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Forum Post: We are NOT going to let this happen. NO FUCKING WAY.

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 26, 2012, 10 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

There are two big new stories in the news that we all need to be aware of. They involve our freedom and they are highly related.

The first is the case regarding the NDAA that is headed for the Supreme Court within weeks. The excellent article at this link sums up the case and what's at stake. If you haven't read this, it will shock you: http://truth-out.org/news/item/13524-chris-hedges-%7C-the-final-battle .

The second piece of big news is the recent release of FBI documents (via a Freedom of Information Act request) related to the Occupy movement and this is the news I will focus on here.

Occupy supporters and participants are American citizens. They are teachers, small business people, lawyers, students, farmers, writers, sales people, doctors, factory workers, secretaries, ministers, sanitation workers, miners, executives, mothers, fathers, voters, church goers, soldiers, actors, home makers, managers and senior citizens. At one point last fall major news outlets reported in numerous polls that 40 - 50% of Americans supported the Occupy Wall Street movement. People of all ages were out in the street exercising their right to free speech. Apparently, the FBI treated this as "DOMESTIC TERRORISM".

FBI documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act show that "the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security are treating protests against the corporate and banking structure of America as potential criminal and terrorist activity." http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/fbi-files-ows.html

Think about that. They're treating nonviolent protests as CRIMINAL. This is total fucking bullshit. Nonviolent protests where people are using their freedom of speech to speak out against the Wall St. corporations that crashed our economy are NOT criminal protests. Corporatists are ruining our environment, wrecking our economy, undermining our government and stealing our children's futures and WE'RE somehow the criminals? No fucking way.. This will not stand. We're not going to let them treat us as criminals. We the people CARE about this country enough to push back against the corporate takeover of government. Corporatists have hijacked our republic.

The FBI is no longer working for the people apparently. It's working for the hijackers. This really fucking pisses me off. We need to engage in nonviolent direct action of all kinds to unseat these corporate hijackers and restore our great republic. This is a damn good country. And there's no fucking way we're going to let a bunch of nihilistic self serving misguided corporatists run it into a ditch to further enhance their wealth.

No fucking way. Nonviolent direct action of all kinds is in order to expose the injustice and underhandedness for all to see. Strikes, boycotts, sit ins, walk outs, marches, teach ins, street theater, writings, blockades, ...... It's time to unseat the hijackers. We have the power -- check out these 2 links! http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/ AND http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-have-the-power-to-turn-this-world-around-this-o/

We're not fighting against the government. We're fighting to RESTORE the government. To win, we're going to have to create a lot of nonviolent tension to bring injustice out into the light.

We the people can't be afraid of the word tension. Nonviolent tension can be transformative and good.**  The following is from Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "Letter from the Birmingham Jail":

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. . . I am not afraid of the word 'tension'. I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. . . The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. . ."

We need to put up some guardrails to protect our government and the American people from the corporatists who are slowly hijacking our republic. We need to push back nonviolently in a BIG way in order to bring injustice into the light of day and put up some meaningful guardrails. Below I offer just one example. It will take gatherings of 800,000 or more in DC and NEW YORK. Here's what one Washington, DC nonviolent protest might look like:

I recommend we take the following action in late spring 2014 to allow time for planning, laying groundwork and buildup:

We should make the 8 demands BELOW very publicly at a press conference a few days after arriving in DC.  When laying out these 8 demands, we should give a clear deadline of 30 days for a firm written commitment with signatures from at least 60% of members of House and 60% of the members of the Senate to pass these bills by the end of the year. If this commitment on the full slate of demands is not met by midnight on the 30th day (which it won't be) we should be prepared to non-violently block access to all or part of the Capitol complex the next morning by traditional proven non-violent tactics. The purpose is to bring the leaders of the House and Senate to the negotiating table.

KEEP IN MIND: There are always entrances because there is always a point where people who work there have to leave the public street and enter secure space. We should focus our non-violent direct action and civil disobedience on those entrances no matter where they move them because these are, by definition, always accessible.

8 DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS

  1. CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT"http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT that were repealed in the 90's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act . Most economists believe the repeal of this act directly contributed to the severity of the financial crisis of 2007–2011.

