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Forum Post: LET'S GET REAL FOR A MOMENT: Here is why Occupy DC is about to WIN. If you care about this country, please read this post. A nonviolent revolution to protect our nation from its corpopolitical hijackers is unfolding before our eyes & can't be stopped.

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 4, 2012, 4:03 p.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Look, you can't evict an idea.  Despite all the noise to the contrary (some of it the product of an organized paid effort) people in the U.S. know exactly what Occupy Movement stands for:  getting the money out of politics and correcting the dramatic and widening the enormous income disparity in this nation.   Just like in South Africa with Mandela, just like India with Gandhi and just like the U.S. with Martin Luther King, Jr., this house of cards with the few ruling over the many can't stand.  The smart among the 1% know this all too well and are preparing to / offering to give up some of their wealth in the name of economic fairness.

You can't evict an idea, especially an idea whose time has come.  As someone who used to work on Capitol Hill and has recently spent time with half a dozen members of congress, I am well aware of the reality that is setting in in DC:   This situation where Citizens United supreme court decision allows corporations to buy elections WILL NOT STAND.   Make no mistake:  a constitutional amendment effectively overturning Citizens United supreme court decision will be passed.

DC officials are making an enormous tactical error giving into weak but vocal republican whining about people camping in the park.  For every protester they push out, ten or a hundred more will take their place this spring.   If they wish to poke at the hornets nest, they can.  But they should look to the history of the civil rights movement and Gandhi's success in India to understand the sting this beautiful collective of nonviolent bees will have.  

So, to those controlling the decision-making here, I say "Go ahead and piss members of the movement off more.  It only makes us stronger.  The more middle America sees their own being pushed around for nonviolently demanding the government be accountable to its people instead of corporations, the stronger the movement gets.  The nonviolent direct action this spring will overwhelm you with its power and force.  We know you have no idea what to do with non-violence and that is why we will most certainly prevail."

This isn't about overthrowing a government.   Occupiers love this country.  This is about restoring this country by removing the corporate terrorists who have hijacked our government.  Make no mistake.  We will remain nonviolent.  And we will restore the power of one person one vote.  We are the 99% and we're not going anywhere.  The 1% will be treated with love and respect but they also will no longer be permitted to rule selfishly.  This house of cards is about to come down as a result of nonviolent tactical actions.

Occupy DC, stay strong as an organization.  The nonviolent cavalry is coming.  As Martin Luther King, Jr. Said so eloquently, "Truth crushed to earth rises up."

Corpopolitical contractors.  Do what you will.  Nothing can stop an idea whose time has come.  Nothing.   As Breyton Breytonbach said before being sentenced to prison for his nonviolent protest activities: "Whether we win or whether we die, freedom will rise like the sun through the morning clouds."

When the GA's decide it's time for a large direct action, here is one specific plan we might want to consider: http://occupywallst.org/forum/fresh-thread-forum-post-below-received-over-2000-c/ . For now, though, smaller actions are more advisable to grow numbers.

128 Comments

128 Comments


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[-] 20 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The Occupy Wall Street movement has already won. The day Corporate America unleashed it's goons to evict Americans pursuing their First Amendment rights from Liberty Park, was the day the Patriotic Mask of Wall Street was removed, and the road to Victory was sealed.

Like Gettysburg, during the Rebellion, and Midway during World War II, this war might go on for another year or so, but It's all over but the shout. The more they wiggle & squirm, the easier they will be to crush. OWS has the truth on their side, and the world is really watching. There is nothing they can do to win this fight now.

We are witnessing the Crumbling of the Conservative movement in America. They can only be successful if people buy their lies. OWS has exposed their lies to the light of day, and you can't put that Genie back in the bottle. You have a tough time being believed, when people know you're lying.

Ask the Komen Foundation about that!

[-] 5 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I like the way you think.

[-] 5 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I think therefore I am a Democrat!

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[-] 4 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I keep returning to this comment and and I appreciate it more each time.

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Thanks. I try,because the Truth will set us all free!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Keep up the great work!

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You too!

[-] 2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I like everything you say, except the reference to Conservatives. The OWS movement is not about conservative versus liberal, it is about RIGHT versus WRONG, FAIR versus UNFAIR. By putting our message truthfully out in that manner, we put ourselves above partisan politics even more, and we then have the chance to reach out into the center, and center/right in the political spectrum.

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

While I can understand the value of seeming to be neutral, the fact of the matter is that we live in a partisan world. And, in a partisan world you have to choose a side. I'm hoping we choose wisely.

Non-Violent action only works when it's aimed at the enemy! Attacking your Friends is not just counter productive, it is in my opinion, stupid. And the people of OWS are far from stupid.

OWS speaks for the 99%, Conservatives are the agents of the 1% is that not true? Why try to hide that? OWS did not choose this fight, but when you are under attack I believe that there is value in clearly identifying the people who are attacking you.

I don't know how much more evidence you need to see to understand that The Conservatives are clearly against everything that OWS stands for, and the Liberals are just as clearly on OWS's side. What is the value in ignoring that? Do you think you can change their minds by playing nice with them???

