★ New Forum Features ★
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 7, 2012, 6:07 p.m. EST by jart (1186) from New York, NY
I just made your forum experience better today :)
Changes:
Pages load snappier. The forum listing pages should now render in ~100ms as it once was.
Forum thread searching. If you go to the forum page you'll see a search box beneath the donate button. It only displays 50 results right now and doesn't search comments. Here's some example searches:
Bayesian spam filtering. This means the spam problem is effectively over for our users and moderators until the spammers start a new campaign, except now it'd probably be a waste of their time because I also told the forum to
rel="nofolllow"all hyperlinks. No more piggybacking on my mad SEO skills.The karma of a comment now appears before the username to make it easier for your eyes to find.
Enjoy <3
great, it's about time something was done about the trolls
jart gives rayl a cookie for using ipv6
Interesting, I didn't know how abstracted you were from the sockets. Apparently you can at least see the protocol, so I assume you can see the IP address. Am I right?
If you can see IP addresses, is there any way to filter people using different names from the same IP ? I know some folks have rotating IPs, but you could at least prevent the same IP from being simultaneously logged in under different names. If you add a delay after log in, you'd seriously slow down the folks who use multiple names to come in here voting posts up and down excessively, engage in conversations with themselves, spam, and cause other mischief !
Note how Thrasymaque's benign comment below at http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-forum-features/#comment-573587 has been voted down to collapse. Ditto for my own super benign post below at http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-forum-features/#comment-572906. That's what folks are doing with multiple account names.
I'm not advocating censorship, just honesty and transparency.
I'm really not a fascist. Really, I'm not ;o)
You can see the IP addresses using just about any web development stack. I wouldn't really consider it low level stuff. However I can't see your mac address :P
I haven't really had the time to sit down and figure out how to deal with the sockpuppet and vote brigade problem yet. We had a problem about a month ago where people wrote scripts to do an absolutely shameless amount of vote fraud so I just put some limitations in place and deleted all the fraudulent votes. I also used to have a thing that limited votes based on both IP and username but I accidentally deleted the part that limits based on IP and haven't gotten around to restoring it.
I don't think anyone but the first router can see a MAC address. Am I wrong ? If other's can see it, then I'll have to start spoofing my MAC address !
I think putting the IP check at login with a short delay might be even more effective. Folks would have to log out of one name and log in with the next for each one of their actions under a different user name. A knowledgeable user would know how to get around this, but I don't thing most of the troublesome folks are all that knowledgeable.
Correct :)
As for delays, we have a few in place already. It mostly just raises the stakes at how many IP addresses a spammer has to get a hold of to do their thing. They can always be tweaked to be better, and take more variables into consideration, but that's just one a million things I could be working on.
One thing I've been meaning to do is make signing up more difficult. I have a few tricks up my sleeves.
The difference between trolls and infiltrators needs to be defined.
Trolls are fishing for trashy argument. Cognitive infiltrators have to appear reasonable at first glance, and even deeper. The person dealing with them knows fairly quickly that they actually are only about evasion, distraction and confusion. When there are more than one supporting this in whatever way, it is very hard for a lurker who is trying to figure out which side of a story is real, to actually know by reading in that environment. Meaning that the sincere poster confronted with this does not get their message across, perhaps ever. Maybe after about 5 times as long.
Troll was invented so those that wish to deny the existence of the cognitive infiltration had another label for the agents to assist their covert activity.
GOL ! That's "Groan Out Loud !"
Perhaps jart could arrange it so that every post and comment is passed through you to check for 'infiltrators' per your normal analytical methods. That way, the comments from everyone who disagrees with you and your silly conspiracy theories.. wait, I mean.. the 'infiltrators' can be removed.
The best protection against "agents" is to promote the scientific method over pseudo-science like conspiracy theories. "Agents" can only publish opinions and arguments that can be counter-argued. There's nothing to fear if you demand that people provide solid evidence for their claims. You should always fight the arguments, and never the proposer. Anything else is a logical fallacy.
yet you fight renneye not her conspiracy theories, stop preaching
I fight her because she keeps breaking the forum rules. Her conspiracy theories have all been debunked ages ago, they are not worth fighting.
yes but here you clearly state fight the arguements and not the proposer, i haven't seen you debunk shit, you just hack her account and post stupid posts.
The nonsense she posts has already been debunked all over the web. Please take a moment to read her posts and search for debunkers. I'm not going to re-debunk the Illuminati just for you. Doing so would be a waste of time, IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. She is breaking the forum rules and must be destroyed. It's that simple. In any case, the admins have already banned her twice but she keeps coming back. She has no respect for this forum. None.
i didnt expect you to debunk anything, sorry for implying that you should, however according to you prior comment on how you should not fight the proposer but the argument would imply that should.
