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Forum Post: Oakland Ebonics controversy

Posted 2 years ago on July 18, 2012, 3:27 p.m. EST by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Oakland Ebonics Controversy was about giving African American children a better chance to learn and advance in school but it also pointed to the reality that African Americans are a people or nation. As long as Ebonics is not respected in schools as a legitimate language system black children and by extension the African American people -- will suffer. The African American community is a very important and crucial part of the 99% and this movement should be looking for more ways to ally with it and its needs and aspirations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Ebonics_controversy From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia On December 18, 1996, the Oakland, California school board passed a controversial resolution recognizing the legitimacy of "Ebonics"—what mainstream linguists more often term African American Vernacular English—as a language. The resolution set off a maelstrom of media criticism and ignited a hotly discussed national debate.

For students whose primary dialect was "Ebonics", the Oakland resolution mandated some instruction in that dialect, both for "maintaining the legitimacy and richness of such language... and to facilitate their acquisition and mastery of English language skills." This also included the proposed increase of salaries of those proficient in both "Ebonics" and Standard English to the level of those teaching LEP (limited English proficiency) students and the use of public funding to help teachers learn AAVE themselves.[1] Contents [hide]

1 Popular response 2 Amended resolution 3 Linguists' response 4 Notes 5 References 6 External links [edit]Popular response

Popular interpretations of the controversial issues in the resolution include: the idea that "Ebonics" (African American Vernacular English) is a separate language; that Ebonics is an African language; that African Americans are biologically predisposed toward a particular language through heredity; that speakers of Ebonics should qualify for federally-funded programs traditionally restricted to bilingual populations; and that students would be taught Ebonics.[2] The Rev. Jesse Jackson condemned the resolution, saying "I understand the attempt to reach out to these children, but this is an unacceptable surrender, borderlining on disgrace." His comments were seconded by former Secretary of Education William Bennett, former New York governor Mario Cuomo, and Senator Joe Lieberman.[3] Jackson would later reverse his position, attributing his initial opposition to a misunderstanding of the school district's proposal. He said, "They're not trying to teach Black English as a standard language. They're looking for tools to teach children standard English so they might be competitive."[4] [edit]Amended resolution

The wording of the original resolution caused a great deal of misunderstanding, which fueled the controversy. On January 15, Oakland's school board passed an amended resolution. The original resolution used the phrase "genetically based" which was popularly misunderstood to mean that African Americans have a biological predisposition to a particular language, while in fact it was referring to genetic in the linguistic sense. This phrase was removed in the amended resolution and replaced with wording that states African American language systems "have origins in West and Niger-Congo languages and are not merely dialects of English."[5] [edit]Linguists' response

Several groups of linguists and associated organizations issued statements in support of recognizing the legitimacy of African American Vernacular English as a language system. "The systematic and expressive nature of the grammar and pronunciation patterns of the African American vernacular has been established by numerous scientific studies over the past thirty years. Characterizations of Ebonics as 'slang,' 'mutant,' 'lazy,' 'defective,' 'ungrammatical,' or 'broken English' are incorrect and demeaning" "There is evidence from Sweden, the U.S., and other countries that speakers of other varieties can be aided in their learning of the standard variety by pedagogical approaches which recognize the legitimacy of the other varieties of a language. From this perspective, the Oakland School Board's decision to recognize the vernacular of African American students in teaching them Standard English is linguistically and pedagogically sound"

—the Linguistic Society of America

"Research and experience have shown that children learn best if teachers respect the home language and use it as a bridge in teaching the language of the school and wider society."

—from Teachers of English to Speakers of Other Languages (TESOL)

Walt Wolfram, a linguist at North Carolina State University, wrote that this controversy exposed:

the intensity of people's beliefs and opinions about language and language diversity,

the persistent and widespread level of public misinformation about the issues of language variation and education

the need for informed knowledge about language diversity and its role in education and in public life.[6]

[edit]Notes

54 Comments

54 Comments


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[-] 1 points by cytrader (1) 2 years ago

I'll make it plain . . . f..k English! It's not our tongue and we never asked for it. It is the language of the oppressor and if it irks "Standard English" speakers that we choose to make whatever we want out of this wicked language that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If it were that important your slave owning forefathers should’ve taught us how to speak it properly. Not only did they not teach us their language, they refused to allow us to read, write or even speak our own native languages. Now their children want to complain about how we've corrupted a corrupt language forced on us by a corrupt people! You should lay the blame where it truly lies.