You may not want to admit it, but it is the Conservative movement that has been waging a stealth campaign to destroy the American dream, and it is the Conservative movement that is doing everything it can to destroy OWS. Why should we keep that quiet.

I agree that It is about RIGHT vs. WRONG, and the Conservatives are the ones who are wrong. It is about FAIR Vs. UNFAIR, but it is the Conservatives who are being UNFAIR, while the Liberals are fighting for Fairness! Can't you see that?

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Although I lean far left; I believe Thomas Paine's word should be heeded:

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach into himself.

Additionally, the left get their money from the same people as the right do. Neither side represents "The People". The lesser of two evils is still evil.

Don't forget - The Dems are the ones that extended the bush tax cuts for the rich for 2 yrs while controlling the house, senate, and WH.

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

If you believe that both parties are the same, then you have no hope for change, and that means that the 1% wins. But, there is a difference!

When you criticize Washington over money, we must not forget that there are Politicians who take Corporate money, and do their bidding, and there are Statesmen who take Corporate cash and do what’s right for the Country. There is a difference.

Calling out Conservatives for their policies is not an oppression. It is speaking truth to Power!

The Dems extended the Bush Tax Cuts to save Social Security & Medicare. They will never do it again. I would call that fighting FOR the "People."

Conservatives on the other hand, don't just want to extend the Disatrous Bush Tax Cuts, they want to lower them. Forgive me if I call that NOT working for the people. There is a difference.

Lastly, only on paper did the Dems control the House and the Senate in the first two years. They needed 2 Independents to get to a Fillibuster proof Majority in the Senate, and one of them was Tail Gunner Joe Liebermen. (Rember him?)

So, they only had 58 votes from the start. And, when you count Dems like Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln they really only had 53 votes they could count on. They have even less than that now.

In the House, if you were paying attention during the Health Care debate, they couldn't count on any Conservative Dems to vote with them. Remember how they held up the whole thing to get some BS Abortion language in the Bill. They bearly had a majority when it really counted.

So, while on paper the President controlled the WH, the Senate, and the House, and Conservatives love to point that Half-Truth out, the political reality was that, he only controlled the WH, and the House, some of the time, for the first 2 years That is what I won't forget.

Stop with the leaning, and get off the frence. There is a difference!

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

The extension of the bush tax cuts had nothing to do with SS or Medicare.

After almost a week of negotiations between an administration team led by Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and budget director Jack Lew, Obama announced last night he’ll accept a deal that would extend current tax rates for high- income taxpayers for "Two More Years" in exchange for extending federal unemployment insurance for the long-term jobless and cutting the payroll tax by $120 billion for "One Year".

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-06/payroll-tax-holiday-on-the-table-as-negotiators-debate-bush-rate-extension.html

Both side are bought and paid for by the same people; for the same reasons; to achieve the same goals. The rest is smoke and mirrors for your entertainment.

The concentrating [of powers] in the same hands is precisely the definition of despotic government. It will be no alleviation that these powers will be exercised by a plurality of hands, and not by a single one. Thomas Jefferson

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

So let's keep the partisan wars going and forget about the good of the movement. I could easily continue to argue this with you, but we know that neither of us would change the other's mind. Anyway I am not here to divide this noble campaign that we are both on, and I appreciate that you are on the same side, and have the same goal, a better country. Let's just leave it at that.

[-] 3 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Sorry. I am not the one who is trying to divide this movement. Conservative Partisans are. They are the same Folks who pre-empted the Tea Party, and now they are trying to infiltrate OWS in a vain attempt to keep folks from exercising their opinions at the Ballot Box.

I warned OWS six months ago that they would be the target of a well organized disnformation campaign that is intended to suppress the vote in 2012 by pushing the idea that both Parties are the same. There is a difference, and that difference is obvious to anyone who cares about this country.

The only way to deal with a LIE is to expose it to a beacon of truth. All I do is tell the truth. I am sorry that you can't seem to be able to handle that.

I agree to leave it at that.

[-] -2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Yes I agree to leave it, and I will ignore your little synopsis at the end too.

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Why am I not surprized that you would ignore the truth! Can you spell Quisiling???

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

No, but I can spell SURPRISED.

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[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Our goal of making this a country that lives up to the ideals of the people is the same. We have had so much partisan bickering in the past, and I simply don't want this to devolve into a partisan campaign. We are on a noble campaign, and although we may have to deploy ignoble methods to get to our goal, our message should be about hope, not more of the same. We agree on the goal, just not on the method on how we get there. That;s all.

[-] 3 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Please forgive me if I point out that it is the Conservatives that engage in Partisan Bickering. The President has been trying to reason with the other side for 3 years, and has been met with viscious acrimony! When you start a fight, you should be ready for people to defend themselves.

I come from hunger, and I don't believe in turning the other cheek when somebody smacks me. You kick me in the nuts, and don't get mad when I kick you back. It aint "Partisan Bickering" when you're fighting for the heart & soul of your Country. Where I come from if you don't start no stuff, there will be no stuff!

