Forum Post: Latest Gallup pole put Romney at a six point lead over obama
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 18, 2012, 8:57 a.m. EST by WeThePeop
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeha
Why should we believe that lying, piece of sh*t poll?
POS polls are simply one more tool in the armamentarium of the RATpublicans.
By the way, you aren't "of we the people", you are probably a 1% house slave (I don't think you are a 1%er yourself). You don't share American values and ideals, get lost.
no kidding
Tuesday, October 23rd: -Third Party Debate in Chicago
To follow up:
"Republican bias at Gallup?"
[An insider:] "They're all Republicans!"
http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Gallup.html
"Gallup and Rasmussen: the polling outliers that lean Republican . . .
1). Gallup has if anything been less accurate in the past than other pollsters in presidential elections . .
2). Gallup in 2010 also had a Republican tilt and it was wildly off-the-mark . . .
3). Gallup leans more Republican than you think" . . .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/25/gallup-rasmussen-polling-outliers-lean-republican
We can't let RATpublican pollsters get away with anything. Nowadays, cheating polls are used to set up cheating vote counts. For RATpublicans to carry out their signature electoral frauds, they have to be backed up by polls, otherwise the pubic won't accept the results as legitimate.
Our bogus electoral system needs to be attacked on many fronts, shaky polls are one of the main ones.
If the Republicans can so easily commit election fraud why did they let Obama win in 2008? Just to get some color in an otherwise very White House?
Obama's popularity was too high for them to resort to their lying, cheating ways.
Even in a psy-opped bogus electoral system, the results have to be believable. Cheating can only beat close elections (or elections that RATpublican pollsters have convinced the public will be close).
As it is, many analyses say that Obama's victory was actually much higher than recorded. The 1% puppetmasters wanted to suppress the extent of the public repudiation of their policies and candidates.
That argument can be found on this page on election fraud: http://www.richardcharnin.com/ . "To Believe that Obama Won in 2008 by [just] 9.5 Million Votes with a 52.87% Share, You Must Believe …" http://richardcharnin.com/ToBelieveObamaWonByRecordedVote.htm
That was nice of the Republicans then. Affirmative action at its best.
If election fraud on the part of Republicans is so obvious, as Dick Charnin would have you believe, why don't you ever hear any Democrats call them out in?
Because it's not just our electoral system that is bogus.
Why didn't the Democrats make an issue of GW Bush's theft of the elections of 2000 & 2004?
Why did the RATpublicans pass laws with 51 votes, but the Democraplicans need 61?
Why do all Dem presidents say focus on the future, forget RATpublican crimes?
The Dems (with some individual exceptions) aren't a true opposition party. They have the same puppetmasters.
Despite all of the above I absolutely will be voting for Obama, though I think he is a Democraplican, a closet Republican. The Democrats still have enough freedom of action & choice to make it worth it.
"Why didn't the Democrats make an issue of GW Bush's theft of the elections of 2000 & 2004?"
"Why did the RATpublicans pass laws with 51 votes, but the Democraplicans need 61?" --you are correct on this 100 percent.
"Why do all Dem presidents say focus on the future, forget RATpublican crimes?"
"The Dems (with some individual exceptions) aren't a true opposition party. They have the same puppetmasters."
"Despite all of the above I absolutely will be voting for Obama, though I think he is a Democraplican, a closet Republican. The Democrats still have enough freedom of action & choice to make it worth it."
www.voterocky.org
He states a bunch of facts but then makes a very illogical conclusion from them.
Rocky, Stein, Johnson, some other 3rd party - it doesn't really make a difference this year but will make you feel better about your vote and hopefully open the door to a 3rd party actually contending in the future.
yep. mine's a protest vote. even though can not win. I will sleep much better, and do.
www.voterocky.org
apparently the duopoly is in the constitution, or something.
If martial law is ever declared and Romney is president we would probably all be killed, if Obama is president we would stand a much better chance. I hope.
I could not disagree.
We are at war, with the terrorists.
What would prevent him. Republican congress? http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/ratings/house
So you admit both parties are controlled by 1% but yet you still support one over the other. Love it.
You have just illustrated why things continue to get worse. There are no consequences to the dems for selling out the people who vote for them. They take your vote for granted no matter what they do.
And why did they produce all of those polls prior to the election saying that Barack Obama was ahead? So that the public would accept his election as legitimate?
People will only believe polls that accord with their eyes and experience. The only reality to polls is if they reflect reality. Your thinking is backwards.