How is speaking Ebonics hurting Black people? Is it keeping us from getting jobs in this society? As I recall we were dragged here against our will to work America’s “great jobs" and we still haven't gotten paid. So as far as we are concerned, America’s jobs are worthless! Is it keeping us from integrating with other people? If so that's great! What person in his right mind would join hands with someone who has terrorized him for 400 years? When Moses went to Pharaoh (after 400 years), did he ask him to allow the Hebrews to integrate into the society that enslaved them or did he request separation? Face it – we are a separate people and now we have our own separate language. You may not like it and that’s all well and good but I’ve learned to embrace it because it is ours!

An oppressed people, children of slaves, took a dried up prune of a language called English, spiced it up and turned it into THE global, multi-billion dollar music industry of choice. Where the money from all of this creative genius goes is a topic for another discussion but the point here is this. There is not a music form found in America that does not trace its roots to so-called African-Americans. Songs, of course, are nothing more than words spoken or sung on top of music and the language of choice for these songs is Ebonics! Authentic blues, authentic Gospel, authentic R&B and authentic Hip Hop use Ebonics. That’s how we know how to distinguish our wheat from yawl’s chaff.

Let’s be honest. People the world over want to walk and talk like us. Yeah even the children of our oppressors want to sound like us. Thankfully their clumsy attempts fail for the for the most part and that's a beautiful thing. Otherwise I have no doubt that they would misappropriate that part of our culture for themselves too just like they do everything else! Since Standard English is only good for Corporate America and for people trying to fit into mainstream America. These areas of society have always been closed off to the vast majority of our people, so why should we be concerned with it?

I have one last point to make. I hear the argument frequently that people who speak Ebonics are lazy and/or less intelligent. Now I’m a professional and I know a lot of other Black professionals. Nearly all of them speak Ebonics and Standard English. How can a people who generally speak two languages (Ebonics and Standard English) be any less intelligent than a people who generally speak only one? In other words, “one of us is faking the funk ya’ heard?”

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

But ebonics disappeared under great ridicule didn't it?

All American citizens have to learn proper english to succeed. Thats the end of it. Whats the point of your post? That you want to bring it back?

Or that you think it was a mistake.?

Please explain

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Ebonics did not vanish. the struggle of the educators in Oakland was laughed and shouted off the stage. Why? Because the fact that African Americans are a people or nation is not acceptable for one thing. For another the futures of the children raised in that language is not considered important nor even worthy of a respectful thought. Ebonics is spoken today. Who told you it isn't? Children grow up in Ebonics speaking homes today. Who told you they aren't? And if it is a legitimate language as say linguists why must it be obliterated? Ebonics speaking children need to be taught standard English in our schools with respect of their own culture which includes language. What the Oakland educators were proposing was pretty simple and obvious: Approach the Ebonics speaking children the same as you approach the Spanish and Vietnamese speaking children. Understand that they are learning English not as their first language! Allow them to succeed.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

No one thinks of the language of the street as Ebonics except your linguists and I doubt even that.

In any event the Oakland proposal never went anywhere. Never will. Slang is not a language. It's not even a dialect. It's slang.

Everyone learns proper english if they want to succeed.

So am I to understand you support teaching children using ebonics?

This post is a useless distraction. Best thing we can do for all minorities is end the draconian drug laws that were put in place after voting rights act to further oppress minorities. In addition fix the public education in poor areas.

Ebonics indeed. LMFAO

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

"In any event the Oakland proposal never went anywhere. Never will." Much to the detriment of Black children. White supremacy won that battle.

Ebonics From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For African American U.S. English that is distinct from Standard American English, see African American Vernacular English. Ebonics (a blend of the words ebony and phonics) is a term that was originally intended to refer to the language of all people descended from enslaved Black Africans, particularly in West Africa, the Caribbean, and North America. Since the 1996 controversy over its use by the Oakland School Board, the term Ebonics has primarily been used to refer to African American Vernacular English (AAVE), a dialect distinctively different from Standard American English. Contents [hide] 1 Original usage 2 Common usage and controversy 3 See also 4 Notes 5 References 6 External links [edit]Original usage