Conservatives started this Class War, so don't get on my case if I fight back! What goes around comes around. Turn about is fair play. There is a God, Karma is a Bitch, and you really do reap what you sow.

BTW, It is far too late in the game to hope that there will be no Partisan Campaign. How will you avoid that when one side insists on being Partisan?

[-] 2 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 2 years ago

The beauty of it is we know now more than ever who they are:

They are the 1%

This movement has made that fact clear so we will not have to endure their lies about that any longer. We are clear!!!

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I agree! Like I always say, it's hard to eat a load of crap, when you know it's crap.

I have a lot of faith in my fellow Americans. The arrogant greed of the 1% will be their downfall. OWS tugged on Superman's Cape, and we all can see that the Emperor has no clothes!

Must be cold out there, when you have to sleep with Newts, and use Mittens to keep you warm!!! I'm just saying.

[-] 1 points by ComeTogetherNOW (650) 2 years ago

LoL on the Newts and Mittens...

We're not going anywhere. We're on solid ground!

[-] 1 points by Quark (236) 2 years ago

OWS has not won anything. As much as I wish they had, I don't think your thinking is accurate, but more wishful. They may be 1% but they have a lot of workers & goons to do their bidding & millions of more who would sell out just to join them or lick their shoes. OWS has a lot of problems getting it together. Here is to you being right one day.

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[-] 6 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

WONDERFUL WORDS, inspirational and eloquently spoken. Congratulations on a great post therising!!!

I too have tried to provide words of encouragement to the movement here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/words-of-encouragement-for-the-occupy-movement/

One suggestion -- don't refer to the movement as being composed of "kids" as in "... kids being pushed around...". According to Wikipedia, the average age of Occupy members is 33 -- hardly kids. Some are in their 40s, I have talked to others on these forums who are in their 50s (I am 56). This movement affects ALL concerned Americans regardless of age and other demographics. Yes, most of the front-line protesters are more toward the younger side of the spectrum. But it may hurt the credibility of the movement if the general population that is observing Occupy in the media comes to the incorrect conclusion that Occupy is just a bunch of youthful, idealistic, radical "kids" instead of who we all really are -- American citizens deeply concerned about the future of this country.

[-] 5 points by geminijlw (176) from Mechanicsburg, PA 2 years ago

I am 63, so watch it. It is all of us, all ages, all people, remember we are the 99%, black or white, red or yellow, young or old, middle aged, and over the hill like me. But we will remain together, and will succeed, and make a better world.

[-] 4 points by BearDickinson (125) from Ewing, VA 2 years ago

so true, geminijlw i am 58 - my first arrest - 1969 at university of virginia - age 15 - students for a democratic society - am i ancient or what ? BTW sds is arisen ! http://www.newsds.org/

[-] 5 points by geminijlw (176) from Mechanicsburg, PA 2 years ago

Bravo, and if we threaten war with Iran I will be living in a tent in Washington. I regret not protesting against the Iraq war, and look what it cost us and the citizens of Iraq. We will win this one, and am proud of all who occupy.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I totally agree. 100%

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Awesome

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Finer words have never been written.

[+] -4 points by Loserville (-13) 2 years ago

If you're the 99%, how come turn-outs are minuscule even in our largest cities? How come the protesters are mostly just grubby 20-somethings and lifelong leftist agitators? How come almost NO ONE mentions crazies like Noam Chomsky other than Occupados?

You're 63. Didn't you get enough of this nonsense in the 60's? Haven't you figured out by now that nothing is free and that if you borrow money, you should pay it back? You know, the simply stuff that occupy people have yet to learn.

[-] 3 points by geminijlw (176) from Mechanicsburg, PA 2 years ago

My husband died of agent organge, so I guess I am against any war, that is brought by governments on people, not by the people. We are not just 20 somethings, and tomorrow we plan a unified front at our state capitol. There are many people behind us, look at the amount of people responding in NY and Oakland. Right now it is to inform people, get the involved, and it is not nonsensem it is heros standing up against those that run our government to benefit themselves. You might get informed, instead of pointing fingers, it might change your mind. But, you can say anything you want, and they can evict us all, but the idea and the movement will not stop because of this. It will only get stronger. Some day you might wish you had joined us, instead of throwing out derrogatory statements.

[-] -3 points by Loserville (-13) 2 years ago

Great, be against war, but be sure to tell our enemies.

Unified front? Front of what? A group of assorted misfits? The turn-outs are minuscule compared to the populations of the areas involved. Doesn't that seem odd for something claiming to represent nearly anyone? Shouldn't a rational person call bullshit and know that it's just a tiny fringe that's been there all along? It's the same old goofs that were in the Progressive Student Organization at school, that believe in giant entitlement states (paid for by someone else), and that feel a need to belong to something... anything.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Fixed it

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

:-)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Please let me know if you see me slip on that or anything else. I appreciate the help :)

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Sure, no problem.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Cool

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Excellent point. I completely agree and I'm lad you pointed that out. I'll fix it in my post. Will also check out yours in a moment.

