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Forum Post: Now that we have the government that we deserve,

Posted 1 year ago on Nov. 5, 2012, 11:14 a.m. EST by brightonsage (4494)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

How do we deserve the government that we want?

The candidates said a million words or more without committing to what the country really needs.

This web site has had a lot of discussion among a relatively few people that exposed a lot of things that are wrong with the country and a few things that are right. Neither candidate took any position on most of those and even if they would have ….?

One thing we all know, regardless of the outcome, it could have been worse. Some will say we would be better off if it was going to be worse. Better, because the country would have to come to grips with the real problems and not settle for a few lame promises that won't be kept because the country is as divided and clueless as the people on this site. (Except for me, of course). Others will say, we are better off because the outcome bought us a little time to buckle down and educate and inform the brain-dead ideologues that are driving the country to ruin.

You know me well enough now to know that I am in the latter group with no apologies. I have seen bad outcomes of accelerating crises before you have a plan to fix things. And I haven't seen any comprehensive plans that would actually fix things. And comprehensive is the operative word.

We all tend to take a pet peeve and prescribe a solution that might address it but with little thought to the unintended consequences. Nobody will take the time (or has the time) to try to formulate the comprehensive plan, prioritize the tasks to get there, identify the resources, layout an achievable schedule, recruit the people who can do the tasks and mobilize the money it would take to implement the program. One thing we have learned in this election cycle is the identities of the enemies of the changes that need to be made. And we have seen the amount of money they are willing to “invest” in moving from the status quo to an even worse place to feed their greed. We also know who is willing to sell out to them and how disgustingly cheaply they can be bought. People who realistically will see their incomes continue to erode will support the bad guys for the promise of re subjugation of women or keeping the pay even more unequal or similarly exploiting other minorities. It reduces to, 'if you will be even meaner to others than you are to me, I will support you.' Does this remind you of the serfs in medieval times?

So, the dust is about to settle and we have no plan, no large, committed grass roots organization. No committed resources and no momentum. Sounds like a bunch whining anarchists in the wilderness. Does it all end with a whimper? Or just silence? Where are the membership rolls of the movement? Where are the leaders? A few sycophant students of never was social critics does not a movement make.

I would humbly suggest that the problems are real and the solutions also must be. There were some built in flaws with the OWS approach that would have to be changed. What do you want from me?

“The fault, dear Brutus is not in our stars, but in our selves that we are underlinings." - Shakespeare

47 Comments

47 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

The Plan reveals itself once the 99% put themselves at the centre of the picture! Stop blaming the victims - sheep don't vote for slaughter and our 'shepherds' are actually wolves! Only education can change this but it is not an education that our schools and colleges or media offer.

OWS is a very important start.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

It was important. Plans must be conceived and written and scrubbed and supported and implemented. Sheep follow goats, some call them Judas goats.

The folks in control reveal themselves. Arrogance isn't shy. The fights for primacy among constituencies will begin immediately. They have little relevance to what needs to be done.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Short and Too the Point: No One wants Change ...at least No One in Office has the Character and Force to talk about it ... or start a National Debate.

Paul Green, Political Scientist, Chicago, in the news today... says all the money spend in the Campaigns this year was a Waste... since no one Talked about Real Issues. He mentioned Pensions, Illinois Pensions are in bad shape like the reast of the Nation... but No one Started a Debate about what to do about Pensions. Under funded Retirement Funds and Pensions is over $4 Trillion.

http://business.time.com/2012/09/26/how-bad-is-americas-pension-funding-problem/

http://www.turningpointusa.net/public-pensions-generational-theft-2/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_crisis

http://www.pewstates.org/uploadedFiles/PCS_Assets/2012/Pew_Pensions_Update.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/business/pension-plans-increasingly-underfunded-at-largest-companies.html

Couldn't find the exact Link, but think the deficit in retirement plans is more than Pension Plans... Like about $4 Trillion Total.

We got Status Quo Year After year There is no one Cleaning Up Washington DC.

