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Forum Post: Odin shows his true partisan self:

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 7, 2012, 6:10 a.m. EST by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

[-] -2 points by Odin (2922) from Island Heights, NJ 17 hours ago Reality does matter. Look at all the "people losing their homes," and have lost their chance for a golden retirement, under Obama. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5936) from Phoenix, AZ 0 minutes ago Like all Republicans you would blame Obama for a rainy day. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink

http://occupywallst.org/forum/climate-change-deniers-and-third-party-supporters-/#comment-798531

103 Comments

103 Comments


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[-] 7 points by shadz66 (17898) 1 year ago

This is an outrageous personal attack !!! Anyone who thinks that 'forum-poster Odin' is a RepubliC0N is :

  • a) Wearing their (x) as a hat ;

  • b) Has an agenda re this forum ;

  • c) A clearly partisan Democrap ;

  • d) Sowing sly suspicion & strife ;

  • e) And/or ----- All of the above !!!

Many in The U$A seem irredeemably mired in 'The Illusory DemoCrap / RepubliC0N Binary' ! Some on this forum seem to regard anyone who says "a plague on both houses" and who sees Obomber and 'Mitt for B(r)ains' as essentially two wholly Corporate Controlled Clones - as somehow subversive !! 'Imo' - 'Odin' is truer to the 'Spirit of OWS' than any pre-programmed, partisan Democrap is or can ever be !!!

This forum post is beyond the pale & serves only those reactionary, right-wing, human-haters - who very deeply oppose 'OWS'. Shame on you 'frf' & ask yourself ...

Cui Bono ?

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

Well said.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

thanks

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

In life you are known by what you do, on a forum you are known by what you say,

I have never hidden my hatred for the Republican Party and all they stand for, does that make my opinion of less value?

Odin offers nothing but attacks on those that either oppose Rs or support Ds he has nothing else to say, and never engages in honest debate, instead insists that we not talk about it here, if not here then where? He sounds like a bank clerk telling occupiers that they should be more polite.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (17898) 1 year ago

There's much in what you say and I too detest 'The Republicon Party' but admit it mate - (to yourself if not to us publicly) it's personal between you & 'O' !!! Re. 'OWS' - the real work actually starts after November's election - irrespective of whoever gets in !!

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

honest feedback should be accepted, not judged, ego is the enemy

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (17898) 1 year ago

What you say there is fair and reasonable & maybe we all ought to reflect on it.

pax et lux ...

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

dishonest feedback should be fact checked

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

It is rather asinine to blame the President for foreclosures - a policy was implemented at his urging that should have provided relief to those home owners whose mortgages were under water - it has had only small success, and that appears to be the fault of the banks and the bureaucracy.

IT's a cheap shot, and does not reflect the reality of the mortgage crisis - and that is perfectly consistent with repelican policy and practice.

You are just too lazy to examine the various causes behind the breakdown in Congress, or how repelicans even as a minority are and have been able to shape policy.

Are both parties to blame? Sure - but that doesn't explain how the breakdown has occurred, and it does not quantify what responsibility belongs on to each party.

Simply saying both are guilty and both are in the pockets of big money is insufficient and not entirely accurate.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (17898) 1 year ago

Who has "blamed" your hallowed "President for foreclosures" ? Or are you just going off what 'frf' said ? Did you even read that thread ? Odin & 'frf' have their issues clearly but the truth is that the two are more similar to each other than they are different or even similar to anything remotely 'republic0n', imho.

'El Pres Obomber' can take the cheap shots but his personal quiescence in his own emasculation is really something to behold !!! D'you remember the tide of hope that he rode in on after that 'Asswipe Dubya' ?!! How much has fundamentally changed after Baby Bush's 8 years ?! Maybe you're one of the few left in the world that do not feel let down by him but face it - Oblah-blah has been a HUGE let down.

