Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: It's Obama's fault - isn't it always

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 21, 2012, 8:13 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

the world did not end!


21 Comments

21 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Obviously Fox News is bullshit...

But so is accepting money from Goldman Sachs and then voting to give them billions of dollars.

It's not just Obama, they use that as a shadow for the rest of the Wall Street government that refuses to question capitalism.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Personally, I don't think Wall Street really represents capitalism, but rather imperialism, the philosophy of empire. Many people think of Adam Smith as the founder of capitalism, but he was really just a spokesman for the British empire.

I'm just starting to understand this myself, but the perspective that I'm getting is that capitalism was originally intended to be a way for a working person to accumulate some capital, through a well payed job, and then buy property, such as a house, a farm or tools, and and start his own business.

Capitalism was intended to create a large number of small businessmen, like this, some of which would develop into what we recognize as medium sized businesses today, providing well paid jobs to others. Huge corporations are more a product of imperialism than of capitalism. That is, they are put together by old, aristocratic money.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Most jobs are pyramid schemes.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Pyramids are called "schemes" when they make offers that aren't really feasible. Most people, for example, just don't have the aptitude to do sales, so they aren't really capable of earning the money that such "pyramid" schemes offer in their promotions.

In other pyramids, "legitimate businesses", people are capable of doing the work and earning the money offered. In such cases, if the worker is paid a fair wage, why would that be a problem?

A fair wage, in a capitalist system, is one that would allow the worker to support himself at a reasonable level, while at the same time accumulating some "capital" so as to be able to participate in the capitalist system.

This could just mean earning enough money to buy a house. In the old days, feudal times, there was a strict separation between the classes that owned land and the classes that didn't. Capitalism was intended to provide mobility between classes so that "common" people could also become land owners.

Or, they could accumulate the capital, as well as the skills necessary, to buy the tools and equipment to start a business. This commonly happened, and still does, in factories where workers acquire high levels of skill, earn a very high wage, $30 an hour and up, and then become contractors, have a few people working for them, and provide high level work to a number of factories.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

"Work hard and work your way up and get paid more." Then maybe 20 years later they cut your benefits and you're practically making less because of inflation. Let me know when you become CEO at one of the big corporations. That is the pyramid scheme.

I'm all for a living wage law too. One that would be analyzed and adjusted every year.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

That's what happens these days, when we are no longer living in a capitalist system. Imperialism has taken over our country, which is basically a criminal system that robs national economies.

If we were living under conditions that existed in America around sixty years ago, the situation would be quite different. Something like 30% of the workers would have well paid jobs in manufacturing, in which they would be able to buy homes, and cars, and send their kids to college, while at the same time accumulating capital, in order to create an even better future.

Our task now is to overthrow imperialism, like we did in 1776, in order to re-establish real capitalism.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Obama supports a constitutional amendment to overturn citizen united
I don't like ANYONE getting corp money
but playing by the rules is the ONLY way to be elected


50 years ago, tennis rackets were not high tech
since high tech is now legal, do you feel the pros should not use
high tech rackets?


the problem is the players -
not the politicians -
but the people like us who can't get the rules changed.


if GS did not own our government - WE THE PEOPLE WOULD

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Again Obama, like many other politicians (from Paul Ryan to Boehner to Biden) accepted money from the banks, and then voted to give them billions of dollars and support monetary policy giving them trillions of dollars.

The bailouts were driven by fear, not fact.

I'm sick of the Wall Street government.

I agree the problem ultimately lies with Wall Street. But I'm not going to give any fuck working for them a free-pass. Quite the contrary, I'm going to speak against them. Expose them for what they are.

WE'RE STILL IN AFGHANISTAN FOR THE TRILLIONS IN RESOURCES

I will believe Obama supports something when he votes yes on it. Instead of supporting crippling a civilian economy in Iran through sanctions similar to Iraq in the 90's.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

he CANNOT vote "yes" on it until 2/3 of the house & 2/3 of the senate and 3/4 of the states vote "yes"
he may be lying about supporting the amendment -
but I believe he is telling the truth

what are you willing to do to put him in the actual position to "vote yes or no" ?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You're forgetting he was a senator in 2008 and voted YES as a senator.

He became president in 2009. He won the election in 2008.

Unless you're talking about the amendment and not the billions given to Goldman Sachs.

In regards to the amendment, I've called, written, and protested government officials in my state.

My congressmen works for Transcanada though. So his office gives no fucks about what the people want.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Maybe I was not clear - I'm referencing voting "yes" to overrule citizens united SCOTUS decision (2010) with an amendment
and added-
very few people in congress work for you or me

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

added on to comment before you replied. It is updated.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Well most everyone I hang with was slamming Bush for 8 years, myself included.

We just thought the current guy may have an ounce of leadership. Guess not. Accepting corporate bribes from insurance, banks and oil makes it hard to stay true.

Lesson learned. Will not repeat.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I would not vote for Obama next time either
did Obama do anything that you liked? that you thought helped America ?

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Really helped? Or kind of was a crumb thrown to a few causes?

Last I knew we campaigned on universal, not forced corporatism, with healthcare. That is going to be an awful move in the wrong direction for a very long time to come.

I was glad troops got out of Iraq, but it was planned ahead of time.

Dont ask repeal was good, but it falls horribly short. Kind of another crumb. Lilly isnt going to do much for equal wages when ALL wages are being held down via banking scams. Again, another crumb that looks good, feels good, and doesnt really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

I was all about Hope and Change. Myself, along with many others at Occupy, feel like suckers.

I think after he is done, that the best thing we will have done is open up America's eyes that they dont have a party. The Republicans are well on their way to losing all their normal, conservative Americans. The Dems are well on their way to losing all the leftists. Hopefully Obama will put the final nail in the coffin and we can regain our independence through a massive awakening.

[-] -1 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

next time? we have a 2 term limit on the presidency.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Oh! I did not know that - are you sure?

[-] 0 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

your sarcasm aside, it's the 22nd amendment, ratified in 1951

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Hilarious. Fox is spreading the fear mongering lies that are responsible for scaring people into buying more guns and creating the circumstances for great risk and potential tragedy.

[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

In fact Obama is at fault for a lot that is wrong right now,denying this is just plain disingenuous and blaming Fox News is just total propaganda.

Posting comics is just kind of lame.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Isn't Fox News owned by Wall Street, just like Obama?

Different media outlets may take on different roles, as conservative or liberal, but I think they are all just working for the same money.