Forum Post: Occupy Wall St?? Occupy DC!!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 9:03 p.m. EST by leesang82
(32)
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I definately support this movement even though many are saying there isn't a definitive message that they're trying to get across except that people are frustrated with what is going on in the economy.
Maybe it’s a lack of understanding of what's going on in the political/financial system which a lot of the politicians might not understand themselves. This should definately be more of an "occupy DC" movement with all of our politicians not being able to accomplish anything because of in-fighting amongst both parties.
Bernake said it himself that spending cuts shouldn't be occuring right now with the economy in limbo but the GOP and Democrats can't come to a resolution because it's nearing an election year. It's pretty ridiculous.
It’s been shown in the past that it’s fiscal policy that works in a recession. Why we are cutting spending in a time of need, is a curiosity to me. First off, there needs to be a correction in the trade imbalance between the U.S. and other countries. We need to create a trade surplus, not a deficit. There is no benefit to printing money when we’re going to be spending that money elsewhere. Then, there needs to be the government spending policies put in place to help pull us through this time of need.
Not that I'm a democrat, but it's pretty obvious to me that the GOP is gutting the economy and the Democrat's solution to the economy by putting in spending cuts in their latest deal. This is dirty politics at its dirtiest. This is not about Democrat, Republican or Wall Street. This is about responsible leadership.
Obamas' 2012 Re-election Finance Director (John Rufus Gifford) is the son of BANK OF AMERICAS former CEO Charles K. Gifford.... one of the guys who got us in this mess!!! Keeping it all in the Family
Businesses are businesses. They are there to make money and will operate with the rules that they are given.
What got us in this mess is the irresponsibility of our government. The loosening of lending standards during the Clinton and Bush Administration which allows the less educated to get taken advantage of when they make poor choices. The government also opted for more "free trade" which allowed for the more outsourcing of american manufacturing.
My family was a big part of New Yorks Garment industry which was booming in the middle of the last century with over 1,000 employed. It was the same story back then. Not everyone was happy with their salary BUT they had JOBS. America has now become a country too proud to take on any manufacturing jobs that we have to outsource everything to countries who are willing to take those jobs at competitive prices. Watch this documentary by HBO if you are interested.
Schmatta: From Rags to riches to Rags.
The constant outsourcing drove prices down. The constant rising of the minimum wage made our factories uncompetitive with these new outsourced manufacturers. We've closed down all factories in New York in the last 15 years. There's so much outsourcing going on right now that America manufactures next to none of its own products these days. The ones that say "made in the U.S.A." probably had their parts manufactured elsewhere and assembled in the U.S. just to have the label of "USA". (Look at the car manufacturers). The trade deficit needs to be fixxed.
It's not corporate greed. It's irresponsible government.
The power of the word FREE. Free trade agreement are not free. Workers in other countries are not compensated at the same rate driving prices down to an uncompetive rate. As a country cheap goods are the crack we are addicted to. We must give American Business and Employess a footing in the global economy by requiring equal conditions and also tax credit to businesses that operate in the USA and employ Americans.
Tarriffs and taxes on imported goods might help.
Yes they would. There is a misconception of Free Markets and Freedom. They are not the same. American Interests and jobs need to be protected and if an outside country wants acess to our peoples spending dollar then they need to embrace American Idealism or be taxed accordingly!
Unchecked greed of public servants has led to the unchecked greed of banks and corporations to purchase our Government from WE THE PEOPLE. This has been a fight since day one in this country, there has ALWAYS been a fight against central banking. On Dec. 24 1913 the central bankers took control of the reigns. Our public servants have been bought and sold ever since. Passing laws and regulations that have stifled individual freedoms, competition, and incentive preventing Capitalism from existing and flourishing. What we have here is a false free market capitalist society controlled by the very wealthy to be a facist empire. Stop the banks by changing the rules in Washington.
http://sanityscribe.wordpress.com
Wall Street laughs at us behind their protective walls as does the President and Congress. Kindred spirits UNITE! We need to expand to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and take our message to President Obama! Congress also needs to hear us. They both have the power to change things. Things that they created
the whole point is that the power is in the hands of wall street because they have the covernment in their back pocket
I don't believe they are as big of an influence as some people are stating. If you are interested in the argument, you might want to read some of the other replies to other posters. But in short, businesses are going to run a business.