[-] 6 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

Well written,thanks!

[-] 8 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

We must rise up nonviolently. This is our time. This house of cards cannot stand. We must defend our great nation with tactical nonviolence to expose the trickery of the corporate thugs who have hijacked our excellent political system.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4835) 2 years ago

Hi therising, Thank you for post. Best Regards, Nevada

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Cheers Nevada. Thanks for your encouragement. Right back at ya.

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

Amen ,You know now,why other countries love USA

[-] 5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

This is my favorite part: So, to those controlling the decision-making here, I say "Go ahead and piss members of the movement off more. It only makes us stronger. The more middle America sees its kids being pushed around for nonviolently demanding the government be accountable to its people instead of corporations, the stronger the movement gets. The nonviolent direct action this spring will overwhelm you with its power and force. We know you have no idea what to do with non-violence and that is why we will most certainly prevail."

[-] 6 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

The 1% have occupied our hearts and minds for to long with their pollution, materialist nihilism. For too long this nihilism has made us feel hopeless. For too long that hopelessness and accompany emptiness has led us to fill that hole by buying their products. We allowed ourselves to be transformed and devolved from citizens into consumers but now that delusion is ending.

We are human beings. We are rising. And nothing can stop 99% of the nation taking their country back from the hijackers that are the 1% and their minions. If we remain true to active nonviolent resistance and engage in coordinated forceful tactical action , nothing can stop us. We are by definition too large to control.

We are the 99% and we are rising. We, the 99%, are now focusing more on what we have in common rather than what divides us. As a result, we will begin making decisions from a position of united power rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

Viva la revolution. Americans are rising nonviolently with direct action to save this great nation from corporate terrorists.

[-] 5 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Good post!

[-] 6 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

It's time for humanity to rise nonviolently with direct action against corpopolitical machine.

[-] 4 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

Nice.

[-] 7 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

We can do this. Once we focus more on what we have in common rather than what divides us, we will be able to make decisions from a position of unified power rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

[-] 4 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 2 years ago

Great post. Thanks!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Please spread the word that non-violent direct action is the most powerful form of resistance. The 1% don't know what to do with nonviolence. They look bad whether they stand by and let people block the entrances or whether they hogtie them and drag them off. They are befuddled by nonviolent tactics. Gene Sharp's books are a must read. So are books on nonviolence of King and Gandhi.

[-] 5 points by Progression (143) 2 years ago

I agree, non-violence is the way to go. It would be their mistake to continue ignoring OWS or violently responding to non-violent protests.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree wholeheartedly.

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[-] 3 points by geminijlw (176) from Mechanicsburg, PA 2 years ago

I love these sentiments, and it makes me stronger. I am an occuupier in a state close to DC and was there on the 17th. It inspired me. We could all send a thank you to Rep Darryll Issa from California. He might have used his power against Oakland too. We really should send him an email or call and thank him for making us stronger.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Right on!

[-] 3 points by 1169 (204) 2 years ago

Hear Hear

Well said therising, I'm with you, "us", power to the people!

[-] 4 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Occupy DC needs us behind them in every way. They are the tip of out nonviolent direct action spear at this precise moment. We need to put as much of the nonviolent force and tactical non violent energy and strategy behind them as we can. Please spread the word of what is happening in DC. We must let the nation know that its patriots, its sons and daughters, the sons and daughters of the poor, the sons and daughters of middle America are defending our rights and nonviolently standing up for this nation. Those sons and daughters of the poor, those sons and daughters of middle America need us. They need us to rise with them.

[-] 4 points by 1169 (204) 2 years ago

Yes

thats another thing I like about this forum, links to petisions which I selectively sign I have emailed my congressman and legislatures. Thank you for your efforts, lets keep fighting

[-] 3 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 2 years ago

~Great Post~

[-] 8 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

This is one hell of a great country. Our founders, despite their numerous flaws, came up with an elegant system. That system is just as beautiful as it ever was. The problem, obviously, is that it's been hijacked by corporate interests. The Citizens United supreme court decision is certainly the most egregious example but clearly it is only the latest in a long line of assaults on our republic.

This will not stand. We have a beautiful system, an elegant horse. All we need to do is remove the rider who has stolen this beautiful horse. The rider's removal is now a foregone conclusion. This movement is now unstoppable. The jig is up. 1% cannot rule over 99%. This cannot stand. "Truth crushed to earth rises up."

As the Rastafarian poet Bongo Jerry put it:

"Sooner or later but mus', the dam is going to bus' And everyone will break out.
Who will stop them? The force? What force can stop a river of people who know their course?"

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I agree. We have a GREAT country with a GREAT history of accomplishment. Although a great deal of it has been built upon the blood, sweat, and tears of the common man/woman, the great social movements of this country cannot be ignored. They are historical FACTS! Movements do change the very nature of the social fabric. ALL of them began as visions in the mind of a minority that gained momentum and led to fundamental change for the good of the country, for the good of ALL.

