Forum Post: Occupy Fathers, Guilt Fathers into Joining Occupy Movement, They Either Sanctioned Corruption, They were Complicit, Patriarchy
Posted 11 years ago on Dec. 31, 2012, 11:58 p.m. EST by Middleaged
(5140)
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Yeah, it might be I have some personal issues here. After all my years ... after seeing the system... I'm actually mad at my own father at this point.
I felt we should have been mad at our fathers after 2008 Finanical Crisis. And it hasn't gone away. Not that I got hurt. I got through the crisis very well...
But it was lies on top of lies and ... fraud in Ratings Agencies ... fraud in accounting firms... fraud in wall street bansk ... fraud in congress ... conflict of interest that has been institutionalized... it just goes on and on...
Congress no longer wants to bring witnesses to testify if they are large campaign contributors. - As per William K. Black speaking of the Savings and Loan Scandal Lessons Learned by Congress.
Why couldn't my father or yours stop this?
Campaign Idea: Guilt the Fathers to get them into OWS.
A) This is about holding people responsible who are at the top. There is very little resposiblity in Congress, in presidential staffs, in presidential policies, in declarations of war, in financial policies, in Economic Polices (Neoliberal).
B) Where in the Consitution Does it Say we can Fund a Global Military and Conduct whimsical wars against people who don't have a standing army, don't have a government, and have no weapons capable of reaching US Soil.
C) Where does it say we should transfer billions of Tax Credits or Subsidies or Government Contracts to Corporations - just because they twisted the law to allow Lobbying, Soft Money, PACs, and Campaign Contributions.
D) Does anyone who is not on the take - really think Lobbying is Good??? @#%@
I just reread an old murder investigation (1857) and the trials had nothing to do with the actual murders but rather "social treason". One cannot claim that there is a documented history of society controlled by the elite and then pick and choose which generation is then guilty. Why give in to a generational war that is clearly a tactic for diversion? No, I am not saying that you made it up or that you are instigating such as a diversion. I have watched this for the past decade.
I am not going to guilt my father or any other fathers. I am not 14. I am not a teenager. My father supports OWS. In fact, my father has been jumping up and down about this shit for years. As did my grandfathers. At different intervals all of them participated in one way or another in fighting for people. I come from a long line of vets. It was these men that made sure that I understood what expendable meant.
My grandfathers were born in the 1920s. One of them was a teenage hobo and road the trains during the Depression. In the past I have posted newspaper clippings from the 1930s that demonstrated the banking issues were exactly the same.
Fathers as idiots may have held some comedic value in small doses many, many years ago. Lawd knows we have some fathers that are idiots. The consistent barrage of this image and buying into this will only undermine your own power as men with children in the future.
Possibly... that is a valid point of view. But how many people you see taking responsiblity for this Nations Murder in undeclared wars overseas and huge corporate welfare. Remember it is only the adults that can change the US Government...
How did the Vietnam War end... many more draftees, many more families involved, and many people protesting around the country. That is why I think it is safe to say we need a Groundswell of support ... before any real change will happen.
Take a look the system is rigged. They set the debate topics, Campaigns avoid topics important to everyone, seeming to control media.... The don't ever put out a plan. In fact it doesn't look like COngress studies or writes their own law. Lobbyist seem to run washington. Yes, we could be here all day talking about the influence and advantage of corporations. The system is rigged.
Did you vote for war. No, we dont get to vote. We got a pack of lies about Iraq. And all the politicans were in on it or should have known better. I will excuse the Freshmen....
Well, every one will ask If this is the time for Change. OWS is about making this a time for change. I'm not alone on that....
Veterans know about compartmentalized Information. And most Vets will not spill the beans about what they have seen. The have signed and been breifed not to talk about it.
Veterans know a lot of stuff individually. But it is amazing how many have kept their mouth shut since 2001... We knew Bush was going to go into Iraq before 9-11... we knew it when Bush was elected and war material started moving to certain places. Where are the Whistle Blowers? Where are the Honerable people that want to fix things and lay responsibility for War where it should go. We know you can't fight Guerrilla with an army 6000 miles from your home country. It is preposterous. Riddiculus.