And political interests are in to get elected / re-elected. A big part in why we are still in a recession is in this whole politcal fighting that is going on which has prevented any progress being made.
Wall st. helped cause this recession but it didn't create it. Poor policies by government essentially created this mess. Repealing glass steagel, loosening lending practices, increasing free trade to name a few.
These epoeple/whatever running things dont seem human to me.....I mean dont they have children..who are going going to have to grow up in this world..that there ravaging and destroying for no reason..It almost seems like they have some big plan to like wipe us all out while there safe and rich..or there just real stupid...i am torn between the correct answer..or have we really been invaded...??
"The Politicians" are failing everyone because they're all too far bought and sold by the corporate and multinational interests. Occupation of Wall Street, who not only destroyed our economy, but act as a hub for all corporate interests and participates in the assault on our sovereignty, makes more sense than simply a partisan action against the government in general.
I don't believe they are as big of an influence as some people are stating. If you are interested in the argument, you might want to read some of the other replies to other posters. But in short, businesses are going to run a business. And political interests are in to get elected / re-elected. A big part in why we are still in a recession is in this whole politcal fighting that is going on which has prevented any progress being made. Wall st. helped cause this recession but it didn't create it. Poor policies by government essentially created this mess. Repealing glass steagel, loosening lending practices, increasing free trade to name a few.
And the poor policies of government were cooked up by corporate think tanks, promoted by free market friendly political consultants and well funded ideologue campaigns, presented to politicians by lobbyists who worked for the same companies and industries who can make or break their candidacies with their money. That power, that level of influence needs to end and that is what this movement is about.
The corruption in DC is a result of the corruption by Wall Street. Demanding corporate politicians change things doesn't work. Thats why we need election reform.
Well, that's a nice theory which may hold some truth to it.
I don't fully agree but that is well articulated and may help the movement if there was someone to speak out about the current demands in a less vague and more articulate way.
Might I suggest the following? At the risk of being self promoting. If you agree with it, please champion it as your own.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-central-message-we-need/
The people need a way to relate this message to today's occurrences and situations. I'll re-post tommorow.
You have my thanks.
I can agree with your point. The bottom line is politicians are fighting for resources. Whether or not campaign reform is implimented, they will always be fighting for resources to be heard. Equal campaign financing may bring about better politicians, and this might be a long term problem we need to fix.
I am proposing the solution for the now and today for the economy which is what has brought about this movement. I believe both points need to be made as it is easier to digest as both points build upon each other.
Ah, that is what this is trying to bring to the table. Does money control politics or does politics control money? The politicians are not LISTENING. The real power resides in large corporations making large donations and having large amounts of lobbyists promoting their OWN interests (create their own rules) at not those of the people who they are supposed to represent. So you treat the disease and not the symptoms. You are looking at this on the surface as anti-business, but it is not.
They are two-fold, but in the end, I believe the politicians are going to do what is in THEIR best interest. And politicians like to be elected or re-elected to office.
I never stated anything near hinting at anti-business. I am pro-business. But I believe that the choices that the politicians have made have ruined our business and economic environment.
The parties' inability to come to terms on a solution is reckless.
I understood from your post that you are pro-business. I also wanted to point out that many of the complaints from OccupyWallStreet are not inherently anti-business. They are fighting for the same things you are. But, they have started to realize the problem is with the politicians but asking a very* important question, who is influencing them? the public? or very, very wealthy individuals with agendas that are not meshing well with the general public? The system is not working because people are taking advantage** of it. Supporting OccupyWallStreet is not anti-business. In fact, is quite the opposite if you really understand it. Now, in a perfect system no one would ever take advantage. But, we don't have a perfect system. Of course people will take advantage and most people can brush that off as selfish/ignorance. But, now the manipulations have gone TOO far and hence you have people who are naturally upset about it. It's like this: they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar WAY too many times and enough is enough.
