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Forum Post: not new - but nicely done

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 17, 2012, 7:09 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement


how are half of America being deluded by this koch stooge ?


three questions -
beyond the name, what percent of Americans know who the koch brothers are ?
beyond the name, what percent of Americans know who sheldon adelson is ?
beyond the name, what percent of Americans know who grover norquist is ?

57 Comments

57 Comments


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[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Hey. Bernie is the probably the best Senator we got. Thanx for weighing in Hc has been harassing me all evening. As always he is mainly just anti dem, and of insult after insult unless I agree ewith him.

But he made the mistake of praising Bernie to which I told hc That Bernie caucus' and votes w/ dems 90%. Hc is currently overloading like an old startrek computer overloard.

Ha ha . does not compute! Must re calculate.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

hc s_c_s ! Bernie is fantastic
his constitutional amendment is close to perfect -
but it prioritized unions -
that will kill any republiclan support


imagine a capitol hill populated by Sanders & Warren !

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ours problems would be over!

Elect progressives. vote out anti union politicians

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[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I agree about hc. now he claims he's gonna protest the rnc convention, but he hasn't mentioned it once and I've been bumping that rnc tampa protest post up for days and I think he put 1 comment on the post. I don't know who he thinks he is kidding

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[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ha!

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its not like either of you are going to be there, so why would I waste my time on you?

We've been planning for this for a while. I dont have to convince you of anything. Because you already have your opinion made up of someone whom youve never met before. Very typical of coopters.

I've even sent you pms saying that if you are in tampa for it to hit me up.

Believe what you want. I'll be there making noise, you'll be claiming im a "repelican" or whatever childish names you guys come up with.

Way to keep grinding away at that pro status quo you want so much. Dont be a hater.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"co-opter"? - not tryin to co opt anything. "opinion made up"? on what? "childish"? "hater"? Please refrain from the name calling.

What is your problem.? I guess we hit a nerve of truth huh?

What if I said that I agree you will be at the RNC convention?

Is that a compromise you can live with?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Actually I vouched for Bernie and said just imagine if there were more indies like him in congress, maybe 20 of em.

I think that would be a good thing. You dont?

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Oh you didn't say Sanders caucus & voting with dems 90% were only because he was stuck?

Hey don't worry about it. No matter. We agree Bernie is the man anyway right?. I just think we can trust his judgement of the dems and you think he is stuck.

No big deal.

What about the fact that Sanders never votes with republicans. Is that meaningful?

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

He votes with them in bipartisan stuff, but he makes stands when needed. I thought his actions against the NDAA this past year were impressive.

We need more of him. And ofcourse he is stuck. Theres two coporate controlled companies that control the entire congress.

You dont think he wishes there were more indies in there? More people who werent tied to corrupted parties, free to say and vote as they please?

Ofcourse he does. We all do. To say otherwise is just trying to get your angle as usual.

Good night.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Bernie votes 90% with dems!! Never with republicans!! Is that meaningful to you?

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Meaningful how?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

If he trusts, agrees, votes with, and caucus' with dems, and does not do so with repubs doesn't that mean to you that the dems are closer to Sanders progressive ideals?

Doesn't it mean to you that republicans are no where near those same progressive ideals?

Trust Bernie! He knows better!

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I agree with your statement. Its obvious. Anyone who thinks the Republicans are more progressive than the Dems is obviously insane.

We need a blend of liberating people and fiscal responsibilty in DC. Entire tax and trade policies need to be wiped out, and redone. Simplified.

End the wars. End the Fed. Both of which are embraced by libertarians, Dems and Reps, and Greens alike. I know Rocky wants to end the wars and the fed as well.

Let me know when that caucus arrives, because it will have such overwhelming support that things will start to happpen.

And Bernie will be as happy as a pig in shit.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"anyone who thinks the Republicans are more progressive than the Dems is onviously insane" Whaaaaat? "more progressive"? Are republicans progressive at all?

That statement in itself is misleading. Republicans are NOT progressive. Anyone who thinks they are is insane. Do you?

