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Forum Post: Latest Chinese self immolations.

Posted 5 years ago on Nov. 10, 2012, 7:37 p.m. EST by WuWei (34) from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Why are the Buddhists in the Tibetan areas of China so poor? Because as many one third of the men, instead of doing what young people elsewhere do: leave the countryside and go and work in the cities so as to provide for their parents in their old age; opt instead to be a burden on their community for the rest of their lives. The monks are just about as useless as you can get. They lead such sheltered pampered lives that the thought of meaningful work terrifies them. They are good for nothing layabouts who kid themselves on that everything they do, every breath they take benefits all sentient beings. This what allows them to scrounge off the women and old people without a trace of conscience. But the parties over. The people are no longer willing or able to support these parasites in their lives of idleness. The thought of having to disrobe and work in a car factory in Shanghai or Beijing fills them with such horror that they would rather die.



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[-] 1 points by lisa2100 (7) 5 years ago

MONKS hate and "take" from people? What about the Dali Llama, wanting peace? Monks are for non-materialsm, harmony, balance, peace, good for the ecosystem... Sorry, but I think most Buddhists wouldn't agree

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Who else is there to take from? Who do you think feeds them? Self iimmolation s not a peaceful act ,it is an extreme form of passive-aggression.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

WuWei posts several misinformation pieces a week about the Tibetan protests against Chinese tyranny. Two of the latest to set fire to themselves were aged 15 and 16 years, as well as a 23 yr-old mother.

Ignore this fascist pretender, WuWei. Claims to come from New York, but doesn't.

The following is from Associate Press, so the link it too long.

"These protests are aimed at sending the next generation of China's unelected regime a clear signal that Tibetans will continue to fight for their freedom despite China's efforts to suppress and intimidate them," Free Tibet director Stephanie Brigden said in a statement.

Free Tibet also said that the three monks, at ages 15 and 16, were the youngest to self-immolate. They set fire to themselves Wednesday afternoon outside a police office in southwest Sichuan province calling for freedom for Tibet and the return of their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, the group said, adding it was the first documented case of a triple self-immolation.

The youngest monk, identified as 15-year-old Dorjee, died at the scene and his companions, Samdup and Dorjee Kyab, both 16, were taken to a hospital by security forces and their conditions were unknown, Free Tibet said.

Then in the evening a 23-year-old Tibetan nomadic woman, Tamdin Tso, died after self-immolating in another ethnically Tibetan area in western Qinghai province, it said. She took petrol from a motorbike and set fire to herself in the family's winter pasture near Tongren, a monastery town, and her body was taken back to her family's home whether people gathered to pray, it said. She had a 5-year-old son.

[-] 1 points by lisa2100 (7) 5 years ago

Poor Monks! WuWui shouldn't post MISinformation..

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Poor Children you mean. You cannot be a monk until you have reached the age of 20. All victims under 20 are counted as novices and the monks have a duty of care towards them which they appear to ignore as easily as they ignore all the rest of their vows.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

I usually agree with you on a lot of issues here, and about five years ago, would have agreed with you on this issue as well. Since then, I have learned much about Tibetan Buddhism that I did not previously know. Please have a look at the following article from Michael Parenti, a prominent American professor:


An excerpt:

". . . few Tibetans would welcome a return of the corrupt aristocratic clans that fled with him (the Dalai Lama) in 1959 and that comprise the bulk of his advisers. Many Tibetan farmers, for example, have no interest in surrendering the land they gained during China’s land reform to the clans. Tibet’s former slaves say they, too, don’t want their former masters to return to power. “I’ve already lived that life once before,” said Wangchuk, a 67-year-old former slave who was wearing his best clothes for his yearly pilgrimage to Shigatse, one of the holiest sites of Tibetan Buddhism. He said he worshipped the Dalai Lama, but added, “I may not be free under Chinese communism, but I am better off than when I was a slave.”

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Parenti is a marxist socialist, borderline communist.

Perhaps you're depending on one source, rather than doing some cross-referencing. The following is from his biography on wiki.

Parenti is known for his steadfast leftist and radical political convictions, which have seen him maintain a sympathetic view of the orthodox communist movement even after the fall of the Soviet Union saw the disintegration of much of it.

In the era of Mikhail Gorbachev, Parenti was highly critical of the USSR's reformist moves of "perestroika" and "glasnost", arguing that these had the effect of introducing capitalism into the country.