Who has Talked about the ISSUES

1) Financial Crisis
2) Financial Schemes in our Everyday Life
3) Pensions and retirement Crisis Looming
4) Cost of Education, Health Care, Drugs, College Loans, Loss of Savings Interest Rate on Individual Savings Accounts, 5) Loss of Investment in Safe Small Business Loans for Real Start Ups and the real Small Businesses with low Capital and Few employees and no Shell Companies, loss of Investment in our future Jobs.
6) No Domstic Policy to protect Jobs in Manufacturing, In recylcing waste, altenraitve energy, energy solutions, hazzardous waste, food technology, mass transportation systems, efficeient cities, science, 7) War. This is a Big Issue.
8) Defense Spending that has Trippled since 1998.
9) Tax System that is way over-grown, shot full of loop holes, and current trends to give away tax rebates to any large corporation.
10) Coporate Welfare, Susidies in taxes, loopholes, free federal funds, public private partnerships, bail outs. If it isn't simple, you know the banker or the coporation is getting the best part of the Deal.
11) Complete and Utter Support for Corporations whether big defense contracts or small defense contracts, War, Mercenaries, Intelligence operations, AT&T Contracts for evesdropping/spying on americans, Carried Interest Tax rate, Deffered Wages into Trust Accounts, Hedge Funds writing the laws of the Land, Shadow banking, Paid Off ratings Agencies, paid off Independent Accounting Firms, Paid off Legislation, Paid Off Congressmen/women, Paid Off Treasury Secretary, Paid Off Federal Reserve Boards and Memebers, Paid Off FDIC Chairmen and Memebers, Paid Off OCC Members and Chairmen.......
12) Cut Budgets for SEC & FBI to investigate Fraud in Banking.
13) 10 Years to Sue a Large Corporation and No Verdict (millions of Dollars paid)
14) Flagrant Fraudulent Documents Submitted to Court for Foreclosures.
15) Wall Street banks executives working in our executive office and as heads of our regulatory Agencies ...And they give money to the COngress members that are supposed to Investigate them.
16) A history of Keating Five, bank scandal, that taught congress never to Investigate their biggest Contributors!!!???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five
http://www.classwarfareexists.com/wsj-nearly-70-of-u-s-corporations-pay-no-taxes/#ixzz2BJbFwygl (Brightonsage link)

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

This is so good you should post it,

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well it is a lot like things I have posted before, but maybe it is more densely written or concise.... You like the short bullets. I guess I can understand that. Maybe it is better for this forum than longer explainations, quicker to read.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Yes, most don't have an attention span of more than 15 seconds.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Ok It's up. Added a link to Subprime mortage scandal impact. The loss of Real Estate Investments was not just to home owners and private investors, it was also part of retirement Plans and Pensions.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Good job. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5784) 1 year ago

FreeDA http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/

2 years more years to work towards a significant change and 4 more years to work towards a big change.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

I think a Constitutional amendment or maybe two will be required to really make the changes necessary to get back on track and in the process to get people to be really engaged in governing themselves.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5784) 1 year ago

With affidavits to commit candidates to the stated interests of the people, any number of Constitutional amendments could be passed http://occupywallst.org/forum/freeda-template/ . The key is the use of the affidavits and the key to the use of affidavits is voter solidarity across party lines in only voting for candidates willing to sign the affidavits. Political party members are unlikely to do it but the swing voters and current non-voters who greatly out number the partisan voters can make it happen. Their solidarity could automatically get money out of politics at the grassroots level.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

On the positive side, I am encouraged to the see the sincere effort. On the negative side, I will have to read this carefully to see if I can support it, The first thing that got my attention was the tax policy. I am not sure I can support it.

[-] 1 points by ArnolfoAsako (25) from Salem, NJ 1 year ago

Someone help me out here, but I am finding this forum very political and a bit prejudicial..

Is it me, or is there a one sided view on here?

The same posters seem to want to be the voices of authority and I don't see why that exists on here. Why are they rude and hateful to others opinions?

I use to visit Topix forum last year and it seems that the only difference between that forum and this one is the names of the posters.

I'm just saying.

It would help, seeing as how we are bogged down by storms here, to get more than just a narrow and limited view of the world.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, there are some people here with very strong views. I try not to get nasty, but have to admit ...even though I try to avoid getting into fights... and have posted against it here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/political-impotence-interpersonal-skills-judgement/

I have Flamed a couple of people.

Have a few Solutions Posted I want to orgianize in my Profile. And have long post about Corruption. You can click and see.

BrightonSage has just got me thinking... maybe I should look again at my Constitutional Amendments for something along a lines he just responded to.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

I welcome your view, civil, it will no doubt be. Individual act and speak and they alone are responsible. It's not my URL or disk space. I can disagree with you without calling you names. Their are opinions of many stripes here and some will certainly try to insult you. Whether you are up for that is up to you,

[-] 1 points by ArnolfoAsako (25) from Salem, NJ 1 year ago

If I can handle the remnants of Sandy, surely what insults may result from others disagreeing with me can't hurt.

