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Forum Post: Origin of the OWS revolution

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 7, 2011, 6:29 p.m. EST by darkhound (66)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Kid signs $150k student loan contract, and freely chooses a liberal arts degree. Kid parties and does weed for 4 years. Upon graduation, Kid is surprised his history/psychology/English degree is useless. Even more surprised that he has to pay back the loan. Kid protests, somehow blaming the "rich."

Parent sees other parent buy McMansion, so Parent wants one too. Parent puts down 0% to 5% down on a jumbo loan, leveraging up 20x plus. Parent does no research and doesn't read the mortgage contract, but signs anyway, speculating at the top of the market. Speculation on the McMansion goes bad; Parent breaches his contract. Parent protests, somehow blaming the "bank."

42 Comments

42 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

Very well put, darkhound. The reality of people who refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions.........."it's everyones fault but mine"......So glad I was raised in the 50s when we learned that there are consequences to our actions.....

[-] 2 points by Alternatives2WallSt (15) 2 years ago

""So glad I was raised in the 50s when we learned that there are consequences to our actions.....""

Kid elects Bush. Bush wrecks economy. Kid blames Obama.

[-] 1 points by fandango (241) 2 years ago

they blame bush but 0bam continues to wrecks the economy in his pursuit of destroying the country.

[-] 1 points by Alternatives2WallSt (15) 2 years ago

The war wrecked the economy. Obama was the only senator who voted against the war. If Obama had been president, there would have been no war.

If one brokerage gave you advice that lost half your money, and another gave you advice that would have saved half your money--you should take the second broker. And not go back to the first broker because the second failed to double your money in a few years.

[-] 0 points by fandango (241) 2 years ago

0bama is wrecking the country.

[-] 0 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

LMAO...........uhhuh............such denial about the current POTUS. He has FAILED this country and us

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13196) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

. . . history - it's a part of us, who we are and how we came to be what we are. We, this generation, owe it to the next to provide that information to them, so that they can see the patterns that exist in history and continue the journey of the human race into a future of peace and prosperity, a place where human dignity and human rights have real meaning and value.

Literature is a big part of that learning, of culture, of origin.

Math and Science - these too have history, and cultural roots, some of which impact political considerations of eons past. Issues such as earth is flat-ism are repeating themselves now. To know and understand one's history is to be armed with the knowledge of how things may be shaped today, and to what end.

Math and science are the foundation of civilization - without them we cannot maintain all we have built.

That we place the next generation in bondage while we meet our own obligation to them - is surreal and absurd, some abstract rendering of Dante's deepest circle rendered whole upon the canvas of life.

And so it is true - the whole world has gone mad . . . .

It will take some time, but perhaps together we can make a difference.

11/29/2011

[-] 1 points by Redsuperficiality (96) 2 years ago

Capitalism needs people to go into debt. The more debt there is the better for capitalism. More and more has to be produced in a capitalist economy otherwise it goes into crises. And then it has to sell what has been produced otherwise the investment is shot. This is the contradiction of capitalism: it is very good at producing mountains of commodities but to be able to sell those commodities it really needs an equitable distribution of income. The system pushes debt to save itself. It is the only way it can make a profit yet you are blaming the people it exploits and who it desperately needs to buy, buy, buy.

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 2 years ago

This post is just pathetic. Its another desperate attempt to excuse and ignore every rotten marketing trick, every hidden charge, every obscene charge, every illegal charge, every business lie, every broken ethics rule, every speculator, every commercial lobbyist, every bribed politician, every politician lie, every tax break, every corporate subsidy, and the GREATEST CONCENTRATION OF WEALTH IN WORLD HISTORY by blaming liberals and those who bought McMansions exclusively. Pathetic.

Now, for a hint of reality:

The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.

According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans (actually more like 98%), saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively.

The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.

The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.

Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated 44 percent of all United States wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the lower majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.

Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, some US wealth was gradually transferred back down to the majority. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. By 1976, the richest 1 percent held less than 20 percent. The lower majority held the rest. This was the recovery. A partial redistribution of wealth.

Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own 40 percent of all US wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes are sharing the rest. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.

The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible.

For the good of society, stop giving so much of your money to rich people. Stop concentrating the wealth. This may be our last chance to prevent the worst economic depression in world history. No redistribution. No recovery.

Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.

[-] 1 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

On the surface your argument appears accurate but with a little probing, it suffers from these considerations:

  1. You seem to imply that you know what skills the market demands. Well, if you directed or your likeness directed all students to those skills, then those skills would be supersaturated, causing greater supply than demand, hence the same unemployment problem.
  2. You seem to imply that history, psychology and English degrees have no merit, no utility. The world disagrees as manifested by foreign students and their money coming to America to attend our universities with those programs. English? No, we want to continue with this Orwellian promotion. Those who control the language, control. We slight these programs, we slight our reputation in the world.
  3. You place all the blame of a bad contract on the buyer. Am I to believe that the creditors with their big name MBA degrees did not see the vacuity of the housing growth? What phenomena could have possibly caused such spectacular growth in housing? None, it was fabricated (excuse pun). Bush referred to it as false optimism. (I worked in the housing industry as a financial analyst and can attest that sales commissions can motivate people do many desperate deeds. Incidentally, I tried to blow the whistle on this scam but, as always, corporate America silenced me. Yes, their words were "stop sniffing." I didn't so they got rid of the bloodhound, that would be me.)

I could go on but I'm bored with the subject and my attention to it.

[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago
  1. Everyone knows a psychology or history or English degree isn't worth the paper it is printed on. You can wax theory, but that's the simple reality.

  2. How much of a competitive advantage does an English degree give you? Close to zero. If you're more concerned with enlightenment than a job, go to Tibet and become a Buddhist.

  3. It doesn't matter who else saw it. It's the buyer's money and his responsibility to take care of his own money. No one is babysitting you anymore when you go to buy a house.

[-] 1 points by gregb325 (133) from Scranton, PA 2 years ago

How about the government taking our tax dollars, handing them over to the greedy on wall street to give themselves pay raises, jets,cars etc and returning the favor to our elected officials to make money on some inside info all the while the ponzis schemes robbing others blind? all without repruccisions, all ripped from our pocket books by our so called elected officials?

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

Wasn't worth the click.

[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

Everyone deserves a house to live in. And tuition should be cheap. It is in Europe.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

Who will pay the professors salaries, maintain the buildings, pay other staff members, the Dean's salary,etc etc etc?

Why not live in Europe if it's so wonderful to you

[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

Government support? Works in Europe and Canada and Australia and New Zealand...

Have considered it. Was offered a 300k job there, but my wife couldn't also find a job.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

Well making that kind of money your wife wouldn't need to work now would she.

It's so wonderful over there that your wife can't find a job. Not so wonderful is it.

The Government has no money to support.

[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

she enjoys working.

she's a lawyer - bar membership is jurisdictional specific.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

I cannot believe anyone would turn down a nearly HALF MILLION dollar job because of their wive's vocation and not live in wonderful perfect Europe....Interesting or total BS on your part. Whatever.

[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

I said 300k, not 500k. 200k is big difference if you didn't happen to notice, especially if my wife makes 200k currently and would have a hard time finding a job there. Otherwise, I'd be over there in a second.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

Still am not buying it.............

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[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

You have no empathy. The rich should pay for the poor. Everyone deserves a good opportunity - not just trade school.

[-] 1 points by simplesimon (121) 2 years ago

You are right. I have no empathy AT ALL. If you are 18, 20, or even 30 and you can't afford to go the university, and you don't want to incur debt, then you learn a trade so that you can work, and your WORK funds your further education. How do you think most small businesses start in this country? They don't start sitting in class learning how to mind-fuck people or each other into thinking that the world is fucked up. They do start by learning a trade, using their hands and their back, and making some goddam money.

Go out and get yours, and stop asking for everyone else to take up your slack.