You should always fight the arguments instead of the proposer when there is something of worth to discuss. In this case, there is nothing of worth on the table. She is proposing nonsensical conspiracy theories like one where members of the congress drink the blood of babies and another where most of the US population has been micro-chipped by the elite and can be controlled as if they were slaves. This is trolling pure and simple and does not deserve my time for a proper debunking.
I suppose you are an amateur of the NWO.
In any case, she is here to ruin the reputation of OWS.
an amatuer of the NWO what does that mean, i understand that all of that conspiracy crap is crap plain and simple but i would disagree is regards to it be trolling. Also while it may not deserve your time to debunk, does it deserve your time of hacking and ridiculing and (in my opinion) trolling?
NWO is the New World Order. Her conspiracy theories are easy enough to debunk, she has the burden of proof and has provided none. Pending solid proof, she has been debunked.
Yes, it is trolling because it is against the forum rules to post this nonsense as it taints the image of OWS. OWS pays me to take her down, so no, it's not a waste of my time. I like it and it pays the bills.
i understand what the new world order is, what do you mean by "amatuer" of the nwo
god forbid someone commits a thought-crime
Sorry, stupid mistake coming from French. I meant a fan of NWO.
o no worries, i'm certainly not a fan of the nwo
"public enemy" is more political than NWA
Are you now denying that you are yourself one of those "agents"? A month ago, without any provocation on my part, you inserted the following comment on one of my older posts :
"WARNING: On this site, I have been called a troll, a psyops capable of mind infiltration, and a government mole because I criticize certain aspects of Occupy. Please, be careful."
You even used ITALICS for added emphasis... LOL
If you are NOT ll those things that you have been called on this forum, why should I need a warning to "be careful"?
Would you perchance be trying to intimidate people. Mr. Logical Fallacy?
Over the holidays someone posted this comment: "But essentially THRASSY, and him alone has DESTROYED the OWS forum." What are your thoughts about that?
Are you now denying that you are yourself one of those "agents"?
A month ago, without any provocation on my part, you inserted the following comment on one of my older posts :
"WARNING: On this site, I have been called a troll, a psyops capable of mind infiltration, and a government mole because I criticize certain aspects of Occupy. Please, be careful."
You even used ITALICS for added emphasis... LOL
If you are NOT ll those things that you have been called on this forum, why should I need a warning to "be careful"?
Would you perchance be trying to intimidate people. Mr. Logical Fallacy?
Over the holidays someone posted this comment: "But essentially THRASSY, and him alone has DESTROYED the OWS forum." What are your thoughts about that?
I think you're just a stupid conspiracy theorist who's stalking me, and that you're most likely mentally disturbed in more ways than one.
WARNING: On this site, I have been called a troll, a Head Troll, a psyops capable of mind infiltration, and a government mole because I criticize certain aspects of Occupy. Some go as far as to say that I single handedly destroyed this forum. Please, be careful.
Thrasy. Destroyer of Worlds.
Mr. Logical Fallacy usually frowns upon "ad hominem" arguments... such as "stupid" or "mentally disturbed". LOL
Could that be because he is at a loss to provide a straight answer to the three questions I just put to him above :
1 - Are you now denying that you are yourself one of those "agents"?
2 - Why should I need a "warning" to "be careful" (in italics, if you please!)
2 - What are your thoughts about the comment made by owsass a couple of weeks ago: "But essentially THRASSY, and him alone has DESTROYED the OWS forum."
Mr. Logical Fallacy usually frown upon "ad hominem" arguments... such as "stupid" or "mentally disturbed".
Could that be because he is at a loss to provide a straight answer to the three questions I just put to him above :
1 - Are you now denying that you are yourself one of those "agents"?
2 - Why should I need a "warning" to "be careful" (in italics, if you please!)
2 - What are your thoughts about the comment made by owsass a couple of weeks ago: "But essentially THRASSY, and him alone has DESTROYED the OWS forum."
I was stating an opinion, not an argument. You asked me what I thought and I answered you as honestly as I could. I really think that you're nothing but a mentally disturbed conspiracy theorist. You shouldn't ask for my opinion if you can't handle it.
You're probably a schizophrenic with paranoid delusions. This can be treated with the help of a professional. There's no reason for you to keep suffering like this. Get help man. Seriously.
WARNING: On this site, I have been called a troll, a Head Troll, a psyops capable of mind infiltration, and a government mole because I criticize certain aspects of Occupy. Some go as far as to say that I single handedly destroyed this forum. Please, be careful. There are many sick conspiracy theorists on this site who stalk and try to ostracize other members of the forum with their delusional fantasies. These individuals should seek the help of a doctor. They need to be medicated.
Again, Thrasy, instead of answering LOGICALLY my three questions above, you are responding with more "ad hominem" arguments, which you have always decried as LOGICAL FALLACIES...
Now, I am not just "stupid" or "mentally disturbed", thank you very much, but I am "probably a schizophrenic with paranoid delusions." Did you by any chance copy all this directly from your own psychiatric file?
