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Forum Post: Infectious disease insurgencies

Posted 8 years ago on July 26, 2014, 8:50 a.m. EST by grapes (5232)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Infectious diseases have made strong comebacks but our defenses such as antibiotics are dwindling. In this jet age, the citizens of Netherlands turned out to be right on top of warring Eastern Ukraine and were murdered. We are all targets of the infectious disease insurgencies spread globally sometimes at jet speeds. Deadly Ebola flies to Nigeria.

What can we do? What should we do to prevent pandemics?



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[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

The developed world has far less to fear because of our easy access to clean water and modern sanitation practices. However, we should enact new guidelines here in America DRASTICALLY reducing our use of antibiotics. They should be reserved exclusively for cases where the patient is unable to recover from a life threatening condition without them. I'm aware of the grey area here but doctors have been prescribing antibiotics for minor skin infections, simple colds, and other minor ailments for many years. Their unnecessary use weakens the body's natural immune system and they promote the development of antibiotic resistant strains.

The guidelines should be changed for virtually all drugs on the market.

The undeveloped world would benefit from abundant supplies of clean water, indoor plumbing, better sanitation practices, and birth control to reduce the high density of many populations. These improvements would work much greater wonders than any medical intervention. Not that I'm against basic healthcare. I'm not. It's vital. But the keyword there is 'basic'. As I explained in the first paragraph, too much is no good.

Sorry grapes. I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that you were hoping for an answer more beneficial to the healthcare industry. You won't get it from me. That industry has become a disgusting bloated pig.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

I agree with all that you have written but restrictions should be somewhat flexible. Regarding the bloated pig part, both China and India lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. They attended to public health and traded with the U.S. ALL other countries spend less per capita than the U.S. on medical care. The problem with the U.S. is that its medical care industry is NOT, I repeat, NOT a HEALTH care industry. Japan spends much less than the U.S. and has far better outcome, not to mention Canada just next door with the same British heritage on the same continent.

We spend the most but we come in so-so in outcome. Our minds have been screwed by this "rich, fertile," white-Negro crap. The land of the Louisiana Purchase was disease-ridden, too. Our forefathers tamed it because they believed that they could! We had malaria, typhoid fever, yellow fever, etc. even in New York City but we did PUBLIC works and PUBLIC health and the diseases were tamed. Another example is Singapore. It is very tropical like Africa but they did PUBLIC works and PUBLIC health and traded with the U.S.

In the beginning, all were 100% poor but that was and still is being whittled away. A bloated pig is good for the slaughter yielding much pork! How about Medicare expansion to cover basic health care? The U.S. is still the one-and-only country in the developed world which has no national health care coverage for all of its citizens.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

It's nice to find unexpected common ground with you.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

We are all humans and despite the idiotic racial myths we are all Africans. Hell hole Africa was but like New York City, Singapore, etc., Africa does NOT have to stay a hell hole.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I realize that we are all Africans but the homeland of our ancestors was not dealt a good hand by Mother Nature. I'm aware of the somewhat prosperous regions but in general, Africa is hot, dry, and short on fresh water. Otherwise, with it's oldest populous, the oldest on Earth, it would have become the most developed country on Earth.

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Africa has massive amounts of underground water reservoirs found recently. Estimated to be enough for 9 billion people. There is much investment, interference and chaos by the 0.01% in Africa in recent years. Funny how that works, isn't it? :-/




[-] 3 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Thanks for the info. I hope for the sake of those masses that someday they gain easy access to that underground water.

[-] 5 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

That won't happen until the ruling oligarchs have completed their various methods to destabilize the critical regions and swoop in for total control of those resources. Capitalist exploitation maximus. Until then, every excuse in the book will be hammered into the collective conscious via MSM indoctrination, to be eaten breakfast, lunch and dinner... as to all the reasons that the water is inaccessible. Yawn - isn't Honey Boo-Boo on soon?

[-] 5 points by turbocharger (1756) 7 years ago

Wasn't Ghadaffi in the process of building an aquaduct for the people before Obomber and the Dems came in and wrecked the entire country?

[-] 7 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Yep. He was doing it, too. Well on it's way. Nato blew it to pieces, saying it housed weapons.

Ghaddafi was ahead of his time. He provided the people with many things we don't have in North America. The West's propaganda machine worked overtime on Gaddafi.

Under Gaddafi:

  1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.

  2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at zero percent interest by law.

  3. Having a home considered a human right in Libya.

  4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 dinar (U.S.$50,000) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.

  5. Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25 percent of Libyans were literate. Today, the figure is 83 percent.

  6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kickstart their farms are all for free.

  7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need, the government funds them to go abroad, for it is not only paid for, but they get a U.S.$2,300/month for accommodation and car allowance.

  8. If a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidizes 50 percent of the price.

  9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per liter.

  10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amounting to $150 billion are now frozen globally.

  11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession, as if he or she is employed, until employment is found.

  12. A portion of every Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.

  13. A mother who gives birth to a child receive U.S.$5,000.

  14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $0.15.

  15. 25 percent of Libyans have a university degree.

  16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Manmade River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.

  17. Women’s Rights: Under Gaddafi, gender discrimination was officially banned and the literacy rate for women climbed to 83 per cent. The rights of Black’s were also improved.

To add to problems now facing those in Libya are the tons of DU dropped on them by US/NATO forces.

There was no DU before to make people sick, so now there will be numerous health problems never before seen in Libya.

  1. Libya is Africa’s largest exporter of oil, 1.7 million tons a day, which quickly was reduced to 300-400,000 ton due to US-NATO bombing.

Libya exports 80% of its oil: 80% of that to several EU lands (32% Italy, 14% Germany, 10% France); 10% China; 5% USA.

  1. Gaddafi has been preparing to launch a gold dinar for oil trade with all of Africa’s 200 million people and other countries interested. French President Nickola Sarkozi called this, “a threat for financial security of mankind”. Much of France’s wealth—more than any other colonial-imperialist power—comes from exploiting Africa.

  2. Central Bank of Libya is 100% owned by state (since 1956) and is thus outside of multinational corporation control (BIS-Banking International Settlement rules for private interests). The state can finance its own projects and do so without interest rates

  3. Gaddafi-Central Bank used $33 billion, without interest rates, to build the Great Man-Made River of 3,750 kilometers with three parallel pipelines running oil, gas and water supplying 70% of the people (4.5 of its 6 million) with clean drinking and irrigation water.

  4. The Central Bank also financed Africa’s first communication satellite with $300 million of the $377 cost. It started up for all Africa, December 26, 2007, thus saving the 45-African nations an annual fee of $500 million pocketed by Europe for use of its satellites and this means much less cost for telephones and other communication systems.

Some of the numbers above vary a bit from web site to web site but all are relatively close.

Great Man made River Project Libya Absolutely Amazing

The Great Man-Made River is a network of pipes that supplies water from the Sahara Desert in Libya, from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System fossil aquifer. Some sources cite it as the largest engineering project ever undertaken.

The Guinness World Records 2008 book has acknowledged this as the world’s largest irrigation project.

According to its website, it is the largest underground network of pipes and aqueducts in the world. It consists of more than 1300 wells, most more than 500 m deep, and supplies 6,500,000 m³ of freshwater per day to the cities of Tripoli, Benghazi, Sirt and elsewhere. Muammar al-Gaddafi has described it as the “Eighth Wonder of the World.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 7 years ago

Thats quite a list!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

For all these good things that Gadhafi did for Libya and Libyans, why did the Libyan people revolt against him?

