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Forum Post: One little hurricane and suddenly everybody believes in Climate Change.

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 7, 2012, 10:41 a.m. EST by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

68 Comments

68 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

I'm going to take 'Alok' now at all your links & thanks for posting these and also for attention - http://www.nationofchange.org/why-climate-deniers-have-no-scientific-credibility-one-pie-chart-1354370613 & http://www.nationofchange.org/greenhouse-gas-concentrations-reach-new-record-1353509096 .

I'd also recommend this post - http://occupywallst.org/forum/climate-change-is-happening-now-a-carbon-price-mus/ and the thread and links following it.

Never Give Up Occupying The Real Issues!

Solidarity.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

http://www.nationofchange.org/why-climate-deniers-have-no-scientific-credibility-one-pie-chart-1354370613

This chart is getting past around a good bit, it really does bring it home so to speak.Thanks for the link to the original work. Another good pie chart would be the net worth of the people who paid for that little sliver of red and who paid for the rest, after taking out the government funded papers, I think the story that OWS wants to tell would be reveled in that much more private money supports the much smaller position. Climate Change is a area that really revels how money creates distortions in our public policy.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

'Climate Change is a area that really reveals how money creates distortions in our public policy' - is so very true that it warrants repeating. That chart is very good and deserves wider readership. Never Give Up Occupying The Issues! Solidarity.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Thank you, keep up the good work, a lot of the forum is chatter, but when I encounter someone with the ability and desire to "spread the word", IMHO, I like to take a little extra time in answering.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

'Arctic Report Card' Shows Region Spiraling Into Volatile State Due To Climate Change - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/arctic-report-card-2012-global-warming_n_2250737.html?utm_hp_ref=green#slide=1114416 & thanks for your kind words and good work. Never Give Up Trying To Occupy The Future!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Thanks for the link, it talks about reaching a tipping point, long ago I learned about inflection points and I have spent many years watching their effect, a few decades ago Gladwell wrote a book about it,

http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/

"The loss of spring snow cover affects the length of the growing season, the timing and dynamics of spring river runoff, permafrost thawing, and wildlife populations. This was the third time in five years that North America saw a record-low spring snow cover, and the fifth year in a row that Eurasia has."

this looks like we have reached that tipping point.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

That was an interesting link. Thank you and it makes me think about buying the book. I agree with your premise and think that 'Runaway Global Warming' via positive feedback loops, ie. - more Arctic ice melt = more dark ocean exposure = increased heat absorption and decreased reflection & increased global temperature = increase methane and water vapour etc., - is not just possible but very probable. It's not paranoia, it's science! Never Give Up On Logic! Occupy The Math! Thanks again for your link. Solidarity.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

just re-read my comment, I think that should have been " a few years ago" not decades, sorry about that, small point but i like to keep things as clean as I can...

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

' Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas. Pound for pound, it warms the climate about 25 times more than carbon dioxide. EPA has found that the impacts of climate change caused by methane include “increased air and ocean temperatures, changes in precipitation patterns, melting and thawing of global glaciers and ice, increasingly severe weather events—such as hurricanes of greater intensity—and sea level rise.” In 2009, EPA determined that methane and other greenhouse gases endanger the public’s health and welfare.' - from - http://www.nationofchange.org/new-york-s-attorney-general-files-intent-sue-epa-failing-address-methane-emissions-oil-and-gas-indus . Also with reference to OWS & Hurricane Sandy - http://www.nationofchange.org/occupy-sandy-provides-relief-more-just-storm-1355391165 . Thanks for your accuracy and Never Give Up Occupying The Issues! Solidarity.

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[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Pressure Obama on EPA action. He can address carbon without congressional action.

http://grist.org/climate-energy/obama-can-tackle-carbon-and-doesnt-need-congress/

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

The crazies have to have a reason to explain why they have been idiots for years. Here is my idea for a new fuel - take all of the Rs politicians and put them in a room and use the methane they excreete from their mouths - to power a city.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I got this from liberal on FB too it's a good one...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Word is getting out past the corpoRAT news blackouts and nay-saying.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

ache4change put up the source link talks about his method for the chart good stuff

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - individuals - sharing - spreading - circulating - information - is how we move forward.