You want leadership. Get more people upset and wondering why they don't fight harder to fix the Corruption. We all know there was a Coup and Neoliberals were the ones behind it... supported by big business.
You want change, you need to create a Groundswell. that is leadership. There won't be an FDR to fix us this time. The systems are too broad, deep and wide. You saw how Jamie Dimon was given soft balls in Congress. You saw that Obama cut DOJ FBI Financial Crimes Investigators ... to prevent fraud charges against the Banks. That is a coup. The system is rigged.
You lie. Your entire tirade is a fucking lie. You simply wish to use that which is useful for your current propaganda. If you can't hear it--you are willingly, consciously, deliberately not listening. You only give a fuck because currently it is beneficial.
Cognitive distortion #1, Generalization, you just covered all that I wrote with one generalization without a single detail. #2, I'm sort of a passive guy, you are seeing some leadership here. But basically I don't think we will see change, I won't fight by myself, I don't want to lead, and I dont' think you are a leader. I won't even defend myself. I have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe you are not an insider. You seem to read very well, you seem very well informed.
Hey, I'm a human. Maybe I'm just telling the truth and trying to stir the pot ... because I go up and down in my emotions or passions or whatever.
Keep the language clean. I respect you, but don't respect the foul language.
But how many people you see taking responsiblity for this Nations Murder in undeclared wars overseas and huge corporate welfare. Remember it is only the adults that can change the US Government...
Try again.
How did the Vietnam War end... many more draftees, many more families involved, and many people protesting around the country. That is why I think it is safe to say we need a Groundswell of support ... before any real change will happen.
Who are you askin'? If we are playing by teams-the US lost. Hence, the earlier ......aggression against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.............
Veterans know about compartmentalized Information. And most Vets will not spill the beans about what they have seen. The have signed and been breifed not to talk about it
They talk about it all the time. Where the fuck have you been?
Veterans know a lot of stuff individually. But it is amazing how many have kept their mouth shut since 2001... We knew Bush was going to go into Iraq before 9-11... we knew it when Bush was elected and war material started moving to certain places. Where are the Whistle Blowers? Where are the Honerable people that want to fix things and lay responsibility for War where it should go. We know you can't fight Guerrilla with an army 6000 miles from your home country. It is preposterous. Riddiculus.
http://www.ivaw.org/
Asshole.
So now you pretend to be taking the high road after telling me to F* off, calling me a liar, and saying I was nothing but an opportunitst.
But your techique known to all ... is a Power Play. You are fighting the same battle with everyone. Probably it is your brother or sistem from you childhood. If you were in domestic violence or a bad marriage ... your councelor would have explained what you are doing by draging out posts ... baiting other posters ... untill you drop the information you are holding back on them ... it is a power play.
You are addicted to power games. You pull people into your drama. You don't discuss. You judge, you convict, you punish, you set them up, you drag out the confrontation, and increase the stimulus or drama, and you hit them with you web search info that they missed. Wow. Heavy Drama, GirlFriday...
You are officially, a basket case. Also I think you represent Status Quo. I think you defend the old thoughts, because you really aren't brave enough to look at new ideas. That kind of makes you a conservative. Nothing against being a conservative, but I know science is nothing without being open, history is nothing without being open.
If you want to rage against something here are a couple of Links:
http://www.challengemagazine.com/extra/054_069.pdf
http://www.lifeaftercapitalism.info/downloads/read/History/Howard-Zinn/Howard_Zinn-A%20Peoples-History-Of-The-United%20States.pdf
http://www.sciencefriday.com/segment/01/04/2013/-full-planet-empty-plates.html
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2006/12/358945.pdf
http://www.american.edu/cas/faculty/kuznick.cfm
http://www.american.edu/cas/news/kuznick-tells-untold-history-of-united-states.cfm
I've never seen you actually post an article, is that because you don't know anything about leadership... or is it just beacuse it is easy to criticize and play your power game?