This country needs to finish what the Founding Fathers started. They focused on a socio-political framework that developed into the Constitution because their focus was in the creation of a new Republic. We now need to plan, develop, and pass into law an Economic Constitution and Economic Bill of Rights (like FDR was trying to do before he died). These fundamental Economic documents need to be based on principles of Economic Democracy, just as our socio-political Constitution is based upon principles of Political Democracy.

Then, and only then, will we live in a country that is truly free and democratic, a country built upon principles of equality for ALL it's citizens that transcends the limitations of our Founding Fathers vision. Had they known then what has now come to pass, they would have taken steps to include Economic Democracy into the framework they developed. Not in their wildest imaginations could they have envisioned that such great disparity between the classes would arise.

Thomas Jefferson was well aware of the natural development of things when he wrote to Henry Lee in 1824:

"Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise, depository of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, ...Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still, and pursue the same object. The last appellation of aristocrats and democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all."

The American Aristocracy is now concerned. Occupy has their attention. Let us press on and finish the work that our conscience dictates must be completed, for the betterment of ALL the citizens of this country and, by example, the world.

[-] 4 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Beautifully said. Just perfect. I'm in. All of it, especially "We now need to plan, develop, and pass into law an Economic Constitution and Economic Bill of Rights (like FDR was trying to do before he died)." Incredibly, the countries that lost the war ended up with many of those rights you mention because it was members of FDR's team were among those who help draft the constitutions for those conquered countries.

This is just incredible. You couldn't make this stuff up.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

You excelled youself on that post-very nice.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Thank you for your kind words. They are appreciated.

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[-] 2 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

"The times, they are a-changin"

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Yes they are :)

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

this whole thread is fantastic... ;)

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Thanks for reading and spreading the word. The momentum is with us. It's going to be a beautiful springtime in America. The people are rising.

[-] 2 points by abin22 (15) 2 years ago

Right on we are the people we are the power of change.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Now it's time to change how this country works by getting the $ put of politics.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

This forum is rising in its level of discourse!

[-] -2 points by owsrebel1984 (-1) 2 years ago

When one person does all the writing and posting, I guess you could call that rising, or you could also call in a plumber to flush the toilet.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You may not be able to evict an idea, but a poorly executed movement might destroy an otherwise good protest.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree that strategic action is necessary. But I believe the movement has done amazingly well since it's only been in motion since September. I'm kind of a perfectionist so I of course have a whole list of things I'd do differently, but I think now and then it's important to just take a step back and realize how incredible the worldwide reach of this movement has been. We have changed the entire conversation and Americans are awakening.

Do we have a lot of work to do? Hell yes! Do we need to be vigilant about nonviolence. Definitely. Have there been tactical missteps, miscalculations and other flaws? Of course. But overall, this movement is off to an amazing start.

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[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Let's push hard with nonviolent direct action on Feb 29th.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

whats wrong with overthrowing a government, there is an implication that it is somehow bad, in the declaration of independence, it states that we the people have the right to abolish a government if it fails to work for us. (another example of brainwashing in society)

[-] 8 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

We have a wonderful country. Many have sacrificed much to defend our freedom. We haven't earned the right to trash it. We have instead inherited the responsibility to nonviolently defend it. Our political system is an elegant one but it has been hijacked. It is not our system that must be addressed nonviolently. It is the corporate interests who have done the hijacking that must be addressed nonviolently. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The reason we have a Great country is because we have the right to Trash it. That's what Freedom of speech is all about, and that's what we inherited.

The problem is that the people had no Microphone till OWS started doing Mic. Checks! It's all over but the shout now.

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[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

i think america is a great country but i just wish the people in it would leave.

[-] 1 points by 1169 (204) 2 years ago

of course its great, its just being mismanaged right now, too many brave people fought for its greatness being preserved.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Manyany many people have fought hard to preserve this freedom and our job is to continue that legacy now with Occupy Wall Street movement to unseat the selfish shortsighted greedy people who maintain the corpopolitical leach that has hijacked our nation's government.

[-] 1 points by 1169 (204) 2 years ago

a lot

of far better people than me gave us this trust ( over the years being hijacked) we have to fight to get it back, like they said freedom is not free.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree as long as by fight you mean "use strategic nonviolent tactics to engage in forceful direct action".

[-] 2 points by 1169 (204) 2 years ago

yes

exactly what I mean.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Cool :)

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[-] 1 points by 1169 (204) 2 years ago

Yup it is awesome (not me) and that is why I said it is being mismanaged "if you mean having an army that goes etc. etc. (your words). that is what is being discussed here getting it back in the hands of the people.

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[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

What, you don't???

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[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Why do you watch TV?

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[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

Yes, vey much so. Obviously many other people believe so as well, that is why they immigrants continue to come here and for many, risk their own lives.

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[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

Degrees of necessity will determine which steps will need to be taken and when.

[-] 3 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The Government is overthrown every 4 years. The simplest solution is to Vote The Bums out! But don't throw out the guys that are on the 99% side. That is just stupid.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

We keep trying to throw the bums out and keep the good ones, but the country still isn't getting anywhere. If the "throw them out" strategy worked, things would have already changed for the better by now, and we wouldn't have Occupy.

