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Forum Post: Lack of Dialog about the lack of transparency on this site

Posted 10 months ago on Feb. 10, 2014, 5:09 p.m. EST by OpSafeWinter (0) from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Does anyone know the policy of this site about content?

Seems to be a big part of the #IFoundedOccupyWallSt conversation, yet there is no mention in the forums.

Is this a matter of censorship by a founder of the now dead #OWS?

Is it a matter of fear of being banned like the rest of the original #Occupy movement from posting when you do question the top down nature of this site?

Or do you not know that this site has a single admin now that the founder has had her very public meltdown?

I'd explore the ongoing twitter Direct Action going on under the #IFoundedOccupyWallSt hashtag?

175 Comments

175 Comments


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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22090) 10 months ago

How about we all, every single one of us, re-dedicate ourselves to the 99%?

Let's put all of this aside and re-focus on the struggles of the masses of people who live within an economic system that doesn't work for them. How about that? How about we put all this petty crap aside?

[-] 2 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Luke Skywalker promoted his fathers goodness instead of indulging in the failures. Gandhi said an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind because people teach each other to use violence to solve problems. If we took all of our energy and focused on making progress that would be the result.

Most of us are suffocated by that economic system, that making time and having that energy is like moving mountains. So here we are, sitting on the occupy forum without energy to commit to anything more, frustrated and bickering.

How do we make time to have energy? How can we free people up to get things done? When I heard about occupy I heard it was a community living on the street, feeding itself, dedicated. That sounds perfect.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22090) 10 months ago

I always go back in my head to those days in Zuccotti Park and all of the placards that spoke the truths of the 99%. We can never give up! And, when there is bickering, I try to put blinders on and just keep going.

Of course there are going to be people who want to take down OWS because this is a revolutionary movement and it frightens people who want the status quo or who don't yet realize that we need much broader change than working within the system can bring. Some of those people are right here on this forum.

[-] 2 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

I feel like a lot of the people on here are putting on a show by bickering, trying to make this forum, the movement, even democracy look as unattractive as possible. They all have the same strategy of ignoring certain things and focusing on the unavailing, as if they are following the same discipline. This website is extremely strategic because it's the main thing people see when they become interested in occupy and search the net. People have already seen this and moved on.

I think it's important that we start something new. learn from these mistakes and create something the mass can catch sight of and appreciate. They have us extremely divided with information scattered and multiple petitions for the same thing. We need a flag ship that the mass can follow and also so that our effort can consolidate. We need to unite, for real.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22090) 10 months ago

I think there are people on this forum who pretend to be supporters but who are not supporters at all. They work for someone who wants to take this thing down. They infiltrated a long time ago. That is just the way it is. Revolutions are not easy and they do not happen overnight.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 10 months ago

Hey, bw.

All revolutions find themselves confronted by powerful forces aligned against them, of course. In our case, at least on here, the faux supporters can be identified fairly easily. Who strives for solidarity and tries to build community, and who sews discord and division?

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22090) 10 months ago

I would like to see this forum become a bastion of information, solidarity and support for the 99%, same as I know you do, gno.

[-] 4 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 10 months ago

This forum has been an incredible wealth of information. The only down-side to it is the information gets buried over time. It needs some sort of repository, like a wiki or a page with the subjects divided into categories, like what Matt was organizing back in the early days.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22090) 10 months ago

Good idea. Also, don't forget that you can search for topics in the "search" button. For example, You can type in the word "drones" and get a bunch of threads on that topic.

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[-] 4 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 10 months ago

I would positively welcome being able to track user comments over time. I've lost count of the times I've wanted to retrieve old comments, not only mine but other peoples as well. In fact, I've spent an embarrassing amount of time going thru the comment stream for that very reason. You know what would be a great addition to that ability? Once a comment's been in the archive for a short time, say a few days or so, it should be frozen. In other words, after a short time, you couldn't go back and edit it. It would become a permanent part of the record.

The best part of all that would be you clowns would have to stop labeling people liars just because you don't agree with them. Or like 'em.

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[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 10 months ago

We all tell the truth as we see it. Just because it doesn't happen to jibe with your "truth" doesn't necessarily make it a lie. Nor does it make one a liar. Or a Repelican/Libertarian. Or a troll or a "dumb fuking cunt."

It's funny you responded to a comment about infiltrators. Truthfully i don't think you are one, I just think you're misguided, politically.

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[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 10 months ago

Hey dumb shit. I'm not JGriff. And I'm far too lazy to create a new username then waste the time swapping between them. Hell, I have enough trouble thinking of shit to say with one username. Whadaya, insane?

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[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 10 months ago

We sound exactly the same.

You do realize you're reading, don't you?

Are you okay, man? Should I call somebody?

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 10 months ago

Imagine that. Two people in a nation of 300 million sounding similar on an online forum...

The plot thickens (que doomsday music.. bum bum bummmmmm)

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 10 months ago

Heheheh.

Zen sure keeps it entertaining. He's an asset.