  2. USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis 

  3. CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections.  This law should also restore the "Fairness Doctrine".

  4. CONGRESS PASS a revised version of THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. 

  5. CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it FULLY at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. 

  6. CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS (including ALEC) WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.

  7. CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS TO GO TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year.

  8. ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. 

The list of 8 items above is NOT an end all be all, of course.  But those things will get the corporate foot off our neck long enough to allow us the breathing room to go further towards the root of the problem. Also, I absolutely agree that we need to push with all kinds of protests of all sizes today, tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. I'm not suggesting at all that we do nothing between now and 2014, just as I'm not suggesting summer 2014 protests will take care of everything. We need thousands of protests small and large and we need to push from inside the system and outside the system using all nonviolent means at our disposal. The list above only focuses on one aspect. We need to push back on the civil liberties front (see NDAA article link at top of this page), environmental fronts, economic justice front, poverty / income disparity / wealth disparity, workers rights, food safety, healthcare and so much more. We can bring about a fundamental shift if we band together as the 99% and push. We just have to realize we have more in common than we have separating us. We have squabbled amongst ourselves for too long while corporatists have slowly hijacked our republic, damaged our environment, wrecked our economy and stolen our children's futures. It's time to push back. There's nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

**Here's another part to work on too, something that will get to the very root of the problems we are having** : GOOD NEWS http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-view-why-gun-control-peace-treaties-campaign-f/ ).

Check out this short quote from John O'Donohue: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-have-the-power-to-turn-this-world-around-this-o/

We can't sit on the sidelines. Remember, Martin L. King, Jr. didn't let us off the hook at all. He once said this:

"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.”

'Rise like Lions after slumber

In unvanquishable number,

Shake your chains to earth like dew

Which in sleep had fallen on you -

Ye are many - they are few."

(P.B.Shelley)

69 Comments

69 Comments


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[-] 6 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Shadz passed this gem along the other day:

'Rise like Lions after slumber

In unvanquishable number,

Shake your chains to earth like dew

Which in sleep had fallen on you -

Ye are many - they are few."

(P.B.Shelley)

[-] 4 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We don't have to put up with this bullshit. Together we are greater than the sum of our parts. For every one of them, there are 99 of us. With nonviolent direct action, we can unseat these corporate hijackers and restore this great republic.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

When you look at how hard it is to just get people to show up once a month it kind of makes the revolutionary war look that much more impressive.

I mean, imagine trying to drum up support for something that radical!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It is incredible when you think about it that way. Well, they didn't have TV back then so I suppose they were hungry for stimulation, more informed / less propagandized. And I also think it took years of buildup right?

Regardless, it is incredible how people got off their sofas back then to form a new nation! The sofas must have been less comfortable.

Imagine how vivid and alive they felt. . . But you know what? The same feeling was present in our little park in New York and in other occupations across the country. You could feel the excitement, awareness, the aliveness and the joy. It was buzzing.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Great ideas - unfortunately, #8 can ONLY be done with a constitutional amndment-
what do you think of our approach and site:

http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I just tried the second link you sent and it's working. Looks like a great effort! Thanks for all you're doing. I'm all for pushing from within the system and pushing from outside. I think both are necessary if we're going to unseat the corporatists who have temporarily hijacked our republic.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm for whatever nonviolent action works. Can you please reply with link. For some reason that one didn't work.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

maybe its the bold ?
please try again
at ideas - unfortunately, #8 can ONLY be done with a constitutional amndment- what do you think of our approach and site:

http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Great approach and site. Thanks for all you're doing. We need to push from inside and out.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

outrageous. Not surprised about the "dom Terror" design which is why we insisted on the freed of infp request.

We can't let up. Stay informed (good job on this post) and grow the activism.

Fill up the jails if we must!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes. Yes. Yes. This is a crucial moment in our nation's history. We can't spend it being dazzled by shiny objects. The republic needs us Americans to SEIZE THIS DAY!!

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We need more public actions to make people aware. A billboard, something.

Protests certainly. We must illustrate how these legal threats hurt regular everyday Americans.