You see, the problem just isn't that simple. The entire system is broken. At some point the People have to change the system itself.

Analogy: A car doesn't run forever. Eventually it starts breaking down and having all kinds of problems. Sooner or later, you have to get another car.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

im been voting for 30 years, and nothing i voted on ever went my way. I mean take seat belt laws, i didnt vote on that, neither did i get to vote on whether i need a permit to build a home on planet earth, or even own a horse , or a pig, or a cow or a chicken, but some other men have taken away that right from me, and I will not forget it.

[-] 3 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Oh well! I voted for Obama, and overthrew the Conservative Government that ruined our economy. I'm actually happy about that.

In my view we just didn't go far enough in the last Presidential Election. We left far too many conservatives in Office (Both Republicans & Democrats) and they were able to subvert the will of the people.

The country made a huge mistake in 2010, but the folks who voted that way, like the folks in Wisconsin, now know what a tremendous mistake they made. I don't think they'll make the same mistake again.

Voting is why this country is free! If you give that away, the 1% win again. It's really that simple.

[-] -1 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

The tea party has made a difference in both the context of the discussion and in voting in political candidates. The right to work issue is very important in the midwest and the south and Wisconsin and Michigan are already turning around much quicker than expected. The influx of foreign auto plants into the right to work states is very compelling.

If you get a chance, go see the Honda plant in Marysville. It's impressive.

[-] 3 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You're living in a dream world! The Tea Party is dying! And they will take the entire Conservative "movement" down with them. What have they done but poison the atnosphere in Washington? What "NEW" context or discussion have they produced except to say No in new and creative ways. Show me One job they have created in America?

Teabaggers are the bastard children of the 1%, and nothing more. Their agenda can be boiled down to cut Taxes and Regulations on the rich, and pray that God Blesses America with prosperity. What the hell is new about that! It doesn't work, and exerybody but you knows that!

They are now, and have always been, plain old Republican Conservatives but now they have Koch money behind them. They have never been able to produce anything positive for America, and never will. Their whole contribution to the discussion has been to speak loudly, and carry a Big Lie for the rich, and that is basically it. They have no new ideas, no new program, no new Agenda.

I ask you, how does restiricting Abortions (Which are the only Bills they have been interested in passing) Help produce jobs?

I find it unbelieveable that an American "Patriot" would praise a Japanese Auto plant, that pays American workers "Coolie" wages & benefits, while you choose to denounce American Auto Company's at the same time? What kind of American does that??? Do you know that the influx of Chinese Auto parts are illegal, and cost American jobs? How can you find that compelling?

And, not for nothing, Wisconsin is not turning around! that is a "Talking Point" created in the devious mind of Walker, and the Koch Brothers that is not based in fact or reality! The reality is that the little improvement in the economy of Wisc. is a remnant of the previous Democratic Gov's policies. Walker is busy destroying that, and now has unemployment rising at the fastest rate in the nation. They aint recalling Walker because he's a champion of Job creation.They are doing it because he has been a disaster.

Michigan is turning around but that is because of The President, our President, who actually cares about American jobs, saved the auto industry. You do know that the main industry for good Union jobs in Michigan is the auto industry, right??? The facts are that the Teabagger Gov. of Mich. is the next bright light that will be recalled, because he's a disaster too. Mark my words, Arizona will be next.

In terms of Job creation the Teabaggers have nothing. Or, do you believe that not passing anything, has miraculously saved the economy? There is nothing impressive about that!

[-] -2 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

The Tea Party had no affect on the last election? They were responsible for Republican control of the House and the subsequent debate on cutting spending. In my opinion, that is having an impact. So I don't see them dying.

Yes, not passing anything on Congress is exactly what should be done. We don't need more regulations and meddling by Congressman who don't know what they are doing regarding business. But that really is the discussion here. You believe that the government should control people's lives and give them jobs such as General Motors and I don't.

History shows us that the free market system is the best way to manage an economy and produces the most goods for the people. This country was founded on liberty and not on you and the President taking away liberties. Fortunately, these beliefs are widespread.

I absolutely praise a Japanese auto plant. Why would I not. They are well managed and have taken care of their workers much better than the American automakers. Do you even know what you are talking about and what type of benefits they receive. What did Honda do last year when the American auto manufacturers couldn't get critical auto parts?

Where were the vaunted American unions?

Since you bring up the abortion issue, you are great in protecting a woman's right to choose but you want to take my liberty away to provide for my family. Go figure that one. Get out of my pocket and go get a job. And if you can go produce something, but that might be a stretch.