Bernie knows better. I'll trust his Judgement!

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Well some of their stuff they have done is pretty typical progressive ideas- MEdicare part D (free pills for senoirs), No Child Left Behind.

Bush's Ownership Society was deemed as progressive policy by many conservatives (little did either know that it was just a launch point for cheap money).

They suggested in the 90's about a healthcare mandate. Obviously the R voters werent thrilled about that one. I cant blame them.

Sometimes the stuff that is progressive isnt neccesarily good, because it puts too much power in the hands of a few.

Decentralized power isnt always a bad thing.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Decentralized power is not a definng element of progressiveness.

  • Med part D does not adhere to conservative principle. It is a progressive idea (poorly designed by conservatives to help big pharme at elderly expense with the donut hole) the objection of repubs should be your 1st clue. And simply because Bush proposed a progressivish policy doesn't make republicans progressive.

  • Healthcare mandate is not progressive. It is conservative policy to compete with the progressive concept of public option/single payer.

So you don't like progressive policy sometimes because it "puts too much power in the hands of the few"? Which progressive policy do you not like for this reason?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Dylan Ratigan is great. He spoke the truth too often and got booted. Doesn't change the fact that the flexibility exists in the ACA to create public option if the people of a given state agitate for it.

Sorry it's the truth. we're covered. It's a big f*ckin deal.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

How about just the names? Nothing beyond the names.

Koch Bros- Im going to guess about maybe 20% of the population recognizes taht name.

Adelson and Norquist? Im going to guess that less than 10% would know who they are, much less what they stand for.

No one cares who funds these two corporate parties. Its all about smear ads on TV, talking points and avoiding the serious questions.

Why dont the people demand more?

Could it be that nasty little six letter word?......

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

there will be around 600 races for federal office
what % of david koch's money is going to Rs ?
what % of charles koch's money is going to Rs ?
what % of adelson's money is going to Rs ?
what % of norquist's support is going to Rs ?

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

100% of their money is going to R's. They are partisan hacks. Whats your point?

Mine is that the vast majority of the entire population has no clue who the fuck they are. Not that that makes them irrelevant, but it means the public is clueless as usual.

Stop focusing on the top layer nonsense, start digging deeper,

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You forgot to answer my last question from our earlier exchange. I'll repeat it for you.

So you don't like progressive policy sometimes because it "puts too much power in the hands of the few"? Which progressive policy do you not like for this reason?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Well, two off the top of my head are ObamaCare and No Child. Each puts the power in a small group of hands, and doesnt allow for free thinking by the people.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Aaah you are against the ACA. What small group has what power in the ACA.?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You linked me to an anti Obama post. It included 4 insurance company stocks.

The ACA signed by PRES OBAMA facilitates the creation of public option and therefore the eventual elimination of private health insurance corps.

So who arethe few people who have all the power in the ACA.? And what power do you think they have?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Um, if Im going to try to not insult you on this one..

Guaranteed customers for a cartel is very bad.....

Only someone who has a bias could look at raw finance stats and see a partisan swing in it.

You realize that Republicans wanted the smae thing in the 90;s right?

There is no public option. Its forced corporatism. Its like taxing and forcing into people for oil consumption, and thinking its going to lead to better power.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

the anti obama element to the link was the Obombya slur.

The financial data is not relevant nor is your unfair charge that "guarenteed customers for a cartel"is very bad because the ACA facilitates the creation of public option. So none of that is an issue. Have no fear we got your concerns covered.

Now please answer (for the 3rd time)

So who are the few people who have all the power in the ACA.? And what power do you think they have?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Wow.,...see now Im going to have to call a spade a spade.

Obviously, you freakin idiot, when the problem with healthcare is rising insurance costs, and you guarantee the insurance companies customers, then its not going to give them a reason to come back to earth.

I bet you swallowed all of Bush and Clintons bullshit too didnt you?