Maybe he was too autocratic or did insufficient amount of indoctrination or propaganda. Maybe it was just Nature's Law of no good deeds can go unpunished.

[-] 3 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Sometimes, the injustice is enough to make me wish, just for a second, that a giant comet would smash into the Earth and render every human equal once and for all.

[-] 5 points by turbocharger (1756) 7 years ago

Over time you are going to get the same inequality in areas simply because people all prioritize different things.

If you prioritize partying, you are going to have a ton more stories than everyone else. Traveling? Lots more places. Smart kids? Your kids are probably going to get into better schools than others.

People make choices over the course of life, and usually there is one thing they kind of dedicate themselves to. Like activism. There's activists in Tampa that make someone like me look like a chump in terms of effort, but that is their #1 priority.

Same with money. If you make making money - and saving it instead of spending it on flat screen tvs and new shoes- your top priority, you are probably going to end up with a lot more of it from the time of 20 yr old to 50 yr old.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Your points are excellent. But it's the level of injustice regarding prosperity and access to it's life sustaining benefits that infuriates me. My only concerns regarding the fluffy benefits of prosperity are those related to the concentrated buying power and the excessive consumption of resources that a few of those fluffy benefits represent.

When some have too much, others will have too little. This will be true until the day our planet turns into a giant cupcake.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

We KNOW the formula to get to modernity and prosperity - just look around the world for good examples: Germany, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, China, and India. The most significant ones are China and India due to their huge populations.

Culture Matters! Political Correctness stifles discussions and holds people back. Freedom + Culture -> Inequality. With everyone wanting freedom, we get more inequality if culture does not guide well. I can tolerate inequality due to free choices but letting the people languish because of political correctness is unacceptable.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I have no problem whatsoever with some degree of inequality. But profound and AVOIDABLE inequality, makes me sick. Earth shattering greed makes by blood boil.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Greed must be tamed and harnessed for good.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Africa is vast. There are hot dry places as well as hot wet places and many other types of places. It is not Mother Nature that condemned Africa to poverty. In the beginning, ALL are poor but the Nile made Egypt rise as one of the earliest civilizations. Similarly, West Africa also had early prosperous civilization. Great populations did NOT just sprout from nothing. They are a kind of cumulative score card over time of how well the needs of the peoples were attended to. Numerous and prosperous rhyme for good reasons.

Development requires human efforts and imaginations in a background of peace. Africa was not left alone by European colonists.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Then why weren't the Africans slaughtered for their land instead of the Native Americans?

I'll tell you why. Comfortable climate, fertile land, and fresh water.

I'm not discounting your factors but regardless of effort, one can not score a home run with a rubber bat.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Africans were NOT slaughtered for their land instead of the Native Americans because of your ignorance. The U.S. will also have your protection against infectious diseases. God bless America!

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

How about a straight answer? Why weren't the Africans slaughtered for their land instead of the Native Americans ?

It's not 'my' protection. We have been dealt the greatest hand on Earth by Mother Nature. Otherwise we never would have become the well developed Super Power we are today.

In America, you are far more likely to get hit by a car than you are to contract Ebola. It's true now. It will be true until the fall of modern society. Which by the way, will come courtesy of greed. Not Ebola.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

The straight answer is that Africans were ALSO slaughtered for their land by the Europeans but the "American" school system churned out ignoramus of world history.

To a degree you are right that nature dealt the U.S. a good hand. The vast Mississippi Valley has NO gold. "Less is more" is at work here. The same applied to Costa Rica. Gold was found in California so that provided impetus to realize our "Manifest Destiny" only after the Mississippi Valley had been settled and worked on. Natural resources can be a curse to any country if there are greedy ones nearby. Yes, we need to kill or at least put greed on a strong leash.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

What approximate percentage of the African population was slaughtered for their land and what approximate percentage of that African land became occupied instead, primarily by people of European decent?

Perhaps it's just the churned out view of an American ignoramus but I do believe that a slightly higher percentage of Native Americans were slaughtered for their land and that a slightly higher percentage of that land became occupied instead, primarily by the white man. In fact, I do believe both percentages to have reached very high double digits before the slaughtering was done. In the view of this ignoramus, America became primarily white as a result.

Now how about those African percentages? Did Africa become primarily white also?

I wasn't referring to pretty material good for nothing but looking pretty and conducting electricity. I was referring to our comfortable climate, our fertile land, and the largest supply of fresh water in the world. In the view of this ignoramus, life sustaining conditions and resources benefit the human race a bit more than gold.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

I cannot account for the percentages of Africans slaughtered because Africa was invaded in so many different places by so many different European powers. Also at that time, there was not the census of African population which existed as various tribes. The European powers also fought each other in Africa using African troops of their colonies. They got killed by other Africans as well as other Europeans. Nonetheless, there were slaughters. South Africa was blessed but actually cursed for having ample natural resources of gold and diamonds. It is indeed true that there were wars such as Anglo-Zulu War, Boer Wars, etc.

The U.S. became predominantly white because of European immigration. Europeans never emigrated greatly to Africa except in South Africa because of Africa's tropical diseases and great desert. Their livelihood model did not fit Africa. For the U.S., the European livelihood model worked due to the climate derived from latitude. Besides, the U.S. used chemical weapons to conquer many diseases, including tropical ones in the Canal Zone.

The vast Mississippi Valley virtually had the sign over it that says, "Greed shall not enter. Work makes freedom." When the ancient aquifers' water is used up, the bread basket of the Mid-West will become empty. It was an advantage because the valley was sparsely populated by the native Americans. The U.S. was prone to avarice, too, if nature gave it the chance. California was annexed from Mexico probably due to the discovery of gold there.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I said, "Then why weren't the Africans slaughtered for their land instead of the Native Americans?

I'll tell you why. Comfortable climate, fertile land, and fresh water."

You said, "Africans were NOT slaughtered for their land instead of the Native Americans because of your ignorance."

When I requested a straight answer, you said, "The straight answer is that Africans were ALSO slaughtered for their land by the Europeans but the "American" school system churned out ignoramus of world history."

When I requested that you compare the relevant percentages, you FINALLY conceded my point by saying, "Europeans never emigrated greatly to Africa except in South Africa because of Africa's tropical diseases and great desert. Their livelihood model did not fit Africa. For the U.S., the European livelihood model worked due to the climate derived from latitude."

In other words, the land of Africa wasn't worth the trouble because of the UNcomfortable climate and INfertile land. The land of America was . That was my point to begin with.

and you still forgot to mention the supply of fresh water.

Shady politician-like debate tactics there grapes. Very shady.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

You are too ethnocentric. Comfort and fertility of a place are relative to the technological capabilities of the inhabitants. West Africa has great population because they have the means of sustaining the peoples there. It was not populated by Europeans because Europeans had not gone through genetic/tropical disease cullings en masse. They had died like flies and prudently got the message not to colonize there (the West Africans were genetically superior to the Europeans - "survival of the fittest" as some would mutter! Oh my God, they are at this moment pulling way ahead of the U.S. in Ebola immunity but our GREAT GREAT GREAT BIG BROTHER Texass is shielding us from this great embarrassment with its big ass. We at this moment got r_0 = 2, matching West Africa's and soon enough the U.S. will pull ahead beyond 2 in the next week. U.S.Ass #1 forever!).

Louisiana had tropical diseases like West Africa, too, but it became a part of the technologically capable U.S. which tamed the diseases with chemical weapons and modern medicine. The prairies were ideally suitable for European farming culture. The bisons and the cattle are not greatly different in their diets.