And I continue to stress we must identify, denounce humiliate all pols/leaders who spew the fear mongering 'war on terror', propaganda that has lulled the population into submission.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The big lie is hidden in plain site. And we American citizens / occupy supporters have the power to shine a bright light on it for all to see. Direct action is that light. This is an incredible combination (direct action and Internet/new media: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-have-the-power-to-turn-this-world-around-this-o/

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ok. And the supreme court indef case does not bring me much confidence.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

They can't lock us all up man.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

No theycan't and they really don't the images of peaceful protesters being arrested en mass.

Bad press, That's how a movement can grow.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Brooklyn Bridge protest and California school pepper spray images spread round the world and made the corporate hijackers and their political minions look foolish --- the images of Americans being arrested and pepper sprayed juxtaposed with Egyptian protesters, Russian protesters etc really make the injustice stand out. The light of day. The light of day. Nonviolent peaceful protest brings injustice into the light of day.

It's time for the people to rise. As soon as we realize we have more in common than we have separating us, we will be able to make decisions from a position of unified strength instead of demands from a position of divided weakness. We are the 99%. We have the power. Check this other link out (different from earlier one :) http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

And we won the court case against nypd regarding Bklyn Brdge arrests, (Don't know about Cali).

More actions like that will move the progressive agenda forward..

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think that's how it's done. Those protests get the 99% together, rallied and educated. Awareness raising at its finest with the mainstream media helping :)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well, maybe we need nonviolent marches, protests, blockades, etc outside Supreme Court to raise awareness and make sure government officials (in Congress, Supreme Court etc) know that American citizens are awake, active and paying close attention. The only way they're getting away with this bullshit is that so far, in general, we as a population have remained silent. Those days are over.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

YES YES YES Technology is great for staying connected and informed but I fear it's too limiting. We've got to go to DC. We need to organize ASAP. Count me in. I'm ready to go.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think it's going to take a whole lot of pushing but we're going to win this with nonviolent direct action.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Yes but there is a very violent opponent.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Definitely! I like the Supreme court protests.

That can excite people. Hopefully.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Anything nonviolent that gets the word out is crucial right now. The mechanisms they are quietly putting in place threaten our right to freedom of speech. They put a chill on our rights. This is really really upsetting. NDAA giving ability to detain American citizens without any trial. FBI treating peaceful nonviolent protesters as enemies. Not cool at all. We have to do something about this. Wake up people. Our great republic has been hijacked. We need to unseat the corporate hijackers and restore the rule of law. We need to fight to restore strong government of the people, by the people -- not government of the corporations by the corporations.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Agreed!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Did I mention how much this stuff pisses me off??? Why the hell have we allowed it to get this far. Shit. This is like when you take a problem and putting it in a drawer thinking it will go away. We Americans kept ignoring this stuff and it's gotten bigger and bigger. They've quietly increased the power of corporations legislatively and bought politicians outright. Groups like ALEC have been literally writing legislation in our state legislatures. What exactly is it going to take for us Americans to rise from our sofas and get back in the streets?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

for some, Catastrophe

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We can't be that shortsighted. No way. I can't believe a mammal wouldn't have a drive for preservation of the self and species. Do you honestly believe it needs to get that bad?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Only for some. And only because they have been brainwashed by neo cons. Enough will come around for us to progress.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think the results will largely be determined by the extent to which we Occupy supporters and others use direct nonviolent action of all kinds. I think that paired with the web is a new combo they can't beat. http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You should read some of Hedges' books if you ever have time.

Great post! Thanks for the links!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Will definitely check out Hedge's books. I saw he was part of the group arrested for blocking entrance to Goldman Sachs last fall. So cool to have a Pulitzeer Prize winning author on our team :)

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

What I like so much about Hedges, is he gives no fucks about mass conformity and "political correctness." He writes what needs to be written and says what needs to be said even if it means facing ridicule from his peers.

Like Michael Moore speaking out against the war during the Oscars, Hedges had the same fallout at the New York Times. They were trying to censor him for going outside the political rhetoric.

I'm just finishing Death of the Liberal Class. Great read, one of the best books I've read, but also very depressing. I plan on reading Days of Destruction Days of Revolt next week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9qPGzqpuYc

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I've read some of his articles and essays and am eager to read some of his books. From the little I've read so far, I think his dose of truth is an important wake up call for complacent Americans and activists alike. In some of his pieces, I hungered for him to go further than the diagnosis and provide the treatment. Perhaps he does more of that in his books. Without that, I think he can come off as depressing. But really, it's actually invigorating to hear truth instead of the constant din of bullshit.

