these peaceful protesters posed. There was a little "hmmmmmm" that went on the back of people's minds who viewed that footage around the world. Those "hmmmms" start adding up to verbal "now wait a second"s at the dinner table and by the water cooler........... Which over time can help lay the groundwork (eventually) for things like a general national strike. :)

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Until you get the Federal Reserve under control of the people, this is going to keep going.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well. I think we'd have to start here before getting to the federal reserve: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.