I YOU were a psychiatrist, apparently you would be putting ALL people on this forum who happen to challenge your trolling ON MEDICATIONS: "There are many sick conspiracy theorists on this site who stalk and try to ostracize other members of the forum with their delusional fantasies. These individuals should seek the help of a doctor. They need to be medicated."
How very thoughtful and considerate of you, Thrasy! A regular Dr. Schweitzer you are... the Mother Teresa of this forum! Put everyone on meds!
I for one vote for THRASYCARE.
I thought your questions were rhetorical. No?
Why are you stalking me? Are you fixated by my person? My mind attracts you? Would you like to engage in cybernetic love encounters? A threesome with another alien from my home planet perhaps?
You assume wrongly.
My questions are NOT rethorical at all. They are perfectly rational and require rational answers. For the 3rd time, ANSWER THEM for the benefit of us all on this forum.
As for your sexual fantasies, please save them for a professional. They get PAID for listening to you, we on this forum DO NOT.
If I answer your questions with full honesty, will you stop stalking me as if you were a little girl backstage at a Justin Bieber show?
Give straight answers to my questions (see below), for my benefit and for that of all members of this forum.
As for your bizarre sexual fantasies, as I said before, please save them for a professional. They get PAID to listen to you, we on this forum DO NOT.
"1 - Are you now denying that you are yourself one of those "agents"? 2 - Why should I need a "warning" to "be careful" (in italics, if you please!) 3 - What are your thoughts about the comment made by owsass a couple of weeks ago: "But essentially THRASSY, and him alone has DESTROYED the OWS forum."
Before I answer, I want you to promise that you will stop stalking me like a little girl backstage at a Bieber concert. Make this promise, and I promise to answer your questions will full honesty.
unfortunately i cant reply to your comment below TIOUAISE's "Without a shadow of a doubt, Everyone agrees TIOUAISE is a seriously disturbed and paranoid individual. A man without his meds. The prototype for the next generation of mentally ill conspiracy theorists. The future looks very bleak indeed. Where did America go wrong? How could such a glorious country produce such a failed individual? I assume TIOUAISE will keep stalking me for days to come. He doesn't have a backstage pass, but I'm like Bieber and he's the little girl who'll do anything to keep stalking me. A real creepy guy this TIOUAISE. Real creepy" because you removed the reply option, however i will reply here. I disagree that TIOUAISE is seriously disturbed or a paranoid individual. I would propose that you are seriously disturbed and afraid of people thinking differently than you. I also think you may have control issues.. you are the creep you need the meds and you need to open your mind
I wil certainly NOT make any such promise!
GET HELP for your bizarre sexual fantasies about "little girls" adoring you as their idol... As I said before, please save them for a professional: they get PAID to listen to you, we on this forum DO NOT.
I believe we have all understood that THRASY adamantly REFUSES to answer my 3 perfectly rational questions and that this refusal once again reveals his utter contempt for the users of this forum.
NO WONDER Thrasy was recently accused publicly of "TROLLING" by the Moderator of this forum, "agnosticnixie"! And so, GOOD DAY, Mr. Logical Fallacy, I have much better things to do with the rest of my evening.
Without a shadow of a doubt, Everyone agrees TIOUAISE is a seriously disturbed and paranoid individual. A man without his meds. The prototype for the next generation of mentally ill conspiracy theorists. The future looks very bleak indeed. Where did America go wrong? How could such a glorious country produce such a failed individual?
I assume TIOUAISE will keep stalking me for days to come. He doesn't have a backstage pass, but I'm like Bieber and he's the little girl who'll do anything to keep stalking me. A real creepy guy this TIOUAISE. Real creepy.
You didn't provide context, but if Thras put that in one of his own comments, then I'd say it looks like sarcasm. I don't know how he could put it in anyone else's comment.
Sarcasm? BULLSHIT! Rico, you are trying to defend the Head Troll, and doing a rather poor job of it...
I don't rate Thras as a troll. All I've ever seen him do was try to bat down people posting silly conspiracy theories which are prohibited by the terms of use. He's been playing a kind of poor man's moderator in that regard. Hopefully some of the changes jart is making will eliminate the need.
You will only change my opinion of Thras if you can show me a post where he's acting like a troll. I haven't seen one yet. Can you give me a link to the post ?
LOL
Rico is once again flying to the rescue of Big Daddy Troll, who was recently accused publicly of "TROLLING" by the Moderator of this forum, "agnosticnixie". Don't believe me? LOOK IT UP.
Thrasymaque appears to have "karma" similar to yours and mine. Isn't that supposed to mean something?
Anyway, I offered you the chance to change my opinion, but you're making it hard.
Where do I "look it up" ?
Must I spoonfeed you at every minute? Mama Troll must have spoiled you rotten... DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
I have, and I concluded Thras is not a troll as per my initial comment. You disagreed. I offered to let you change my opinion by showing me an example. You insulted me. I noted Thras's karma appears similar to yours are mine and asked again for an example by which you might convince me. You insulted me again and suggested I go do my own research to try and find a case somewhere in the thousands of comments here showing Thras acting differently than he has in the hundreds of comments from him I have already seen.