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[-] 2 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

How about if this website had a think tank? Something that couldn't be fluffed up with opinion pieces on mainstream news but focused on a strategy for rescuing our government. They might still attack it but it'd be a lot harder for them. I don't think the government could shut it down because it wouldn't be anti-government, just healing and progressive. I really like the idea of a public think tank though, it couldn't hurt.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22090) 10 months ago

I think this forum is supposed to be like a public think tank. The problem is that when new people come here to post or read, I think they may, and probably are, turned off by the bickering, personal attacks and even the personal conversations, not to mention posts in foreign languages.

It should all be about information for the 99% and nothing else, and by the 99% I mean the global 99%, not just those in our own communities.

I do get what you are saying about something simple that people can participate in. Maybe you can present something to jart. In a way, the first step to getting people to take action is to get them to understand that they have a reason to take action, and for that I think the forum is and has been very useful.

[-] 2 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Aye, I was thinking that splitting up the forum into a few categories could combat some of the fluffing tactics at least. Or just having a separate space with that kind of intention. I would hope that it could encourage new people to post also, having more space like that.

I like to think that revolutions can happen overnight, it's not like we have much time to kill. We might not see hell on earth with impending climate change, but our children will.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22090) 10 months ago

I have looked at other places to post, other than twitter and facebook, because I don't care for either of those, and really, this forum is set up very well, the way the threads bubble, the way the archives are right there to search, the way the voting works, etc.

The infighting is very bad and I am very sad about he many excellent posters who have been driven off of here by sheer bullying, but as far as how it is structured, I think it is pretty good.

And, I'm here for my kids and all young people. Period. I doubt I'll see major change in my lifetime, sadly, but there is satisfaction in fighting the fight and it makes a life worthy to fight the good fight, I think. So, never give up! Occupy Wall Street!

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

This website is actually looking pretty good, I hadn't looked around besides the forum in a very long time. I'd really like to see something ridiculously simple that the mass can participate in, that can take something we need, such as a petition and focus the power of the people upon it, like a laser to preform surgery.

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[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

There remains people with energy who want to do things. A lot. One problem is their voice is being drowned by a handful of people who have taken control of Occupy media on the web and changed the principle of wanting more democracy to creating less democracy.

Those who believe in more democracy must take a stand against this bad behaviour. This is doing something very important. The first step in creating world with more democracy is making sure we have a movement which, itself, uses democratic principles.

[-] 2 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Wow, I can believe that. Someone's hitting the stink button on everything I post too. So much want for progressive conversation it's amazing. Maybe occupy is totally hijacked. Maybe we need something new. I keep thinking we need an organization, one thing that the mass can follow. Not all this scattered around stuff.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

The mods here use vote manipulation. It's one of the ways they control this place apart from banning and censorship.

Maybe occupy is totally hijacked.

This forum has been hijacked for a long time.

We do need a new forum if this one cannot be fixed. That's for sure. We should have a place where everyone can share their ideas, not only a few chosen ones.

[-] 3 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Aye, something that had a category for brainstorming would be nice. It'd at least get rid of some fluff. The people fighting us can always attack with secret agents though. Deception is disaster, but truth will always be reality. Free speech has to overpower them, and they're definitely fighting that.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Yes, free speech should be considered one of the most important principles of Occupy. It's sad that this is being eroded here and on the Twitter feeds. In the end, it probably won't matter too much. Occupy is organic and will find a way to survive. If a few people want to control everything in authoritarian fashion the others will slowly move away from them. I think a new forum is going to pop up soon. This one is no longer working because of a few who have tasted power. We can see that with the Twitter feed. The hashtag #IfoundedOccupyWallST is already more popular than the official Twitter feed taken over by jart. A good example of Occupy being organic. Most occupiers will follow the events and groups which represent Occupy ideologies the best. Whatever is more democratic will become more popular. The places which are not democratic, like this one, will either change or die.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Sounds complicated. I have a fear that we don't have time for complicated. We may not have to face hell on earth, but our children will.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Yes, time is fleeting. It saddens me that a few Occupiers have decided to play Mr. Authoritarian. Sad indeed.

This is one thing I never understood - Why do marxist groups always talk about democracy but often tend towards totalitarianism. It's seems so hard to find marxists that actually practice democracy. I was thinking Occupy would be different when I joined, and I still think it's possible. But, to be honest, these latest happenings make me believe it might be very hard. Power always seems to corrupt people, even marxists.

[-] 2 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

I think our leader shouldn't be a person. It should be a foundation of united rights, based on education and free speech, the things we know to be vital.

Democracy is nothing without education and free speech.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Absolutely agree. Well said.

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[-] 0 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Not that organic isn't good. Just that evolution is pretty slow, and letting things happen naturally might come around too late if we don't seriously motivate.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

it's not like the flow of money could be publicly tracked

it is the exchanged of goods and services among the people that serves them

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Bullshit!!

This forum has been infected with bots and puppets since day one.

I have less reason to believe you're not one of them with your every post.