Both you and I will probably have great trouble living in the arctic like the Inuits but for the Inuits, the arctic feels like Home. CULTURE MATTERS! Deep down inside, every human being is a NAKED APE. In our natural state of nakedness, Africa was the most suitable as our home because it is warm enough. We seem to be designed for long-distance running in hot climate, with our almost-all-body liquid-and-evaporative-cooling system, highly efficient bipedal locomotion, and protein fibrous sun shield on top.

The Great Lakes, the Platte, Missouri, Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee, Columbia rivers all provide much fresh water but Africa also has ample fresh water in certain areas, too. Name or locate for me three great rivers, two lakes, and a glacier of Africa.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I've already acknowledged the regions of prosperity within Africa. Still, in general, it is hot and dry. By comparison, the United States are paradise.

I'm not here to play Jeopardy with you. If you insist on downplaying the profound geographical differences between the two countries, in particular, those which made this land worth stealing from the Native Americans, then go ahead. I can't stop you. But keep this in mind:

Those profound differences, in large part, led me to guarantee with absolute certainty, that Ebola in the US will never spread anywhere near as easily as it does in Africa.

My related points are being proven as we type.

There will be no Ebola pandemic anywhere in the United States. Not in the West. Not in the South. Not in Texas, Ohio, Louisiana or any other state.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23620) 7 years ago

3,000 Dead: "Ebola Death Toll In West Africa Passes 3,000: WHO"


This is the number one crisis in the world right now.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

It is growing exponentially, roughly doubling every three weeks. If the rate of new infections per infected case does not come down for a few months, nearly half of us may die from it. Awesome things such as bomb explosions, lasers, nuclear detonations, etc. follow exponential growths for a while. Russia IS Nuclear Armed as Putin said so it knows how to deal with exponential growths and we should be looking for Russian guidance.

The good thing is that there are few transmissions occurring outside of West Africa implying that the healthcare capabilities of many countries are up to the task of containing Ebola Virus Disease for now (but NOTHING can withstand exponential growths for long). A really scary possibility is that Ebola-Zaire mutates to transmit through the air like influenza (a different strain of Ebola, Ebola-Reston, now no longer classified under Ebola, already did in monkeys but it seemed to be incapable of human-to-human transmission). If that should occur, it would be Apocalypse!

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23620) 7 years ago

Ebola is a much bigger threat to humanity than any terrorist group.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

9/23 WHO data had ~3000 dead. If we assume the observed exponential growth rate to continue for a few months, there will be 6000 dead after 3 weeks, 12000 after 6 weeks, 24000 after 9 weeks, 48000 after 12 weeks, 96000 after 15 weeks, 192000 after 18 weeks, 384000 after 21 weeks, 768000 after 24 weeks, and 1536000 after 27 weeks.

By March 31st, 2015, 27 weeks from 9/23/2014 , or about 6 months from now, Ebola Virus Disease may have killed 1,536,000 people. Something has got to give (way).

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

You forgot to cut that growth factor by 95-99.9% for the developed world. Easy access to clean water, lighter population density, and modern sanitation practices change everything.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

This is precisely the complacency that doomed West Africa. Unfortunately, it may well be true that there will be huge number of Ebola cases in West Africa so we will have to fight an eternal war against Ebola worldwide. Europe will definitely have Ebola so will the U.S. If we do not want to live in a BSL-4 country in the future, we need to contain Ebola in Africa today.

It pays to fight an exponential growth curve in its early stage at its source.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I have no problem fighting hard to contain Ebola in Africa. But not because I'm afraid of it infecting the world. Because it's the right thing to do.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

The Texas hospital's readiness to handle Ebola has so far got r_0 = 2 matching West Africa's number. It is far better to have J.R. Ewing in West Africa than in Dallas again.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Here is a look at what our global snafu of "Failure of Imagination" may bring: the Grim Future if Ebola Goes Global.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

It won't. The evidence to support my position is compelling, overwhelming, and statistically certain. It's been 8 months now. With over 7 BILLION people on Earth, only about 10,000 have been infected with Ebola, fewer than 5,000 have died, and fewer than 20 outside of Africa have been infected. This IN SPITE of the reckless, irresponsible, REPEATED, ONGOING and COMMERCIALLY MOTIVATED attempts to deliver Ebola to America and other developed countries.

Those who stand to profit from widespread vaccinations, massive government purchases, HazMat sales, medical testing, and treatment of all the false alarm-tummy aches and runny noses WANT Ebola in America. They WANT Ebola to go global.

Those involved in the INTENTIONAL Ebola deliveries outside of Africa are doing everything they can to prevent flight banning and mandatory quarantines. Their pawns like Dr Craig Spencer and Kaci Hickox, whether complicit or not, have succeeded in spreading the Ebola fear necessary to drive those Ebola profits and transfer those Ebola fortunes. It has become painfully obvious that this is no accident.

I do not know how many people so far have been directly involved in the INTENTIONAL Ebola delivery to America and the First World but I am convinced that it must be at least two so far, who have had access to Ebola body fluids. My guess is that several more, at the very least, have been involved in the planning of Ebola deliveries. Of course, THOUSANDS have been involved in the ORGANIZED EFFORTS to spread the OUTRAGEOUS and IRRATIONAL fear of Ebola throughout America and the developed world. CH'CHING!

Grapes, I am not absolutely certain but I do not believe that your intentions are commercially motivated. It appears that you are just operating out of an abundance of caution. However, that abundance is helping to spread the fear of Ebola far outside West Africa where it belongs.

Ebola does not stand a chance in hell to become a pandemic in ANY developed country. The factors I mentioned a week ago, just above alone are enough to ensure it's utter failure to do so.

Unfortunately, the FEAR of Ebola is costing hundreds of thousands or possibly MILLIONS, of drug and doctor MORONS throughout America and the developed world more money as we type. It has almost certainly caused a few heart attacks, car accidents, lost jobs, ect. It most likely has caused a number of deaths. Not Ebola mind you, but the irrational fear of Ebola.

It will continue to wreak havoc until the people of America and the developed world calm down and GET A FUCKING GRIP ON REALITY. THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE MAULED BY RABID WARTHOGS.

Fewer than one out of every 500,000 Americans will fall to Ebola. In all likelihood, A WHOLE GOD DAMN LOT FEWER.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

I know the track records of biological invasive species so being afraid is good. There were West Nile Disease, AIDS, SARS, MERS, H5N1, H1N1, snakeheads, Burmese pythons, zebra clams, Asian emerald ash borers, Asian carps, Asian longhorn beetles, etc. None of which was native and all caused problems. NONE has ever been eradicated!

Maybe we will simply add Ebola to this long list and achieve Status Normal: AF U.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

We've managed to reach numbers in excess of 7 billion grossly over-populating some areas in the process. Of course, I would like a perfect world as much as the next guy. However, we need not fear or obsess over disease. I strongly believe that we should simply take care of ourselves, focus primarily on BASIC healthcare, help those significantly less fortunate, and live our lives.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

You need to keep current of the number better. Missing more than 500 million people is a big mistake. It is like forgetting about a U.S. and a Japan's population.

The problem with the U.S. is that its electorate took angel dust and is hallucinating.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

It was a brain fart and nothing more.

Now how about that 'grim future' you suggest 'may' come?

How about my own prediction which I've been standing firm on for a solid 4 weeks now?

How do you suppose my 'angel dust' is going to stack up against your 'computations'?

Care to make a revision?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

I did not suggest that the grim future will come. I have come to believe in the miraculous power of angel dust, too.