I guess you were never really interested in convincing me Thras is a troll.
I'll stick with my original opinion based on experience. Thras is not a troll.
Not only is Thrasy a troll, but he is one of the WORST trolls on this forum. .. and you, Rico, are constantly flying to his rescue, so your opinion of him is of very little value.
If legit users were to vote on the WORST troll on this forum, I strongly suspect that THRASY would win hands down.
He was recently accused publicly of "TROLLING" by the Moderator of this forum, "agnosticnixie".
You, TIOUAISE are constantly attacking him, so your opinion is of very little value.
Users do vote on our behavior. As I understand it, that's what the 'karma' numbers by our name are intended to reflect; they're the product of our posts and the number of times we're liked or disliked. Sure they can be rigged, but he has 2733 of them, similar to your 2654 and my 2922. I've seen some people here with 'karma' down in the negative 100's. Those are the trolls. Us three just move back and forth around agreement/disagreement. Somewhere along the way, someone said saomething offense, and now nobody is willing to let it go and move on.
Can't you two bury the hatchet and start over ? We need an Obama 'reset'
Remember, Rommel and Patton respected each other. They disagreed, but they acknowledged they were fighting a worthy opponent and had grudging respect for each other's skills if not character.
Rico, you are always flying to your master's rescue. Don't waste your breath, we saw through your game ages ago. I you want to obsess on numbers ("karma"), that's your business. I DON'T, because I know all too well that those numbers can be falsified by well-organized trolls such as Thrasy and yourself.
I find no pleasure in confronting Thrasymaque/Glaudon/Adeimantus as publicly as I do on this forum. In fact, I have offered to discuss our differences of opinion "like gentlemen" through private messages, but he adamantly refused. So I am using the only avenue he will accept.
And you will note that I just wrote to Thrasy : "Nobody on this forum is "out to get you". You are probably a good person deep down... It's your ACTIONS that we find offensive and that we so strongly object to."
If you really want to be helpful, Rico... ask Thrasy to respond to the 3 questions I put to him and which he has so far refused to answer:
"1 - Are you now denying that you are yourself one of those "agents"? 2 - Why should I need a "warning" to "be careful" (in italics, if you please!) 2 - What are your thoughts about the comment made by owsass a couple of weeks ago: "But essentially THRASSY, and him alone has DESTROYED the OWS forum".
The more you accuse me of crimes I didn't commit, the less I am moved.
Have you heard the term "self-actualised" ? It relates not only to our treatment of others but to the ability of others to affect our mental state. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization . Note I'm not saying that you or Thras aren't self-actualized, but you two sure don't act like you are. Self-Actualized people don't let other people define their emotional state (don't get 'rattled') and they generally respect others or avoid them if they cannot. They don't have any need to prove themselves, just their arguments, and if someone won't listen, they just walk away.
Thras isn't destroying the forum, the childish conflict is destroying the forum, and it takes two to create conflict. Either side can stop it.
LOL ! It just occured to me that, for all I know you and Thras, are one and the same, and you're just toying with me ! In any case, I gotta go do some work.
You're fixated on me like a young girl on Justing Bieber.
Kiss me you mentally ill conspiracy theorist of a fool! Wait! Let me first shed my human disguise. Have you ever kissed an asexual Reptilian Overlord FBI agent before? Trust me, you'll like it.
Thrasy, we all know about your porn postings and "very" young girl fantasies. By reminding us of them, you are only embarrassing YOURSELF.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/legit-ows-post-best-of-ows-what-are-your-favorite-/#comment-552427
You need rest and you need help. If you really are a married man, talk to your wife and see if you two can come up with a plan that will work.
Nobody on this forum is "out to get you". You are probably a good person deep down... It's your ACTIONS that we find offensive and that we so strongly object to.
Cool! You added a new element to your conspiracy theory - "very" young girl fantasies. Where did you pull that assumption from? Are you on a delusional high because you forgot to eat one of your pills? Damn, you're one sick guy.
She stopped spam, but not trolling. FriendlyObserverA, a.k.a. thraysmkay poster of porn, a.k.a. blackbloc, a.k.a. DunkinDonut, a.k.a. grapes, a.k.a. 1169, a.k.a. .... a million other users on this forum, posted a link to a semi-porn chat site and sexually harassed April earlier today. Enjoy this fascinating thread:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-ows-really-a-voice-for-weak-beta-type-males/#comment-571588
NOTE: The user in question has been banned and the comment linked above deleted. Problem solved for now. Thanks jart.
This rocks. Thanks.
It's about time. I might even start posting again
cool
sweet tnx!
you are so cool you are down right hot!
Whoo Hoo!
wait - wait . . .
karma? did you say comment karma?