Go look at the fuckin corrupted companies stocks. Those same companeis that buy your fuckin policitians. Watch them go up. And then defend them. And then go find your rock and get back under it.

The markets are what runs things, not your idiot politicians.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"spade"? "freakin odiot"? "swallowed bullshit"? "fuckin"? "find your rock and get back under it"? insults = non existent arguments. Please refrain from this useless offensiveness.

Guess I hit the nerve of truth. Public option is comin. Health ins corps will be put out of business not withstanding the ACA mandate or the rising stock price. The people will agitate and get their states to implement it.

So please answer the question (for the 4th time)

So who are the few people who have all the power in the ACA.? And what power do you think they have?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

THE PEOPLE WITH THE POWER ARE THE INSURNACE COMPANIES.

Theres a reason this was a Republican idea in the 90s you fuckin moron.

Im glad I have yet to run into a single person in real life, at occupy, who think this is a good idea. you media midget.

Ya, force the people to buy from criminals. Thats outta lead to progress. go endorse more fascist bullshit.

And before you claim Im too harsh on you. go to your GA and decalse that ACA was good for them,. do it.... Look at the looks on their faces.... they realize. You are in a fuckin dream land. Decades of propaganda. I bet you thought our "service economy" was going to be fuckin rosy too didnt ya?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"fuckin moron"? "media midget"? "endorse... fascist bullshit"? "fuckin dreamland"? "fuckin rosy"?

Your constant abusiveness is tiresome. Why do you have to be so mean spirited. Why do you have to treat me with so mush disdain, and hatefulness, I have done nothing to you. I have only been respectful even though you do not deserve it. Why must you speak to me like I'm less than you. Do you think you are better? Do you think you are smarter? Do you think your opinion is right and mine is wrong? Well I have news for you. I AM right.

The ACA mandate is horrible and gives much to the insurance sorps but the flexibility we got will allow a public option if the people agitate for it.

Whether you see it or not. Whether the ga sees it or not. It does not matter. The flexibility IS there. And states are already working towards it.

None of your obscenities, insults, nor the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney (who is also against the ACA) will change these facts.

And regarding your incomplete answer to the question you avoided.. NO. the insurance corps do not have the power. The people do. The ACA takes power from the insurance corps, they cannot kick you off when you get sick, they cannot refuse you, they cannot charge women more, they must allow children through 27 to stay on parents policy, they cannot impose a lifetime limit. and many more restrictions on there power.

So you are sadly mistaken. And your lack of knowledge is not hidden by the abuse you hurl at me. It just shows you to be a little man and a bully.

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[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

True story. I seen it myself ;)

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

I have to interject here. You did call it correctly.

public option

The word option does mean you get to chose. Chose what? Well you get to chose either the public option, or private healthcare insurance. It's odd to say the least that you, a dem, would oppose the public option. Could I ask why you oppose a public option and why you fear who would control it?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I supportthe public option and I am disappointed we could not stop the republicans who prevented it's inclusion in the ACA. I am pleased though that we have the necessary flexibility in the ACA to facilitate the creation of a public option if the people of a given state will agitate enough for it.

I am not afraid of who would control it. Why do you ask that.? I am asking you bud HC who he claims are the few people who will have all the power, I ask him further what power exactly he believes they will have. He has yet to answer.

And just for the record,

I am a registered independent and I support the dem agenda. I believe the dems include more progressives (Sanders, Letitia James, E Warren etc) While the republicans proudly trumpet the conservative policies of the 1% plutocrats

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Well, I could see an office being set up by the ACA that interjects a private company to profit as a needless middleman. I think that would be concern for who directs what.

I also support a public option while maintaining the regulations on private insurers that were set up on the healthcare bill.

Pre-argument: No, to many people on the public option would not make private insurers unprofitable because the total payout from private insurers would drop respectfully of the number of lost clients.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You might "see an office being set up..... that interjects a private company to profit as a needless middleman" but that doesn't make it a reality. I don't see that. What would this imaginary private company do? What power would they have? Have you seen this kinda setup in medicaid, medicare, VA healthcare.?