You seem to be inclined to defend Obummer and blame the nuances of 'US Politricks' for "the various causes behind the breakdown in Congress, or how repelicans even as a minority are and have been able to shape policy." but the truth is much more depressing - he's 'Corporate Captured & Controlled' - like almost pretty much everyone else in 'US Polytricks', other than Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt !!).

Re. - "Simply saying both are guilty and both are in the pockets of big money is insufficient and not entirely accurate." - So just how accurate is it then ?! You'll have to tell me as apparently, I'm "just too lazy to" find out for myself, lol.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Who has "blamed" your hallowed "President for foreclosures" ?

Odin, in the comment cited in the Forum Post, blamed President Obama for the foreclosures.

And the President isn't a hallowed figure, he is the President, not a religious icon or figure head.

You said that the forum post was an outrageous personal attack !!!

And then you continued with the lines:

Many in The U$A seem irredeemably mired in 'The Illusory DemoCrap / RepubliC0N Binary' ! Some on this forum seem to regard anyone who says "a plague on both houses" and who sees Obomber and 'Mitt for B(r)ains' as essentially two wholly Corporate Controlled Clones - as somehow subversive !!

You are defending a line of thinking as if it were sacred. It is not. It is a line of thinking for which there is appearance, but closer examination reveals that the issue is much more complex than it would appear.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (17898) 1 year ago

Saying that 'foreclosures' happened on Obomber's watch isn't blaming him directly but pointing out the simple fact & his ineffectual measures at preventing them. Semantics aside, my reason for commenting was my "outrage" at calling 'Odin' a republicon. You'd feel no less outraged if someone slurred you with such a baseless accusation & I suspect you'd take it quite personally. Finally, I find the rest of what you say specious though no doubt you'll accuse me of the same, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

minima maxima sunt ...

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

The way it was stated by Odin, as reflected above in the forum post, is identical with repelican tactics of smear by association.

A program was passed, one that could have provided a great deal of relief to homeowners, but it did not.

You should be asking why not?

And whoever wants to slur me as a repelican operative, is welcome to do so. The notion is so far from reality that I am sure it would generate quite a bit of laughter . . . .

Calling me a dem operative, while equally false, might get a bit more traction. The fact is, no one pays me for my opinion or advocacy. No one dares, I am sure, because what organization wants to be financially tied to someone who can be shown to have made statements like this:

[-] 2 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 1 year ago

Are both parties to blame? Sure - but that doesn't explain how the breakdown occured.

That appears to be the fault of the banks and the bureaucracy.

It always is. It's an illusion to believe the dems were fighting hard for these things but couldn't quite get there because of the other factors. The other factors are always present!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

We must demand filibusters on the Senate floor, and be proud to do it if it comes to that.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

It's hard to play chicken when the other side wins with only a draw -

repelicans are so intent on smaller government, deregulation, lower taxes for the wealthy, and the preservation on their own grip on power, that they are perfectly content to destroy the very institutions wherein they serve.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I agree, I think if they had to stand and defend some of their positions where we could watch on CSPAN it might be harder for them to do and we might get better government, hard to say, but it reminds of trolls, if you have a point and something to say then stand and say it, when you're done we'll have a vote, if you want to keep talking we can do that too, these cons and trolls alike are scared that people will learn what they want to do.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

that is why I have a face to go with my opinion - I'm not afraid to get one wrong once in a while - it happens, hard to believe I know.

repelicans are some of the most devious con men on the planet.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You Nailed it Shadz!!!!

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Odin has been rude and disrespectful towards me. I'm allowed to support President Obama. I don't have to be insulted and bullied for encouraging everyone to vote out the conservatives I believe are the problem.

Thats his style. He has made it clear that my views are not pure enough for OWS. You sound as if you agree. Well guess what? You and Odin are not "the deciders" You buy into the story that the parties are the same? I disagree! They are vastly different. If we want real change as so many OWS "revered founders" claim then we MUST use this system to lay the ground work. We must elect progressives and vote out pro 1% conservatives.

We can't give up and add more to the apathetic population. The apathy is what the 1% plutocrats want and is why they have been able to take over the republican party and always get enough dems to vote for their conservative policies.