So how does the Status Quo look today. I know you can't say 10 things you would like to change. You don't have 10 solutions. Maybe you don't have any skin in the game... is that it, Girlfriday?
There is nothing to pretend. You lied and then tried to bullshit your way through it. I don't give a fuck what you think. You are a fucking nitwit.
Playing games again. Try to be specific if you can set aside your tendency to pull us both into the gutter.
Cognitive Error #3, Fortune Teller Error. You expect everyone to read your mind. I guess that builds the drama a bit.
Look join the Human Race. I have had problems getting my points across all my life. I've gotten a little better at it. Obviously, I'm not perfect because I have punched your buttons. I actually want to be fair and ... I want to listen to gentle corrections from people like you.
Do you think Communication is easy, natural, intutitive, and takes no work at all Well, ... maybe we are the same here. Maybe we share some of the same communications paradigms.
But there is at least one big difference between you and me. Not sure I'm going to nail it here ... I like to turn things around and look at them. Maybe it is creative. You don't like that term, fine. But maybe I'm the personality that digs into minutia.
People don't have to be all the same. If we were all the same, then you could read all of us like a book ... in that case ... you would know if someone was acting out, what their motive was, and what they were feeling. And perhaps if you could read everyone, you could become a great writer of movies, plays, and novels.
I wish I could read everyone. Maybe I used to think I could read people okay. Now, I'd have to think about it.
But don't show any humility, ...don't show any weakness, ... unless you are ready to. I think I am ready to show weakness and humility. I think I am ready to be vulnerable. But in my way ... I've always been tough. In my way I have never needed anyone.
You sound like you are ready to Learn more about Philosphy. I'm sorting looking at that myself. We get so much Law from Europe, but Europe is also where we get our Politics, Philosphy. We get a lot of Communication skills from Europe as well through these kinds of Classics. Of course, we simplify everything in the USA. We just call each other names in politics instead of quoting principals, or government systems, or government program history, or even plain old history.
I don't mean to be a nemisis. You are intelligent. You can turn up the game here a notch.
well yes, our elders and at this point my peers (i am 34) carry serious blame that they refuse to accept or even recognize at the sorry state of the world and our current trajectory. shit most people don't have a clue as to the history of world events or the current events unfolding now. but i am sure they have an opinion on the fiscal cliff.
My brother works for one of those banks and has for years. I can barely speak to him. I resent the hell out his lack of concern for us and his loyalty to cronies. He's on the inside, he should have done something and he didn't. He was just all about himself and his portfolio. He has two daughters and he STILL turns a blind eye.
He is in denial 1) of his daughters knowing 2) that he doesn't think this is a moral issue that effects and damages his family and their individual fates.
He knows darn well it's a moral issue but he just compartmentalizes all that so he can go to work. As much as I hate what he does, I know that he's not the only one who does this. His daughters are too young and insulated from the truth. They live in father Peter's Never Neverland.
Maybe there could be limits to capitalism... You brother is everyman. If Education, Hospitalisation, Medical Insurance, medication costs, ... had some limits to expenses, control over costs ... most of us wouldn't go bancrupt when a major medical event happens.
I don't see the population turning from capitalism... that doesn't seem realistic. But social education at the College level, and social medicine might be ways to limit profit areas for executives.
And might mean socized housing or office space for public lawyers and some public doctors.
No one should go bankrupt over a medical bill but even worse is that the majority ( 75 percent) of people filing due to medical expense are covered by insurance!.
easy to prevent that - 1 page tax code and take away all deductions. plus a flat tax. No ifs ands or buts
Yeah, "guilt " people into the movement. That'll work real well. Quit whining about others and actually do something.
No one ever accused you being creative or being a creative activist huh?
Don't worry, most of us aren't creative activists ... many US Voters have been respulsed by Washington DC Congressmen. As I'm sure you are repulsed by Congressmen.