Has it crossed your mind that a number pulled out without any argument, supporting data, scenarios, causal linkages, etc. is nearly worthless? For example, if you say there are 500 people from West Africa who will fly to the U.S. every day and the probability that they carry the Ebola virus is such and such, by banning flights none of them will enter the U.S. so we reduce the probability of a pandemic by such and such. That will become more actionable.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I suppose a few have.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Regarding: http://occupywallst.org/forum/infectious-disease-insurgencies/#comment-1050973

Both angel dust and computations can be surreal with one big difference between them - taking angel dust makes rational mind go away but computations may not. While it is true that computations can lead us astray sometimes as the Great Recession attests (even with the most highly paid people and the best computing power, avarice and complacency rule), computation is still preferable to angel dust. Fear with rational mind in charge is GOOD. Complacency destroys and KILLs.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

I do not like making predictions that are truly inevitable. I can work with surreal scenarios if I or somebody else can affect the causal linkages. It is like me looking at that road sign while driving. I have no intention to mow it down but I may have intention to steer differently based on what it says.

Isn't it how Ebola must do to spread to the U.S.? A few cases at first and if the U.S. medical industry is not up to snuff or pursues profit regardless of consequences, these sparks will catch tinder. Then there will be a conflagration of Ebola. Ebola cannot spread here if the U.S. can tamp them down quickly.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Every time so far, that you and I find common ground or I extend an olive branch, you find some excuse to insult me within 48-72 hours. That reference to 'angel dust' was just one of several. For the sake of probably the last opportunity you and I will have to bury this Ebola hatchet, I hope I'm misinterpreting this latest angle of yours.

Let me get this straight. Even with all of this relentless national hype and fear mongering, your own repeated references to the 'computation' suggesting that Ebola could infect the entire human race by the end of 2015, your dire warnings, including that of this page, and your repeated criticisms of me for making assurances and 'absolute guarantees' that Ebola would kill no more than one out of every 500,000 Americans (and probably a whole lot fewer), you now have the nerve, the GALL, to claim that my prediction, which I've been swearing on with 'absolute certainty' from day one, a prediction that is looking to be more and more accurate with only one Ebola death inside America to date, was 'inevitable' all along based on the probability that 'a few' potential travelers decided ultimately not to fly from West Africa to the US?

Again, I'm hoping to misinterpret this apparent angle of yours. If not, I'm going to dedicate, in a big way, my 'I told you so' page on April 1st of 2015 to you.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

And while everyone is distracted by Ebola Hysteria ( a disease that should be easier to contain and eradicate than AIDS ) - The real Mass killer remains UN-addressed and spreading like a wild fire under high winds.

Sao Paulo Brazil, See The Future World Of Global Warming.

by pollwatcherFollow

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Thanks for discovering an emerging market for angel dust. Sprinkling the dust from angels will sprinkle the land with rain. We need to invite a child with the urge to urinate to do the rain dance to celebrate.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

[-] 1 points by grapes (3298) 2 minutes ago

Dick Chain-y may be the most capable of the longest holding-off-fertile-rain performance until the deluge comes. Dick, you are invited!

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

The Dick Chain-yee? Would be the choice as being the most toxic prick available?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

We can extend the invitation to Tramp and Billionberger if they show up Full-Mc-Donald as requested by trashyharry.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

There are plenty of wanting to urinate on everything children - take your pick - Donald Chump? - J Boner? - Bitch McCON-ALL? - Mittens Romulan? - E Can't-Or? - P Randian? - The DICK Cheney? - Davey &/or Charlie Koch-sucker? - Bitchelle Bachman? - Red Cruz? - R Sanitorium? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

Don't forget Tramp and Billionberg!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Dick Chain-y may be the most capable of the longest holding-off-fertile-rain performance until the deluge comes. Dick, you are invited!

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

The barren wastelands of the world are going to get even more barren. Africa and the Middle East don't need Global Warming. That's for sure.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

The barren wastelands of the world are going to get even more barren.

And it won't happen just by drought either.

Deniers say : OH LOOK IT IS RAINING - OH LOOK IT IS SNOWING - global warming is just a myth.

The fuckers won't look at decades long droughts nor will they look at dwindling water supplies in reservoirs nor will they look at out of season wildfires nor for that matter will they look at the other side of the coin of global warming = more energy put into the system = out of season and out of place torrential floods and mud slides - mega multi-state storms producing hundreds of tornadoes - mega multi-state storms producing power-line dropping ice and UN-heard of quantities of snow etc etc etc - ALL on an increasing pace of frequency.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I know. It is incredibly frustrating to hear and read AGW denials based on such absurd arguments and tiny little samples of data. It's like these people can't distinguish between the 'globe' and their own back yard on any given day. It's mind boggling just how small some of these AGW deniers think.

I had a friend about 5 years ago who didn't even care to follow world events. Still, he was able to put AGW into words that anyone over the age of 4 should be able to understand.

"Global warming isn't just warmer weather it's screwy weather."

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 7 years ago

inner human violence is a threat to mutual cooperation

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

The Plight of the Palestinians is Back to the Future for the 99%.This is how the 99% can expect to be Dealt With by the Worldwide 1%.Nobody anywhere is safe because nobody is sitting on something the 1% does not Covet.The 1% of Israel probably imagined their problem would have been mopped up by now.The Process is well underway for the rest of us.The thing that interests the 1% is workers whose productivity enables them to borrow at interest.Just about all other workers do not interest them,are not needed and will be Hounded to the Ends of the Earth,and to Death.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (2832) from Waterville, NY 4 minutes ago

Don't forget Tramp and Billionberg!

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

The possibilities are numerous ( seem almost endless at times ) as well as horrendous.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Just about all other workers do not interest them,are not needed and will be Hounded to the Ends of the Earth,and to Death.


Until humanity as a whole wakes up and steps forward to end the insanity.

Those of you who do the bidding of these monsters. Know Now Without a Shadow of a Doubt. YOU ARE NOT SAFE EITHER. Your lives - just like the rest of us - mean nothing to them - and you will be gone in an instant at their whim - to hell with your blind loyalties.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

May Providence save us from the Blindness of Tools.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

May the Tools/Fools experience a profound awakening - NOW

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago


[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Every Tool/Fool will have an epiphany = when they themselves get their throat stepped on - because it will eventually be their turn.

I would love it though if the current Tools/Fools would have their epiphany now and understand that the boot is coming for their throat now - rather than them waiting to wake up as they get throttled in their current state of slumber.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

We need EVERYBODY,They are FEW! And Stillmod is Right! They have TOOOOO MUCH!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

[ edit ] CAP Em

No no no - I am not calling for violence ( the wealthy are calling for the pitchforks to come after em themselves ) - CAP Em - as in - this is all that you can have and not one penny more - the rest goes into public support and/or as pay to your employees. CAP Em as in = NO YOU CAN NOT EXPAND FOSSIL FUEL EXTRACTION USE EXPORTS NOTHING. CAP Em - as in - your operations will be clean or they will be shutdown.

edit-> Though all things considered - if someone were to put a 12 gauge load of rock salt into their asses . . . . .

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

Subliminal.I saw it but it still didn't click-LOL! Right! Maximum Income.And it can be set ridiculously high so anybody who argues against it sounds like an idiot.The lowest level of Net Worth required to be considered an Ultra High Net Worth Individual is 30 million.Peanuts-yes.Enough to live in comfort and do business-YES.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

The Millionaires should join Occupy before the Billionaire eat them for breakfast.Of course-they won't.Because they are Greedbag Assholes who want nothing except MOAR!