Don't I have enough to worry about in my next life already without having to deal with it here too?
: \
heehe
Great! Love the search! Thank You!
Thank you Jart for your hard work and success, and very helpful changes to the FORUM pages.
Just trying to help :)
Loving the new forum, I was just thinking if the forum should be divided into sub groups or if there should be a technical subgroup. Good work on the forum!
That's one thing I've wanted to do for a very long time. It's just been difficult to envision the most eloquent approach.
Yea, they do that over at themultitudes.org , and it doesn't seem to be very effective. It sounds nice, but in reality, the conversations there tend to wander just as they do here, and the categories become pretty meaningless again. I'd recommend only a few very broad categories at most (if at all). Something like news (announcements, events, etc), admin (site suggestions, policies, etc.), and general discussion perhaps ? Beyond these basic categories, I think your ever expanding search capabilities will meet the need in finding what we want.
The problem with themultitude.org is that they don't have the traffic to actually need categories so it just makes the forum cumbersome and complicated. On the other hand we have 31,000 threads and 460,000 comments. We're managing to get by now that we have search and archives, but considering our volume, categories could be an improvement if done correctly.
The only idea I've had so far that I like is sort of similar to yours, except I want to use categories as a way to enforce stricter moderation to get people back on topic. The biggest problem with this forum is that people don't actually talk about the occupy movement. I understand it's difficult for an online community to exist for an offline movement, but still that's supposed to be our entire niche! Why be yet another politics forum? My idea is basically to make the main category occupy related topics only, one for news only, a general category, and maybe a couple others. Thoughts?
I agree the topics here can wander pretty far, but I don't see how you can fix that without a lot of active effort on your part. I think the moderation scheme themultitudes.org proposed was pretty effective in that regard; the small number of moderators would allow heavy users to become moderators after reviewing their posts to ensure they were "fair and balanced" people. Just to be fair, you could require four concurring moderation votes before allowing deletion of a comment or post. Anyway, this would seem to solve the manpower problem associated with moderating so much traffic.
While I agree that we sometimes get off topic, you have to admit it's terribly hard to know what's on-topic for OWS since they refuse to publish what they stand for exactly. Any change that ultimately comes about will have to occur through politics and we are nearing an election, so I don't think you can reasonably expect people to avoid the politics question. I just wish it was more balanced with more discussion of issues than discussion of candidates like AynRand/RonPaul. Such are people I suppose.
I've settled down to advocating only one change: getting the money out of politics. Restoration of our Democracy seems like the prerequisite to all other changes. See my comment at http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-are-your-big-five-issues-things-you-would-cha/#comment-574317 . I spend the rest of my time here educating people and supporting discussions with fact-checks so people are well informed about the issues they're discussing. There's an astonishing amount of what my son calls "social fact" flying around; stuff people heard from another person who heard from someone on twitter that the sky is in fact green rather than blue. Thrasymaque and a few others seem engaged in similar activities to try and raise the general quality of discussion.
The folks that are malicious towards others are almost always those promoting a conspiracy theory of one sort or another or simply come here to be offensive by spouting racists and anti-semitic ideas. The folks that are annoying are those who simply have an agenda to promote and keep spamming the same comment over and over again. I don't think either type will abide by categories. If they did, you could just make one called "Assholes, Idiots, and Jerks" to solve the problem ;o)
Like it or not, you're not running the site for Occupy Wall Street that used to be down in Zuccotti Park, you're running the site for the Occupy movement. Sans any definition of what the movement explicitly stands for, it's terribly difficult to identify what's on or off-topic. All action will be by politics, and there's an election underway, so there will be politics. The really annoying people won't abide by any categories anyway, so they'll still be with us.
Finally, the biggest issue may be that any meaningful structure here will suggest more structure than evident in the GA. Will OWS let you do that ? At some point they're going to figure out this web-site, and you by extension, has more power than the GA ! You're international in scope, they're local, but Victoria Sobel and Pete Dutro own this site (see their trademark at http://tdr.uspto.gov/jsp/DocumentViewPage.jsp?85454550/APP20111027072932/Application/6/24-Oct-2011/sn/false#p=1 ).
I guess in the end, my thoughts are that the categories won't help in proportion the the effort you'd have to put in, and you may run into trouble with the GA and/or the owners of the site at some point. I do like the concept from themultitudes.org to allow promotion of trusted users to moderator so that you can increase moderation effectiveness. These are only my opinions. Perhaps you should post and ask for a wider set of opinions for other users.
The reason it's hard to define this online community is because occupy is an offline movement. But just because it's difficult to tell what's precicely on-topic, it's very clear that certain things are in fact off-topic, like election campaigning.
Here are some documents produced in NYC that have pretty wide support within the movement:
I actually have read all this but in slightly outdated form; I happen to own the book titled "This Changes Everything". I didn't know where to find the material referenced in the book on this site.