So you don't think the private health ins will be driven out of business? Ok no prob. I do. But if they don't thats fine. As long as people have the option to use the non profit option. You see I believe that is the kind of competition they cannot compete with. But whatever as long as we have a public option I don't care about them.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Two fine examples of this scenario that you find so impossible.

  1. College Loans
  2. The FED
[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Surprise surprise. no explanation. Whatever, your objections (like your buddy HC) is just personal against me.

Do you think you and hc double teaming me will succeed at silencing me?

LMFAO.

ACA is the greatest health care improvement the American people have received since Democratic Pres LBJ's Medicare/Medicaid.

The weaknesses WILL be corrected. There is Public option progress beginning already, whether you and HC recognize it or not. The imaginary private corp you are suggesting the govt "is going to" inject as middleman is just you flailing about in pathetic desperation to try and tear down the amazing success Pres Obama has achieved over the anti 99% republicans.

Peace, Goog luck in all your GOOD efforts.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Pres Obama removed banks from the college loan program.

The FED system is pretty screwed up because banks run it and therefore serve themselves. but that isn't what we are taking about so I don't know what your gettin at.

Care to explain?

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

No, I explained pretty well that politicians have a long track record of injecting private profit middlemen into government programs. The examples are far broader than the two you can hardly raise an argument to. Regardless of any reaction you have to that truth, it remains. hchc's concern is validated.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

deep
deep
deep
deep
deep
deep
deeper: THERE IS A DIFFERENCE


[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Typical as usual. here's what most of us think about talking point heads....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8R8baHPr2E

Please watch to find out how the vast majority of americans feel about idiotic posts/comments/interivews/debates/etc.....

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

That was unbelievably rude, & disrespectful. Why would you link it? You think stock prices are an accurate measure of reality. I don't.

The ACA is historic progress. We WILL eliminate the mandate, and the private health ins industry. That IS the plan. It it WILL come to pass if the people agitate for the public option in the given states.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

What a dick head he was not going to ever allow a discussion. He got her on the show for 1 thing to attack her - which he did. Such BS.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

I have to agree. DWS like most Dems thought she was going to get a free pass on MSNBC but Dylan don't play that. They did a half ass job of passing a really good bill. It is forced capitalism and as such, they need to know there is no compromise that should be made to private profit over the interest of the people. That is the job of government. Profit is not a mandate given to congress. Profit is the sole responsibility of the private sector. Having said that, WOW!

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Shes a fraud, shes as bad with the BS as they come.

The truth is that you cannot deny that passing legislation and stocks going up means those very same companies are in trouble.

Dylan didnt stand for BS. Which is part of hte reason his show is no longer aired.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

What has she done wrong? She is a great soldier for the 99%!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

If He was always like that(?) - It is no wonder he has been cancelled/pulled/dropped.

Stock speculators happy as pigs in a mud wallow? you bet - will the bloom come off(?) - I am thinking Yes - once the INS situation calms down and is flat after the program has commenced - yep the speculators interest will be done and they will start selling - their rocket ride will be over.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Time will tell. You put your money in liars and a corrupted institution. I put my money in the criminals that fund the puppets.

Time will tell.

PS- theres a fuckin reason we want money out of politics. this will prove no different.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - if congress was not so fucked-up we might even be looking at doing a viable Universal Health care program.

People support Move to Amend and all campaigns of similar public good.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

People support a lot of things.

They swallowed up the legislation of the 90;s and early 2000s no problem.. Look where is got us.

Its what they will be saying in the future about this current legislation.

Its doesnt matter what party it is anymore. Money rules them. And no one will give other options a chance.

Good night DKA. God Bless.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That is why the people need to get involved in a major way and then stay involved. This begins with education and outreach ( hello OWS. Occupy and all aware people supporting movements for a better society/World ).

Night Gracie. ( memories of Red Skelton and George Burns )

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The same reason the other half is being deluded by the current one...very very good marketing techniques, and controlling the news.