The word Ebonics was originally coined in 1973 by African American social psychologist Robert Williams[1] in a discussion with linguist Ernie Smith (as well as other language scholars and researchers) that took place in a conference on "Cognitive and Language Development of the Black Child", held in St. Louis, Missouri.[2][3] His intention was to give a name to the language of African Americans that acknowledged the linguistic consequence of the slave trade and avoided the negative connotations of other terms like "Nonstandard Negro English":[4] We need to define what we speak. We need to give a clear definition to our language...We know that ebony means black and that phonics refers to speech sounds or the science of sounds. Thus, we are really talking about the science of black speech sounds or language.[5] In 1975, the term appeared in Ebonics: The True Language of Black Folks, a book edited and cowritten by Williams: A two-year-old term created by a group of black scholars, Ebonics may be defined as "the linguistic and paralinguistic features which on a concentric continuum represent the communicative competence of the West African, Caribbean, and United States slave descendant of African origin. It includes the various idioms, patois, argots, idiolects, and social dialects of black people" especially those who have adapted to colonial circumstances. Ebonics derives its form from ebony (black) and phonics (sound, the study of sound) and refers to the study of the language of black people in all its cultural uniqueness.[6] Other writers have since emphasized how the term represents a view of the language of Black people as African rather than European.[7] The term was not obviously popular even among those who agreed with the reason for coining it. Even within Williams's book, the term Black English is far more commonly used than the term Ebonics.[8] John Baugh has stated[9] that the term Ebonics is used in four ways by its Afrocentric proponents. It may: 1. be "an international construct, including the linguistic consequences of the African slave trade";[10] 2. refer to the languages of the African diaspora as a whole;[11] or it may refer to what is normally regarded as a variety of English: either 3. it "is the equivalent of black English and is considered to be a dialect of English" (and thus merely an alternative term for AAVE), or 4. it "is the antonym of black English and is considered to be a language other than English" (and thus a rejection of the notion of "African American Vernacular English" but nevertheless a term for what others term AAVE, viewed as an independent language and not a mere ethnolect).[12] [edit]Common usage and controversy

Further information: African American Vernacular English and Oakland Ebonics controversy Ebonics remained a little-known term until 1996. It does not appear in the 1989 second edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, nor was it adopted by linguists.[13] The term became widely known in the U.S. due to a controversy over a decision by the Oakland School Board to denote and recognize the primary language (or sociolect or ethnolect) of African American children attending school, and to thereby facilitate the teaching of standard English.[14][15] Thereafter, the term Ebonics became popularized, though as little more than a synonym for African American Vernacular English, perhaps differing in the emphasis on its claimed African roots and independence from English. The term is linked with the nationally discussed controversy over the decision by the Oakland School Board, which adopted a resolution to teach children "standard American English" through a specific program of respect for students' home language and tutoring in the "code switching" required to use both standard English and Ebonics.[16] While the term is avoided by most linguists,[17] it is used elsewhere (such as on Internet message boards), often for ridiculing AAVE, particularly when this is inaccurately parodied as differing more from Standard American English than it really does.[18] Black American linguist John McWhorter argues that the use of the term does more to hinder black academic achievement than to help it, in that considering AAVE to be a completely different language from English serves only to widen the perceived divide between whites and blacks in America.[19][full citation needed]

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

It's just slang. Sorry. fix public education, end draconian oppressive drug laws.

It's the only way.

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I don't argue about fixing education - but we would surely not agree with how to do that, certainly regarding black kids from the projects and ghettos. I don't argue about the drug war either. It has resulted in mass incarceration of black young people and mass death in Mexico. US and European banks make scads of money laundering drug earnings. The people who do that should face justice Chinese style.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FExecution_van&ei=nysJUILJBqH00gHF0uDDAw&usg=AFQjCNFln3mAWgPxZUUvoMQGYYAdhGFzxg&sig2=X44U1Z3edJlRjZ9enBXvaQ

Too bad so many otherwise decent people like yourself just have this blind spot of arrogance when it comes to matters of import for African Americans.

Try reading the following paragraph slowly. Quiz next week, dude. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Ebonics_controversy

"Linguists' response

Several groups of linguists and associated organizations issued statements in support of recognizing the legitimacy of African American Vernacular English as a language system. "The systematic and expressive nature of the grammar and pronunciation patterns of the African American vernacular has been established by numerous scientific studies over the past thirty years. Characterizations of Ebonics as 'slang,' 'mutant,' 'lazy,' 'defective,' 'ungrammatical,' or 'broken English' are incorrect and demeaning"

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

please.

There are bigger issues to address than this silliness. I ain't arrogant. I grew up in the projects speaking the slang you refer to. We were all able to speak the language of business as well as street slang.

Focus your energy on ending the drug laws, and horrible eduction in poor areas. That is worthwhile. This is old, off the radar, discredited, and inaccurate. Linguists notwithstanding.

Save your test. I've been tested on the streets of Brooklyn.

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I grew up in Queensbridge myself. At this point I think we have to agree to not agree.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

fiftyfourforty, Thanks for educating us a little, and I apologize for the morons who responded to your post

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

It shows how deep the hostility to African Americans is. Also it shows that this forum is awash in paid and amateur provocateurs who want to discredit OWS and among many goals, to keep African Americans away from it.

[-] 1 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

I've met so many African Americans that are extremely articulate; to lower the standard of language perfection, which serves all so well as persuasive ability, is just insane.