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

My God, It’s worse than I thought! You're living in an anti American Dream world where up is down, and backwards is forward. The Teabaggers won the last election, but it was a pyrrhic victory they didn't really want to win. They have no real agenda other than restricting Abortion. They were elected to improve the economy and everybody but you can see that all they’re mange to do is to Tank the Economy. People voted for them to produce JOBS! You have to admit that Teabaggers are miserable failures at creating American jobs. I didn’t hear any debate about the deficit during the last year. I saw a lot of finger pointing, I heard a lot of pontificating, and loud talking, but all it amounted to was NO! They are dying because they have run out of lame excuses for not doing the right thing by the American people. Praising the Japanese Auto industry, while condemning the American Auto workers, is simply the most treasonous thing I have ever heard! And, tells me everything I need to know about where you’re coming from; How can you call yourself a Patriot when you don't support American Businesses? What country are you from? You must be reading from the same history book that Newt reads from. Nowhere in American History Books (Except in Texas) does it show that an unfettered free market is the best way to keep an economy healthy and working for all the people. The last time they tried that was during the Bush Administration and we all know how well that went for most people. Or, do you have a short memory??? You must be a gymnast! How in the world do you leap from Abortion Rights to somebody taking away your right to provide tor your family??? How does that happen? Do you know how crazy that sounds??? Are you in touch with reality??? You live in a dangerous world my friend, if you think that anybody is somehow in your pocket because they don't work. Turn a blind eye all you want, but the fact is that the Tea party is dying! Have you seen their last Rally??? It was the Governor, and two people in Beach Chairs! Are you kidding me! I get more people to a BBQ than that!
The sad fact is that the Teabagger Victory in the last election is what's killing the Republican Party now. The Conservative movement is Crumbling, The Tea Party is dying, there are thousands of people in the street protesting Teabagger policies, The Democrats are winning, and the Campaign hasn't even started yet! I don't know, but things don't look good for the GOP from where I sit.
Remember when you assume, you make an Ass out of you and me! Telling me, a man who has worked every day of his life, to get a job says more about the Snobbish Elitist attitude you have than any short comings I might have. Your attitude tells me that you have never really worked a day in your life, and that everything you own came from your Daddy, or you’re Mommy! Grow up kid before reality runs you over like a Bus.

[-] -2 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

Boy what a rant. So free markets don't work, so tell me why more countries employ those policies than in anytime in modern history.

The people protesting in the street can't decide where there next smoke, drink or sex session is coming from. If that is who you are depending in then your in trouble.

Yes, start working and be productive. How many people do you employ in this job of yours?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

total free markets without regulations and no accountability are as onerous and tyrannical as communism. And all those countries that have changed to free markets are learning that regulations are needed. You should read Adam Smith, the godfather of the American economy.

[-] 3 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I agree with Jesse. If you don't know anything about history you're doomed like Newt to repeat it. May I remind you that the most compelling story of an unfettered Free Market Economy, ended when the leaderless people protesting in the streets of Paris started marching callous aristocrats like you up the steps to a Guillotine.

What you and your kind simply cannot grasp is that the people in the streets are not out there to decide anything. They're out there telling the "Deciders" of this country that (In the vanacular of the peasantry)"Yo! Youse people are Fucking Up!

It's a simple message, and that message has already caused the Republican party to fold like a cheap suit and vote for extending the Middle Class Tax cuts! OWS has won without firing a shot!

You may choose to turn a blind eye to the cries of the people fighting for the heart and soul of this country, but that's what Marie Antoinette did, and if you've read any history book at all, you'll know that she lost her head over that one. And, she wasn't the only one that got the Ax!

Come on man! Be real. How can I just have a job and employ people too. You've never had to work for a living right? Mommy and Daddy have been taking care of you right?? Got all your money from a Trust fund, did ya? Paying 14% in Taxes, and whining that is too high, are we???

Let me tell you something about America Fool! People like me who actually work for a living to make this country a better place for Americans, have probably saved you worthless Ass more times than you know. Folks who go to work every day, and spend their money in the neighborhood, have probably put more money in your pocket than you can count. How many people do I employ in this job of mine! Partner, I employ the world!

By the way, exactly what productive thing are you famous for??? Who the Fuck are you Mr. Money bags??? I'm willing to bet you $10,000 American that you have seen and benefitted from the Job I do, and no one on this board will know anything about what you have done!

When have you ever gotten your hands dirty making a living? How many Americans have you hired in the past year??? If you don't own Google, or Face Book, please go sit in the corner and be quiet, OK.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

I appreciate the love you showed, and your post is great and informative. Although you should either erase it from under my name and repost it to Jflynn1964, or send a copy to his name. From his/her boiler plate response I don't think he/she will get the message by reading the whole thread again unless Jflynn1964 gets the message personally . Jflynn1964 seems like a person who does little research and expects life's answers to be given on a silver, free market platter. :)

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Jessie! You made my day!

It is darn right inspirational to know that I aint the only crazy guy out here fighting these misinformed Folks. Lord, I didn't think that anybody from Arizona had any sense at all. I am happy to be wrong. You restore my faith in America!

My father, who was in the Fight game, always told me, "Keep on punching kid! You never know when the Champ is gonna fall!