And I don't believe their inability to agree comes from business influence but rather their desires to be elected in to office. The ship is sinking and the GOP is sending Obama off on that ship with it.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-many-of-you-would-be-willing-and-dedicated-eno/#comment-57341
Wall Street laughs at us behind their protective walls as does the President and Congress. Kindred spirits UNITE! We need to expand to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and take our message to President Obama! Congress also needs to hear us. They both have the power to change things. Things that they created
Can we occupy someplace nice like South Beach?
Haha. That would be nice, although I don't know if that would have the same impact.
The problem is that wall street simply demands profit from corporations. Shareholders only seek capital as return. The system needs to be changed. A PUBLIC corporation should not be beholden to only shareholders but also to STAKEHOLDERS the employees and consumers after all it is a PUBLIC corporation. A Voice and Vote should be required on all PUBLIC corporations to the stakeholders as well as the shareholders.
Can you clarify on this?
By Public, I believe it is referring as in access to the public to purchase stock in that company. Not that EVERYONE has a right to a say in what that company does.
And I do believe that shareholders are entitled to a return on capital as they are taking a risk in investing in a company. A public that doesn't have "skin in the game" by having an investment in that particular company, shouldn't be able to dictate what that company does or doesn't do.
THEY DO!
Investing money in a company is not the only kind of investment. People invest their livelihood in order to accomplish the goals set out by a public company. Consumers use the products and services and have invested by buying the product or service.
So there are Three Types of Investment in a Corporation and all should have a say
Sure you are entitles to a ROI but so do the workers and consumers without them there would be no product or service and no Return on Investment
Well, I believe am a believer in capitalism. You can vote with your dollars by spending it elsewhere.
This is Capitalism since when is Capitalism anti Democratic.
Look at China. They are a Capital Market without Democratic Leadership.
Well than you should support the involvement of all stakeholders in a public corporation. Our Economy and Our Freedoms are more important than wealth at the expense of others. There is plenty of profit to be made by bringing a product or service to the public and embracing American Idealism without selling out to the highest dollar.
like I said, I don't believe consumers have a stake in a company. You pay for a good which you receive for the benefits of that good. You are making an investment in that particular product, not the company itself.
Stockholders on the other hand are purchasing stock as an investment in a company. In doing so, they have a right to vote on the board of directors and have a say as to what the company does.
Yes but you are only focused on the upfront money. Consumers definately make an investment in a brand and are encouraged to do so and without their money you'd have nothing. Workers actively trade their labor for money and have an interest in being able to continue to do so. Your position is that money is the only controlling interest. You are wrong, everyone involved has some stake in the creation of a product or service and as such should get some say. We are not talking about a corner shop. We are talking about giant corporations that employ masses. There is a big difference.
Your argument is predicated on a public company being open to the entire public. It is not.
Being public entitles that particular company access to the capital of the public through the capital markets. If an individual makes an investment in the company, they have voting rights. If you would like to vote about a company, you should buy their shares.
That is where the system fails Greed begets Greed. The only controlling interest is profit not the betterment of the individual or society. You have voting rights in this society and it doesn't necessarily have to cost you a dime. You are a stakeholder in your community and you have a say. Corporations are only beholden to the shareholder. We live in a society that has given personal rights to corporations and as persons they are now subject to rule by society and democracy.
You are arguing for a right you already have. As a consumer, you have a right to walk away from the product. That is your say. And by walking away, corporate executives will want to retain you by changing their products or policies.
Not exactly there is a need for a product in the marketplace and with all of the patents in place there is little choice to fill that need. What is the choice to do without. I don't think so. You want to fill a public need why shouldn't the public have some say. More importantley why shouldn't the workers. Profit should be a motive but not the only one.
Well then, as a believe in capitalism, you should be more entrepreneurial and create a company with the standards which you speak about. If the public demands such a company, they will vote with their dollars and flock to your business.
I am. I believe in the American People and I believe in the Republic. This country was founded on giving a voice to the majority while protecting the rights of the minority. Somehow we have shifted to the Golden Rule. It is time that the American People have a legitimate say in how the economy is run. There is plenty of profit to be made while maintaing loyalty to our fellow citizens.