[-] -1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Linguists say that Ebonics is a legitimate language system and is not therefore simply illiterate English. Children raised in Ebonic speaking environments need extra help with standard English just as do Mexican and Vietnamese kids who get that help unlike the Ebonic speakers.

get it?

[-] 2 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

No I don't get it. The English language itself is the "Ebonics" of the Germanic languages in that we have minimized through standardization all of the connector words and nouns. There are no special schools to reeducate the German immigrant or the Ukrainian or Romanian immigrant. The Mexicans do not need ESL, either do the Vietnamese, or the Blacks. People are tired of paying for your "special needs" in school taxes at a cost to education as a whole.

[-] 0 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

sorry you do not get the point. there is a blindness you and other commenters have.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

That blindness is the result of both intellect and a desire for fairness. It's not right to continually tap tax payers for special interests; educational quality should not suffer to immigration even if those immigrants are black Americans.

The level of assimilation is but the measure of indifference; it's not the result of any biological or physiological difference. Two problems - indifference and subculture isolation.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You call the slave trade immigration???

educational quality should not suffer to immigration even if those immigrants are black Americans.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

Ebonics? Youre certifiably wack.

[-] -2 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You're surely a hater of black people. Go fuck yourself.

[-] 0 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

So we need to spend extra money because a set of people who have lived here for 300 years didnt get the messsge that English is the USAs mother tongue?

And you wonder why blacks cant gain economic traction ANYWHERE on the Earth.

Lets be blunt. With the cultural roadblocks blacks put on themselves, they will always lose out to more competitive organized cultures.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Please, please...name one..."competitive organized cultures" !!!.

[-] -1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Go fuck yourself. "Lets be blunt."

("Cult of Personality" prominently includes several audio samples of speeches from 20th-century political leaders. The song begins with an edited quote from the beginning of "Message to the Grass Roots", a speech by Malcolm X. As it appears in the song, the quote is:

". . . And during the few moments that we have left, . . . We want to talk right down to earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand."

The unabridged beginning of the speech is:

"...And during the few moments that we have left, we want to have just an off-the-cuff chat between you and me -- us. We want to talk right down to earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand."[4])

[-] 2 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

And that langage is English. However go ahead and promote ebonics and watch blacks economically dissappear from the Earth.

[-] -1 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

Yep, it the white man who harms blacks men. Like Dennis Rodman's dad, who fathered 29 children by 16 women.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/dennis-rodman-meets-father-philander-rodman-42-years-185338430--nba.html

Then Dennis himself forgot about child support for his kids. No, I think black men have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that their cultural values run to breeding and not fathering.

Al lthese issues vanish if black children were raised by strong 2 parents but of course we know black menhate fatherhood and the 24 hour responsibilty it entails, so we have scores of black children being shunted aside by their fathers and them these kids end up duplicating the very dysfunction that ruined their lives.

[-] 0 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

But if day can talk wif jew in enlish, day wone be able to compete wif you in da real worl.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Hey, what about the Italian, Polish or any other language other then English - they all shold be they all should be taught along with Ebonics. .

[-] 0 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

In NYC they get English as a Second Language instruction given by teachers trained and qualified in that field and paid extra for the extra knowledge and education they've attained. What the Oakland educators were saying and that linguists agreed with was that Ebonics is a legitimate language system and that kids raised speaking it need special help to succeed in school. Probably this sort of instruction is not available in all places where you find kids from these other non- English speaking backgrounds and that ought to be addressed. African Americans, however have given sweat and blood to this country over centuries. We ought to give their kids a shot at succeeding in school.

[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

not when native americans have for decades been denied that same privilege native american kids either learn proper english or fail.(and that is actually a language, not some recently concocted slang) . same for any others . how is that fair to anybody? are we suppose to start teaching mexican kids in spanish? how can you require any 'group' to speak the language of the land if you dont require it of every kid in school?

[-] 0 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

What passes for education on most reservations is a travesty just like teaching any child in a language he cannot grasp is a cruel and hostile thing to do.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Not everyone speaks, thinks, acts or lives that way. Just the same as those in the Appalachian mountains, farms in the south and poorest of non-melanin races in this country....they are even harder to understand and illiterate as well. Look at some of the posts on this forum for example! So...with any group of people....education is the key.. Only thing different about the non-melanin race of ignorance, they are always taught to believe they are Superior to anyone of melanin heritage.... Now...try to figure out that bull shyt!