My guess, is you're dedicated only to yourself and propagating lies..

[-] 2 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Sorry, but I don't believe you. I have seen vote manipulation by the mods. Time and time again. Anyhow, who cares. Points don't matter. What matters is the undemocratic way this site and the Twitter feeds are run. They do not follow Occupy principles. For example, I see a few users here who swear, troll others, etc... and never get banned at all. It's just ridiculous.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

What's this about? Didn't you both say this forum is hijacked? How about solutions? I think a few categories would help. If this site doesn't want to do anything that would help then maybe we have to start over? What's the best way to get in touch with activists and people dedicated to this movement?

[-] 2 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

shooz is one of the people who have hijacked this site. I don't think he would admit to that, but ask almost any other user here by PM and they will tell you I'm correct.

Either we fix this site, or get a new forum. Most likely, we will need a new one. The people who have power here really don't seem to be willing to give it up in exchange for more democracy. They want full authoritarian control. They want to be mods till they die, instead of sharing the duty with everyone.

The best way to get in touch with activists and people dedicated to this movement was #IfoundedOccupyWallSt until yesterday, but that has been banned as of today. I would try various reedit channels. Just ask around. Look for anarchy and Occupy keywords.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Either we fix this site, or get a new forum.

U keep threatening 2 leave and create Ur own 4um - Stop Making Threats and JUST DO IT ALREADY - LEAVE U eternal prevaricator.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Learn to type. You look like a 14 year old teenage girl sending an SMS to her punk boyfriend. It makes you look silly.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

LEAVE U eternal prevaricator. Make good on Ur threat and LEAVE.

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[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Harsh. Thanks for ideas. I have to go do laundry. Good luck to you.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Thanks, keep Occupy alive. Let's always strive for more democracy - within Occupy and outside of Occupy. If you find any good Twitter or reedit channels or forums let me know.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

The regulars on this sight do a good job keeping it moving

[-] 2 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

That's subjective I guess. I would say they do a good job at having less and less users. Anyways, I'm sure we can both agree that more democracy would be better. It always is.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

yep

the subject matter is interesting and informative to me

Anyways, I'm sure we can both agree that more democracy would be better. It always is.

can this be more specific ?

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

the object is free speech here

not "democracy"

Opening the access code of the occupy twitter tag to everyone certainly sounds like a good plan experiment

hash tags do that on twitter

https://twitter.com/#occupywallstreet

twitter needs to create a pointer to choose to follow hash subjects

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

Jart took over the Twitter account.

There used to be various writers, now all the articles are either written by jart, or picked by her.

There is no longer a committee that votes on articles change Pick them democratically, then rotate them. shrink.

she broadcast an occupy twitter account

so can anyone else

@occupywallstreetbully is open

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

The Twitter account she took over was being used my many occupiers. She changed the password without telling them so she could take the account for herself only. Not cool. No matter how you cut it, this act hurts Occupy because it tries to lower the amount of democracy instead of trying to create more democracy. Every time Occupy creates more democracy it wins, every time it creates less it loses badly.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You can't see it fool.

You can't know it.

You are lying.

I don't like lies.

There was a group here who actually admitted to vote manipulation..

Do you remember that?

Honesty is the cornerstone of Occupy.

[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

I'm sorry, but I am not lying. Not sure what these red herrings are about.

I think the cornerstone of Occupy is striving for more democracy. You are striving for less.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You offered up those herrings and even you don't know what they are?

Another aspersion?

Can you name even of those from this forum that lobbied so hard against democracy?

Honesty doesn't matter in your book?

OK...I guess.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

I think you are lobbying against democracy in this exchange between us. I want more, but you are doing everything in your power to avoid the arguments I have posed. You just want to deflect the issue with ad hominem and red herrings.

It would be nice if you could explain why you think it's good that the mods and not elected democratically and never changed, instead of the idea that I propose (democratic voting and rotation).

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

The forum isn't set up for that kind of process.

And even if it were, what would prevent anti-occupy groups from affecting the election? Thereby usurping any reasonable control.

In the early days it could have easily been taken over by the Ron Lawlers.

Remember them?

Do you remember anything at all?

Now I've answered your question.

Stop accusing of things I didn't do, or say.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

I have a few ideas how the problems you raise could be fixed quite easily. Wanting more democracy isn't always easy. But, if we give up like you are suggesting, then we are only left with an authoritarian system which isn't good at all. This site has lost a huge amount of users because of it's undemocratic ways. This should be a red flag and considered very bad for Occupy. Only a few users remain, and they aren't really in line with Occupy as much as they are in line with the Democrats. They don't want more democracy like I suggest, they want more Obama.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Well then, I guess you should go write a forum.

You could lie there all you want.

You could lie all night and all day.

Let me know where it is though I want to return your favor of concern trolling.

You just lied about forum all over again.

You bury it in your rhetoric.

The last thing on your mind is democracy.the very last thing.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

Wow,stink button on everything I post progressive conversation hijacked. organization, mass follow. scattered stuff.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Why are you mocking this like a five year old? What's your point?