Dad was a professional Fighter, unfortunately, he never won a fight from my mother! He was a Conservative, and she was a Liberal. History repeats.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

I believe it has to do with too much sun we Arizonians get. Maybe if more of us would wear hats, there would be more of us with our brain cells intact. lol, just joking. We have a long history of defending state's rights and in this climate of Federal gov't VS big business, it seems to pay off for our economy, but that don't make it right, IMO. Not supporting the Federal gov't allows business interests to divide and conquer the states and our governor is too ditsy to realize she is a tool.

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Stop, Stop, Stop! I can't take all this good news!

The Giants won, and now there are Real Patriotic American's Living in Ariz??? My world is upside down!

Yo, I know a lady that imports Panama Hats! Let's open a Business, and save Arizona!

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

You are both crazy

[-] -1 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

You just have to resort to vulgarity. Yeah fighting for the soul of America. By destroying Oakland City Hall? You have to resort to personal attacks? That's the measure of this board. This is nothing but thuggish behavior.

And you no very little about economics.

[-] 3 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Nice way to avoid the question. You're just like Newt. You like to throw stones, and when someone throws one back you start to whine about Thuggish Behavior! Hello, Thuggish behavior is when I come to your house and take your TV!

I wasn't the one who trashed the Oakland City Hall! I'm in New York! And furthermore, I think a group of Tebaggers hiding behind an OWS banner did that. Everyone I've met at OWS is dedicated to Non-Violence but me

So, I NO (???) very little about economics??? God, you can't even spell know! How old are you 12???

If you believe that more tax cuts for the rich, and deregulating Wall street is a viable Economic policy, it is you who KNOWS nothing about Economics!

Read a Book that aint written by Newt or Ann Coulter for pete's sake!!!

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

How about some books written by Nobel winning professors. Does that work for you?

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

History doesn't back you up. No government is smart enough to make economic decisions. Yeah we need more bank bailouts, more auto company bailouts, more Solyndras. We need more useless wind farms that produce expensive energy when we have shale gas inside our borders.

Oh yeah, the public believes that alright.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

I did not respond to you to hear your lip. I suggested to you to read a book. For the sake of the union, get your head out of the boob tube, stop supporting unaccountable fascists and read your history, or doom us all to serfdom because of your bibliophobia.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 2 years ago

Sure which books. Because they don't back your economic theories. Let me guess you are smarter than Mundell and Friedman. By the way calm down.

[-] -3 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

the Taxed Enough Already party is NOT dying. They're working toward a republican victory in november. Their values are small govt, low taxes and a balanced budget. detroit is a slum , a union produced slum. obama cares about nothing but himself.

[-] 4 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You mean the Not Taxed Enough Party, don't you???Youse come off as a bunch of Cry Babies, when the facts are that we have the lowest tax rates in memory.

So, how are you going to win in November? Who will be your standard bearer in the Election??? Mittens??? Newt??? Paul???

Shoot, they can't even get a majority in the Republican Party, how in the world are they going to get a majority in November? You're only hope is that the Koch Boys will have enough money to convince Americans that Shit is really Gold! And I don't know how you get that done when everybody can smell the Shit! You're just whistling past the Grave Yard, at this point kid.

I bet that every first term Republican whether they are Teabaggers or not, will be turned out in the next election, and I never lose a bet!

If President Obama (You can at least show some respect for the office by capitalizing his name) only cares about himself, why does he propose raising Taxes on himself??? Why did he save the Auto Industry? Are you saying he owns stock in GM??? Why did he repeal DADT? Are you saying he's Gay??? How about the Health care law?? How did he do himself a favor by passing that??? No my friend, you can flap your jaws all you want about our President, but you cannot say he doesn't care!

And, by the way, Detroit is a Slum because Republicans have been waging class warfare on African Americans for the last thirty years! It is un-American to Crow about it now! Republicans under Bush lost New Orleans, and Detroit! You can't blame Democrats for something Republicans have been trying to do for a lifetime!

It is one thing to lie, quite another to lie to yourself, but it is really tragic to believe your own lie! Occupy Wall Street Has already won, and The Tea Party is as dead as Elvis! Deal with it!

[+] -4 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

don't you ever get tired of your mental masturbation?

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Hell no! I love to come on Teabaggers! They have earned it.

You should never get into a pissing contest when you pee sitting down.

[-] -3 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

MENTAL masturbation. are so caught up in one form you don't understand the other?

[-] 2 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

OK, I'll go over it slowly for you. When.... You.... Masturbate..... Mentally.... Your... Orgasm.... comes... in written form!

So, when I write, I am coming all over Teabaggers, and I like Coming! Does that clarify it for you???

You made the analogy, I went with it! But I guess when you're a mental midget, you would have to stand up to be able to catch that one.

[-] -2 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

No, you're not. you're just wasting whatever energy is left in that lonely little brain cell of yours.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

Degrees of necessity will determine which steps will need to be taken and when.

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[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I love this quote, and it is very appropriate for this movement and for this time of year in particular. "YOU CAN CRUSH THE FLOWERS, BUT YOU CAN'T STOP THE SPRING." Alexander Dubchek from the 1968 Prague Spring

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Nice. Feb 29th is coming :)

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