[-] 0 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Linguists say that Ebonics is a legitimate language system and is not therefore simply illiterate English. Children raised in Ebonic speaking environments need extra help with standard English just as do Mexican and Vietnamese kids who get that help unlike the Ebonic speakers.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

I did not mention anything about Ebonics in a negative way...my reply was to Jack Pullman who wants to use Bill Cosby as leader of people of color, when he is not...he is a comedian, a person who gets paid to talk/entertain the public, no more, no less. "“They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English,” he exclaimed. “I can’t even talk the way these people talk: ‘Why you ain’t,’ ‘Where you is’ . . . And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. . . . Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!” Bill Cosby -

You can have white folks legitimatize "Ebonics" all you want, just like they..the rulers legitimized slavery and names such as Negro, Blacks, coloreds, etc. Just because they denied rights to our people over the years, does not make it politically correct to once again separate us with this made up name for some of our way of talking to each other or a language or ideas that are not teaching our people their rightful heritage and sovereignty on these shores....or how to prepare our children for the future of this downward spiraling culture and society....these are more important aspects to our existence here, believe it or not! These are all smoke screens my man....to keep us from looking at the whole picture......We do have our own identity and we do know the language.....not their definitions or ideologies of us. Look around.....are they evolving any better? So, do we keep seeking their approval.....Why? Who are they?

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

In my opinion Garvey was a great man as was Malcolm X and Martin Luther King also (and all were spellbinding orators). There is reason to believe that like the others Garvey was taken early through conspiracy. The whole world including "white" people who might not realize it suffered losses with the loss of each of them.

(edit)

I am not going to dispute what the educators in Oakland were saying and trying to win for the African american children of Oakland and I defer to the considered opinions of linguists and educators.

[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

“They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English,” he exclaimed. “I can’t even talk the way these people talk: ‘Why you ain’t,’ ‘Where you is’ . . . And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. . . . Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!”

Bill Cosby

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Really? Is Bill Cosby a paid entertainer, or an educator? Does he let everyone know what his true heritage is, or is he here just for the money?

"A generation of ambitious Negro men and women, out from the best colleges, universities and institutions, capable of filling the highest and best positions in the nation, in industry, commerce, society and politics! Can you keep them back? If you do so they will agitate and throw your constitution in your faces. Can you stand before civilization and deny the truth of your constitution? What are you going to do then? You who are just will open the door of opportunity and say to all and sundry, "Enter in." But, ladies and gentlemen, what about the mob, that starving crowd of your own race? Will they stand by, suffer and starve, and allow an opposite, competitive race to prosper in the midst of their distress? If you can conjure these things up in your mind, then you have the vision of the race problem of the future in America." Marcus Garvey, 1920....http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?documentprint=742 Now how did he know this? This is what happens when a race of people cannot comprehend why they are in the condition they are in....regardless of their Asiatic (Negros, Blacks, etc.) or European (White) status across the globe!

Hold onto your butts people....it is about to get uglier unless you take the time to be able to understand the truth about yourselves!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

But ebonics disappeared under great ridicule didn't it?

All American citizens have to learn proper english to succeed. Thats the end of it. Whats the point of your post? That you want to bring it back?

Or that you think it was a mistake.?

Please explain

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Why need I explain? I don't give a damn about Ebonics one way or another. I have a degree and I know how to talk with individuals from all walks of life... So...frankly who gives a damn, I didn't create this post now did I ? Has racism "disappeared under great ridicule"? Hmmmm?

My concern is the nationality, education and freedom of my people.....period!

The point of my post is the fact that this nation has a very deep rooted problem, which individuals refuse to face, acknowledge, or correct

Now if you can explain what that is then you will understand my post(s)..period!..

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

How would I explain what "very deep rooted problem this nation has."

If you don't wanna. s'ok with me.

Peace

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Truly, this is useless....

Peace

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I'd expect stuff like this from Cosby. He never stepped forward during the years when he could have done something for the civil rights struggle, but he reaped the fruits of it. Before the sixties a Black man couldn't get a decent role on TV, not even in a commercial. Count on him to stab his community in the back.

[-] 2 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

"You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!”

Do you disagree? Would you like your heart surgeon to come to you and say, "I gonna be cutting yo chest with this here bone saw...."
You'd run out the door.

And do you think those "Linguists" would have made it far in school without the ability to speak English?

But hey, keep them uneducated, if you want to. More high paying jobs for me.

[-] 0 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The entire point of the Oakland fight was to properly educate African American children in their native tongue and to teach them standard American English so that they could succeed. Hard to see how that point escaped you.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Wasn't that the founding fathers plan in the first damn place? It worked...for a while..but I do believe Marcus Garvey showed the results of this and said it best in 1920......

VI. The physicians of our race are denied the right to attend their patients while in the public hospitals of the cities and states where they reside in certain parts of the United States. Our children are forced to attend inferior separate schools for shorter terms than white children, and the public school funds are unequally divided between the white and colored schools.