[-] -2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

those are the substantive words

I extracted them

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

I thought you needed to look for work?

The amount of time you spend actively posting here is seeming a bit funded.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

my financial records will indicate that my mother though property equity sends me money to live

further inquire will indicate the bank as the primary controller of the property mortages

it's a negative sum game

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Did CIA set you up with that? j/k, maybe.

I still say get a good sleeping bag and stop paying rent.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

let them eat cake

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

oh wait I have a $35000 student loan that grew $5,000 this year

that I'm never gonna pay if I do laundry

and these banks want me to take them seriously

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

The points are being manipulated by the twinkle team. Don't worry about it. Take a good look at the comments here. I have many 2 points, and shooz has many 0 and 1 points. In a few hours, shooz's comments will have 5 points each and mine will all be in the -4 range. Happens all the time. /just keep your head up. Points don't matter, especially when the twinkle team manipulates them.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Then why the vigilante attitude?

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

What vigilante attitude are you talking about? My comment above is polite. I simply wrote what I believe is true. I didn't use deflection or insults.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Oh please.

Do you forget so easily?

"We need to stay vigilante"

Oh and BTW, there's NO bitching about banned users.

take it to admin. No exceptions.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Oops. I meant to write vigilant. Spelling mistake.

Take it to the admin? I'm saying the admin does not represent Occupy ideals. She has taking authoritarian leadership of Occupy which is against the principles of anarchy and community. She controls this website just like she controls the Twitter feed in an UnOccupy type fashion. Of course, talking to her would change nothing, but talking about it might. She needs to see the light and change her ways by herself. If she founded Occupy on the principles of anarchy and community, then she should start promoting those ideas. If she wishes to lead in totalitarian fashion, then she should flat out say it so the many occupiers who have dedicated their time to Occupy can form a new group based on the ideals they thought Occupy was all about.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You don't represent them either. Obviously.

The admin system has actually worked well and some banned users have been re-instated.

Why smear the site?

Why smear jart?

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You did too smear jart.

That's all you did was smear her and this forum.

Are you the same guy that posted almost identical crap the other day?

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Call it what you will. I think it's important to call out people who are taking over Occupy by force. Thousands of people are doing it today on Twitter, this forum, blogs, etc... We want more democracy, not less. This is not trolling, it's wanting Occupy to go back to its roots.

Are you the same guy that posted almost identical crap the other day?

No, and I don't consider it crap. Like I said, thousands of people are talking about this issue all over the web. I'm far from being the only one. You happen to be in the minority now. People who have given a lot of their time to Occupy were under the impression that it was about more democracy. Of course, when they realize some power hungry people want less democracy they are up in arms. Absolutely normal.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Thousands of people are jerking their knees.

It's certainly not the first time that's happened.

Absolutely normal. Are you proud to have joined them?

So far this would seem to be the ONLY issue you have the least amount of concern for.

I would have to wonder why you would sign in here after all these years just to smear jart.

To be a ONE issue poster.

Very curious and VERY troll like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnPMoAb4y8U

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Are you proud to have joined them?

Yes, I am proud to fight for more democracy. That's why I joined Occupy.

To be a ONE issue poster.

red herring, and an attempt to deflect.

Very curious and VERY troll like.

red herring, and an attempt to deflect.


What I find curious is that a mod trolls everyone one the site with deflections and red herrings. You go as far as to troll shadz66 by writing in a language other than English. Sorry, but that is strange.

Nothing strange about me wanting more democracy.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You're a red herring.

I already told that.

A one issue red herring, that lacks to wherewithal, or will, to discuss anything else.

You have no desire for democracy, you know that and I know that.

You should stop repeating it.

I'll try one more time.

http://libcom.org/blog/scabs-part-ii-st-albert-wildcat-11022014

[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Strive for increased democracy. Heal your soul. You've tasted power and it has corrupted you. Come back to the 99%. Build communities, not websites based on authoritarian models.

And, why are you here trying to change this post off topic with off topic links? If you don't care about this issue, then don't post on this page.

You are getting down voted for a reason. You'll have to do some heavy manipulation in a few hours to make it look like everyone agrees with you.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You're concern is touching.

But where is your transparency?

You have none.

You brought nothing but lies.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

I am getting sleepy

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[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Oh and BTW, there's NO bitching about banned users.

Read the forums and the Twitter feeds. Hundreds of people are complaining of the bans and censorship here and on the official Occupy Twitter feeds. There are also many articles written about this in various blogs around the net by people who donated a lot of their time to Occupy. I'm sorry, but your head in hidden in the sand.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

twitter is ephemeral.

It could all be the same troll/s.

Indeed it must.

Here. Let's try a little transparency.

Have you ever posted here under another username?

What name/s were they?

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[-] -1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

The people who are against authoritarian ruling of Occupy are not trolls. They are occupiers who have given a lot of their time to the protest. They want one thing - more democracy. That's why they speak out against people taking over Occupy by force. This should not surprise you.