We can disagree but if it becomes attacks and efforts to bully and/or silence then it starts to feel fascistic.

I think OWS "embraces all non violent tactics" and "all political persuasions. Not just the approach of surrendering the ballot to the right wing wackos.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (17898) 1 year ago

Relax ! My predominant point of contention is that Odin is no RepubliC0N !! Absolutely of course, "Elect Progressives" --- WTF is the option, for goodness sake ?!!!

However, seen from an international perspective - 'Demoblican or Republocrat', it really makes very little difference - as The Global Imperial US-MIC rolls ever onwards & indeed even within The U$A - both sides are clearly 'Corporate Captured & Controlled' !!

Voting 'Democrat' is like wiping one's own ass - NOT a productive subject for nice conversation in polite company ... but WTF is the option ? The real question is - just how long are Americans going to put up with this 'schizoid binary' ?!

qui tacet consentire ...

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We must keep the far worse right wing from gaining more power. It is possible that we can lay the ground work for the electoral change we need to create 3rd party opportunity or even improve the lives of the 99%.

We may disagree that a strong progressive movement can drag the dems back from the righwing. But we need to be tolerant of each others opinions.

I will not give up, lose hope, become apathetic. There is value in voting for progressives if we can maintain a strong growing progressive movement that continues to agitate for real change.

That is the difference today. OWS is not even 1 year old. If it can grow as it has we can continue changing the national discussion and have a real affect on what legislation is passed.

It matters. We shouldn't bully each other, we shouldn't tell each other your "views are not pure", "you should shut up", "You should find another site"

For people with those views I say: Are we together? Or not? I am not your enemy. Please don't treat me like one.

inclusion, and growth of the movement is the only way!

"We should treat each other as if we will be working together for years" J Stein.

Peace

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

When you support one of two war mongering parties, you should expect some hostility.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We must discuss things with respect. As individuals we should"disarm". We should refrain from "attacks".

Peace in national behavior, as well as individual discourse.

Of course I expectviolent discourse. just as I expect hostile national behavior. But still I agitate for the better way.

Why won't you?.

Do you enjoy calling people names.? does it make you feel superior? Some people can't lift themselves up without putting others down. We should be aware of that. Wgen I was a kid the ranking out of each always led to violence. It's natural. I guess you don't have to worry about that in a virtual world.

Please turn away from the dark side. Embrace Peace. Not war.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

You've got some gall to talk about treating people with respect.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I believe it. I live it (mostly). I know it is the only way to move issues forward. Eventually you may get over this personal attack on me, (hopefully) Eventually you might discuss smoething of substance instead of trying convince people of the fallacy that the parties are the same and we should give up our right to vote.

Eventually, but I don't know when.

Peace, Love & Soul.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Because Im sick and tired of people endorsing murders thats why!!!

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Who endorses muders? Not me. I'n against thedrone bombings. To suggest otherwise is intentionally dishonest. Why must you use lies to make your point.? Please stick with the truth.

If your tired it might be time for your nap. If your sick I submit it has nothing to do with the "muderer supporters".

Hang in there. The progress we've made from a million murdered to thousands murdered represents real progress towards the goal of no murders that you claim you want.

And today a UN group announced that violence in Afghan is lowest in 5 years. More progress towards the goal you pretend to want.

Let's celebrate Pres Obama who is responsible for all this progress!!

Peace.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You endorse murder when you vote for a murderer.

It's like a Bush supporter saying they do not support the wars but they like all his other policies.

The ACLU said murdering American citizens is not only illegal but it's wrong. What do you think?

In your opinion how many countries should we be bombing right now? How many is Obama bombing this year?

What does the term militant mean according to Obama and the government? Is it a term created to mask the deaths of innocents?

When they drone strike how do you feel about drone striking right away when people go in to help the wounded? Do you agree with these policies?

And when the previous guy killed a million people in 1 war alone... I pray to a god I don't believe in that the second guy's murder rate better be lower.