"If You Want To Win An Election, Just Control The Voting Machines"
by Thom Hartmann
Maybe Nebraska Republican Chuck Hagel honestly won two US Senate elections. Maybe it's true that the citizens of Georgia simply decided that incumbent Democratic Senator Max Cleland, a wildly popular war veteran who lost three limbs in Vietnam, was, as his successful Republican challenger suggested in his campaign ads, too unpatriotic to remain in the Senate. Maybe George W. Bush, Alabama's new Republican governor Bob Riley, and a small but congressionally decisive handful of other long-shot Republican candidates really did win those states where conventional wisdom and straw polls showed them losing in the last few election cycles.
Perhaps, after a half-century of fine-tuning exit polling to such a science that it's now sometimes used to verify how clean elections are in Third World countries, it really did suddenly become inaccurate in the United States in the past six years and just won't work here anymore. Perhaps it's just a coincidence that the sudden rise of inaccurate exit polls happened around the same time corporate-programmed, computer-controlled, modem-capable voting machines began recording and tabulating ballots. But if any of this is true, there's not much of a paper trail from the voters' hand to prove it.
You'd think in an open democracy that the government - answerable to all its citizens rather than a handful of corporate officers and stockholders - would program, repair, and control the voting machines. You'd think the computers that handle our cherished ballots would be open and their software and programming available for public scrutiny. You'd think there would be a paper trail of the vote, which could be followed and audited if a there was evidence of voting fraud or if exit polls disagreed with computerized vote counts.
You'd be wrong.
The respected Washington, DC publication The Hill (www.thehill.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx) has confirmed that former conservative radio talk-show host and now Republican U.S. Senator Chuck Hagel was the head of, and continues to own part interest in, the company that owns the company that installed, programmed, and largely ran the voting machines that were used by most of the citizens of Nebraska.
Back when Hagel first ran there for the U.S. Senate in 1996, his company's computer-controlled voting machines showed he'd won stunning upsets in both the primaries and the general election. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely Black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska.
Six years later Hagel ran again, this time against Democrat Charlie Matulka in 2002, and won in a landslide. As his hagel.senate.gov website says, Hagel "was re-elected to his second term in the United States Senate on November 5, 2002 with 83% of the vote. That represents the biggest political victory in the history of Nebraska."
What Hagel's website fails to disclose is that about 80 percent of those votes were counted by computer-controlled voting machines put in place by the company affiliated with Hagel. Built by that company. Programmed by that company.
"This is a big story, bigger than Watergate ever was," said Hagel's Democratic opponent in the 2002 Senate race, Charlie Matulka (www.lancastercountydemocrats.org/matulka.htm). "They say Hagel shocked the world, but he didn't shock me."
Is Matulka the sore loser the Hagel campaign paints him as, or is he democracy's proverbial canary in the mineshaft?
In Georgia, Democratic incumbent and war-hero Max Cleland was defeated by Saxby Chambliss, who'd avoided service in Vietnam with a "medical deferment" but ran his campaign on the theme that he was more patriotic than Cleland. While many in Georgia expected a big win by Cleland, the computerized voting machines said that Chambliss had won.
The BBC summed up Georgia voters' reaction in a 6 November 2002 headline: "GEORGIA UPSET STUNS DEMOCRATS." The BBC echoed the confusion of many Georgia voters when they wrote, "Mr. Cleland - an army veteran who lost three limbs in a grenade explosion during the Vietnam War - had long been considered 'untouchable' on questions of defense and national security."
Between them, Hagel and Chambliss' victories sealed Republican control of the Senate. Odds are both won fair and square, the American way, using huge piles of corporate money to carpet-bomb voters with television advertising. But either the appearance or the possibility of impropriety in an election casts a shadow over American democracy.
"The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which all other rights are protected," wrote Thomas Paine over 200 years ago. "To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery.."
That slavery, according to Hagel's last opponent Charlie Matulka, is at our doorstep.
"They can take over our country without firing a shot," Matulka said, "just by taking over our election systems."
Taking over our election systems? Is that really possible in the USA?
Bev Harris of www.talion.com and www.blackboxvoting.org has looked into the situation in depth and thinks Matulka may be on to something. The company tied to Hagel even threatened her with legal action when she went public about his company having built the machines that counted his landslide votes. (Her response was to put the law firm's threat letter on her website and send a press release to 4000 editors, inviting them to check it out.
"I suspect they're getting ready to do this all across all the states," Matulka said in a January 30, 2003 interview. "God help us if Bush gets his touch screens all across the country," he added, "because they leave no paper trail. These corporations are taking over America, and they just about have control of our voting machines."
In the meantime, exit-polling organizations have quietly gone out of business, and the news arms of the huge multinational corporations that own our networks are suggesting the days of exit polls are over. Virtually none were reported in 2002, creating an odd and unsettling silence that caused unease for the many American voters who had come to view exit polls as proof of the integrity of their election systems.