There are thousands of such people. Again, read the web. A lot is happening around this issue right now.

It's a real issue. The most important Occupy issue of the day. That's why thousands of people are writing about it. Get your head out of the sand.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

They aren't here man. They never where.

It's another lie anyway.

http://www.occupy.com/article/seeking-climatic-shift-uk-pension-investments-are-starting-undercut-big-oil

http://www.occupy.com/article/its-drought-and-climate-change-%E2%80%93-not-pot-growers-%E2%80%93-killing-salmon-humboldt

Climate.

http://www.occupy.com/article/warren-proposal-postal-banking-key-financial-reform-public-good

the USPS

http://www.occupy.com/article/occupy-activist-faces-7-year-jail-term-%E2%80%9Cassault%E2%80%9D-police-officer

A nasty trial.

http://www.occupy.com/article/day-we-fight-back-21114-worldwide-protests-end-mass-surveillance

the new bar at the bottom of the page.

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/winning-wisconsin

Wisconsin

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/nine-arguments-debt-refusal

Debt refusal.

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/we-will-not-be-intimidated-freetheenbridge3

The enbridge 3

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/i-feel-sorry-people-who-dont-live-detroit

Detroit

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/justine-tunney-debacle-occupywallstorg

Yep. There's one. One that's a lot more informative and understanding then anything you've offered up yet.

Also included in the news feed , the march against the teabagge(R)s

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/justine-tunney-debacle-occupywallstorg

The Zeitgeist of Tahrir

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/21776-the-zeitgeist-of-tahir-and-occupy

Privatization riots in Bosnia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/bosnia-privatization-protests-reach-other-cities/2014/02/06/4907df00-8f65-11e3-878e-d76656564a01_story.html

There's several more on foreclosures.

It would seem to be you who has lost touch.

I don't see a comment from you on any of those subjects here on the forum.

That's very curious.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

So you're going to go evasive?

And continue to cast aspersions from on high?

Some of our most notorious trolls spent considerable time and effort lobbying against democracy.

Do you remember them?

were you perhaps, one of them?

Can you name one?

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

You shouldn't put all the people you consider "trolls" in the same basket. I'm against anyone who wants less democracy. I am for more democracy. I despise those who want to control others, and that's why I'm talking about them.

I believe anarchy can be used to control this forum and the Twitter account. Control should be given out by a democratic voting process, and people in control should be rotated once in a while.

Are you against those ideas?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Can you name one?

That's all I asked.

You should hate them.

You should hate yourself too then, because it's you at this point trying to control the forum.

Plus you're not being honest.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

How is posting comments trying to control the forum? I cannot ban anyone, censor anyone, nor do I wish to be able to. I welcome discussion and debate. I want to hear various ideas. Are you saying people who publish comments are trying to control the forum? WTF man?

To be honest, your deflections and red herrings lead me to believe you have no arguments against my ideas. If you had strong arguments to explain why it's OK for a few people to control Occupy, then you would have shared them already.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

They aren't here man. They never where. It's another lie anyway. http://www.occupy.com/article/seeking-climatic-shift-uk-pension-investments-are-starting-undercut-big-oil http://www.occupy.com/article/its-drought-and-climate-change-%E2%80%93-not-pot-growers-%E2%80%93-killing-salmon-humboldt Climate. http://www.occupy.com/article/warren-proposal-postal-banking-key-financial-reform-public-good the USPS http://www.occupy.com/article/occupy-activist-faces-7-year-jail-term-%E2%80%9Cassault%E2%80%9D-police-officer A nasty trial. http://www.occupy.com/article/day-we-fight-back-21114-worldwide-protests-end-mass-surveillance the new bar at the bottom of the page. http://occupywallstreet.net/story/winning-wisconsin Wisconsin http://occupywallstreet.net/story/nine-arguments-debt-refusal Debt refusal. http://occupywallstreet.net/story/we-will-not-be-intimidated-freetheenbridge3 The enbridge 3 http://occupywallstreet.net/story/i-feel-sorry-people-who-dont-live-detroit Detroit http://occupywallstreet.net/story/justine-tunney-debacle-occupywallstorg Yep. There's one. One that's a lot more informative and understanding then anything you've offered up yet. Also included in the news feed , the march against the teabagge(R)s http://occupywallstreet.net/story/justine-tunney-debacle-occupywallstorg The Zeitgeist of Tahrir http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/21776-the-zeitgeist-of-tahir-and-occupy Privatization riots in Bosnia. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/bosnia-privatization-protests-reach-other-cities/2014/02/06/4907df00-8f65-11e3-878e-d76656564a01_story.html There's several more on foreclosures. It would seem to be you who has lost touch. I don't see a comment from you on any of those subjects here on the forum. That's very curious. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink | Mod: ban comments threads admin edit remove [-] 0 points by shooz (26946) 3 hours ago So you're going to go evasive? And continue to cast aspersions from on high? Some of our most notorious trolls spent considerable time and effort lobbying against democracy. Do you remember them? were you perhaps, one of them? Can you name one?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

can't read

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

This is just a forum.