My hope is that Hedges courageous and powerful work and that of Chomsky and others doesn't just depress people but inspires them towards action. I need to read more of both to see if they provide hope. Because, if there's one thing I've learned in life, it's always darkest before the dawn. Martin L King, Jr. was a realist and optimist at the same time. He did what worked.

Being that you are deep in one of his books right now, do you have any insight into whether Hedges provides hope? The truth is that, if everyone read his books, we'd get our act together quickly (the 99% would unify and seize power back to the people) and our problems would be somewhat solved. So there is hope for us to be "scared straight". I just don't want the work of truth to make us want to give up. The 1% is totally beatable. Does Hedges say that and show us the way and inspire us?

I too love that he speaks the truth even if it means pissing off even those who are supposedly important or leaning in his direction. I would love to know more about his relationship with NY Times. That story would say a lot about the media and America all by itself.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Heges says revolt through mass levels of civil disobedience is our only hope. More than protests, he suggests doing, like what Occupy did in Cali, shutting down ports that bring in outsourced goods and calls to action like that. Hit the power elite where it hurts. I haven't read his new book, where I know he talks a lot more about this in detail, but he mentions it several times in the book I'm reading now.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm eager to read that new book. Thanks for turning me on to it. Picking it up this weekend.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

It's Days of Destruction Days of Revolt. I'll let you know how it is. I plan on reading it real fast once I get it. The mail order is taking too long.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Cool. I'm all for hitting the power elite in their wallets nonviolently where it hurts. We need to do that very strategically and relentlessly to provide direct pushback and also to bring attention to the issues. I am glad hedges and chomsky are united on some things. A powerful voice in a land hungry for truth.

I'm tired of the big lie and eager to see it fully unmasked in a way that all can see.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

My sense (again, I've only read some of his articles / essays and not his books yet) is that Hedges does a tremendous job waking us up to the sheer size, weight and momentum of the corporate hijacking of our government, economy, environment and our mindset. And, skipping ahead here (admittedly without having read his books YET), my view is that the prescription for the ailment Hedges lays out so well is:

A - this http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

B - this http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-have-the-power-to-turn-this-world-around-this-o/ AND even more importantly. . .

C - THIS: CHANGE OF MINDSET http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-view-why-gun-control-peace-treaties-campaign-f/

I see real hope because of the power of A, B and C to wake people up and transform their mindsets -- the mindsets of the 1% and the 99% -- both of which contribute to the terrifying problems Hedges describes.

What I'm suggesting in A and B is that we should not despair. We have the power in our hands to win this.

What I'm suggestin in C is more important to me --- And that is that we the 99% can't just blame the 1% for the whole thing. We have to realize our part in creating / carrying the interior conditions / mindset that allow for such environmental, economic and political destruction. Once we realize we are part of the problem, we can be part of the solution.

For what it's worth, I have been through the despair part of this and came out the other side. That doesn't mean I don't get sad, pissed , furious about what the 1% are doing and what we the 99% are letting them get away with through our inaction. I'm pissed as hell and just as worried as the rest of us, if not more. But I know we can do this. Study of King, Gandhi and others has convinced me that we have the power to change things in terms of action on the outside. Study of Mingyur Rinpoche ("Joyful Wisdom" a book about our supposed age of anxiety), Thich Nhat Hanh ("The Heart of Understanding") and many others have convinced me that we have the power to change our inner mindset on a fundamental level. Once that fundamental shift occurs (which I believe is underway now on a societal level), the conditions for exploitation won't be in place. Greed, exploitation, oppression and mindless ravaging of the economy, environment and government just can't grow there. We can make ourselves and this world a terrible habitat for those things so they will be far less likely to grow here.

We can do this.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

They can't arrest us all!

[-] 0 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Right - The rest will either concede and bow down or be killed. If you don't go along ............... you'll go away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I really think there is a "spirit of the times" and this represents it:

'Rise like Lions after slumber

In unvanquishable number,

Shake your chains to earth like dew

Which in sleep had fallen on you -

Ye are many - they are few."