As all this comes to light, many citizens and even a few politicians are wondering if it's a good idea for corporations to be so involved in the guts of our voting systems. The whole idea of a democratic republic was to create a common institution (the government itself) owned by its citizens, answerable to its citizens, and authorized to exist and continue existing solely "by the consent of the governed."
Prior to 1886 - when, law schools incorrectly tell law students, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that corporations are "persons" with equal protection and other "human rights" - it was illegal in most states for corporations to involve themselves in politics at all, much less to service the core mechanism of politics. And during the era of Teddy Roosevelt, who said, "There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains," numerous additional laws were passed to restrain corporations from involvement in politics.
Wisconsin, for example, had a law that explicitly stated:
"No corporation doing business in this state shall pay or contribute, or offer consent or agree to pay or contribute, directly or indirectly, any money, property, free service of its officers or employees or thing of value to any political party, organization, committee or individual for any political purpose whatsoever, or for the purpose of influencing legislation of any kind, or to promote or defeat the candidacy of any person for nomination, appointment or election to any political office."
The penalty for violating that law was dissolution of the corporation, and "any officer, employee, agent or attorney or other representative of any corporation, acting for and in behalf of such corporation" would be subject to "imprisonment in the state prison for a period of not less than one nor more than five years" and a substantial fine.
However, the recent political trend has moved us in the opposite direction, with governments answerable to "We, The People" turning over administration of our commons to corporations answerable only to CEOs, boards, and stockholders. The result is the enrichment of corporations and the appearance that democracy in America has started to resemble its parody in banana republics.
But if America still is a democratic republic, then We, The People still own our government. And the way our ownership and management of our common government (and its assets) is asserted is through the vote.
On most levels, privatization is only a "small sin" against democracy. Turning a nation's or community's water, septic, roadway, prisons, airwaves, or health care commons over to private corporations has so far demonstrably degraded the quality of life for average citizens and enriched a few of the most powerful campaign contributors. But it hasn't been the end of democracy (although some wonder about what the FCC is preparing to do - but that's a separate story).
Many citizens believe, however, that turning the programming and maintenance of voting over to private, for-profit corporations, answerable only to their owners, officers, and stockholders, puts democracy itself at peril.
And, argues Charlie Matulka, for a former officer of one of those corporations to then place himself into an election without disclosing such an apparent conflict of interest is to create a parody of democracy.
Perhaps Matulka's been reading too many conspiracy theory tracts. Or maybe he's on to something. We won't know until a truly independent government agency looks into the matter.
Have you read what someone posted on Thom Hartmann's website about George Soros controlling the machines?
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/04/george-soros-will-control-your-votes-coming-presidential-election
And what about this?- http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/18/14515701-report-sees-decline-in-voting-glitches-but-vote-by-mail-sparks-concern?lite
When a post is as long as yours, it is "not optimal"
Yes - I know - thom hartmann is worth the read
Take you time sound out the words. It is worthwhile.
You'll understand it later, when you read the news.
Oh boy can't wait!
LOL
I saw this post by you elsewhere. It does not address my question.
Again, if Republicans can so easily commit election fraud, why did they let Obama win?
all of the computers are not built by the same people
I assume you know what happened with the Ohio computers in 2004
exit polls where the machines had no auditable paper trail showed huge vote differences - favoring R
exit polls where the machines had auditable paper trail showed little difference
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/2004votefraud_ohio.html
HOW: it could have happened
they programmed SOME of the machines to cheat
the programming is done BEFORE the election for example a computer could be programmed to switch 10% of the votes from D to R at 9PM but if D won by 20% it would not change the results
So why did they let Obama win in 2008? Affirmative action?
I hate to do this -
but is this where we put the
poleish joke ?
come on, david & charlie - educate your slaves
You link David Graeber and Charlie Rose, yes? Why?
So we can count on you to never use a poll to bolster your arguments again. Good to know.
If there's other evidence to back up a poll or a concurrence of polls, sure I will.
How dare you use the name Betsy Ross. RATpublicans hate our American ideals & values, hate our American freedoms, hate our way of life (with a majority middle class). They are the anti-patriot treason party.
Is this another sockpuppet for Underdog/GypsyKing?
Do you have evidence to back up your declarations regarding what other people hate or do you just think that people should embrace everything you feel/think/say as the complete and utter truth?
Actions speak louder than words. RATpublicans, absolutely, are working towards the destruction of the America we grew up with -- freedom, ideals, a middle class lifestyle for most.