Less murder is not peace. Less murder is still murder.

If you disagree with the bombings, why do you attack people speaking out against them?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I support Pres Obama because his reduction in killings represents momentum in the right direction.

I can't jump out of the plane just as it is landing. He has made great progress. in spite of the pressure/attacks from the republicans you serve with these unreasonable attacks.

Peace. It is close. Don't screw it up by attacking the guy who is working to bring it.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

he's not bringing peace. It's already almost been 4 years. Why are the wars still going at all?

If you disagree with the bombings, why do you speak out against the people speaking out against the bombings?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I'm trying to bring reality to your unrealistic expectations. I'm challenging your unreasonable attacks exclusivly on Pres Obama.

Thats all.

We disagree. I know we will have peace with Pres Obama. You are working to prevent his re election which will bring us Romney the republican escalator.

Thats what I am fighting against. Your efforts serve Romney.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Bush told America that if they don't support the wars they support al qaeda.

That argument is invalid.

I can speak out against the wars and al qaeda.

Just like I can speak out against Obama and Romney. But go ahead and keep telling me that i "serve Romney" it only shows how full of shit you are.

Go read my anti-romney posts. I just posted one a couple days ago. Romney wants to start a war as soon as he takes office if he were to win. I definitely don't support Romney. When you say I do... you lose all credibility.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

President Obama has:

Repealed the "water boarding isn't torture logic" of Bush,

Stopped torture by the US

Stopped extraordinary rendition

Closed secret CIA prison camps, attempted to try gitmo prisoners, and close gitmo, repubs prevented.

Has not added any new indefinate detention cases.

Ended Bushs illegal Iraq Oil war. And ending Bushs Affghan war.

Supported the rebels in Libya w/o the invasion the war mongers wanted.

Same in Syria. And still successfully resisting republican war mongers pressure to invade Iran.

Cut the military budget, & merc use which repubs would never do.

We've stopped killing MILLIONS.

If we want our leaders to do the right thing we should support the progress.

Peace

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

sweet that's awesome! I like Obama on several issues.... but he needs to stop the other issues I mentioned. issues he has control in.

from before

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the bombs in over 6 countries over the past 3 years

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the death in Libya

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the death in Somalia

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the deaths and use of Black Water in Afghanistan Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the warships around Iran

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the KBR contracts

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the Boeing contracts

Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the raytheon contracts

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify that our country has been nvolved in Bush's war on terror for 11 years and counting.

Also we don't need a repeat of supporting rebels like back in the 1980's that lead to the creation of the taliban.

NATO admitted that Hezbollah and al aqaeda were among the rebels in libya. Video evidence has surfaced of the rebels capturing and torturing black people for being black.

Hillary Clinton has said one of the reason we haven't fully backed the rebels in Syria is due to the Al Qaeda and Hamas groups that are among the rebels. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17170775

We can't just support rebel groups because we share a common enemy. Usually people with missiles and ak 47's are not the people who want true peace.

Let's not repeat failed policies of the 1980's that lead to the creation of the Taliban.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Then stop serving Romney with the ridiculous attacks on Pres Obama.

There is no way anyone could do what you want in 1 term. You know that. That is why I know you areserving Romney. Cause you know it is impossible. We can only hope for some progress. And we got amazing progress. despite the resistance from the republican war mongers and the MIC.

You ignore that and talk about "6 countries" LOL you attack the presidents success and focus on "3 Americans"

We've stopped killing MILLIONS!!

It's is an excellent start. Lets see what we can do with 4 more years.

End the drone attacks!

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

speaking out against the muder of american citizens is not riciculous

speaking out against illegal drone strikes is not ridiculous

speaking out against the recent 11 years of war is not ridiculous

Stop serving the bombs and speak out against all wrong and illegal actions taken by ALL

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We've stopped killing MILLIONS. If we want our leaders to do the right thing we should support the progress.