VII. We are discriminated against and denied an equal chance to earn wages for the support of our families, and in many instances are refused admission into labor unions, and nearly everywhere are paid smaller wages than white men. Sworn before me this 15th day of August, 1920. [Legal Seal] JOHN G. BAYNE. Notary Public, New York County. New York County Clerk's No. 378; New York County Register's No. 12102. Commission expires March 30, 1922.---Excerpt from Amy Jacques-Garvey, ed. Philosophy & Opinions of Marcus Garvey. New York: Athenaeum, 1969.

Obviously your objectives for failure of the nations of melanin peoples has not totally worked (educators are still here) so what makes you think your educational system is what we need again? I take pride in personally educating the Asiatic peoples, showing them the truth about themselves not the lies that the racist part of this nation continues to perpetrate against them!. And, we have the legal right to do so with Love, and Peace within this great nation of ours!

Also, if you have the balls to read any writings of Marcus Garvey you will see that as a GREAT orator, he never spoke any damned EBONICS!!

[-] 0 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

This isnt civil rights.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Oh, I beg to differ ye of little insight!

OWS is about civil rights. The states interfering into voting privileges is about civil rights. Foreclosures on homes and property is about civil rights. Corporations controlling jobs, food productivity, and the rights of the people is all about CIVIL RIGHTS... regardless of race, creed or color!

"Civil and political rights are a class of rights that protect individuals' freedom from unwarranted infringement by governments and private organizations,"

Definition of Civil Rights..American Heritage Dictionary: civil rights

pl.n.

The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and by subsequent acts of Congress, including civil liberties, due process, equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination.

ADJECTIVE: or civ·il-rights (svl-rts) KEY

  1. Of or relating to such rights or privileges: civil rights legislation.
  2. Of or relating to a political movement, especially during the 1950s and 1960s, devoted to securing equal opportunity and treatment for members of minority groups.

Now, who is truly the minority here,on these shores, in these modern days and times, melanin or non-melanin peoples? Look it up!!

Remember....Google and Libraries are available to you son!

http://www.newgeography.com/content/00175-minority-america

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Black, and hispanic people still make up less than 30% of the population. And more importantly still have their civil rights violeted continually. They also must contend with the continued oppression and discrimination in school, housing, and employment.

Right?

Is that what you were getting at. Did I get that wrong?

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Huh?

No.....read, read, and re-read....There are doctors, lawyers, teachers, Presidents who are considered "minorities" and this racism and oppressive culture continues to thrive and these are so-called educated individuals. So what does Ebonics have to do with the education of a people? Perhaps it is a cultural language that most "whites" don't need to understand....ever think about that? For example "The people of New Orleans have their own language. Its tone, lilt, and slang are indigenous to this city and reflect its ethnic history and tradition. New Orleans is part of the deep south, but you won't find much of a stereotypical southern drawl; in fact, there are several distinctive dialects. One of the most surprising is a Brooklynese style heard in the 9th Ward, Irish Channel, and Chalmette sections of New Orleans. Little or no French is spoken by the majority of folks in New Orleans, but common parlance isn't without French influence. Aside from having everyday words and expressions that aren't used elsewhere in the States, New Orleanians throughout the city give meaning to and pronounce certain words their own way.

And?

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

If Ebonics is a real language system as said the people charged with educating in Oakland California, and also groups of organized linguists and it professions and business is conducted in what could be called standard English it stands to reason that Ebonics be recognized as a language as legitimate as Spanish or Vietnamese and that children raised in it be taught with respect both in their native language and also be prepared to fend for themselves in the business and professional worlds by teachers who speak both languages and who respect the children and their families. These children to this day are told in thousands of ways that they speak "stupidly" or "ignorantly" or "like illiterates" when in fact they speak a language that is somewhat related to English but is not English. For this shame on Cosby stabbing the children who need his voice in the back.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

On that note, "ain't, ain't in the dictionary".....as told to my parents generation when they were growing up by educators, but It is there now and considered a part of "Black English"

My question is...when did language become a color? Does that mean we are part African and part European? See, this is all convoluted when trying to distinguish one race from another...that too is a crock! They know what we are and what they are!

Truth in Education is the key for any nation of people!