But what to do. Is the answer going to come from playing computer games or watching TV?
Let me check your profile for links to your solutions and your well considered proposals for the USA. What? No proposals? Wow, I didn't even have to do a search or click on your profile to know.
You are a status quo kind of guy.
A) How do you feel about Foreign Orginaizations or Foreign Citizens Lobbying your Congressman? Don't like it?
B) How do you feel that your Mortgage Rate is higher than it should be since the LIBOR scandal hiked it up a bit (no refunds).
C) Remember the Keating Five? Well don't worry we avoided that in the 2008 Financial Scandal... the trick is to never call the Major Campaign contributors to testify in congress. The other piece is we can call some bankers to testify like Morgan Stanley, but we will just thank them for coming, ask them how the weather is, ask them about the family (oh, you would question them a little harder, sorry)
d) Algo Trading, it cuts into your pension or retirement, but ... well maybe just a little. you don't mind do you?
e) Insider Trading in Congress... you don't have anything against Nancy Pelosy do you? It is all above the law. Yeah, you might be the loser in a transaction... but it is legal.
f) Congress has a separate set of laws for their travel, expenses, lunches, dinners, convention fees ... well they have it so rough. You don't mind that they have an elite class of rules for finanical disclosure, conflict of interest, and accepting gifts from the rest of the government employees ... eventhough the rules for regular employees were specifically written to keep bribes and corruption at bay????
I guess you don't see any reason for a Groundswell of Support for Reforms of any kind. I guess You like the Status Quo. I guess you will support 5 deployments for 1 year for a member of your family to a war zone in an undeclared war ... a war not against an army ... a war not against a government ... but a war against thugs or warlords WHO can never fire a missile against the USA or her shores.
Eh, I don't understand you point of view. You Said "We should sit on our asses"
Get some therapy.
Stop living off the government contracts and get a real job. How about you start a manufacturing business and get the government straight.
I would but my daddy won't let me. It's all his fault.
Offensive, useless, meaningless comment.
I support this & any non violent effort to grow the movement. Guilt can be a powerful motivator.
I wouldn't exclude mothers, nor should we limit our tactics to guilt.
good luck in all your good efforts. & Happy New Year
Thanks. Don't know if any one will read this. But it is time to get the people at the top of the Patriarchy or Matriarchy to take responsibility ... to spread education ... to Question Authority ... to call out those the Promoted the War in Iraq ... to Call out those that are funding our Military over $600 Billion a year ...which is almost triple the defense Budget in 1998.
The people at the top are getting off Scot Free and still acting Like big Righteous Patriarchs.
1) Who wants to Spank Greenspan?
2) Mary Schipiro?
3) Robert Rubin?
4) Larry Summers?
5) Dick Cheney?
6) Don Rumsfeld?
7) Hank Paulson?
8) Timothy Geithner?
9) Ben Bernanke?
Sure we can spank 'em all!
I also like to see us denounce the fear mongering 'war on terror' propaganda that has been used since the 9/11 attacks were exploited to get support from the American people for these wars/rights violations.
Whenever it happens it must be ridiculed if we are going to put this militaristic war on terror behind us.
End the propaganda, declare the war on terror over, end the drone strikes, restore our rights, cut the defense budget by 50%.
Yeah, get rid of DHS also ... moth ball their facilities, buildings and bunkers for other uses as our government gets bigger or for emergency shelters & offices.
It's a big part of the Security industrial complex, and a dishonest way (by repubs) to remove worker rights, in the name of national security.
So glad I don't have to hear the propaganda of the color coded threat levels.
Whatta joke.
Dismantling that obscene boondogle would be huge.
I posted a story about a PBS show, a Swiss Corporation refuses to talk with journalists about it's company because it is "National Security". They have been caught commiting fraud in Mining in Africa in a very poor country. They fix the books to make production lower, to lower taxes for one thing. Might be lower royalties as well.
National Security means we have conflict of interest in revealing government and military information.
Easily abused, frequently misused. Nothing good will come of this.