The Principles of Solidarity are pretty wide ranging. "Redefining how labor is valued" is an open invitation to debate economic theory here, and "The belief that education is human right" opens up all sorts of question regarding how much and of what type. I find "Endeavoring to practice and support wide application of open source" curious, even though I'm a big fan of open source.
The Statement of Autonomy stresses, "We welcome all, who, in good faith, petition for a redress of grievances through non-violence," so my prior message advocating moderation of people advocating violence would seem appropriate. The Statement also says, "We provide a forum for peaceful assembly of individuals to engage in participatory as opposed to partisan debate and democracy" so all the people in here slamming/advocating republicans/democrats should be off limits. We're supposed to be talking about fixing problems, not candidates and parties.
The Statement of Autonomy also says, "We welcome dissent." That's good, because I find a lot I disagree with in the Declaration of the Occupation. I don't disagree with the problems, I disagree that we fully understand who the "they" is. In some cases, I think "they" is "us."
"Everyone has the Right to Occupy Space, Safely" simply says what I hope is accepted by everyone here. People who argue against that may be citizens of the USA, but they are not Americans. Our values define who we are, not our residence, and American values include respect and tolerance. I can't say for sure, but I think that's generally true of most civilized nations and people who come here.
An interesting approach to organizing the forum might be to make each one of the items in the Declaration a "hot link" to a discussion area. Alternatively, I'm thinking of generating a post with each statement as a comment then invite folks to comment further under each. That would help focus us, I think. Has that already been done ?
That's a really cool idea.
Which ? Do you want to try and do it as hot links off the Declaration or should I do it with a post and comments ? I suppose I could do the post thing and you could later move the comments to hot linked areas. Let me know.
Either way, I think this might get these on-line forums better connected to what's happening on the ground. If I were in the GA, in fact, I would use these forums to get a wider range of inputs from a broader cross-section of the movement.
I'm probably the only one that feels this way, but I like the free flow of ideas. Broad categories might be ok (I think you can somewhat get that now with the search function), but many topics overlap. I like the way conversations start in one place and go in different directions sometimes. If you're not interested, you can easily scroll on down, or back out. Ideas spark other ideas and issues overlap other issues. I think it makes it more interesting.
I like freely flowing information too. That's why we're not using phpBB or vBulliten which try to clamp everything down into neat little filing cabinets. I really just want to find a way to have more occupy and less election 2012 on this forum.
A lot of people aren't going to like it, but you could filter out use of any candidate name, party name, and so forth so it's a bit difficult to discuss the election. If you stole the idea from themultitudes and let some users help moderate, you could maybe just have these words flag the post/comment for review by a moderator group for consensus review. I know folks get nervous about moderators, but I don't see any other way to get this place a bit more focused, and you're going to need manpower (person-power?). We need you doing what you do best... coding.
Note, by the way, that I'm not volunteering to serve on a moderation group, at least not yet. Even if I was, and you wanted me to do so, I have a lot of work I have to do for my capitalist masters starting Monday, I'm already a bit behind because I spend too much time here, especially after all your neat changes. In any case, if you do go down this path, nobody should know who is serving on the moderation group.
The only way this will ever happen is if you stipulate in a very clear manner what this forum is for, and if the moderators consistently delete postings that break the forum rules. For example, conspiracy theories are against the forum rules, but they seem to be tolerated by the moderators. If I were you, I would create a few sticky posts that clearly explain what users are to expect. One of them could be the forum rules, the others could be suggestions for on-topic discussions. You'll also have to find a way to bridge the gap between the movement in the streets, and what's being talked about online. The only way this will happen is if the protesters in the street become active posters on here.
As for categories, you should implement them like Vanilla does. Keep the main page like it is with all the posts bubbling up. When users create a posting, they can choose a category. This category is indicated in the posts that bubble up, and it's also possible to filter by category. This way, I can see everything that's bubbling, or I can use a filter to see only one category that's bubbling. Using folders like PHPBB is old school and extremely annoying. Don't do that please. Check out Vanilla.
Yea that was another thing I was thinking about, the possibility of making the main category an "all" category, so you don't have to use categories if you don't want to. I'm also generally a fan of software updates that are non-disruptive (like for instance not being like Facebook and issuing completely life changing updates lol)
You make an excellent point.
Never :) phpBB is sooo 2003
As for vanilla, I've seen it before and it's quite lovely. I wish it ran on Django.
I advocated she borrow the method they use over at themultitudes.org . They allow heavy users to be promoted to moderators (presumably after sufficient review of their fairness), and that technique could help handle the moderating workload. I suggested perhaps she could identify a number of moderators and require they all agree before a post is deleted to make sure nobody gets too heavy handed. The posts over at themultitudes.org all have a report button, and she could feasibly make it so that button notified the moderators.
That's sort of how the mods have been running the chatroom if I remember correctly. But to be honest that really isn't my call to make. I'm not a mod and try my best to stay out of the specifics so I can focus on the software because I trust the judgement of the people who are mods.