Or hadn't you noticed?

You keep hiding lies and evasion in your rhetoric.

So yeah.

WTF man.

Do you have any other issues?

Any at all?

[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

You don't think democracy is important in Occupy?

If there's a problem with the forum, then it's normal to want to talk about it.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You are the problem.

How long have you been the problem?

Under how many usernames?

What are they?

Only then can we know the truth.

Oooooops.

You're also an admitted and unrepentant liar.

You time is growing short. But you knew that.

You expected that.

You wanted that.

You crave it.

Hey>??

How many times have you been tossed from the forums at Glenn becks place?

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[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Indeed. A forum is for discussion and debate. That's what I am here for. That's why I use well formed arguments instead of red herrings and ad hominem.

Do you have any other issues?

I don't think a person should have x amount of issues to be able to address Occupy. I do have many issues, but at the moment I find this authoritarian problem is the most important issue facing Occupy and that is why I wish to talk about it. I am doing so on a posting that is dedicated to that issue. I am on topic. If you do not wish to talk about this issue, then do not reply to my comments. Nothing stops you from creating postings on other issues and discussing other issues with other people.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

As I said, all you need is a forum to discuss forums.

It's all you do, It's all you've ever really done.

You should start one.

One trick pony = you.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

I find this authoritarian problem is the most important issue facing Occupy and that is why I wish to talk about it.

as washington can no longer be taken seriously

what issues should the mainstream media be talking about ?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

A forum discussing the forum is all you want.

You could discuss, discussing with yourself all day there. go write it quick.

If your logic was anymore circular, you'd already be rolling out the door.

Here.

Have an actual issue.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/02/05-9

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?

You're the expert that lies with a purpose.

You're the guy that pretends to know all and see all that has ever been on the forum.

Yet you find it impossible to honestly answer even one question about it.

You either know, or you don't know.

which is it?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

It's not looking good.

does it ever?

there's always I reason I am discounted

[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

When you have arguments to defend your position that authoritarian leadership is better than democracy feel free to open up the debate again. I don't see the point in answering all your red herrings and other nonsense. It's really boring. Just switch to your secret language or something. Isn't that the next step when you have no arguments?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

There's no argument here.

You're concern trolling.

When I proved your aspersion false you didn't respond, you just changed tactics.

It's concern trolling and you should end it soon.

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[-] -1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

There's no argument here. You're concern trolling. When I proved your aspersion false you didn't respond, you just changed tactics. It's concern trolling and you should end it soon.

My argument is extremely simple. Occupy should strive to create more democracy in all its endeavours, not less. Jart's taking over the Twitter account is leading towards less democracy, not more. This is the wrong path. Here is a way to fix the problem on this forum:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-simple-idea-to-fix-some-issues-on-this-forum/

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You know what?

You just lied again.

I checked on some of the threads on exactly that topic.

Guess what?

Not a word from you, nor anything from any of your "suspected" puppets.

In fact it was mostly posted to by people you don't like very much.

Since you won't tell us who they are. You get platy at your own personal Twilight Zone.

Yep.

Lying.

Concern trolling.

It's not looking good.

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[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

sometimes people are dishonest in order to create an opposition which a poster is expected to react to

these contradictions can often be persistent and impossible to ignore

the heart is lost when it understands that the antagonist knows that they are lying but won't admit it

the pursuit of contradiction replaces the pursuit of truth

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Huh?

Hmmm......pro-lies.

You're correct, lies are hard to ignore. Very attention getting.

They're still lies though.

How many have you told so far?

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

I don't

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Sure, but who is I?

be careful, or you might.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

???

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

der

what's forced authority ?

Luke

use the forced authority

[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

You did not hear what happened to the Twitter account? Jart changed the password so other occupiers who were using it could not use it anymore. She undemocratically took control of the Twitter feed for herself. The other example I gave is this forum where the mods have taken over to the point of censoring and banning almost everyone except themselves. There's also the news feed problem where many writers have been shut out by jart who single-handedly controls whatever will be published.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

I lost my youtube account that way

I'm not sure who's got the keys

google might

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

Hope you get it back. That sucks.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

google was trying to move into e mail when separate e mail already functions

they do offer free online spreadsheets which microsoft pulled out from under the poor computer user

I don't know if it does graphics

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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Lack of Dialog about the lack of transparency on this site

Not so - U R plenty transparent - and so no need to discuss Ur intent to continue to attack this site.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

They come, they cast aspersions and then they go.

Every time I ask them for transparency they get mad at me.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Well to cut em a small break - any more transparency in their attacks on this site and OWS in general and they would be more transparent than air - and no - not like Salt Lake City air during a prolonged inversion either. {:-])

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Clearer then the Dan River. Hey, what happened to that guy who said he was swimming in it, basking in the laser sight aura of the rich people across the river? Or at least the laser aura of their security guards.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Hey, what happened to that guy who said he was swimming in it, basking in the laser sight aura of the rich people across the river?