(P.B.Shelley)

The following quote from O'Donohue really captures it:

"Sometimes when we look out, the world seems so dark. War, violence, hunger and misery seem to abound. This makes us anxious and helpless. What can I do in my private little corner of life that could have any effect on the march of world events? The usual answer is: nothing. We then decide to do what we can for our own, and leave the great events to their domain. Thus, we opt out, and join the largest majority in the world : those who acquiesce. Believing ourselves to be helpless, we hand over all our power to forces and systems outside us that then act in our names; they go on to put their beliefs into action; and ironically these actions are often sinister and destructive.

We live in times when the call of full and critically aware citizenship could not be more urgent. We need to rediscover the careless courage, yet devastating simplicity, of the little boy who, in the middle of the numbered multitude, in naive Socratic fashion, blurts out; " But the emperor has no clothes." When spoken, the word of truth can bring down citadels of falsity.

Real presence is the ideal of all true individuation. When we yield to helplessness, we strengthen the hand of those who would destroy. When we choose indifference, we betray our world. Yet the world is not decided by action alone. It is decided more by consciousness and spirit; they are the secret sources of all action and behavior. The spirit of a time is an incredibly subtle, yet hugely powerful force. And it is comprised of the mentality and spirit of all individuals together. Therefore, the way you look at things is not simply a private matter. Your outlook actually and concretely affects what goes on. When you give in to helplessness, you collude with despair and add to it.

When you take back your power and choose to see the possibilities for healing and transformation, your creativity awakens and flows to become an active force of renewal and encouragement in the world. In this way, even in your own hidden life, you can become a powerful agent of transformation in a broken, darkened world. There is a huge force field that opens when intention focuses and directs itself toward transformation."

[-] 0 points by JohnFKennedyIV (11) 1 year ago

All of the Liberty movement are classified as terrorists as well. Welcome to the club ladies and gentlemen.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I was just checking out the Liberty movement site. Man, they need to work on the verbiage there. It says right on the homepage: "Virtually all the progress the human race has enjoyed during the past few centuries is due to the increasing acceptance of free markets, civil liberties, and self-ownership." http://www.libertarianism.com/content/the-liberty-movement/lib_mov

That makes it sound like us all retreating to our lairs and being separate has been a positive. It seems our society has become less and less community oriented and more and more people feel isolated. Fewer people take care of each other. Our schools, roads and bridges are decaying. We've followed the "every man for himself" Ayn Rand philosophy for a long time now and it's taken us down a long dark road. I tend to think more along the lines of what Dostoevsky, Einstein and Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote below:

Dostoevsky wrote the following in the Brothers Karamazov:

"Today, everyone asserts his own personality and strives to live a full life as an individual. But these efforts lead not to a full life but to suicide, because instead of realizing his personality, man only slips into total isolation. For in our age, man has been broken up into self-contained individuals, each of whom retreats into his lair, trying to stay away from the rest, hiding himself and his belongings from the rest of mankind, and finally isolating himself from people and people from him.

And while he accumulates material wealth in his isolation, he thinks with satisfaction how mighty and secure he has become, because he is mad and cannot see that the more goods he accumulates, the deeper he sinks into suicidal impotence. The reason for this is that he has become accustomed to relying only on himself; he has split off from the whole and become an isolated unit; he has trained his soul not to rely on human help, not to believe in man and mankind, and only to worry that the wealth and privileges he has accumulated may get lost.

Everywhere men today are turning scornfully away from the truth that the security of the individual cannot be achieved by his isolated efforts but only by mankind as a whole.

BUT AN END to this fearful isolation is bound to come and all men will understand how unnatural it was for them to have isolated themselves from one another. This will be the spirit of the new era and people will look in amazement at the past when they sat in darkness and refused to see the light. . . . . . Until that day, we must keep hope alive, and now and then a man must set an example, even if only an isolated one, by trying to lift his soul out of its isolation and offering it up in an act of brotherly communion, even if he is taken for one of God's fools.

This is necessary to keep the great idea alive."

Albert Einstein said this:

“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

Martin Luther King, Jr. put it this way:  "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be and you can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be.  We are, all of us, inextricably linked."