Maturity comes in all stages. And sometimes, it doesn't come at all to quite a few.

Thanks for the positive and interesting feed back.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Well I used to live in New Jersey but I have never been more relieved to not be there now. Still know a lot there who are hurting that I haven't heard from. I'm sure they have their hands full. Hang in there.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Do what I've always done, look apathy in the face and say, can't we just get along?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Let me know how that works out for ya'.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I just did. I'm still here.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

So you are and we are glad.

[-] 0 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

I believe you're right - it's your house and you now have the government you deserve.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Sadly, it is our house and it is what we all deserve. The idea is that, if you want something better, it has to be built. If you wait for somebody else to do it, it will be what they want it to be, again. And, if you try to sabotage it (perhaps again), you will get to live in the ashes.

[-] 0 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

Good luck!

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

If you want to opt out. Buy insurance. Luck isn't likely to be a big factor. People who work hard and play by the rules should be the luckiest.

[-] 0 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

I'm already buying insurance. The problem is that a 1300 dollar a month policy only covers 80% of major medical; the coordination of benefits under a second family policy will cost another 1300 a month, and even then, the insurers have so reduced benefits that most doctors opt out - they are non participating. So even with insurance, one hospital stay runs into the tens of thousands. While simultaneously Obama lowered limits on medical savings accounts and raised the cut off that would allow write-offs. He is also now taxing us on medical compensation packages provided by employers. There's no doubt about it - this was a coordinated effort to give working class people the shaft while allowing unionized "friends" to opt out.

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[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You gotta mouse in your pocket?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Let me check. Nope, it's all my fault.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Are you absolutely sure about that?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Some say it is San Andraes fault. But seriously, now is the time to do some serious work.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Then you will need to wait until after the election to see who is left.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

And who remains. But of course the election is over, for all practical purposes, unless you are an election chasing attorney. We know all we need to know. Somebody won and we still haven't fixed anything. We may have put a band aid on or ripped off a scab, but nothing was fixed.

There is no real cause for celebration by the winners and certainly not the losers. In any case we know that the guys who kicked in the money are swooping in to collect their payoffs. They all know and we all know that the people didn't win. Everybody was manipulated, to the extent that money can manipulate people, which is considerable. There have been studies that show that the political brainwashing that occurs from the bombardment of stuff that you disagree with is considerable. It moves us away from the positions that we held before all of this started. Where we were when the economy tanked isn't where we are today. We need to get the election poison out of our blood and crank up the anger and frustration that we felt seeing the raw, cynical exploitation of the 99%, that we saw in 2009 and get motivated to push for the real reforms that are needed to get the money out of all aspects of governance. Get the pandering of exploitation of one group by another group out, finally achieving equality of opportunity for every citizen. And a few little things like that.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Then why does this sound like a rallying call for the next election?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Wouldn't you like one that was a referendum on changes to the system to create a democracy, or a representative democracy, (history doesn't convince me that it was ever there to go back to) that isn't controlled by an oligarchy?

There was no such choice in this one, was there?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

So, that is exaclty what you are up to.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

No secrets. What are you up to?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Not buying into the "we are guilty" sha-na-na bullshit.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

We are responsible isn't the same as we are guilty. Some of us may be guilty, but I don't think you can shed your slice of the responsibility. If you keep doing what you did, you will get what you got. If you are happy with that, I guess you got yours.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Whats the difference?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

None. It's the art of bullshit.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Did you have a super savior in mind or is this where you start trying to develop OWS as a "political tool"?

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

You aren't whining are you? I don't think OWS will ever be a political tool. Someone, who has their finger on the plug, has a different view and will exercise their prerogative if the trend starts to go the "wrong" way. There is a big difference between the 99% and OWS, isn't there? Super savers are cheap fares aren't they?

I repeat, "No secrets. What are you up to?" So, what I say is bullshit and what you say is..... not forthcoming, as they say. You don't have to trust me, I didn't ask you to, and you needn't be concerned because you don't have anything I want.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

No, brights. I just don't trust you. So, you should skip the shit and shoot straight. Because, I have heard all the bullshit this election cycle that I need to hear.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Thanks, I responded elsewhere on this post.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Thanx