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[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Some streets in Norfolk VA already flood on a regular basis - no storm or storm surge required. Home of the Navy on the east coast - funds are being sought to rework the Navy's docks.

[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

In NY our daily high tides have risen at least a foot over the last twenty years. Truthfully science is forty years behind the times; my grandfather and I had concluded almost forty years ago that the seas were rising; science, environmentalists - all denied this until very recently. And now instead of addressing the impending issue of climate change we are focused on reducing emissions; worse we've attached a price tag to it and whenever you do that - especially if it's a government price tag - someone just grows rich at everyone else's expense. So there is no doubt that in the future we will inhabit less real estate. It irks me to no end that some have chosen to make a political issue of this; year after year we debate cause to grow our little political bases - WHO CARES - we should focus on solution. That's what intelligent people do, they focus on solution. I sincerely question the intelligence of our politicians and those underlings too close to the ever raging political fire.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Are you talking about NY or Fort Belvoir, VA.?

[-] 1 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

NY. Our our daily tides here have been rising since at least the early 1920s; in my own neighborhood they are now a foot higher than they were twenty years ago. In my opinion, our tides rose a foot and a half over the last century. And I base this on repeated interviews with people of former generations.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Time to build a retractable storm sea wall south of Verrazanno Bridge! And maybe relocate residents off the southern portions of our barrier islands.

And of course stop compounding the problem!! End the burning of fossil fuels!!

[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

Sure, sounds like a good idea to me.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Our use of fossil fuel must end - at the same time actions need to be taken to deal with the issue of the changing climate - like get people off of low lying areas on the coasts - as storms reek damage rebuild elsewhere. We can't spend all our time rebuilding storm damage that is gonna be repeated.

[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

Unfortunately MR DKA that will not solve the problem; we've been reducing coal emissions since the 1950s, auto emissions since the 70s. It's just a bunch of political horseshit; it's time to re-engineer our atmosphere.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago
[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

Well, yes and no. I'm talking worldwide atmospheric sensors and a machine capable of tweaking.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Sensors to identify where pollution is? I wouldn't spend too much on that since I can tell you where the highest levels would be. Wherever large populations of developed people live!

Tweaking? What does that mean?

[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

To build an atmospheric defense would require billions of sensors in the lower, middle, and upper atmosphere. Our defense is in ? Whatever...

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Billions of sensors for defense? against what?

[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

For defense against rising temps... we can create the ability to regulate the planet's heat. Albeit, somewhat experimentally.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I think not. It is a bit hubris ti think we can control the temp like that.

We can affect the weather by creating/finding a way to naturally absorb the carbon that is contributing to climate change.

but to manufacture "sensors" would create more pollution. Better we focus on naturally absorbing carbon.

Plant millions of trees! That's the answer.

[-] -1 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

We can do it and we're going to do it. It's not just about controlling temps, either. It's also about minimizing storm damage.

Carbon absorption is but one element, one aspect, of the green house gas dilemma. But yea, we're going to do that, too.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

If you say so. You have articles about the atmospheric sensors.?

[-] -2 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

I am the article. And also the oracle.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Wow you sound really important. Are you also the alpha & the Omega?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Or at least the orifice.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Have we? Have we really made a concerted effort? I think not - it has been mostly political BS. We do not attempt to re-engineer our atmosphere - HELL NO. We work "really work" at cleaning the atmosphere - removing the damage that we have done - at the same time changing our energy practices right now to stop adding to the damage.

[-] 0 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

In 1954, in the city of London, 4500 people died of lung disease due to coal inhalation. So, of course they have. And we've been improving auto emissions since the 70s. It's a bandaid because increased population demands outstrip our ability to improve.

I don't think we're going to see science implement any corrective measures. Our tech, unfortunately, is at least 40 years behind.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thought you might also appreciate this :

EIP Report: Cost Of Deaths From 18 Coal-Fired Power Plants ... www.prnewswire.com/.../eip-report--cost-of-deaths-from-18-coal-fir... Jun 7, 2012 – Estimated pollution-related premature deaths were highest at the ... Coal helped to power America's industrial revolution, and electricity is ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And yet you envisage re-engineering the atmosphere?