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

"the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security are treating protests against the corporate and banking structure of America as potential criminal and terrorist activity."

This coupled with deprival's of justice in US district courts are essentially treason. It has only been the mudding of the water with issues like 9-11 that make such behavior anything but obviously treasonous.

Herein is EXACTLY what was being pointed out a year ago relating to the fact that OWS was not overtly defending the constitution, but in stead were demanding to use rights granted under it. That illogical structure makes it possible for the fbi to misrepresent the protests.

Wake up protesters, you are going to be used against your own purposes UNLESS you overtly defend the constitution, that which guarantees your right to protest.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You don't work for ALEC do you? If we didn't have a strong federal government when James Meredith went to college, he wouldn't have been aloud in the door. States rights seems like it can do some harm. Especially when ALEC is literally writing the laws and ramming them through. I think the jig is up. I think the cat is out of the bag. The Internet has rendered the propaganda machine powerless. It cranks out the fancy double talk but nobody's listening.

I think we're winning. Do you work for ALEC?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

People keep saying you have a hidden agenda here. And article V is supported by ALEC. So I'm confused.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

ALEC would love to have an article V convention at this point in time - as there are enough people in government that do not support the good of the people - that they likely could steal the process.

One reason why I support initiatives/campaigns like Move To Amend - where the whole issue is laid out - clearly - separately - the initiative passes and it brings us a step closer to regaining a government of the people.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Ahh. Interesting. An initiative without a hidden agenda :). How refreshing! "Regaining government of the people." Damn I love the sound of that. It has such a nice ring to it.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

True {:-]) People for people/life/society/environment/world.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What are the odds an article V convention could occur? Seems almost impossible.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

All depends on who is in office - and/or how much support you can get from the public if you go state by state in a campaign process - and then again it depends on who you have in office. Because an article V can be called without the public.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh man. That's not cool.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No no it's not.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

So, ALEC supports an article V convention right? And the groundwork can be laid behind the scenes the way ALEC does everything else right? So this could actually happen. Very unlikely but still possible? If that slight chance turned into actual convention set up by ALEC and friends, what do you think might be some specific examples of constitutional elements they would change? What would be different for the average working American in the heartland after that convention?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

OH - Hell - I would hate to speculate - just consider the fact it would not be good for People/individuals/citizens that live and breathe. That is why it is so important that if nothing else is accomplished right now - the removal of corpoRAT personhood is the essential need/start/necessity. I am going back to bed catch ya later.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Man, we gotta figure this out. Let's chat here more later.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure - later ( for me ) my head is still packed full of soggy cotton.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Take your time. I know the feeling :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28436) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thx - I will try to work my way back into good discussions - here and there.

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Make a list of those people.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/action-petition-alec-to-make-a-statement-about-the/

I'm after ALEC to be accountable for their position in this controversy here. Way too much referral to them and joint usage of ALEC as reason to fear Article V.

I see a very developed and sophisticated joint usage to create fear in the people with abuse of quasi authority. Fear of the constitution which is VERY unconstitutional.

Let us find out.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

So, ALEC supports an article V convention right? And the groundwork can be laid behind the scenes the way ALEC does everything else right? So this could actually happen. Very unlikely but still possible? If that slight chance turned into actual convention set up by ALEC and friends, what do you think might be some specific examples of constitutional elements they would change? What would be different for the average working American in the heartland after that convention?

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

This thread,

http://occupywallst.org/forum/action-petition-alec-to-make-a-statement-about-the/

is about finding the answer to this question,

therising wrote: "So, ALEC supports an article V convention right?"

We cannot believe that ALEC would actually support a "constitutional convention", or one where all amendments have "constitutional intent". Therefore logically, ALEC supports an "unconstitutional convention".

That petition will reveal one way or the other, the answer to the question.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

When do you expect to hear back?

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

like it matters what alec wants/will do/ pretends to be HAS BEENS that

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well, ALEC has had a pretty significant impact on our state laws, etc so, yes, I think it is something that matters . . . Something we need to pay attention to and push back against.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

After 1000 signatures, that's a valid question.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

OK. Well, keep us posted. I'd just like to get an idea of what you're end game is on that..... Whether you get response or don't.