"When I look at the Republicans, I am tempted to dismiss them as the Treason Party. Seriously, were a band of traitors to concoct a series of positions deliberately designed to weaken America, they would be hard pressed to beat the current GOP dogma" http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnick/2012/07/04/sun-times-columnist-celebrates-fourth-july-calling-republicans-treason-#ixzz29kT52Rrl
Google RATpublican (oops, I mean Republican) Party Treason and see what you find.
Maybe if you can't stand the heat, you should get out of the kitchen. You are not welcome here.
I am of "We the people" but I aint one of obama's little (ows) sheeple
Fuck the system
A win for Obama or Romney is a loss for America.
WTFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDTT1yRNsFE&feature=player_embedded
P+A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fojrlX6rmmM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
make that seven
be careful what you wish for. it could come true.
then you'd be seeing your incompetents or traitors of the Bush years, pulling the plug on the country http://articles.marketwatch.com/2010-08-10/commentary/30767246_1_gop-ideals-david-stockman-economy
http://majesticequality.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/bush-is-a-war-criminal-but-i-dont-believe-that-bush-is-a-war-criminal/
http://www.politicususa.com/bill-maher-tears-republican-myth-obama-ruined-america.html
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/08/01/206517/david-stockman-how-gop-destroyed-the-economy/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-wallechinsky/is-george-bush-guilty-of-_b_26669.html
four more wars and drama vote Romney
http://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2012/03/08/is-the-gop-becoming-a-war-party/
http://www.policymic.com/articles/12979/if-republican-economics-were-so-good-why-did-america-need-a-stimulus-to-boost-jobs
to loose the rest of our wealth vote Romney
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/thecoloradokid/blog/2011/08/have-republicans-ruined-american-dream
http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/magazine/108150/the-revolution-eats-its-own#
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/03/40-quotes-demonstrating-the-conservative-values-republicans-want-to-destroy-america-with/
http://whitehouser.com/politics/terrorists-didnt-kill-america-cowards-did/
http://cupofjoepowell.blogspot.com/2011/09/does-gop-crave-destroyed-america.html
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/05/the-truth-about-american-politics.html
It is an interesting statistical phenomenon; national polls show Romney ahead, but polls done on the state level which roll up into electoral college votes show Obama well ahead. Check out Nate Silver's poll and explanation on the web.
Nate's polls? The electoral college graph/poll has a + or- margin of 56 votes!!! That makes it a LOT closer than you want to believe.
Very true. And we must be aware what these polls really mean. Using Nate Silver's numbers, he shows Obama's chance of winning about 70% over Romney's chance of about 30%. That means Obama is the odds favorite 2 to 1. But that doesn't mean Obama has 70% of the vote or he is going to win by 70%. It is only Obama's "chance" of winning which means Romney also has a "chance" of winning. So as far a us voters are concerned, if we are really all that concerned about who does win, we all then better show up at the polls.
The people so forget who has made them poor and jobless.
Romney.
Yes we will never forget the village idiot (obama) made a lot of poor and jobless citizens, thanks for your input
How was that?
It was the duopoly system we inherited thats giving these problems and no solutions and no ways forward.
Romney profited from sending jobs away, taking peoples jobs and sending to china.
Leaving low wage no wage jobs. Thank mitt.
obama's job czar (ceo of GE) is also sending all their work to China so what is your point????
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-09/goldman-sachs-leads-split-with-obama-as-ge-jilts-him-too.html
I am not understanding how ceo of GE is obama's job czar.
please clarify.
I would say his lead is somewhere in the 30+ range.
So what? If Romney wins then dems will go along with his idiotic ideas just like they did with Bush but some of us will continue to say NO to bad ideas. The outcome of this election means zero to OWS since neither candidate will do anything about corrupt financial institutions.
[Removed]
Romney 51% while the village idiot is trailing back at 45%
"village idiot"? that disrespect betrays the impotence of your position.
So you do not support OWS, or the 99%?
Since when did supporting the 99% = supporting Obama, except in your mind?
Supporting the 99% does NOT = supporting Pres Obama. Not in my mind anyway.
Why do you ask such a stupid question.?
99% of what?? out of the 200 or so ows followers left????
99% of the American people.
If you support Romney you must be advocating for the 1%.
They have armies of lawyers, lobbyists and accountant to buy our politicians, rig the system against us, & evade their fairshare of taxes?
Why are you here if you serve Romney & the 1%?
You do not think obama is the same way idiot????
Definitely not. The 1% banksters are squealing against the Obama/dem fin reform and they have given to repubs 5 to 1 over dems.
Please refrain from the childish insults. it just showsyour inability to argue the facts.
Finally after four long years without a leader, we will soon have one again. Go GOP