[-] 2 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

rich parent allow kids to go to college, while poor kid has to work through trade school in the hope he can save up enough after 10 years to then go to college? that's not fair. all kids should have an equal opportunity in this country, based on merit - not lineage

[-] 2 points by simplesimon (121) 2 years ago

Now you know that life isn't fair. I can't believe you are so incredibly stupid to think that. Tell me, how many people have you met in you entire life that have no college debt? Have you ever even walked on to a university campus? Whose life story do people respect more, the man who rode on daddy's wallet to achieve success, or the man who worked and scrapped for every thing he has? If I had a choice in the hiring room I'd take a 35 year old who worked his way through, knows labor because he was labor, and has the battle scars combined with his SUPPLEMENTAL piece of paper over a 23 year old pussy with a famous last name every single time.

Here's another option if you have any courage at all -- Join one of the Armed Forces and earn your GI Bill. Serve your country and have your college tuition supplemented with a stipend that you EARNED. But you would never to it because you are a sniveling coward.

[-] 2 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

I'm a corporate lawyer with a household income above 500k. So don't assume too much - that I should join the armed forces for tuition - or you just look like an ass. I started with little financial help from my family, and only 7 years ago got laid off from a 45k job. So I know what hard work is and what it takes to be (fairly) successful. However, I am not arrogant enough to think that I have accomplished everything myself.

Society has a role to pay in helping the unfortunate. I can do without an extra Beamer, if it supports federal assistance for tuition for some inner city kids who excelled but don't have tuition. They don't deserve to start their real careers 10-15 years later simply because they were born in Harlem. Life is unfair, true, but they deserve some help too. That's the graciousness of the America I know.

[-] 1 points by simplesimon (121) 2 years ago

And there are systems and programs already in place to help those who are less fortunate, are there not? You can also donate your time, talent and treasure outside of those programs if you wish. No one is stopping you.

I also have a childhood friend who followed a similar path. After high school he began work with a septic tank business. He worked at that business (bought it out) until just a few years ago while also going to law school. He is now general counsel for a corporation.

There is no government cookie cutter approach or guarantee, and especially not a right, for everyone in the country to receive a college education. There are also a great number of people who do not have either the aptitude or desire to attend a university, and these people are mostly NOT in the OWS demographic.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

That is right, simplesimon.

Do some people ASSume that the rich started out rich? Okay some have inherited their wealth and they are lucky. But generally those who have money have started at the bottom, worked their fingers to the bones for many many years, haven't been around their kids growing up......they DESERVE what they have......It wasn't given to them..they worked hard. Kids now-a-days seem to think it must be handed to them.

I say no to that. They should work hard like the rest of us. That's when you reap the rewards.

My ex husband's father worked at a well known European Bank on Wall Street. The man worked from the bottom up. He started out as a mail clerk.He went to college at the same time, even started a family in the process. He worked incredibly hard. He worked up that ladder and ended up being the President of that bank for years. His kids hardly saw him. His wife hardly got to spend time with him. Not once did he complain. He wanted something bad enough he worked hard to get it.

[-] 1 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

Don't forget the likes of Bernie Madoff.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

Bernie Madoff is not the norm when it comes to financial advisors.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Oh, shit another thread by a guy that is full of shit.

[-] 0 points by darkhound (66) 2 years ago

How is any of that wrong? Facts please. Link?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

That would be your job. You might try that instead of spreading propaganda.

[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

He has a legitimate point. It's up to you to respond, or shut up.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 2 years ago

exactly

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, not really.We see what he is insinuating with his hypothetical shit. So, you shut up.

[-] 1 points by elpinio (213) 2 years ago

You don't have any decent response. Where are his facts wrong or where does his logic or insinuation fail? Without that, your response is garbage.

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[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

TROLL

Ignorant, too.

[-] 1 points by darkhound (66) 2 years ago

Just stating the truth dude.

[-] -1 points by TIOUAISE (2526) 2 years ago

Go T R O L L elsewhere, ya little muppet.

To understand WHAT MAKES A TROLL TICK - AND have a chuckle while you're at it - go to:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-trolls-think-trollosophy-exposed/

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