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Forum Post: Occupy Wall Street Protesters Do Wrong, Read Why

Posted 7 years ago on Sept. 25, 2011, 12:12 p.m. EST by enreflechissant (7) from Marseille, PACA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Hello, I'd like to say something that will probably be beneficial to all protest movements in the world. I talk to all the movements, it is because there are a lot of similar situations across the globe. So I would like to begin by the movement "Occupy Wall Street", this movement was launched by an anti-consumerist alternative magazine. This movement, I think, is clearly anti-capitalist as it fights against banks and oligarchies of the economy. I think it's a mistake, it's not the financial masters or the economic system that must be fought in the popular movements. It's first the political leaders, because they allowed this unjust system. Indeed, if people do not revolt despite all the injustices in society, it is because they believe they are living in a democracy, they think they live in a just and necessary political system. And so, the problem is political, first, as the people follow the system in which they are told to believe is fair. In our societies the political and economic systems are closely linked thru: mass corruption and conflicts of interest .

We should not be mistaken. If finance and economics seem to dominate the world today, it is with the permission and assistance of governments over time. Without the approval of the governments' so-called "democracy", it would not happen. Thus, you can't fight solely against banks and finance: people already know banks are not on their side, people know the injustice of our economic system, yet they do not rebel. Because for them it would be inconsistent with our "democracies". Indeed, if the democratic system allows for the economic system, so what legitimacy do we have to fight against global finance, which is somehow authorized by democratic governments.

As you can see, we do not live in a democracy, the people have not the real power (to choose directly) , and this is where we must act. Movements which, moreover, appear clearly anti-capitalist, will remain doomed to marginalization in view of the meaning of "communism" to the extreme majority of people.

We must give the solutions, and not only focus on the problems. One of the solutions Spanish activists have proposed with the emerging movement of "indignados" is real democracy. In delegitimizing our political systems, and creating a real democracy, people can then eliminate capitalism or global finance if they wish.

The Spaniards made other mistakes in the indignados movement, including writing "manifestos" similar to those created by political parties. We must not make propostition on social or economic issues. To bring everyone together, we must focus on criticizing the political system (with all bad consequences that oligarchies create), and we must emergence an alternative: real democracy. Once we live in a democracy, then we can solve all problems through dialogue and transparency.



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[-] 2 points by Populist (5) 7 years ago

I think the major issue with our "democratic" system can be summarized with one simple word: Lobbyists. Lobbying is essential a legal form of bribery that has completely corrupted our politics in the U.S. Sure, there are some people lobbying for beneficial programs like clean energy, or legalizing certain plants, but they are completely outnumbered and outweighed by the obscenely wealthy and influential corporations, oil-tycoons and religious organizations that are funding politicians' campaigns so that they can ensure that big corporations and backwards traditions stay strong while social progress is kept to a minimum. If a group of protesters really wants to see a change in the 1% game, they should demand an end to all lobbying. We live in a modern country full of advanced technology, I see no reason why we cannot decide on laws and regulations in this country via a popular vote. Between public transporation, carpools, cell-phones, and the internet, everyone should be capable of adding their own vote to decide on virtually any issue this country faces. Why don't we do that? Because the people in power would no longer have much power, so they don't want that kind of progress.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 7 years ago

The government is supported by the American citizens therefore our employees and as we are the employer of government they are accountable for their actions.

This movement needs a forum for each specific issue, explain in detail the corruption and greed that results from it, and then allow the forum to provide input from the public of how they think would be a good solution to fix it.

We are at a time in history where it is critical that we change the structure of our society and bring in new problem solving ideas that have never been tried before in history.

Learn to become a unity of people that have a vision of living in a world where people have no opportunity to become corrupt or greedy for the simple goal of having a true Democracy.

We have always used this term to describe us but few have actually lived up to its meaning in their actions.

[-] 1 points by AlanO (52) 7 years ago

I agree that the objective should be a solution. NOT an ultimatum. However:

I get the sense that the Wall Street protesters (as much as I admire their conviction), may perhaps be somewhat disillusioned that change can happen overnight, or may be a naturally occurring thing. After watching this unfold since the very first day, I see a lot of common consensus (among protesters that is) that "government needs to change". And with that, I agree. Certainly on the fundamental level.

That said, I've also seen some common thought that the change that is needed, is to basically scrap the entire system and start over. But what do you start over with? No one seems willing (or perhaps capable) of answering this question. And this will become very apparent once a dialogue is started with those who currently run the current system.

They will ask, "what do you suggest we do from here?", and, "what should we replace the current system with?". And if no one has a reasonable, well thought-out, common consensus answer, that is mutually agreeable to a majority of the population to those questions, then whats happening here will be for naught. The issue is "government is corrupted and broken". And with that, I certainly would not argue. But simply pointing at the problem and saying "fix it", will not accomplish anything if everyone cannot agree on what is to be "fixed".

So the question becomes: "can the current system be fixed?". If the answer is no, then the next logical question is: "what do we replace the current system with, and how?". And when those questions arrive, if no common consensus solutions are presented, this movement will hit a brick wall. Hard.

Personally, I'm of the belief that the current system can be both fixed (for the betterment of the majority populace), as well as tailored to promote a deeper, more honest democracy. And I believe that to be the most common consensus among this nation's most critical thinkers. For this to move forward cannot only recognize the problems. It must also provide mutually agreeable solutions for how to arrive at a satisfactory result. And at the moment, I see that last element as absent.

And if the people cannot agree on a solution "with" government, then there is only one path to a final solution:

The overthrow of the government that some don't seem to want anymore. Or that they feel cannot be fixed.

And that simply won't happen. Ever. And anyone thinking it can happen, is severely disillusioned. Because ultimately, power sought will be at odds with power retention.

[-] 1 points by theOnlineGovernmentDotcom (97) 7 years ago

Totally agree. It's not the concept of democracy that's flawed, it's the implementation and the way it has evolved. I wrote quite a bit about theOnlineGovernment.org and was bashed by anarchist who just want to bad mouth everything but put forward no real solutions, who want to topple everything with no plan for what comes next aside for a bad rendition of the lord of the flies. In general I think we just need to purify the mix of democracy and socialism that we currently have, although it needs changes that can only be accomplished by massive unrest such as this. We definitely cannot accept simple lip service and business as usual.

[-] 0 points by melbren58 (1) 7 years ago

I think the occupiers are on the right track. The politicians have become nothing more than the players in the 1%'s game. If this group occupied Washington, they would not be making as clear a statement. The problem is the money and the solution is controlling how it controls the political system. Create a public funded election system and see democracy flourish.

[-] 1 points by enreflechissant (7) from Marseille, PACA 7 years ago

The problem is maybe money; but the main problem is our politic system. LOOK: in our system we can't do nothing to change things, because we have not the power directly. So if you want ou can create a public fund for the elections<<we have it in France, and it's the same situation. REAL DEMOCRACY