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Forum Post: Is It Time for a Tactical Change?

Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 26, 2011, 7:04 p.m. EST by joseph (6)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Here is something I have been thinking about lately, with all the police move-ins of the past days. This is something maybe for you guys to consider and bring up in your GAs if you agree with me. (Please read it all, or at least most of it, before responding.)

The "Occupy" (insofar as actually camping out) gimmick has reached about the end of whatever good it can do, in my opinion. It appears it can only become increasingly counter-productive. It's taking the focus off of the issues we are really about and putting focus on the clashes between police and protestors. That doesn't exactly help any since it makes those in the public who are for us even more for us and those who are against us even more against us.

Obviously when the first protestors began in NYC, they didn't necessarily think it would grow to have the awareness of the world upon it like it is now. If you think about what really happened, we all jumped on board the "Occupy" bandwagon, just like we would do with the "trends that are hot this summer", without thinking of the implications of many people camping out in many areas. It served its purpose with the initial protest, by drawing attention to itself and unexpectedly ballooning with support. But I think it is probably time to dial back on that aspect--or at least to do so would best serve the cause.

There are many in the public who say that we deserve whatever crackdown we get by foolhardily occupying these locations. You have to keep in mind that it only serves to give the police more "reason" to crack down on us and further solidifying the opinions of some of the public against us.

Another thing is that being in these very vulnerable groups 24/7 will attract some people who are only looking for trouble or, say, to rape and cause fights. Whether or not this has anything to do with us, REGARDLESS of how sanitary we keep the areas, it will still reflect badly on us in public opinion, and we are just giving them fodder for no other reason than "this is the way it started out".

REMEMBER: the first step of this battle we are fighting is largely an informational war. We need to think about what messages we are projecting via the basic organization of how this movement works, just as the politicians would.

I think that assembling every day and then going back to wherever we are from won't hurt the cause any, and could only help it really, by giving the oligarchs less of a "reasonable" reason for showing a stern hand, and by garnering more support if they still decide to attack us. By continuing to occupy these areas, we are in the end only helping them by giving them this "justification".

We can be a peaceful movement, by all means, and even still Occupy all these locations daily, but the camping out seems a bit superfluous. We need to show ourselves to be very flexible depending on what is thrown at us, and try our best to get the widest support possible. Changing our ideas in order to get that support isn't possible, but changing our tactics very well is.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not on the ground with you all, so I can't say all this with 100% certainty. Maybe by not being on the ground, I am missing something that is very vital. I'm sure it would give rise to other issues as well, such as maybe some who are at the protests have no place to go. But it would help solve the issue of the upcoming flu season to at least some extent, and allow for some of the donations that would go toward vaccination and other medical issues to be used to find some sort of lodging for such people. I'm sure we can all figure out something if we work together. :)

One last thing, it is NOT admitting defeat to discontinue the camp-outs. If we are to be noble and respectful about this and truly hope for it to be a peaceful movement, then there is no reason to not change our tactics. Because as it stands, we all know what they are going to do in an increasing fashion, and sticking around and bracing for it is only putting our brothers and sisters at risk of harm.

I figure if you agree with me, then maybe you could help convey the message for others to bring up in their GAs. Each location's needs are specific, so it should be up to each to decide what is best to continue their message.



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[-] 1 points by joseph (6) 11 years ago

I think a fellow said it better and more succinctly than I could have hoped to with this:

"I agree our focus right now should be on developing and fleshing out these new social institutions. I think we should be conscious about getting to the point where we don't need the occupations to sustain our institutions, but we shouldn't end the occupations until we get to that point. As long as we require the occupations to sustain our general assemblies (and associated working groups), we will necessarily have a precarious political position. I can't speak for anywhere but Tucson: in Tucson, we're not ready to end the occupation. We need more time."

I figure it is best to be realistic and mindful of Plan Bs. There is strength in numbers- the more of us there are, the less likely we are to forget about a potential weakness within us.

We must indeed be very mindful of Martial Law, and I think avoidance of it is one of the main reasons we should look to change our tactics. I thought the whole idea was to have a peaceful movement, not to just stake out in a certain place and ignore the city saying "Please don't camp there", just waiting and bracing for the inevitable showdown...