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Ebonics From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For African American U.S. English that is distinct from Standard American English, see African American Vernacular English. Ebonics (a blend of the words ebony and phonics) is a term that was originally intended to refer to the language of all people descended from enslaved Black Africans, particularly in West Africa, the Caribbean, and North America. Since the 1996 controversy over its use by the Oakland School Board, the term Ebonics has primarily been used to refer to African American Vernacular English (AAVE), a dialect distinctively different from Standard American English. Contents [hide] 1 Original usage 2 Common usage and controversy 3 See also 4 Notes 5 References 6 External links [edit]Original usage

The word Ebonics was originally coined in 1973 by African American social psychologist Robert Williams[1] in a discussion with linguist Ernie Smith (as well as other language scholars and researchers) that took place in a conference on "Cognitive and Language Development of the Black Child", held in St. Louis, Missouri.[2][3] His intention was to give a name to the language of African Americans that acknowledged the linguistic consequence of the slave trade and avoided the negative connotations of other terms like "Nonstandard Negro English":[4] We need to define what we speak. We need to give a clear definition to our language...We know that ebony means black and that phonics refers to speech sounds or the science of sounds. Thus, we are really talking about the science of black speech sounds or language.[5] In 1975, the term appeared in Ebonics: The True Language of Black Folks, a book edited and cowritten by Williams: A two-year-old term created by a group of black scholars, Ebonics may be defined as "the linguistic and paralinguistic features which on a concentric continuum represent the communicative competence of the West African, Caribbean, and United States slave descendant of African origin. It includes the various idioms, patois, argots, idiolects, and social dialects of black people" especially those who have adapted to colonial circumstances. Ebonics derives its form from ebony (black) and phonics (sound, the study of sound) and refers to the study of the language of black people in all its cultural uniqueness.[6] Other writers have since emphasized how the term represents a view of the language of Black people as African rather than European.[7] The term was not obviously popular even among those who agreed with the reason for coining it. Even within Williams's book, the term Black English is far more commonly used than the term Ebonics.[8] John Baugh has stated[9] that the term Ebonics is used in four ways by its Afrocentric proponents. It may: 1. be "an international construct, including the linguistic consequences of the African slave trade";[10] 2. refer to the languages of the African diaspora as a whole;[11] or it may refer to what is normally regarded as a variety of English: either 3. it "is the equivalent of black English and is considered to be a dialect of English" (and thus merely an alternative term for AAVE), or 4. it "is the antonym of black English and is considered to be a language other than English" (and thus a rejection of the notion of "African American Vernacular English" but nevertheless a term for what others term AAVE, viewed as an independent language and not a mere ethnolect).[12] [edit]Common usage and controversy

Further information: African American Vernacular English and Oakland Ebonics controversy Ebonics remained a little-known term until 1996. It does not appear in the 1989 second edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, nor was it adopted by linguists.[13] The term became widely known in the U.S. due to a controversy over a decision by the Oakland School Board to denote and recognize the primary language (or sociolect or ethnolect) of African American children attending school, and to thereby facilitate the teaching of standard English.[14][15] Thereafter, the term Ebonics became popularized, though as little more than a synonym for African American Vernacular English, perhaps differing in the emphasis on its claimed African roots and independence from English. The term is linked with the nationally discussed controversy over the decision by the Oakland School Board, which adopted a resolution to teach children "standard American English" through a specific program of respect for students' home language and tutoring in the "code switching" required to use both standard English and Ebonics.[16] While the term is avoided by most linguists,[17] it is used elsewhere (such as on Internet message boards), often for ridiculing AAVE, particularly when this is inaccurately parodied as differing more from Standard American English than it really does.[18] Black American linguist John McWhorter argues that the use of the term does more to hinder black academic achievement than to help it, in that considering AAVE to be a completely different language from English serves only to widen the perceived divide between whites and blacks in America.[19][full citation needed]

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

What our children need is their true history, what language they spoke then, and now and why. Who their ancient forefathers were and the fact that all our descendants on these shores were not brought over on slave ships but put into slavery upon the arrival of the "pale skin newcomers". I for one (as well as my family who know our history) are extremely suspect of people of color that are considered experts on us...when in reality they fail to even recognize their own heritage and the nationality of their own people. The European knows this, but there is another agenda within the scholars of our people due to the fact that they are on the pedestal, amalgamating tip, not the saving humanity tip of the melanin race. I am not against the pale skin nations of Europe, I just don't feel that part of society needs 100% of my attention nor do I need their acceptance. Can we truly say they don't feel the same about us? This is the problem here in America, the need to be recognized by them and amalgamate with them. Yet we consistently maintain a revulsion for our own history, religion and culture and create made up information instead of revealing the truth. Marcus Garvey always walked the walk and talked the talk. W.B. Dubois felt "the intellectual elite of the black community, should inspire and lead their people while seeking aid and stimulation from white people". But, even though he thought that it was good to seek this aid from white people he also made "a call for the black community to maintain a separate racial identity" (White 54). He was a passionate proponent of black pride and thought that black Americans held gifts to humanity, in the form of art, music, humor, and folk tales that had yet to be appreciated.

http://www.oocities.org/writingryan/dubois.html

Our people are ashamed to love and be themselves....We have nothing we need to prove. What people called Black nationalism was in reality a call to return to that great nation from which we originated, our ancient and oldest of history as descendants of Africa and born in America spanning over 10,000 years ago....a story to be told over the centuries, through many narratives and documentations, yet denied by whom?