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Thank you.
The forum looks and operates really well. I have enjoyed my time here, good work!
Like fairies and goblins, Karma doesn't exist :)
That's great work. Now , perhaps, it might be time to start actively moderating the site to get people to comply with its rules:
No racism, no conspiracy theories, etc.
Hopefully, soon, we won't have to wade through that kind of garbage in order to get to talk about OWS related issues.
The bayesian filter is going to free up a lot of time for the moderators to do exactly that. We also recruited a few extra people who are still in the process of becoming more active and learning the ropes.
But we also ask the users to do their part in helping by emailing when you see flat out violation of the rules and using the dislike button to bury evil content.
Thank you, Jart. That's exactly what I was hoping for.
If I may use this opportunity to add one suggestion: The link to report abuse should show up either at the top of every page or near the "reply" button of every post, as it does in most other internet fora.
I realize that could create a flood of complaints, many downright silly, but would also relieve Mods of having to read through every single comment of every single thread.
Again, thank you.
Yea a report button would be ideal :)
Hello again, Jart.
Short of my "report button" suggestion, which might require a little coding (probably just a teensy bit, but still....) I would be very useful to add Thrasymaque's tip above to the rules page. That way, when someone does read those rules, he or she would have the info needed to take action if necessary. That wouldn't need code to do: it would be little more than simple cut-and-paste.
At the very least, it would provide an interim solution.
Done
wizards uses one and it helps a lot
TIP: When you send a complaint to abuse@occupywallst.org, you should always include the offending comment's permalink so that the moderators don't have to hunt for it. Click "permalink" under the offending comment. This will highlight the comment in yellow and give you a URL that leads directly to it. This URL will be given in your browser's address bar. Copy it, and paste in your complaint email. For example, the permalink to your comment above is:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-forum-features/#comment-573579
Notice the end of the URL (#comment-573579).
As for your suggestion of having report links, I fully agree with you. This would make it even easier.
Thanks, Thrasymaque.
That's very helpful.
Where does one find a list of codes so that images may be posted in the forum, or different font types or font sizes.... that sort of thing. I have looked everywhere and have found no help FAQ.
bensdad would be the one to PM for this info. A PM would be better. Not everyone should have the ability to post images. Thrashy pretty much ruined that late last year.
Thanks.
Just going to post this here since this is where I noticed that you could have descriptive links in comments (and lists, etc.)
key words: Hyperlink ! URL ! link ! html code ! markup ! how to !
http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown
Would have been much easier if I just searched for all of jart's posts in this thread... I ended up going through the source code looking for where it converted to HTML.
sort search results by date, best match, etc.
give each thread its own karma.
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excellent work
and this is the first I've seen of it ?
that is useful
looks like vinyl Valhalla categories
.
I'm not understanding this nofollow hyperlink on the forums
people can click on a link
.
what is the dating format ?
Google a tutorial on 'markdown'
Now if you could only do something about the new AM 960 format...Can't believe they moved Thom Hartman and Steff Miller to late night and Glen Beck gets the morning spot?!? Maybe it's because OWS has the 1% worried. Maybe we need to occupy KNEW!
Maybe because Glenn only makes sense to people who are half asleep.
Good point. LoL
The movement was made because of Beck's super high ratings and that always takes authority
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Good Lord, This is my third try at making sense of what's going on here on OWS. "Trolls", "Infiltrators", "lurkers",.. Man, you can have it. I'm out of here. Gotta find people that live in the real world. Good luck.
If you're leaving I'll help you resist the temptation to come back. Happy ban.
Hard but fair. You should be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWMoeQR1LJ8&feature=related & thanx for all you do here :-) pax et lux ...
Thanks <3
search button is missing
hit the return button
[-] 1 points by jart (690) from Brooklyn, NY 1 month ago
Also the comment / post history on user profiles is in the works :)
good news
sort by post count ?
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The meta description is generated programmatically from the post content. You can use begin synopsis / end synopsis html comments if you want to tweak how your forum post appears in search engines.
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Also the comment / post history on user profiles is in the works :)
Thanks ... again ! You're awesome !
Wonderful. Two small suggestions:
Search box is now easier to see :)
I'm uncertain about removing the karma thing. I generally agree with you, but it does help people see who's active in the community and gives more incentive to moderate comments through the like/dislike buttons.
The search box is better.
These points are useless and demotivate new comers. They have nothing to do with the like dislike feature which should be used to moderate the immediate comment, not moderate the user's points which have been accumulated throughout the history of his actions on the forum. Again, we should vote the arguments, not the proposer.
These points really bother me so I'll just use a modified version of the CSS file to hide them. I don't want them to influence me in any way. It's almost subconscious. I want my voting to be based solely on the comment.
The point thing is a feature creep and that's why it's hard for you to remove it. ;-)
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I didn't down vote anything here. It was FriendlyObserverA who's on a trolling spree. Ask the moderators to verify his IP and the voting that has been done on this page.