In a hospice due to skin absorbed toxins?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Could be. He was all on about how they were going to "trickle down" upon him.

I guess he get tricked........:)

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Tricked into a toxic trickle? Like - apparently - officials would have the public of W Virginia?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

What is disturbing - IS - How many individuals Dr.'s Lawyers Chemists etc etc etc Know about pollution it's toxins and their insinuation into every part of our ( and Their ) lives - the differing ways that these toxins are killing us "ALL" - and their continued silence.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Good question.

Some do, but not nearly enough.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Some do, but not nearly enough.

What keeps them silent? They and their families are dieing too. Is it that while they and theirs die that they are comfortable in their terminal lifestyles?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

I guess some figure you should read the pamphlets on healthy life styles.

They can't make you.

Many years ago, I told my doctor I drank. ( I quit almost as many years ago). When I told him how much, he looked awed and said I probably shouldn't drink that much. Then he took a lot of blood. Ran the tests, and was awed that I was still OK.

They look for and treat symptoms, in the hope for a cure..

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

They look for and treat symptoms, in the hope for a cure.

"THEY" have got to know - that - they are only applying band-aids - any cure happened - mostly - on it's own - BY ACCIDENT!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

I think it is the age old disease - Denial - it can't happen to me - this stuff only happens to others.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

seems pointless to say banks don't need to exist when they clearly have and do

the idea being investing in things to imrove the world

but one wonders if theses actions could have taken place without owing a bunch of loan interest

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

banks only provided money so it can be exchanged for goods are services

in today's tracking abilities , banks are not needed

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Now there's your problem - you are thinking - Old School. Mega Banks mod-us operand i these days is to steal as much as possible from as many as possible - no wonder your applications for employment are failing.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

denial is my job prospects

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

So - U R planning to be a mega bank loan officer? - Denying extensions help or even just the initial loan?

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[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

That is pretty funny when you put it that way.

I don't know what to think of Jart. I really liked that video, Politics is a Subterfuge. But let me get this straight, she works for Google? I know that doesn't have to mean anything, but it could.

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[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Makes sense.

Yeah, I can't figure out how banning this post could have a good reason. If somebody challenges your authority you should answer that challenge, not hide from it. Either way you're putting in some effort.

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[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 10 months ago

Cheers. My bed time, thanks for a good note. Best luck, dog. Have fun.

[-] 1 points by puff6964 (-33) 10 months ago

This thread is just symptomatic of our problems as a cause. We can't stop fighting amongst ourselved and therefore can't organize. We better get together or we will lose the mid-terms.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago
[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

It's called concern trolling.

It's done to keep others from talking about actual issues.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

No one is stoping you from talking about any issue you want. This posting concerns a legitimate issue, and the comments on this page should remain on that topic. If you want to talk about something else please create another posting or comment in one of the other thousands of postings concerning other issues.

Do you know what concern trolling is? By definition, it's based on real concerns. Whether you consider this post a troll post or not does not matter. Many people consider this a real issue. A very important issue. Why should you be the one to decide which issues are important and which ones are not? Let the users decide.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You are that definition.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

How so? Am I polluting your threads like you are trying to pollute this one? I'm not bothering you at all in your other threads. You're the one coming on this posting to bother it and try to deflect it off topic.

Like I said, if this issue does not interest you, then just ignore it. Go post and comment about something else.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You're an admitted liar.

Unrepentant, at that.

How is that NOT being a red herring?

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[-] -1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

You didn't talk about the issue raised in this posting once. All your comments here are deflections. Shame on you. A moderator should work to keep postings on topic and to create a strong community. You do the opposite in both cases.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

What do you know about modding?

Nothing.

You're still a red herring.

Your best thing is lying, you've already admitted.it

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[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

a real issue should be kept afloat by its supporters

if people genuinely care about it

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

This issue is the most important at the moment since thousands of people are writing about it on net blogs, Twitter feeds and here.

People should be allowed to discuss the issues they care about, not only the issues deemed popular by some. This posting got a lot of comments, so it does seem like a very popular issue anyhow.

Thanks for being one of the users that keeps it alive. Your comments here are welcomed as they not only serve to instruct, but also bump this crucial posting back to the top where it belongs.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

exactly

should support itself

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[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

You know what? Get over yourselves. Nobody is forcing to you to like or dislike what Jart has said or done or what decisions that she has made. You do need to pull your heads out of your asses and treat her with the dignity of being human. If you have a personal bitch then pm her.

Don't think that a good portion of us are going to sit idly by and listen to continuously try to exploit the situation for your own little game.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

I don't think anyone is trying to exploit the situation for personal gain. People are just worried/complaining/surprised/sad etc.... because many of them have worked hard for Occupy thinking it was a movement based on community and anarchy. What jart did was against Occupy principles. She hijacked the Occupy Twitter account for personal use. It doesn't matter if she founded Occupy. What she is doing is going against what Occupy is all about.