Peace

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

lol whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the bombs in over 6 countries over the past 3 years

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the death in Libya

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the death in Somalia

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the deaths and use of Black Water in Afghanistan

Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the warships around Iran

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the KBR contracts

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the Boeing contracts

Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the raytheon contracts

whatever you need to tell yourself to justify that our country has been involved in Bush's war on terror for 11 years and counting.

Stick to saying you support Obama because you hate Romney. Thats makes logical sense. Don't try and say Obama advocates peace. That is a lie and there are thousands of bombs to prove that.

[+] -4 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

there is no use in trying to tell Obama supporters that assassinating American citizens is wrong. They do not care and will vote for him anyway.

It's like trying to convince Romney supporters that Romney is part of the capitalist problem that abuses and exploits the 99%... or trying to convince them that opposing equal rights for LGBT is wrong... or that austerity is wrong... They are blinded by their party allegiance.

But it's still fun to try and convince them. Hahaha

Never give up

[-] 3 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Perhaps Obama's directed role is as sacrificial lamb to destroy the Democratic Party. His policies are not in the DP's tradition. But we must vote for him to save the country (look at the states' with whack-a-doodle RATpublican governors) and take back the Democratic Party.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You're right about runoffs, a great way to help the people express their will.

[-] 2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

It was rpc972 who brought them up. Instant Runoff Elections are so simple and so powerful. They need to be an integral part of electoral reform: transparent and verifiable voting (as opposed to our current bogus system), independent exit polling, plus the instant runoff system.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

No real reason we could not have Instant runoff, or even runoff elections I think but there might be date certain set so that could be the "problem" (excuse) but instant runoffs we could do and should, (rpc has more than a few good ideals)

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Has anyone else noticed how "odin" and "frovikleka" never makes any contributions to the forum? It seems all he wants to do is attempt to keep OWS supporters out of the voting booth or at the decision making process as far as who does in the end win office. I am convinced this because he fears the defeat of Republicans should OWS act in it's best interest. Here are links to all posts by "both" of them:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=User%3Afrovikleka

http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=User%3Aodin

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

"odin" thought we should talk about this some more, he feels there may be some who don't know that he is just a TROLL

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

This board is rife with RepubliCon Plants and Shills!!

Given every benefit of the doubt, Odin is one, too.

Notice how their solutions are always doing nothing, certainly not Voting, unless it's for a third party with no chance of winning.

When presented with the facts that Cons will never allow Instant Runoff Elections so that third parties (whom they sooo favor) can win, they go SILENT!!!

That's because RepubliCons can't steal multi-party elections, and they can't sell PLUTOCRACY!!! No Buyers!!

I add Trevor and Matt! Sorry, if you're not part of the VOTE in the Election, You Are Part of the PROBLEM!!!!

I am not going to have to say "I told you so" after this election!!! NO!!

Get out the VOTE!!!!

[-] 3 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

"When presented with the facts that Cons will never allow Instant Runoff Elections so that third parties (whom they sooo favor) can win, they go SILENT!!!"

You hit the nail on the head here. To be against Instant Runoff Elections is to be for stolen and manipulated elections and against democracy.

[-] 2 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Thanks Brooklyn, are our cities similar like they say, PDX?

Let's get out that VOTE!!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

instant runoffs could be done and we should do them much better way for the people to be heard...

[-] 2 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Right. But they ain't gonna happen 'til we get rid of them Cons!!

Get out the VOTE!!

http://www.gottavote.org/en/?choose-state=true

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

you're right about tm, I don't agree about matt, I understand him I think, I've been there too, I think, not to say I really know what another feels....

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

I just wasted an hour or more on one of your other posts (deniers and no-Voters) reading the pedantic party with zen and geo, OMFingG!!! If I didn't think it was way too much work, I'd say it was staged and they both wore powdered wigs while doing it. Worse yet, it could have been one person, displaying his lonesome, "Psycho," colloquy. Completely pointless but mesmerizing. Then poor simp dk chimed in (I'm afraid he's one, too). I was goading mat and he freaked out, then he deleted all he said. Did you see his OWS compilation? What a strange thing this board is. Do you know of another? I've asked this many times and I never get a satisfying answer: Do you, or anyone you know, go to RW sites? I don't, they're too bitchy about who they let in.