I doubt that. There have been three people with many user accounts that actually trolled this forum. nucleus disappeared around the same time the oows.org site went down, John is to angry to do something as time consuming as using the votes to annoy people. But annoying and petty is exactly inline with your MO.
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If it made me "so unhappy", I wouldn't be here day in day out. I criticize the things I love because I want them to be the best that they can be. I don't bother criticizing the stuff I hate or don't care for.
Look at you! You don't even have a 1000 points and you were here before me. Nah! Lame. Wait.... What does it matter... Do you think it matters? 1000 points that's pretty low... hmmm.... But, really, does it matter or not?
You're right. I don't. I have a start-up to run, just launched my new CMS. I have other thing to do than worry about points on a forum.
What's your CMS?
it's a dual interface web-based CMS. The details are on my site, URL on my occupywallst.org profile. I gave it a generic name "E1", I just don't have the imagination for good naming :P
Cool good luck with that :)
I don't like to toot my own horn, but I'm always a step ahead of richard. My CMS has a triple interface and it's not limited to a web-based functionality. More importantly, it comes equipped with a strong A.I. that can write modules and plugins for you. This A.I. works at human speed. It pushes code on Github at a pace you could expect from a normal human coder. This way, you can still charge a high price to your clients. Nobody needs to know that you're drinking martinis with your friends while your little A.I. friend is coding for you ;-)
For obvious reasons, I call it E2.
Thx, I need it. Really tired of cooking for a living.
She was being sarcastic.
I've never been given reason to believe so. Your word however....
I'm a programmer. I understand what she's thinking.
And I'm the easter bunny.
In English please.
You know where my site is. It's not like you haven't seen it before. It's been redesigned since. It's more salesmanish now and set for the new release.
I'm using your trick of talking under collapsed comments.
I have prepared a draft moderation post that I'd like your help with. Once we're happy with the information and wording, I'd like to solitic your help in keeping it 'bumped' up at the top of the forum so people always know where to find information on reporting abuse. The draft post is below, likely titled "How to Request Moderation/Report Abuse."
This forum is provided using funding from OWS contributions with the specific intent of furthering the objectives and effectiveness of OWS. It is not a forum for general discussion or a public space. It is an OWS resource, and the rights of users are limited to ensure the forum is effective. It's not free, and neither are you; it costs precious funding, and you are a guest invited to participate per OWS rules.
The forum does not tolerate behavior that violates the OWS Principles of Solidarity at http://www.nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity/ . These principles prohibit racism, sexism, anti-antisemitism, slander of a faith, or other offensive speech. These principles apply to Occupiers, and they apply here as well. They are the core on which the movement is founded, and any post or comment that violates them should be immediately reported for moderation.
The forum cannot tolerate advocacy of specific candidates because it is funded largely by non-profit money and because doing so violates the Statement of Autonomy at http://www.nycga.net/resources/statement-of-autonomy/ . This statement is more than a convenience for tax-free status, it is a founding principle. Forum users may discuss political solutions to the problems of the 99% such as proposed changes to laws, amendments and so forth, but they may not advocate for or against candidates or parties. This is particularly difficult when elections of great import are underway, but users must restrain themselves from discussing candidates, campaigns, and so forth. Users who insist on discussing politics should be noted, and a brief list of their offending posts submitted for moderation.
The forum is provided to augment the OWS movement by allowing discussion, refinement, education, strategies, and actions related to the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City at http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/ and other matters of import to the well-being of the 99%. While the moderators generally allow great latitude in discussion, they will step in when a user consistently steps off-topic, generates spam, or otherwise distracts from constructive dialog furthering OWS aims. Rehashing of old conspiracy theories already addressed in great depth elsewhere on the Internet such as those surrounding 9/11, ancient brotherhoods, banking cabals established in ancient times, etc. are considered off-topic and will be moderated. These theories have been explored over and over without resolution, and they are a distraction from the purpose of this forum. Users who are repeatedly off-topic should be reported with a brief list of their offending posts or comments for moderation.
To request moderation, you must first obtain the url of the offending comment(s) or post(s). If it is an offensive post, then it's address is in your browser address bar. If it is a comment, then click the "permalink" field below the comment, and that will cause your browser to show the comments url in it's address bar. Copy and paste these addresses for use in the moderation request.
Once you have the url(s), you are ready to report the abuse to a moderator. The proper way to do this is to e-mail your complaint to abuse@occupywallst.org . Alternatively, you may get a response if you send it directly via a private message to a moderator such as agnosticnixie via her profile page at http://occupywallst.org/users/agnosticnixie/
The moderators are very busy, and their effectiveness is reduced by excessive requests for moderation. Only request moderation when the need is clear. Note that moderation may not occur for some time, and the moderator may disagree with the need to intervene. They will likely take not of users over-sensitive users who request excessive moderation, so don't go there. Be sure.
Now go change the world. Go on. Do it.