How many European Immigrants, Japanese, Chinese, etc. do you see denouncing their own culture....even if they were put into slavery here and in other lands, they remained true to their faith, their cultures and their people..... They know their names and their birthrights and are not readily defined by what they think "white" people should call them even when they gain an education in this country

So, who really sold Asiatics out on these shores and still continue to do so, not only with their racist views, bigotry but self-hatred perpetrated upon others--no matter what race, creed, or heritage?

Secret is.....Confusion and doubt exist only in our own minds!

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I do not agree with your take on history but i really do not want to drag out an argument about it here. I'll be brief. I agree that African Americans constitute a captive nation in North America. While I do not know just how the situation is going to be resolved and I do not claim to have the road forward for African Americans I am pretty sure that one way or the other the solution is going to be right here in North America. What I find myself doing here on this forum is 1- Arguing against run of the mill white liberal arrogance/ ignorance and 2- Turning in the hardest core right wing white racist comments to the forum moderators who really honestly do not want this forum to be turned into a white nationalist sewer.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

It does not bother me that individuals do not agree with my take on history. I know my family history, and that cannot be disputed by anyone, state, government or nation. Yet, if you want to do further research for yourself you can begin with Josiah Priest, the godfather of the dreadful "monkey theory" and "alleged" origin of our race---which began in Europe and spread here to America in the 1800's during the time of slavery. This is their justification so please understand all scholars receive a question-mark in my mind until I research and find the truth for myself! Here is a pale skin European book, readily accepted in most halls and schools of learning here in America, but never given to anyone of color in our public school system....one must be able to read it without passion, prejudice or hatred against the pale skin nations of Europe due to the fact that they were the newcomers at that time and needed to dominate us here,. The level of humanity and civilization as taught to their forefathers by our ancient forefathers had to be put on the back burner in order to subdue us, destroy us, and conquer our minds, bodies and souls.. http://books.google.com/books?id=ilcSAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false.

Now, the above referenced book was written and published in 1850, approximateky 16 years after his first book in 1832 http://olivercowdery.com/texts/prst1833.htm Which let the European understand that we existed on these shores before his arrival....therefore, all of slavery was a planned scheme, orchestrated and manipulated by those in authority and power on these shores from the onset...so I have no reason to hate them, because they did what they had to do to survive by trying to annihilate the greatest people on the face of the Earth. They needed us at their mercy...Did we not do the same to them in our Ancient days of Glory? Yet, our karma has been paid and it is time for us to wake up!! Here are a few pages that may be interesting to you.... 340 Traits of an ancient colony of Negroes from Africa, in South Americas, "4. Tribes are found among all the ancient nations, Arabs, Berbers, (Moors- emphasis are added due to the change of our race to Negros, Blacks, Coloreds, etc. in the 1700's) Celts,"Negroes", &c., who are not Jews. The most civilized nations had castes, instead of tribes, in America as well as Egypt and India; the Mexicans, the Mayans, Muhizcas, the Peruvians, &c., had no tribes. The animal badges of tribes, are found among Negroes and Tartars, as well as our Indians." It is no marvel, then, that these Jewish customs are found "among nearly all the ancient nations of Asia, Africa, Europe and Polynesia, nay, even among the wild negroes to this day," since they were in use at the very outset of the spread of the nations from Ararat, and are, therefore, of Hebrew primitive origin, but not heathen primitive origin, as asserted by Rafinesque. We are not tenacious, however, whether the Ten Tribes were lost or not, nor do we disagree to the opinion that they are found in almost all parts of the old world, having mingled with the various nations of Asia; but if so, we inquire, why may they not, therefore, be found in America? Could they not as easily have found their way hither as the other nations of the east? Most assuredly.

Now remember, in the Bible, we are the ancient Moabites that are constantly being referred to....."Dark and Comely". The Christian Bible Dictionary also speaks of the Dark skinned Ethiopians who inhabited the land of Canaan....hence we are the ancient Canaanites before the spread of Christianity throughout Africa and the world...There are no more secrets about our origin, only that which we tend to deny and ignore or try, and I do mean try to refute.. .

So, you have your reasons for being on this forum and I have mine. It is not to hate the European but to teach people how to learn to love themselves! We are all on this sinking ship and no one is immune no matter what race, creed, color or nationality they are!

Do we not understand that time has moved forward and that we are now permanently at the mercy of the Universe for the travesties that have been placed upon humanity by us? ALL OF US!!! So....now I am finished with this subject and message! I must move on....