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Forum Post: Not Leaving Afghanistan After 2014 - new troop level proposals

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 7, 2013, 4 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Posted in the New York Times

By MICHAEL R. GORDON, Published: January 5, 2013

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is considering keeping a force of 3,000 to 9,000 troops in Afghanistan after 2014, American officials said Saturday.

The new options under consideration are smaller than the 6,000 to 20,000 troops Gen. John R. Allen, the American commander in Afghanistan, is said to have previously suggested.

These potential alternatives were produced by the Pentagon at the behest of the White House and reflect a familiar pattern within the Obama administration on the use of force. Sensitive to public opinion and budgetary pressures, the White House has generally favored lower troop levels during its previous deliberations on Afghanistan and Iraq.

The military, by contrast, has tended to favor somewhat higher numbers, because of the greater risks posed by a smaller force carrying out its mission in a rugged and hostile environment like Afghanistan. In this case, the Pentagon believes that the 9,000-troop option — the upper range of the new scale — is more realistic, officials said.

The new troop options were first reported Saturday by The Wall Street Journal, which said they would leave approximately 3,000, 6,000 or 9,000 troops in Afghanistan after 2014, when NATO nations are scheduled to hand over responsibility for security to the Afghans.

The Obama administration’s deliberations over troops comes as Afghanistan’s president, Hamid Karzai, is preparing to visit Washington early this week. The United States and Afghanistan began talks in November on a possible agreement that would authorize an American troop presence in Afghanistan after 2014.

Any force that remains is expected to have several missions. It would include Special Operations forces, which would be assigned to carry out raids against Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups that are deemed to threaten American interests.

The troops would also advise and mentor the Afghan Army and police in conjunction with forces from other NATO nations.

In addition, any American force that remains needs to be able to support itself logistically, to have the ability to carry out medical evacuations and to conduct airstrikes to protect any NATO troops that might be in danger.

A White House decision to field a minimal force might add to the already formidable list of difficulties with Mr. Karzai. The Afghan leader might see a minimal force as an indication that the United States is less interested in advising and training Afghan troops than in retaining the capability to carry out operations against terrorist groups.

The Taliban have also sought to influence the debate over United States troop levels. In a statement issued Saturday, the Taliban warned that they would continue the war if any “residual” troops remained, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors terrorist organizations and their communications.

The number of troops to retain in Afghanistan after 2014 is not the only decision facing the White House. It also needs to decide how quickly to withdraw the 66,000 troops currently in Afghanistan and how many troops to keep there in 2013.

Two American officials said last year that General Allen wanted to keep a significant military capability through the fighting season ending in fall 2013, which might translate to a force of more than 60,000 troops until the end of that period. The White House is believed to favor faster reductions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/world/asia/us-weighs-fewer-troops-after-2014-in-afghanistan.html?_r=0

"that's trillions with an S" - David Petraeus.

New Silk Road in Afghanistan says Petraeus - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvQJcMmPmsY

37 Comments

37 Comments


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[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Fuckin wonderful....

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I hope after the 16 years of wars for corporate profits shrouded with lies and misinformation under Bush and Obama that people will truly understand that the 2 parties in America are really just 2 factions of the corporate state.

War is torture.

Here is a great article on the cover-up of CIA torture

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/09/pers-s07.html

From the book America's War Against Iraqi Civilians by Chris Hedges.

The vanquished know war. They see through the empty jingoism of those who use the abstract words of "glory," "honor," and "patriotism" to mask the cries of the wounded, the brutal killing, war profiteering, and chest pounding grief.

They know the lies the "victors" often do not acknowledge, the lies covered up in stately war memorials and mythic war narratives, filled with stories of comradeship. They know the lies that permeate the thick, self-important memoirs by amoral statesmen who make wars but do not know war. The vanquished know the essence of war - death. They grasp that war is necrophilia. They see that war is almost a state of pure sin, with its goals of hatred and destruction. They know how war fosters alienation, leads inevitably to nihilism, and is turning away from the sanctity and preservation of life.

All other narratives about war too easily fall prey to the allure and seductiveness of violence as well as the attraction to the godlike power that comes with the license to kill without impunity.

[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Pretty sure it's an indefinite stay if the US wants to keep the puppet that was put into place over there in power (karzai).

[-] 0 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Hmmm...sounds similar to the "withdrawal" from Iraq....leave behind an embassy as big as the vatican and keep troops there indefinitely.

Always playing the partisan card VQ...thanks for keeping up the good fight.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago
[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Part 6 states "we do not want to establish a permanent presence"

You wanna try again.?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

haha....kind of doesnt line up with the rest of it, does it.

Same thing in Iraq. Same thing in the other 130 countries our people are in.

Every empire comes to be through force. And overuse of force is what destroys everyone.

Have fun with Hagel leading the road to peace and Gore leading the road to less pollution.