They hope someday to grow-up to be just like em.

Cartoon: Other dangerous epidemics

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

The .01% are a Hungry Gang of Desperados.Every living thing on the Planet is now endangered by their Narcissistic Personality Disorder and other interlocking Personality Deficits.Antisocial Tendencies not least.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

No trillion dollar hoards allowed. It is working out in the economy - or - it does not exist - well - not beyond a reasonable personal savings account anyway. And those wealthy assholes could benefit by a rock salt cap in the ass - Hey? ;-)

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

These Billionaires are a Damn Menace.The Millionaires should join Occupy before the Billionaire eat them for breakfast.Of course-they won't.Because they are Greedbag Assholes who want nothing except MOAR!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

BTW - I think that allowing a cap of 1,000,000 a year income limit - would be a ridiculously high amount - but that's just me.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

[ edit ] But - also - every single peace and health loving individual should be against every single terrorist and terrorist group in the same way that they should be against Ebola.

edit-> People - keep in mind that terrorist groups can be governments and corp(se)oRATions as well as they can be religious fanatics.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 7 years ago

could be

though we haven't had a highly contagious plague for decades

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

If there is one thing that may very well save us, it is that our emergency rooms are required by law to treat the patients regardless of the ability to pay.

There is little financial incentive for the very sick people not to go to the emergency rooms. That will guarantee a very high rate of needed isolation, probably enough to contain the disease, as long as the number of cases does not grow too fast to overwhelm the healthcare capacity.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

It won't. Period.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Did you read about the Ebola-Reston article above? In the article, Reston virus tested positive for Ebola-Zaire which is the strain raging out-of-control in West Africa right now. As for whether Reston spread airborne or not, you should see for yourself. My judgment was that it did go airborne because there were large number of monkey deaths and the monkeys were housed in separate cages. The chance for a pandemic may be small but it is NOT zero, especially after Nature gives us hundreds of thousands or millions of human incubation vats going concurrently in Africa - all it takes is one unlucky mutation. For nearly four decades, Ebola was geographically confined by its high mortality rates and occurrences in remote areas but it has escaped those restrictions and ravaged CITIES! The Ebola death rate seems to have come down from its early days but the reproduction rate seems to have increased. Increasing reproduction rate makes a pandemic possible.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

There is no guarantee that published data and statistics are accurate. I have my doubts.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

The data and statistics sound like they were gathered and organized by someone leasing in Reston. Although novices at reporting can mess up data and statistics because they are reporting second-hand, the amount of details expressed indicates an earnestness to get them right.

If you do not believe in data and statistics, what do you believe? Myths? Fairy Tales? "I did not inhale"? "that woman"? "improper relationship"? "no weapons of mass destruction"? "due to that derogatory video"? "rich, fertile U.S. will not get Ebola"? "Ebola is not airborne"? "Ebola does not spread by sitting next to someone on a bus"?

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I believe in data and statistics but I also know from human nature, the REAL epidemic of greed, mountains of evidence and some actual confirmations that data and statistics are sometimes falsified or exaggerated for politics or profit (one in the same).

For example, I believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming but I also believe that Al Gore exaggerated it in order to sell his 'carbon credits' and reap MAXIMUM PROFIT.

I have no issue with human error. It happens.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

To err is human but to do worse than last time is unamerican.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

What do you think of the political and economic motivations behind the alleged fudging of data and statistics in the early days of this outbreak? Did they tend to under-report or over-report the numbers of Ebola cases and deaths?

There was a lot of fudging room because there were insufficient diagnostic capabilities and many other deadly diseases there such as malaria. What would politicians and businessmen like the numbers to be? What do you think actually prompted Thomas Frieden of CDC to go to West Africa to see for himself? My take is something like, "I did not inhale. Chan was NOT airborne. I did NOT have improper relationship with THAT woman!" "Oh my gosh! How could anybody have known that Ms. Ebola flies?"

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I'm not sure exactly how and when the decision to spread commercially motivated fear of Ebola unfolded. What I do know for sure, is that it's current level is no accident. Both major political parties and scores of 'for profit' entities are exploiting it with no regard whatsoever for the tolls taken on the innocent (innocent but stupid).

Perhaps you can save me the trouble of doing the research. By any chance is Thomas Frieden a wealthy man? By any chance has he had any 'for profit' affiliation with any drug company that you know of?

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

Dr Freiden must be Sayanim.He served as NYC Publtc Health Commissioner 2002-2009 under Billonberg.He is not currently identified as a Dual Citizen.It is safe to assume he is Sayanim due to his association with Billionberg.As Sayanim,his most important function as a public servant would be to promote the interests of Israel First,by providing information to Israeli Intelligence agencies(of which Mossad is only one) and manipulation and influencing of policy according to their instructions w/o asking questions.He is a member of the 1%,and even if he is not worth more than 2-3 millionusd right now,he would certainly be richly rewarded through contacts within US and Israeli intel sevices.Most American and Israeli MD's own investments in Pharma,Medical Devices and companies involved in medical R&D.

[-] 3 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Like you, I smell a financially motivated rat. So I'll run this by you for an opinion. I just read the following involving possible corruption at the CDC.

1.The CDC is a for-profit corporation listed on Dun and Bradstreet.

2.The CDC promotes vaccines with full awareness that the vaccine manufacturers are immune from all liability should their products cause harm, or even death.

3.The CDC owns a patent on the Ebola virus, which would include patent rights on a vaccine.

As far as you know, is it all true?

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

Any .gov agency you care to look at including CDC is a case of Deep Capture/Total Capture.In such a situation,there is no need to bribe anyone.Those who play ball are simply afforded the opportunity to take advantage of lucrative opportunities in the fullness of Time.There simply is no way every single Jewish person has actually been approached & converted into Sayanim.In truth,there is no way of definitively proving this in individual cases.Association with people like Billionberg is quite indicative,imo.I can't imagine how Israeli Intel Agents would fail to approach any Jewish person who has risen to a position of influence in .gov in any country.I would reckonguesscalculate that those who refuse or resist are punished and end up losing their careers,as happened with Elliot Spitzer.I have heard of all 3 things on the list.No.2 absolutely is true.One thing I have noticed is that many Medical R&D,Medical Device and Equipment companies as well as Biomedical and Regular Drug Pharma companies are located in Israel,are Israeli owned and located Elsewhere,or are controlled by Sayanim on the Boards of Directos and Israeli Shareholders.None of this has to do,imo with an inherent propensity of Jewish people for organized Crime or anything like that.The Jewish 1% simply has been better organized for a longer period of time than other Elite Groups,owing to a variety of cultural and historical circumstances.In no group that I know of is it more important who your parents are.Jewish people who are from an impoverished and/or undistinguished background experience serious repression the same as other people,or even worse as they often are not permitted to marry above their "station." The experience of being groped by Secret Feelers of shadowy persons of your ethnic group exists with other people,too.As an Irish American I must say that at one time,we too had to wonder what we would say or do if the IRA should decide to contact us.So-yes there are Fortunes to be made-ALWAYS-by well placed individuals who play their part.Doors Swing Open for some people but not others courtesy of MI5,CIA and Mossad,et.al.Those who have managed to attain Power,Wealth and Influence on their own have much to lose.Those whose opportunities are limited by Baggage,Mediocrity,Haplessness or Bad Timing in their careers have Oh So Much to Gain.