Just herd a new great Obama-ism: "Romneyhood."

You must dump NPR: http://www.randirhodes.com/main.html | http://normangoldman.com/ | http://www.ringoffireradio.com/

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (20506) 1 year ago

No, factsrfun, Odin is not a Republican. Just because someone doesn't support the Democrats doesn't mean they are a Republican. God, I hope we have more choices than that.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I didn't actually say odin was a Republican just that he behaves and speaks like one here on the site, in that he blames Obama for everything. maybe I should of said "you also" to have been more clear, still it seems for a non-partisan site people sure don't like to be called Republican around here.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20506) 1 year ago

If someone doesn't like Obama it does not make them a Republican. That's oversimplifying things.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Fair enough, actions do matter though and hurting Obama's attempt to defeat Romney takes us in the wrong direction, in my opinion, I am clear and honest about that, I do not believe everyone is as honest.

Some attack the Democrats as I attack Republicans, but when asked I say yes, “I’m a yellow dog democrat” they say “I’m non partisan”

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20506) 1 year ago

I totally get your point. There is validity to both Odin's argument and yours and that is why we should all stick together. In the end, we all want what is best and right.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I'm totally independent -

and the proper term is

  • R.E.P.E.L.I.C.A.N.

r.e.p.e.l.i.c.a.n.

you can say it.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I've been censored, for simply relating what another said and being misunderstood to be calling someone a Republican on this non partisan site. Not sure of continuing in a place where truth is unwelcome, I've always said I was only interested if others were too.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I hear that - and that does make it difficult to tell which of the kids really believe what they are saying and which ones are operatives.

I try to take them at their word - and just push back against those who push the neoliberal theory - because that is crazy, it's insane, and it should be obvious that it is antithetical to what OWS organized against.

I hope I've been successful in that regard - I know it does piss people off.

And yup - I've been shadow banned on occasion myself. Not to mention the spam attacks . . . and other shit.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

ahh so is that a "shadow ban" where you can see the post but others can't?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

yes it is.

I think Matt had a small hissy a week or so ago, and shadow banned me - not sure. It only lasted a couple of hours. I could be wrong - it could have been someone else.

I wasn't sure what inspired it, but now it looks like it wasn't anything all that serious.

Sometimes I say shit and people get really really pissed.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

thanks, I could offer feedback, but I don't think you really need it, most folks know when they've overstated, but this post? I thought it quite tame.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I haven't followed Odin very closely - and blaming the President is easy to do. It is lame, and doesn't fit the facts - he has tried to curb the foreclosures - success has not been very high, and the smoke around the issue fairly thick.

Then there's peer pressure.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

it was recently reported that over half of people die leaving less than $10,000, the whole game is about stripping middle class people of everything before they die, so their children will not become a threat to the children of the wealthy, it is always about the children...

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I guess I'm right on target then.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I saw they dropped the "zendog has gone crazy and is killing people" post OK I can see that, but pointing out that someone, namely odin, holds to the Republican line of blame everything on Obama, and that is treated the same? The thing here is there are dangerous people to the cause, those that come as friends are the most dangerous of all.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Is Odin bent on an agenda? is he genuinely one of the squiddy kids. Is he punching a time card?

I can't tell. I haven't followed him around enough to know.

On a side note - perhaps I have gone mad.

I went to the store yesterday - a black suv came up behind me kinda fast - not real fast, but a little closer behind me than I like - so I pulled off.

I didn't actually count the black suvs I saw in traffic after that, but traffic was kinda light, and it did seem there were an unusual number of them.

The store wasn't very crowed - the number of people in the store for that time of day on that day of the week seemed . . . appropriate . . .

and all I saw were sock puppets.

Perception can be a tricky thing - especially when you really cannot quantify the motivation of every single individual you meet.