Where are his plans to reverse GATT and NAFTA? Oh ya, he doesnt have any.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Whose plans to reverse conservative trade deal? Gore? He ain't in office, Hagel? he is defense nominee. They don't need plans for that.

The Pres & congressional leaders wouldbe responsible for that.

Make some sense

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Oh, so we should just let them appoint whoever they want, no insight from the people?

That doesnt sound very horizontal to me at all.

Next.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We don't have horizontal governance you moron! The President nominates, & the congress approves.

The peoples voice is supposed to be heard through electing the pols who will do what we want. Unfortunately, conservative 1% corp oligarchs have bought the peoples govt and we have no say.

Understand?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I understand. Hows that workin out for ya?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

It sucks. But we made minor progress this past election cycle. Beat some right wing extremists, elected some more progressives.

So until the horizontal, ground up, direct democracy system emerges and gets implemented, we will continue the fight against the anti 99% right wing wacko fucks.

It's all we can do.

Get into the street and protest against all bad anti 99% conservative policies. Agitate ALL pols for progressive change that benefits the 99%.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Partisan how? I think the story is Obama propaganda. Are you suggesting I am playing anti dem partisanship? LOL that would be a 1st.

[-] -1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

I thought you were suggesting that the post was bogus and your man Obama was going to pull all the troops.

If the US leaves afghanistan - get ready for Karzai to be overthrown. This is what happens when you intervene in a country in which you don't understand the politics and force a system of government and leader on the people....they get a little pissed. In my opinion - there is no way obama is going to leave...no way.

Found it interesting the other day...watching an interview where a guy went around to a bunch of different politicians and just asked them to explain the difference between "shiites" and "sunni's".....they couldn't. If you don't have knowledge of the most basic kind to understand the muslim world - why in the world should these guys be making foreign policy decisions??

Pols should be forced to take exams before they enter office - the stupid factor would weed out 90% of them.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Afghan troop withdrawal to start in a couple of months!

http://truth-out.org/news/item/13867-obama-to-accelerate-handover-to-afghan-army

All anti war protesters should congratulate themselves for pushing this withdrawal sooner rather than later.

Now let's ratchet up the protests against drone strikes!

[-] 0 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Goodbye karzai

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

good riddance. But it ain't over yet. Continued demonstrations against this war and all war is necessary

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

What about this progressive story.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/13796-us-could-refuse-to-leave-any-troops-in-afghanistan

What's gonna happen?

[-] 2 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Karzai is making logical sense....he knows if he doesn't take control he's gonna be ousted all the quicker...he knows his people view him as a puppet. To stop further unrest from spreading he's trying to appease the people by distancing himself from the US. Don't think they're gonna buy it...but logical on his part.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

He's done! You can stick a fork in him & turn him over. For us I think we will let him go and anything happen as long as the pipelines are untouched.

I mean I'm sure we will continue drone bombing Taliban/Al Qaeda, but I think the oil/gas is more important to TPTB.

[-] 0 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Lol, interesting how pipelines always seem to coincide with countries we invade.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Probably usually. And I think going as far back as WWI. Best thing we can do to minimize that horrible reality is make massive progress in implementing green energy.

Gotta remove the American car driving demand from the equation and TPTB will stop bombing brown people.

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I'm not against exams for politicians, and I agree that the Afghan resource war was a massive mistake. I have protested it from the beginning and maintain my opposition against it & the drone strikes we are engaged in all over the middle east/north Africa.

As far as withdrawing, I think in fact we will withdraw all but a token few. (3k?) but continue the drone strikes/seal team missions.

It's a real problem, that will require WE protest against US military actions we do not support.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

why would we leave that is our territory now. oh what you didn't get the memo? yeah buddy all those mineral deposits discovered http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 all that opium http://publicintelligence.net/us-afghan-patrolling-poppy-fields-2012/ and marijuana http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/afghanistan-world-top-marijuana-supplier-article-1.173257 grown. now why the fuck would we give all that up??? you have to be out of your fucking mind.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I don't support imperialist capitalism.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

yes you do. you support it with every tax dollar you give. every psychopath troop you support. every fuel purchase, every mass produced item of consumption, every fiber of you your being. you support it.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

in a way you are right. I do drive a car.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

ditch the ride man.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I am actually planning on moving to a building that is walking distance to my work in the summer so in many ways I can "ditch the ride."

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[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Seriously troll you said that in your comment below.

Stop stalking my comments you creepy fuck

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[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

troll leave me alone.

Go outside.

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[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

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Copy and pasted just for you! It supposed to say troll!

Stop stalking my comments you delusional old man.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

what type of capitalism do you support?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

it's all imperialism either way you look at it. The way they destroy cities in America for resources then leave the town dry once it's tapped. Like they did in Flint, Camden and others.

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

what resources were destroyed in camden and detroit?

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