I think it's important to call things like this out. We need to stay vigilante. One part of building community is to deal with problems within the community. If many people drop Occupy because it has become based on authoritarian leadership instead of community and anarchy, then we have a big problem and we need to be able to talk about it openly.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

BS. You could have gone to the Reddit thread and expressed yourself. You didn't. There comes a point when you stop dealing with your grievance and resort to trashing someone. I am making the assumption that you graduated high school. There really is no need to revisit that time period.
So, considering the fact that you recently joined shows exactly how much you care/d. You're attempting to exploit a situation for your very own personal gain. That's pretty disgusting.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Vigilantes don't build a thing.

They tear things up needlessly.

Thanks for pointing out that you are one.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

I meant vigilant, not vigilante. My mistake. My browser does word completion and got it wrong. I should have noticed, but didn't. Again, very sorry.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

It doesn't make a lot of difference.

Your attitude is more vigilante than vigilant anyway.

This whole thread is a vigilante attempt. Hate filled spewings.

[-] 0 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

I don't find my attitude to be vigilante at all. I'm simply expressing an opinion and using arguments to back it up. Are you afraid of the ideas of others? I believe it's good to have many points of view. If my ideas bother you, then you can provide arguments against them. Maybe you are correct, but I can't know since you haven't provided any arguments as to why people should have authoritarian power and not be rotated once in awhile.

Why are you against the idea of democratically electing people to admin this site and the Twitter feed, and to rotate them once in a while to keep it healthy? Why do you prefer the idea of having a few people control the show undemocratically and never being rotated?

Do you have arguments to back up your position, or do you only have deflections? All you have given so far are red herrings.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You're repeating yourself.

My position is that YOU came here to smear this site and it's founder.

And that's the only reason you came here.

That's not a red herring. That's the truth. That is my position.

You've provided nothing but unsubstantiated rhetoric.

That's the work of a vigilante. You were "right" the first time.

[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

You are entitled to your opinion. What else can I say but that I wish for more democracy on this site and on the Twitter feed. I do not believe it is good if one person controls Occupy on the web. I honestly believe democracy is very important. Occupy should always strive to increase democracy when possible. A very easy way to do that would be to have democratically elected mods on this site and Twitter, and to rotate them once in awhile. I'm not sure why you are against the principle of striving for more democracy? Care to explain?

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

I'm not going to repeat myself.

I told the truth about twitter.

You didn't.

I told the truth about other places in the network.

Gave you the links that disproved your aspersions.

So will you be getting the Koch money to back your election in the up coming election?

See. here's the thing. It's a big thing.

You haven't posting anything else of consequence anywhere else on the forum.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You're the ad hominem

You're the red herring.

You're the aspersion caster.

You're the concern troller.

It's clear.

There is nothing to argue.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 10 months ago

I attempted to create a discussion on it a little while ago, not just on what happened but also the backlash.

I don't have an opinion on what is going on with the twitter handle. I'm simply not close enough to the situation to talk to anyone, I've never met Justine in person. Can't exactly call her up and ask what her thoughts are. With me, that usually means I'm then relying on who/what/where of lord only knows what to make my opinion. I try not to do that.

The twitter reactions however are interesting to me.

Some like OccupyChicago said to stop worrying about it and stay focused. Many more are extremely hurt and feel like something they helped create was taken from them (again, private property being the root of all evil in some anarchists minds). Both sides have cases, we'll see how this turns out.

The lacking of discussion you are speaking of is why I proposed a complete redirection of this section, perhaps only for a little while. The reason forums are decent-imo- for stuff like this is the ability to build on others thoughts, openly, with others, over time. I'm aware of occupytogether and interoccupy. Facebook and twitter are good at spreading the word or generating buzz, but the reply features aren't too conducive to real building.

But again, when you search Occupy Wall Street this site comes up first, and that means something. It means anyone not terribly familiar with it- most of the public- is coming here to check it out.

The news articles of late have been terrific, great stuff.

But inevitably the reader will land here, at which point......

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 10 months ago

Regardless of whether you agree with me or not, at least this is a conversation on organizing, something I appreciate.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

looks like it may be another deadline

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[-] 1 points by djangojames (52) from North Bergen, NJ 10 months ago

So far I haven't been banned around here, which either means the moderation is pretty laid back, or completely partisan, but I will leave that for others to decide.

Completely partisan is my vote. Here's a simple way to fix that:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-simple-idea-to-fix-some-issues-on-this-forum/

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Why is it trolls are never transparent?

Is it possible for troll to be transparent?

Those are great questions

What does transparent even mean in this context?

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Some of them have actual troll trailer clowns.

You can see their auto blocked posts all over the place.

That's always a tell for me.

This one though? It posted some allegations and disappeared.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

The IF is Zendog's

I was looking for a way to set a condition requirement apart

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

you used IF in a post

a copied that marker handle

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

That was me, in a conversation with flip.

It was a big IF too.

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