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[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I think the problem with Odin is that he SERVES republican 1% interests when he attacks dems/Pres Obama unfairly, while just cursory negative comments about republicans.

Further his extra offensive efforts to attack anyone who defends dems/Pres Obama as people whose views "do not belong here" do not reflect the "views of OWS". He has frequently set himself up as the judge and interrogator to find anyone who is pro voting for dems.

He seems like the grand high inquisitor to me. I won't submit. Iam allowed to support Dems/pres Obama and OWS.

Peace

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I think that's why I brother to mention him, he seems so sure that he speaks for the movement, and I don't think people should do that.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You are correct. His comments to me are always offensive. He knows so much better than me.

I suppose the people who defend him do not mind excluding people who disagree with Odin. I suppose these are the people who are fine surrendering the ballot to the right wing.

Many disagree that we MUST keep the right wing away from power if we want to lay the groundwork for the new system of governance they claim to want.

If only they exerted that energy trying to come to consensus on the right path to the horizontal, direct democracy. Instead of attacking OWS supporters who could join with them.

We are unpure, not worthy, No voting allowed. Do what the revered leaders decree.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

you seem like to believe that you are on a higher plane than anyone who disagrees with you. Still cursing people out?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I am a regular guy. Who believes we must create a new system of govt. Since we have an election in 80 odd days we must 1st and foremost keep republican 1% tools out. Elect progressives whereever possible. Agitate all pols for the laws we need (money out of politics, other election reform) to lay the ground work for our new system.

I'm not on a higher plain (thats you) My way is not the only way! Or the best way. It is my poor approach to this corrupted system.

We haven't recreated a new system yet. So we must deal with the existing one. If not repub 1% tools will getmore power. You don;t want that do you?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I would advise caution with regard to guilt by association, each should speak for them-self and I take all comments as such.

Where I may see a thing others may honestly not, it has happened many times.

If I have learned anything, it is that all who wish to help should be welcomed.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I agree. I'm not judging his defenders. They have had a different experience with Odin certainly. Mostly I've found them to be reasonable people.

And I certainly welcome all here. I am 1st and foremost hopeful that we can grow the movement. My efforts here and in the real world are only to put forward a theory of progress for all (even the 1%) with respect and civility.

I avoid the insults, vulgarity and personal attacks that I see Odin (and others) take part in. In fact when people do that they portray conservative intolerance, not progressive tolerance.

I am for inclusion. I welcome a debate in the marketplace of ideas. I believe the views of OWS are strong enough to succeed without the abuse and disrespect.

Peace

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I admit I do use all my words sometimes, it is just the choice I made, the truth is, it is more civil here than the real life discussions I am accustomed to (no one's tried to drown my kid here yet). I spent many years going toe to toe, and when I left there i think I missed it a bit, but each provides the light they can, as we find our gift and how to use it, we grow like life once started we cannot be stopped or controlled.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You don't have to defend your approach to me. I have also been insulting. I find one side more so, and I find they resort to it quickly because they cannot argue the facts.

I think you are one of the few on this site I support.

Stay strong. More power to you. Solidarity.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

In fact when people do that they portray conservative intolerance, not progressive tolerance.

You are of course, correct. This has a result of overlooking one small fact - or perhaps two. Intolerance is a conservative tool, a weapon if you like, a method of bending the people to a specific goal. It is, as such, a thing that inspires fear among conservatives.

And why not?

After all,

  • they are intolerable

and this is a fact they know quite well.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Intolerance is a tool to enforce the rule, if the King's rule is not enforced, how will he rule?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Agreed!

You are relentless. Stay strong.

Peace

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

conservative repelicans are a pernicious breed, infected with the sickness of greed. And it is a sickness - a sickness not unlike alcoholism or gambling addiction. It is a sickness not to be tolerated.

It is a sickness that inspires class warfare conducted on the people through economic policy - one that insists:

  • any threat to that policy is class warfare!