[-] -1 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

I think there is a real lot to consider; for example, what effect all those minute sensors... but yea, with quantum computing and years of study, I believe it may be doable. The thing is it might be twenty or thirty years before we can implement it so I want people to strap in now; I want science on board now. Climate control is something we may very well have to implement to ensure our survival as population increases. Is that too radically conservative for you?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

2013 will be an important year, if we get hit on the east coast again and the Arctic ice slips lower, then we have to accept the connection and realize things have changed.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Major storms on the coasts major drought in the center. Accompanied by wild storms tornadoes. Yeah someone better add one and one and come up with two.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The west coast just got nailed too. The realization had better come hand in hand with real effort to make changes in our fossil fuel use.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Pressure Obama on EPA action. He can address carbon without congressional action.

http://grist.org/climate-energy/obama-can-tackle-carbon-and-doesnt-need-congress/

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The public needs to speak out in a very large manner. Give a true public mandate on what needs to be done.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I think this action by Obama is a good target for the public.

Certainly our part can be educating, and pushing the public to agitate for Obama to act!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It can be a more complete mandate. On the environment destruction pollution - climate change storms drought and destruction - needed upgrade to our power/energy base - linking in new industries and jobs ( paying a living wage ) to meet the needs of our present day realities and the coming future changes of a global warming climate.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Sounds good I support all that.

I wouldn't exclude this effort since it is a milestone on the way to all that.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Expect the deniers of mans impact to poo poo this and all reports.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I feel that this could be "the big one" the economic forces against the life interest here is great and growing. If we leave this one to "the market" like we do almost everything else, and that list is growing, then we may end our ability to maintain human life at anywhere near it's current levels, hard to say what the long term affect of that will be.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That researcher/photographer Baylock(?) that took those stunning time lapse photographs of the retreating glaciers? He was on Letterman last night and they showed a couple of clips showing the glaciers retreating.

Anyway some of this stuff about the changing environment is now starting to hit - TV - people are starting to see some of this information - on - the - idiot box.

I think we are past the point of ignoring the world around us.

Now we need to get pro-active instead of re-active. Plan and work for the future. Not run around and put out fires here and there as they pop up - and then figure if something better could have been done prior - while cleaning-up the damage.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I've seen that guy before he does really good work, thanks for the tip, here's the link:

http://www.cbs.com/shows/late_show/video/FD4BD6C4-B4A8-DFF9-9DB3-92E91CB6C52B/the-late-show-12-12-2012

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - thanks for the link - for anyone who would like to take a look - Global warming and it effects happening now - mans contribution to the acceleration - the fact that things can be done - and are not being done etc etc The segment did not get real deep into discussion but it did bring the subject to the table on MSM for the general public to see.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

David talks like a rich man can't help himself with all the nothing can be done and we got to adapt, easy for the man with millions to say. I like Dave but ever since he got his big money just before Clinton raised taxes in 1993 he's been a little prissy.

[-] 0 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago
[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Electing corporate parties decade after decade has its down sides.

Ya, you get more neat gadgets, but overall quality of life will keep going down.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Election is over! Your repubs lost! Stop whining, Get in the street. And fight for the progressive change that benefits 99%.

Un fuckin believable!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Nader helping Bush beat Gore had it's down side too, people doing stupid shit like voting third party has pretty much fucked us.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Nader the traitor has crawled under a rock,

It’s the only place safe from the things that he wrot.

As millennia approached us, we had one last shot,

To keep the plant we’re on from getting, too damn hot.

But Nader thought better his name should be heard.

And Gore was left standing with only his word.

(still like this one)

[-] -2 points by hemihead (-6) 1 year ago

poo poo

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Is that the sound of air escaping while you drown?

[-] -2 points by lignite (-303) 1 year ago

Yes climate change is a hoax and only is redistribution of wealth. The Earth temp has only risen one degree over the past hundred years. The so called climate scientist / gore got busted a few years ago "climate gate" They continue to try new angles to keep the climate change "spinning" Now the latest is hurricanes are caused by Global warming. Too bad the cow farts did not work out well for them either

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

What about the true meaning of your confederate flag?, you haven't clarified.

Is it racist, & evil like the article you linked, or a symbol of "southern pride"?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7065) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

The thing about reality is it don't give a damn how stupid you are it is going to happen anyway, the ice is melting and if we are too stupid to do anything about it, well that's probably for the best. I'm sure God don't need stupid people in Heaven anyway.