[-] 3 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Previous outbreaks of Ebola were contained with some help from CDC but the Wall Street crooks crashed the economy. That led to vast revenue shortfalls and austerity measures by the Retardicans. The CDC suffered significant budget cuts and is a shadow of its former self. The Retardican attitude was, "Who cares about these infectious diseases killing Africans thousands of miles away? Nobody. Cut, cut, cut!"

Who put these Retardicans in power? The U.S. populace. I can just see that the U.S. Senate will be stuffed with more of these idiotic Retardicans in the coming election. Then they will block Everything worthwhile so they can win the Presidency in 2016 and stuff the Supreme Court with even more idiots. Remember what Mitch McConnell said about what his number-one priority was? To create a FAILED Obama Presidency! Is that in the U.S. interest?

Well, we are reaping what we sowed. Obama said to McCain, "Elections have consequences." Ebola is real. Ebola will spread. Ebola, like ISIS, will be contained by the very blood it sheds.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

The Catastrophic Bush 43 Presidency has ALREADY disappeared into the Memory Hole.I was startled by the disappearance of something as huge as the Vietnam War into the Memory Hole.It seems to me that it was shoved in by Main Force long before everyone who could remember it clearly was well out of the way.Shocking,really-imo.At this time 2 wars,18 trilloin + usd,Gitmo,NOLA,Lehman Brothers,Bear Stearns,Enron,the US Atty Scandal,the Mortgage Scandal.the Worldwide Collapse of the Financial System,legalization and normalization of torture,dismemberment of the us Constitution,nullification of Habeus Corpus,installation of the Roberts SCOTUS,and other Scandals small,medium and large have all passed smoothly into the Memory Hole.The Bush Clan apparently has decided that the Evil has not been Sufficient Unto the Day.Jeb Bush has apparently been readying himself for a run for the Presidency.The public has been convinced that "Obama is the Worst President of all Time." The Obama Presidency has been more like a residual Bad Dream after a Screaming Nightmare,imo.Bush 43 was a Presidency so disastrous that this country will never recover from it.One hopeful thing is the Millennials detest the Bush Mafia Family with an Intense Passion.Also Jeb Bush is a known Gaffmeister and an arrogant,petulant egghead whose behavior towards the Press is often quite offensive.He is also considered to be a RINO by the Right Wing Ding contingent of The Base.Nevertheless.the Republican Wing of Uniparty will never rest until there is nothing left of this Country but a huge Smoking Crater filled with DB's floating in Flaming,Toxic,Radioactive Sludge.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Retardican. That is good. Damn good. Right up there with Repelican, a Zendog'ism as far as I know. Still, I see the Democrats only as the slightly lesser of two evils. Corruption spreads far and wide.

Perhaps you can save me the trouble of doing the research. By any chance is Thomas Frieden a wealthy man? By any chance has he had any 'for profit' affiliation with any drug company that you know of?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Corruption does not observe party boundaries.

I do not know how much is considered 'wealthy' by you. If he put his wealth into a blind trust to hold public office, we may not be entitled to know or care. Still ownership and affiliation can change from millisecond to millisecond so they do not mean much.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

People who are potentially Liquid to the Tune of 30 million usd are considered Ultra High Net Worth Individuals.Those well below that are,in descending order: Rich,Well Heeled,Comfortable,PTP (paycheck to paycheck),Abused Slaves,and Ownerless Slaves AKA The Scrap Heap of Humanity.There is said to be at least 2 Trillionaire Families,and quite a few Billionaire Families.A Person who is Technically an UHNWI with 30 million would be like a PTP to them,I suppose

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Thomas Frieden is probably comfortable or well-heeled.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

Likely so.He is a reasonably young man with a bright Future short to mid term.I don't feel comfortable with the Long Term for anybody with Climate Change progressing the way I observe it in my own environment,and based on reported progression Elsewhere.Regardless of Who or What the Doctor is,he worked very hard on TB in NYC,including Homeless,Prison and Jail Populations.Awareness was raised through his efforts,and Real People in the Real World were Helped.If the situation was taken advantage of through insider trading and Cronyism,fine-whatever.His efforts made a difference in the lives of people suffering a Cruel Affliction,and infections were stopped,without a Doubt.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Similar to pension funds, blind trusts are controlled and traded by professional managers. The owners of blind trusts should not know about the trades involved. That can remove the conflict of interest between the owner's holding public office with sway and the wealth. CALPERS, for example, owned the shares of the firearms maker whose product was used in murdering teachers in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in Newtown, CT. CALPERS is a pension fund whose owners include teachers. The teachers probably had no intention of their pension fund contributing to the slaughters of teachers.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 7 years ago

There is information passed around and people have their ways of cashing in off of insider info.Not terribly easy to do,but probably easier than digging ditches.Greed and stupidity is how they get caught.Some of the people who have been caught did such a poor job of hiding their activity you gotta wonder if they were impaired by substance abuse.Transports of greed can warp the mind similarly,I guess.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Re: http://occupywallst.org/forum/infectious-disease-insurgencies/#comment-1050989

Trading on inside information is a crime although insiders trading is not and in fact encouraged by some investment houses to make sure that fund managers have their own skins in their funds.

There are special preferences given to important customers on IPOs. The Chinese has a saying, "You can catch BIG fish in murky waters!" That is why the so-called Communists in China hates transparency and I fear for China. After all, if the Brits had ruled Hong Kong for about a century and a half without Hong Kong people clamoring for democracy, why did seventeen years of Chinese dominance of Hong Kong politics lead to multiple mass demonstrations?

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

My judgment was that it did go airborne

Medical anthropologists address Ebola fearmongering

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Regarding: A professor in U.S. is telling Liberians that the Defense Department ‘manufactured’ Ebola

The U.S. Department of Defense does NOT 'manufacture' Ebola. Its mission requires its conducting research into how to defend against many kinds of potential weapons of mass destruction, including the Ebola virus. The goals are vaccines and antidotes, primarily for the service personnel engaged in frontline combat. In the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the personnel were vaccinated to protect them against the potential weapons of mass destruction. (Okay, the U.S. commanding intelligence about Iraq really sucked but the vaccinations showed why the U.S. conducts research into vaccines and antidotes of deadly diseases and how they had actually been used.)

Both Cuba and China are more trusted in West Africa than the U.S. and they are fighting Ebola Virus Disease there, just as U.S. NGOs, CDC, USAID were and the U.S. Defense Department will. Check out their involvements. Also ask the former President Lula of Brazil about whether the U.S. can be trusted to fight Ebola Virus Disease in West Africa.

[-] 2 points by JackHall (413) 8 years ago

Doctors Without Borders has described the Ebola epidemic sweeping across West Africa as “out of control.” The Ebola virus, which is fatal in 90 percent of cases, has killed more than 670 people in West Africa and spread to 60 locations in four countries. The obstacles to bringing the virus under control are formidable, among them a shortage of medical resources and resistance from local communities terrified by a disease they do not understand.

The current outbreak began in Guinea in March. Sierra Leone is now the epicenter of the epidemic. The situation is deteriorating rapidly in Liberia. On Friday, a man died of an Ebola infection in Lagos, Nigeria.

Nurses and doctors are also falling victim to the disease. Two American aid workers have tested positive, and a doctor at Liberia’s largest hospital, the John F. Kennedy Memorial Medical Center in Monrovia, has died of the disease. The virus is amplified by a mobile population, especially across the shared borders between Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia. In the Nigerian case, the infected victim entered on a passenger flight from Liberia. The World Health Organization and the Nigerian government have shut down the hospital where the man died, and other passengers on the flight are being tracked down and tested.