It is a sickness I say - one that can be tolerated no longer! It is time for tough love!

And so I say, bring on the meanest, most unyielding love you can find!

Bring on the Mockery!

Bring on derision!!

The repelican party is DONE!!

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

IF it's such a great deal for big pharmaceuticals - then why did they leak it?

You can't tell when you are being played, can ya?

[-] -2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Why did they? You have corroborating evidence of motive?

I'm just say'n, the theme of the movement is the 99% v 1%. Occupy is not a Democrat v Republican forum, online or off.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Republicans (politicians, people, & tea party) viciously attack OWS, Democrats embrace and support OWS.

The people I meet at the rallies are always left leaning, progressives, liberals, anarchists, and yes democrats. Never, never republican/conservatives.

Just sayin' You have a different experience?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20562) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

did you even read your own leak? I mean .. . link?

[-] -2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Did you? Dems made a deal with the devil. Now if you can prove that they did it for the greater good, show me and I'll concede.

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[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

If only your actions on here matched your words on this comment.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

My actions have matched my words (mostly).

You should at least try to put aside these personal attacks. There is no value, What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to get me to not curse? Done! you did it! I haven't cursed in a week.! And I didn't curse for the 3 months before that.! Are you trying to hurt my feelings? You have! I am distraught and in pain. Please desist.

Now maybe you can try to discuss the issues that natter to you & OWS. Something beyond attacking me personally, or controlling OWS supporters voting habits. I'm sure OWS doesn't care about me or my opinions.

Peace, & Solidarity. I mean it.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

"I think the problem with" VQkag is what you say that you dont like about me is what is wrong about you, or in other words, you seem like the 'Grand High Hypocrite.'

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

That is very KarlRovian of you. "Attack you adversaries with you own weakness"

You have judged me. I simple disagree with your judgment and I question your right to question me. You don't decide who is pure, and/or acceptable for this forum. And your efforts are only targeting Dem supporters. Why is that I wonder?

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

No factsy, I do not blame Obama for everything, but I understand that, that is what you need to tell everyone to try to garner support for your partisan crusade. Why should anyone be happy when you try to falsely label them?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Maybe some day you will take some time and read some of what you have written on the forum, like for instance this post, it is but a cut and paste, if not blaming Obama what was your intent?

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

My intent frf was that no matter who has been President for the last thirty years, things have gotten progressively worse. The top 1% holding just under 10% of the total wealth in the country when REAGAN took office, and instituted trickle-down that did not trickle...to now almost 24% today....the same approx. as in 1928. I see nothing, but harm in OWS attaching itself with any party. Sure we have the same goals as most of the people in the dem party, but we also have the same goals as some of the people in the repub party. We have a better chance of reaching out to those people if we keep this movement non-partisan.and defiant...and we also have a much better chance of not being co-opted too. In fact as you know by now, I think it is imperative that we stay autonomous, and I will never back down from that...until at least we have the numbers to demand REAL change.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Come join me in a discussion sometime about how we raise taxes then, you seem to shy away from that, do you not think it needs to be done?

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[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

Thanks bw.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

Here's an Addendum for you factsy: 'Look at all the people that losing their homes, and have lost their chance for a golden retirement STARTING WITH BUSH, AND continued with Obama.

By the way factsy, where is the comment I replied to, and why isn't that up there too?

How's that, the vindictive, simple little man that you are for putting up this thread? you really must think of getting a life. it's never too late factsy

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If you had said STARTING with Nader putting his name on the ballot in FL you could of backed it up further I mean if we are to share with all who helped us on our way here, we should not forget a key player like Nader.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

both parties are screwed up, and as long as we play tha duopoly we will not go anywhere. OWS must remain outside this corrupt political system....if we want a sea change.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

the ego is the enemy, like the one in Nader that made him run, only when we address that will we move forward...

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

that's history frf. there are many reasons why we are where we are today, and it started long before Nader ran for President.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

the ego is ever present, and ready to strike again, even today we hear of cases, we forget, then we repeat...

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