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Its not just Parentis "....Earlier visitors to Tibet commented on the theocratic despotism. In 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was under the “intolerable tyranny of monks” and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama’s rule as “an engine of oppression.” At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O’Connor, observed that “the great landowners and the priests… exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal,” while the people are “oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft.” Tibetan rulers “invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition” among the common people. In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, “The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them. . . . The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth.”24 As much as we might wish otherwise, feudal theocratic Tibet was a far cry from the romanticized Shangri La so enthusiastically nurtured by Buddhism’s western proselytes...." from Parentis.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

I've been reading about Tibetan Buddhism for around 30 years now, and originally was a supporter of Tibetan independence. Over the years, I've read numerous sources telling about the abuses of Lamaism in Tibet, and gradually changed my opinion.

Pretty much any professor of Tibetan Buddhism in the US, or probably in your own country, can tell you that Tibet maintained a form of medieval feudalism up to the 1950s.

Can you imagine any western country living under medieval conditions in the 20th century? Of course, the Chinese had to put an end to that. They did commit abuses in the process, but the Tibetan people are much better off today than they ever were. I have western friends who have been to Tibet, and have told me this is so.

I'm not an advocate of communism or socialism, I believe in the "American system" or "worker's capitalism" (which is not what we have in the US today). However, I believe "perestroika" was a disaster for Russia. It wasn't the introduction of capitalism, but rather imperialism into that country.

Western financiers worked with Russian traitors to rape their country.

[-] -1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Thank you for your support because it is not easy for me to have say these painful things because I am a Buddhist and belonged to The Tibet support for a short period. But now it's fifteen year olds. There have been three young people of that age now and the other two on Wednesday afternoon were barely over 16. What next? How could the three of them have got hold of all that petrol without anyone else noticing? They immolated outside a police station surely someone must have noticed them, on the way there, soaked in petrol or carrying containers of petrol? Two other fifteen year olds in October died in front of their Monastery. Does anyone seriously believe that the adult monks didnt notice anything? I have yet to hear of any of the Abbots in the affected areas condemning self immolation.

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 5 years ago

I'm a Theravadian Buddhist which is basically a humanist religion but I am also a spiritist. I'm not Chinese, I'm English, but I am a big admirer of Chinese culture. I chose WuWei as my Nom de. Plume because it sounds good and I like the idea of "actionless action" , "going with the flow" and all that. So you are not Chinese yourself? I've always wanted to visit China. Anyway, good luck!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

Sounds deep. How does it apply to OWS, & the concept of 99% vs 1%?

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Its not deep. I dont suppose it applies at all, what does that matter?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

I have always considered eastern philosophy deep. I suppose we can disagree. Although I am surprised at the push back.

Perhaps it is a defensiveness based on a reading of my comment as sarcastic? We NY'rs are frequently skeptical. No sarcasm. I indeed see it as deep.

And I think in fact it does apply to OWS. And thought you would have insight into that application.

It matters because this is an OWS site and the value of applying great eastern philosophy to the movement would lend important justification and support to ourefforts.

You don't see that?

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Á m sorry, yes I did think you were being sarcastic! In my opinion the Eastern concepts of action from non-action, going with the flow etc., can help the weak beat the strong. You hear about it all the time in the martial arts such as Judo and Aikido where the opponents strength and energy is directed against him. The key concept is the "Middle Way" It is a very important concept in all the Eastern religions. In Taoism and Confucionism it developed mystical overtones but in Buddhism it tends to be overlooked although the Buddha gave it great importance. The concept is not unknown in the west either. We have all heard the saying "moderation in all things" amd the advice to avoid extremes and that is all there is to it really. If you practise the middle way in your daily life the meaning of effortless action, bending with the wind, swimming with the tide etc., will become clearer. Dualistic thinking is ingrained in the Western mind because of inflexible attitudes and moralistic thinking By cultivating the middle way in action, thought and deed the Riches of Eastern wisdom wisdom-Sun Tzu, The I Ching, Lao Tse's "The Way and Its Power" and so on, will all become clear to you. Sorry about the misunderstanding, Take care.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

No prob. I see it as you do. OWS will succeed if they choose a non violent middle way.

The eastern ideas you mention are trueisms in all human endeavor. Certainly political action.



[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

I see, what kind of Buddhist are you now? Is your family from China, if so, from where? I'm currently living in Guangzhou, teaching English, and know some Buddhist people here.