The Ebola Outbreak


[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

The West African region needs to impose no-fly restrictions on anyone running a fever or exhibiting sickness symptoms. SARS, MERS, and West Nile all spread to North America by passengers on jets. Curbing the spread at the sources are the most cost-efficient way to prevent the spreading. The lower the dimensionality of the containment zone, the easier it is to contain the spreading (flying zone is three dimensional; country quarantine zones are two dimensional; funneling traffic onto a single road is one dimensional).

The big challenge this time with Ebola (which has erupted sporadically since 1976) is that it appears in densely populated areas where people are both well connected and mobile. Nigeria has the largest population in Africa. NYC people fit the description of well connected and mobile, too.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

The profound differences being that clean water is abundant in NYC and the sanitation practices are modern enough to compensate for the population density. These two factors alone change everything.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Yes, but remember that it is our forebears who had the Will to undertake a major infrastructure project that blessed us in NYC with abundant clean water. Without this PUBLIC works engineering feat, NYC would have stayed a disease-ridden hell hole.

Ancient Rome offered an example, too. Rome could not have become the capital of the Empire if it did not solve its clean-water problem. Romans invented indoor plumbings, aqueducts, and base-centrally-heated Roman baths. They were engineers who attended to mundane creature comforts.

My ancestor beheld the "Greatness of America" in its PUBLIC toilet's Running Hot Water! It must have been an epiphany.


[-] 2 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

Don't go to Brooklyn Hospital. Most of the staff there do not sanitize, wash, or glove, especially the Caribbeans. I've argued with nurses who say they showered yesterday, that means they're 'clean', and you don't wash your hands unless you're dirty!! Use the restroom at the same time and you'll see what I mean. They're so busy socializing and picking up coworkers they don't do the basics. As a former 'bubble' candidate my susceptibility makes 'small' things like that of great hazard to me personally. Paramedics are inexplicably cleaner, and always wash! They're handling the same people, in contact with the same germs, they just are more cautious and don't think they're so holy they are exempt from the rules of nature and physics. All attending medics are to wash between every patient or wear the gdamn gloves, and change them in between each contact. But they don't. Any patient is within their rights to ask a doctor or nurse if they washed after the last patient. Caveat emptor, buyer beware. We or our insurance are paying to be made sick!!

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

I have just thought of the Hindu "handshake" which can be great for greeting people without passing germs through contact. Putting your two hands together right in front of your chest as if you are praying and a little nod of your head show a welcome and respect with no contact. If the Westerners do not change their handshaking custom fast, maybe the Hindus will inherit the world.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Bullshit. Our bodies need regular exposure to the more common germs and regional bacterias, many of which are spread by human contact. Without regular exposure, immune systems can not develop properly. This is why children raised in hyper-clean or isolated environments tend to have weaker immune systems.

It's also one of the three primary factors contributing to my one-in-a-million freak-of-nature good health. I shower daily using ordinary soap but I never use anti-bacterial anything. I clean virtually every surface in my house with plain water.

The other two factors are that I take no meds of any kind and I have my workout routine down to a science.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

There is some truth to what you wrote but there are virulent germs, too, such as Ebola. I bet you do NOT want to be immunized against it in the natural way - by catching it. For virulent germs, vaccines are needed. Good sanitary practices are also advisable as are people being well-nourished and healthy. I believe in BOTH ancient and modern medicines. I believe that India's huge population testifies to its cumulative abilities of warding off diseases for millennia as is true for China. Their ancient practices may be lacking scientific proofs but they deserve to be examined under the light of science. For example, acupuncture was such a practice that western science derided but eventually discovered the basis of - endorphins.

India also has a very rigid caste system. There were many conquests of India by foreigners. I believe that the caste system was instituted because of the conquests as well as due to major disease outbreaks. It was probably an ignorant and misguided but still correct empirical cultural legacy of ancient disease prevention. "Namaste" no-contact greeting may be similar.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

I have no desire to catch Ebola and I have absolutely no fear whatsoever that I ever will. I'm more likely to get blown up by a water heater. But if I ever did, I would certainly be one of the double digit percentage to recover.

Believe me when I tell you that my immune system is out of this world. I use no pills, powders, supplements, creams, topical or internal treatments of any kind. If I get cut on a rusty nail, a dirty pipe, or a jag of concrete, (it happens in my line of work), I just give it a quick rinse, throw on a band-aid and forget about it. The same goes for burns, bee stings, scrapes, ect. They never get infected and heal quickly every single time. I don't even get the flu. This is no accident and it's no coincidence.

I do have a question for you. What in your opinion prevented the black plague from wiping out the human race?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Diversity but mainly Felis Domestica - the house cats eating mice and rats. Look at ancient Egyptian cosmetic practices. They have painted black stripes around their eyes looking just like cats. The sphinx is a cat. The cats guarded the grain stores of ancient Egyptians and enabled the Gift of the Nile to feed a great population.

Europeans believed wrongly that cats were evil and suffered the consequences. "Americans" may be doing the same thing with our complacencies and misguided beliefs. History seems fractal because there are simple natural laws.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 7 years ago

Personally I like cats. My sidekick Albert is a trip.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

There are ancient myths surrounding cats but I think they hold some grains of truth. For example, if you store food, cats will guard them so cats bring prosperity, at least warding off famine or the plague.

I do not feel bad about meeting a feral cat in NYC because I saw many mice and rats. It was simply safeguarding our neighborhoods. Cats kill mice. Mice eat food. People have cats. People eat food and stroke the warm soft fur of their cats. Cats purr. People and cats are content. Few mice and plagues. These are simple natural laws.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Cats are hell on bird populations too.

Cats fighting the good fight against the plague and bird flu too.

Who knew?

I'm gonna go and get me a dozen of em - I will be forever safe from disease.


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Cats indirectly built the only remaining still-standing wonder of the ancient world - the Great Pyramids. Cats indirectly provided political stability by controlling the rodents, the infectious diseases, and keeping grains not eaten by rodents but saving them for people. Well-fed people were content and could work to build pyramids over long periods of time.

It is fitting that the sphinx statute guarding the pyramids was of a cat. There were cat-headed deities, and cat-faced facial cosmetic practices in ancient Egypt. Pussy power forever - Meow, Meow, Meow!

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

One of the longest running shows on Broadway?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Yes, then there was also the dark, scary, and sexy movie "Cat People," too. The "birds harboring flu" and "fruitbats harboring Ebola" will be kept in check.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

That's a good theory but what prevented the Black Plague from wiping out Europe?

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Ultimately quarantine but that has already been proven unworkable in Liberia. We are flying Ebola non-stop, latest known flight being from Cleveland, Ohio to Dallas, Texas.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 7 years ago

Gee what a shock.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Shock kills. Ebola virus disease often induces shock.


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

We ARE already in the New Globalized Age! Our only hope is walls for germs but no walls for sympathy, compassion, and respect.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Could it be that the nurses are farther removed from the paramedics on the frontline of fighting diseases so they feel safer and more relaxed? In EU's responses to Russia's being on the prowl, the ones farthest from Russia such as France and the Netherlands were the most nonchalant about meeting the threat but the ones which could feel the hot moist breaths of the polar bear were more agitated.

Behaviors of the nurses will probably improve after a major outbreak of infectious disease at Brooklyn Hospital which shows that they are really right on the frontline. All patients should insist on their healthcare providers follow hygienic procedures meticulously between consecutive patients. Sometimes, your and others' lives are at stake.