[-] 1 points by AtomicZ (149) 11 years ago

YES ... past due at this point ... the police are taking away the media limelight from Occupy... take it back - waaaay back - gather the few beginners together [ the guys that started this thing ] and agree all of the "Occupy" cities should send representatives from each city [ first wave ] to Occupy DC TOMORROW!!! - Joining all of the Occupy cities together in DC now with the same style banners, locations, etc of the two major political conventions... The Occupy Convention!! This should start the drama in DC - You do not have to give up any ground in the cities where you are demonstrating - You must show solidarity of these cities since the police are now suppressing the people into violent sound bites [ hell the cops go to classes & have college degrees on this type of demonstration busting ] I write plays believe me this Occupy Play needs a "through line now" peace AtomicZ...

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

more or less i agree with this.

I'm still the proud owner of 3 citations for occupying dela guerra plaza, to show solidarity and support for OWS... but ultimately... camping out is merely a symbolic gesture and isn't really accomplishing anything productive.

the real game and the real work have yet to start. I shouldn't be busting my ass mostly alone a whole month later on a wiki- we should have had a wiki up day one. I shouldn't be doing all the right action and real work alone..

the real game is an information revolution - a paradigm shift. protesting and camping out is merely a means to the end to avoid doing the homework.

The real revolution has yet to start. It begins when we get busy en masse with our noses in textbooks.

it begins when we truly start open source direct democracy problem solving.

the real question is how will one tenth of one percent of the population convince 98 percent of the population to join them.

Protesting will NEVER accomplish that.








[-] 1 points by OccupyUnveiled (21) 11 years ago

Interesting perspective joseph... would you like to write a full length article about this? Please email me at OccupyUnveiled@live.com | #OccupyUnveiled is an independent news source regarding OWS and its affiliates. Neither for nor against OWS, we seek truth where ever it may lead us.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

The occupations need to be in reponse to specific demand made pursuant to law. I suggest that most governments are so unlawful, that the ultimate democratic control over the constitution, article 5, needs to be exercised to even begin to deal with it.----

Congress is very afraid of an Article 5 because the states can have total control IF 3/4 of them are agreeing in ratification.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."

Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.

Article. V.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.-------


[-] 0 points by owstag (508) 11 years ago

Well, yeah; how the hell does camping in city parks put pressure on anyone to do anything? It's inane. It's not admitting defeat to get beyond the silly campouts, it's acknowledging the reality that they're pointless. Unfortunately, it's not real clear what SHOULD be done to transform this energy and momentum into an effective movement for reform.

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

yes, it is clear. i have put the real game on the table. its very clear. we need to regroup on the wiki, leave the occupies to the day time and keep a very small presence going in the day time for networking and publicity purposes and then get our political platform together, run a third party, kick all of the bozos out of office, and then have an article 5 convention. is VERY clear... all thats needed is for everyone to stop talking past each other and wake up.

Just like they all want to be heard and are right and stil lget ignored... i am to the occupy movement what the occupy movement is to civilization- the lone voice of sanity crying out and being silenced via noise and ignorance and distraction.

the moment everyone listens to me is the moment a real revolution can start. until then, this is not a revolution, its a viral movement without a chance of every accomplishing anything in objective reality.

More importantly, the clock is ticking down to when they will begin using plants to start faked riots, and then martial law.

What nobody seems to understand is that these protests play into the fema fame plan to exterminate us all. The concentration camps are already built.



[-] 1 points by owstag (508) 11 years ago

I was with you through the first paragraph. Then it became clear with your narcissistic delusions of grandeur (e.g. "i am to the occupy movement what the occupy movement is to civilization- the lone voice of sanity crying out...") and your tin foil hat paranoia (e.g. "The concentration camps are already built") that you are severely disturbed.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

right, quite the opposite. society is insane, civilization is insane, ows is half mad, and i'm the voice of reason.

the concentration camps ARE factually already built. apparently you didn't bother to click the links.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 11 years ago

You are correct. The camps are real, anyone who doesn't know this should maybe put the game controller down and start paying attention. The powers are indeed salivating at the prospect to use any excuse necessary to invoke martial law, in fact they've been getting it in place for at least five years, maybe more. Too many citizens spend far too much time watching mindless drivel like "Dancing with the Stars" and "Judge Judy." they are completely clueless as to what this country has become. Easier to live in the past.

However, you are not the only one getting things done, although you are definitely in the minority. therising is another one that seems, from what I gather, to be moving things forward. Many of us don't have the knowledge base in regards to politics and the Constitution that you guys do, that's why I'm trying to educate myself in that regard so I can take a more active role in this down the road. You are the standard bearers of this movement. Keep it up.