[-] 1 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

They're handling the same people. Incoming patients transported via ambulance are not bathed or disinfected before arrival. Nurses are not really removed from the contact with bacteria. Perceptual.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Yes, indeed, perception IS reality until reality pokes through to change perception.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

If Ebola is classified as a BSL-4 pathogen, how can every hospital with an emergency room in the U.S. be upgraded to handle BSL-4? The Dallas Thomas Eric Duncan case was not handled according to Ebola-Zaire's handling requirements. Are we not woefully unprepared by not adhering to requirements?

Here is an account about the Reston hot zone incident. Let everyone judge for themselves whether the disease went airborne or not.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

NASA astronaut had visor-fogged-up problem. Ebola health care workers' goggles have the same fogging-up problem. Let NASA tell the health care workers its solution for the problem. Also underwater divers smear spit into their masks to prevent them from fogging up so some surfactant solution like detergent in de-ionized water plus glycerol to retain moisture may suffice to prevent fogging.

Seeing better allows working better and safer.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 8 years ago

ZMapp uses an approach called passive immunotherapy. Instead of having a vaccine stimulate the immune system to make antibodies that attack the virus, passive immunotherapy simply supplies the antibodies to the patients. For some infectious diseases, these antibodies are extracted from the blood of patients who have survived the infection and presumably have effective antibodies.

ZMapp instead consists of antibodies that are made by exposing mice to a key Ebola protein and harvesting their antibodies. Those antibodies are then genetically modified to make them more like human antibodies and therefore less likely to provoke an immune reaction if injected into people.

Ebola Therapy From an Obscure Biotech Firm Is Hurried Along

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Here is another U.S.-government funded potential Ebola treatment: FDA relaxed clinical hold on Canadian (Vancouver) company Tekmira with a candidate Ebola treatment.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

The Ebola crisis afflicting repatriated U.S. citizens (Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol) put pressure on the U.S. to come up with the best-hope treatment it has. It is definitely a step in the correct direction towards a treatment but it may well be too little and too late for the current outbreak of Ebola in West Africa.

The best-hope ZMapp treatment has not even completed Phase I of the three-phase trials required by the FDA. Phase I assesses in closely monitored medical environment the toxicity of the treatment in a number of healthy human individuals. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol were very sick individuals, definitely not healthy, and their number being two is too low to assess toxicity for larger diverse human population. Their participations in the best-hope ZMapp treatment were a desperate measure of last resort. ZMapp, even if it were to have passed all three-phase trials of the FDA would still have great difficulty of scaling up production quickly. Imagine watching the tobacco plants grow to produce the monoclonal antibodies. This reminds me of the saying, "watching the grass grow." It is not comforting if life depends on it. Compare the growth rate of the number of infected individuals still alive with the rate of growth and number of the tobacco plants after inoculating them after several weeks. The current Ebola crisis is unlikely to be stopped by these tobacco plants. Fast identification, early supportive therapy, contact tracing, isolation, and quarantines are probably the methods that may be successful.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Wearing protective goggles/glasses and facial masks may help protect against airborne Ebola droplets of moisture because seeing and breathing can expose the mucous membranes in the eyes and airways.

Dr Gary Kobinger: we saw a lot of evidence in the lungs of the non-human primates that the virus got in that way.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Should we treat our farms and hospitals as bioweapon factories?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Might not be a bad cautionary action to consider - hazmat suits and self contained air supply when visiting either.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 8 years ago

Survivaball !

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

We all have a bit of Venetian nobility at heart, don't we? Get Beethoven's Ninth and get it on. I am going Hindu with my hands (namaskar), though, to form a good habit while I am still sober.

It intrigues me whether the Hindus developed their greeting due to the existence of the "Untouchable" caste amongst them or they had actually lived through pandemics before and got wiser.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 8 years ago

Looking at Venice on Google Maps is an addicting pastime.About the great Venetian mercantile empire,I know very little.It was my understanding that the great fortunes of the Venetian Elites were destroyed by profligate heirs who were devoted to gambling.I can't relate to such people,unless they suffered from clinical depression,which is quite possible.On the subject of Mudra,not much is known because the practice is so ancient.Your supposition that it may have developed due to something in the environment is an intelligent conjecture,IMHO.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Why 'Namaskar' and not a 'hand shake'?

The "black rays emitted from the hand of a person having distress of negative energy" almost seem a picture of really bad germs and infection directions. It might have been a pre-germ spiritual theory that has modern germ theory support. It is remarkable!

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 8 years ago

Agreed.The Ayurvedic Tradition is an intriguing window into seemingly endless possibility.More proof that another world is possible.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Absolutely, we must, however, remember to put the tradition through the strict filter of the scientific method of large-scale (long-term if necessary) randomized double-blind controlled studies before widespread adoption unless they can already be well understood by established scientific knowledge.

Traditional knowledge can provide good hypotheses but they can also be garbage. Rigorous scientific proof is still needed.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 8 years ago

"Food for thought,grounds for further investigation."

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Yes, we need to understand that the vocabularies of traditions often require interpretation in modern context because the ancient ones often have much empirical knowledge but they tend not to have discovered our integrated body of knowledge spanning multiple disciplines. They may have foresight but we have hindsight and with effort and humility, allsight.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 8 years ago


[-] -1 points by shortNbaldNfatBUTSexy (-79) from New York, NY 8 years ago


You bid, I bot.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 8 years ago

I'm sorry.I don't understand your response.Is that a joke,or some kind of a suggestion that you.or I,or someone else is a simulated user AKA 'bot?" If you think I am a "bot," or someone else is,why not just say so? If your response is a whimsical joke,I must say that I think you can do better than a mere 4 words.Are ye a wordsmith? Where be thy curlicues?

[-] 0 points by shortNbaldNfatBUTSexy (-79) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Just a simple joke. No meaning.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 8 years ago

lacked content

the number that died of ebola is slightly less than the number that died in the gaza bombing

should we be scared ?

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Can we have rapid disinfecting of air instead of the often bulky self contained air supply?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

As far as hospitals go - it is possible to set-up disinfecting stations at every entry exit intersection between wards or hallways or patient room and hallway or entry exit between the building and the outside world itself. One such is no more than high power black lights to shine from above below and from each side - people walk through the light field and bugs are killed while passing through.

And I don't see why that could not also be done for entering and exiting animal housing - like milking stations or hen houses or

So take it further and they could be set up at every point of exit and entry into and out of a country or state = train stations or air-ports etc

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

We should probably have sinks, hot water, and paper towels at every entry/exit of the farm or hospital. A chemical bath with showered disinfectant can work, too. Black light may take a while to work and besides, there may be unexposed areas.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Thing about disinfectants - with regular use they can lower the bodies natural immune system and like overuse of antibiotics - germs can become resistant = mersa.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

If everyone has their own hazmat suit, they can avoid having the disinfectants affecting their immune system. With the black light, we may design the hazmat suit to fluoresce so we can see which area is unexposed.

It is not just MRSA we need to worry about. There are also multi-drug-resistant TB, avian flu, SARS, polio, foot-and-mouth disease, etc.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

That is why finding alternatives to drugs and disinfectants where ever possible would be a good thing - and certain wave lengths of light seem to be able to kill germs without the germs adapting.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

The only problem is that in many ways our own cells are just like germs so the same wavelength light may kill them or turn them cancerous.

The classic disinfecting instrument in a clinic is an autoclave that kills by heat. Perhaps a hot-water-disinfected hazmat suit can work.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

For workers that might be practical - but light would still be more effective than hot water - some germs "can" survive some really hot water - even the ones that can't need the water to be at least 200 degrees F to kill em.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Very true indeed. The "temperature" of some wavelength light can be far "hotter" than boiling water.